There was a piece on the sales of 'analogue' TV sets on R4's Today this
morning - seems they are still exceeding those of FreeView ones. The
comment seemed to suggest it was down to ignorance. No one mentioned that
one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well always far cheaper than a
Freeview set...

-- 
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

...
> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well 
> always far cheaper than a Freeview set...

...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert TV 
manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing power/memory/other> for.

Paul DS

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 12:42:31 +0100, "Paul D.Smith"
 wrote:

>...
>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well 
>> always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>
>...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert TV 
>manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing power/memory/other> for.
>
>Paul DS
> 
I don't think I would buy a digital TV, for the reasons given.  In
fact, I would prefer to buy a monitor and let the decoder box do the
work.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fb56c1625dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> There was a piece on the sales of 'analogue' TV sets on R4's Today this
> morning - seems they are still exceeding those of FreeView ones. The
> comment seemed to suggest it was down to ignorance. No one mentioned that
> one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well always far cheaper than a
> Freeview set...
>
> -- 
> *Do they ever shut up on your planet?
>
>    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Well indeed, all you really want is a monitor with lots of connectivity.

I would still want a analogue tuner in a small set so I can pipe TV around 
the house.

"Paul D.Smith"  wrote in message 
news:1214480555.12033.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> ...
>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well 
>> always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>
> ...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert TV 
> manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing power/memory/other> for.
>

No , it's exactly the same level of difficulty - plug in new STB.
It makes no odds whether the TV has a built in digital tuner or not

-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

In message g407ob$d73$1@registered.motzarella.org,
Dr Zoidberg <AlexNOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> Proclaimed from the tallest 
tower:

> "Paul D.Smith"  wrote in message
> news:1214480555.12033.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>> ...
>>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty
>>> well always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>>
>> ...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert
>> TV manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing
>> power/memory/other> for.
>
> No , it's exactly the same level of difficulty - plug in new STB.
> It makes no odds whether the TV has a built in digital tuner or not

So why pay more for a TV with a digital tuner built in in the first 
place...?

-- 
Regards,
Chris.
(Remove Elvis's shoes to email me)

"Paul D.Smith"  wrote in message 
news:1214480555.12033.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
> ...
>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well 
>> always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>
> ...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert TV 
> manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing power/memory/other> for.

The PVR is quickly becoming the de facto recording device.
The integrated TV tuner would only be needed when the PVR
was recording 2 programmes.

-- 
Graham

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
> The PVR is quickly becoming the de facto recording device.
> The integrated TV tuner would only be needed when the PVR
> was recording 2 programmes.

Are there figures for sales? I'm sure you're right that in these here
parts, a twin-tuner PVR is common as muck, but there are a lot of
single-tuner PVRs on the shed shelves, and I have the impression that
many people see the natural thing to couple with their ginormous
plasma as being a DVD recorder.

André Coutanche

"ChrisM"  wrote in message 
news:NNSdnVjRZL4hOf7VnZ2dnUVZ8uKdnZ2d@bt.com...
> In message g407ob$d73$1@registered.motzarella.org,
> Dr Zoidberg <AlexNOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> Proclaimed from the 
> tallest tower:
>
>> "Paul D.Smith"  wrote in message
>> news:1214480555.12033.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>>> ...
>>>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty
>>>> well always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>>>
>>> ...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert
>>> TV manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing
>>> power/memory/other> for.
>>
>> No , it's exactly the same level of difficulty - plug in new STB.
>> It makes no odds whether the TV has a built in digital tuner or not
>
> So why pay more for a TV with a digital tuner built in in the first 
> place...?
>

Because the TV I wanted had a digital tuner anyway.
There wasn't an identical analog-only model available

-- 
Alex

"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"

www.drzoidberg.co.uk

"Dr Zoidberg" <AlexNOOO!!!!!!!!@drzoidberg.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:g407ob$d73$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> "Paul D.Smith"  wrote in message 
> news:1214480555.12033.0@proxy02.news.clara.net...
>> ...
>>> No one mentioned that > one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well 
>>> always far cheaper than a Freeview set...
>>
>> ...and far easier to upgrade when a new feature arrives that <insert TV 
>> manufacturer> hasn't allowed enough <processing power/memory/other> for.
>>
>
> No , it's exactly the same level of difficulty - plug in new STB.
> It makes no odds whether the TV has a built in digital tuner or not

I assumed that he meant it's far easier to upgrade by throwing away (and 
replacing) a 20 quid STB than a 200 quid TV.

But he hasn't come back to say that for himself so perhaps It's only me that 
thinks this.

tim

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fb56c1625dave@davenoise.co.uk...
> There was a piece on the sales of 'analogue' TV sets on R4's Today this
> morning - seems they are still exceeding those of FreeView ones. The
> comment seemed to suggest it was down to ignorance. No one mentioned that
> one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well always far cheaper than a
> Freeview set...
>
> -- 
> *Do they ever shut up on your planet?
>
>    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO dates, 
they should have announced a cut-off date when selling analogue-only TV 
equipment would be outlawed. But as usual, the DSO is a half-baked idea with 
the only driving force is the sell-off of the spectrum.

On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:

> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
> dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
> analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed. 

You're assuming that

a) It would be allowed under EU legislation

b) That's what people want

Require retailers to inform customers by all means ...

In message <asCdndzVRMgPCvnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@plusnet>, Andy Burns 
 writes
>On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:
>
>> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
>>dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
>>analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed.
>
>You're assuming that
>
>a) It would be allowed under EU legislation
>
>b) That's what people want
>
>Require retailers to inform customers by all means ...

I can think of several situations where the customer has no need of a TV 
set which can receive digital signals. It seems heavy-handed to have 
legislation which will prevent the sale of analogue-only sets. If there 
is no demand for analogue-only, these sets will cease to be 
manufactured. All we need is for the law that that all analogue-only 
sets should be marked as such, that digital-only sets should be marked 
as such, and that analogue/digital sets should be marked as such.
-- 
Ian

"Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
news:asCdndzVRMgPCvnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@plusnet...
> On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:
>
>> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
>> dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
>> analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed.
>
> You're assuming that
> b) That's what people want

No, that isn't a factor. What people want is of no consequence in this sort 
of matter.

Bill

On 27/06/2008 15:14, Bill Wright wrote:

> "Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
> news:asCdndzVRMgPCvnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@plusnet...
>> On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:
>>
>>> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
>>> dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
>>> analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed.
>> You're assuming that
>> b) That's what people want
> 
> No, that isn't a factor. What people want is of no consequence in this sort 
> of matter.

So the government should ban sale of (harmless) things regardless of 
whether people want to buy them or not?

"Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
news:ItadnY1OFfteZ_nVnZ2dnUVZ8hednZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>> No, that isn't a factor. What people want is of no consequence in this 
>> sort of matter.
>
> So the government should ban sale of (harmless) things regardless of 
> whether people want to buy them or not?

Certainly not.

You miss my point, which was that the popular will is routinely ignored by 
govenment, both national and local. There are so many examples . . .

Rotherham Council have instigated a one way system in the village of Bramley 
which is universally unpopular. They go through processes of 'consultation' 
but ignore the result. The row has been going on for years.

We aren't going to have a referendum on the Lisbon Treat in the UK.

The Irish are going to have another referendum, in the hope that they get 
the right answer this time.

Manchester is to have road pricing, despite a local election in which the 
chief proponent was slung out in favour of the chief opposer of the scheme.

Dustbins are collected once a fortnight rather than weekly, despite 
overwhelming public opposition.

80% of the UK public are in favour of the death penalty for terrorists and 
cop killers, but this is ignored.

Goodness knows what the public thinks of the ECC at the moment. I can guess 
though!

Now don't go jumping to the conclusion that I'm making political points with 
the above. In particular, I would not support the death penalty under any 
circumstances.

Bill

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:36:00 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)  
 wrote:

>  There was a piece on the sales of 'analogue' TV sets on R4's Today this
> morning - seems they are still exceeding those of FreeView ones. The
> comment seemed to suggest it was down to ignorance. No one mentioned that
> one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well always far cheaper than a
> Freeview set...
>

Has anyone considered that here in the Weald of Kent some of the DTT  
channels are extremely flakey even with the best CAT aerials (don't even  
think about reliable BBC1 and BBC2) and that DSO in 2012 means that buying  
new analogue TV's will be the norm for 3 1/2 years.

Just a light shower or a little channel fog rolling in between here in  
Biddenden and Dover will negate the weaker channels and cause intermittent  
pixellation and audio loss.

>Now don't go jumping to the conclusion that I'm making political points with 
>the above. In particular, I would not support the death penalty under any 
>circumstances.
>

Me neither. 

Too stressful for the poor sod doing the job and for people like Brady
and Huntley, far better to stew 'em for the lives they've taken away....

-- 
Tony Sayer

"Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
news:asCdndzVRMgPCvnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@plusnet...
> On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:
>
>> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
>> dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
>> analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed.
>
> You're assuming that
>
> a) It would be allowed under EU legislation
>
   Presumably as Germany and France have done so it is OK

In article <g461sa$4ac$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk>,
   buddenbrooks  wrote:

> "Andy Burns"  wrote in message 
> news:asCdndzVRMgPCvnVnZ2dneKdnZzinZ2d@plusnet...
> > On 27/06/2008 08:10, The-Sbray wrote:
> >
> >> What the Government should have done is when they announced the DSO 
> >> dates, they should have announced a cut-off date when selling 
> >> analogue-only TV equipment would be outlawed.
> >
> > You're assuming that
> >
> > a) It would be allowed under EU legislation
> >
>    Presumably as Germany and France have done so it is OK 

but they only obey EU legislation when it suits them ;-)

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"Ian Jackson"  wrote in message 
news:PM9XwTIFUKZIFwyC@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...

 > I can think of several situations where the customer has no need of a TV
> set which can receive digital signals. It seems heavy-handed to have 
> legislation which will prevent the sale of analogue-only sets.

 Banning a analoge only TVs may be unnessesary.

Banning the sale of boxes described as TVs which cannot recieve public 
broadcasts is nessesary.
Shortly a analogue only TV will not be a TV but a monitor with a special 
input and should be sold as such.

However since Digital TVs are capable of receiving Analogue I cannot see why 
a typical 'Currys Customer' should want an analogue only unit.

The worls is going digital, we are in danger of becoming the dumping ground 
for manufactured units that no other country wants.

On 28/06/2008 20:02, buddenbrooks wrote:

> "Andy Burns"  wrote 
> 
>> a) It would be allowed under EU legislation
>>
>    Presumably as Germany and France have done so it is OK 

They just do as they want.

I pointed the French action out to the DCM&S as being at odds with their 
own Select Committee statement that ...

     "National governments are not
      free individually to mandate digital TV sets,
      since the market for TV receivers is a European one"

and asked whether they had a view on whether it was a
contravention of the principle of free circulation of goods within the 
EC. When they eventually replied, they said I would need to refer it 
directly to the EC, I didn't bother.

In article <g462qs$apb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, buddenbrooks
 wrote:

[Snip]

> However since Digital TVs are capable of receiving Analogue 

not all are


> The worls is going digital, we are in danger of becoming the dumping
> ground for manufactured units that no other country wants.

No, because in analogue terms, sets made for other countries* don't work in
the UK

*except Ireland

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

"buddenbrooks"  wrote in message 
news:g462qs$apb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...

>
> The worls is going digital, we are in danger of becoming the dumping 
> ground for manufactured units that no other country wants.
>
I'm using analogue TV sets I see no problem with that.   Each has its 
digital box attached to get Freeview, 3 even have in addition a Sky box as 
well.
I'm happy with seperate boxes, I can upgrade the boxes as digital changes.
People who wish to use Sky, Freesat, cable or Broadband will be quite happy 
to use any TV set.
What you wanting all TV sets to have Freeview, Freesat, Sky and Broadband 
built in?

-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

On Fri, 27 Jun 2008 23:29:15 +0100, madge 
wrote:

>On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 10:36:00 +0100, Dave Plowman (News)  
> wrote:
>
>>  There was a piece on the sales of 'analogue' TV sets on R4's Today this
>> morning - seems they are still exceeding those of FreeView ones. The
>> comment seemed to suggest it was down to ignorance. No one mentioned that
>> one of those plus a Freeview box is pretty well always far cheaper than a
>> Freeview set...
>>
>
>Has anyone considered that here in the Weald of Kent some of the DTT  
>channels are extremely flakey even with the best CAT aerials (don't even  
>think about reliable BBC1 and BBC2) and that DSO in 2012 means that buying  
>new analogue TV's will be the norm for 3 1/2 years.
>
>Just a light shower or a little channel fog rolling in between here in  
>Biddenden and Dover will negate the weaker channels and cause intermittent  
>pixellation and audio loss.

I like Biddenden cider :-)

Marky P.

"Marky P"  wrote in message 
news:q97d649r3v8hel06f8vi5dvtceqichdgap@4ax.com...
>
> I like Biddenden cider :-)
>
> Marky P.

Have you tried sitting on your hand until it goes numb, and then using that 
hand to raise the glass to your lips? It's just like having a very 
inexperienced person toss you off.

Bill

PS Anyone puzzled by this: see other strands.

"charles"  wrote in message 
news:4fb6a9ee3acharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> In article <g462qs$apb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, buddenbrooks
>  wrote:
>
 > No, because in analogue terms, sets made for other countries* don't work 
in
> the UK
>

  All the ones I have seen have a menu allowing selection of each standard 
available in Europe. A small selection but it makes sense from a 
manufacturer's viewpoint to make units that function whereever and localise 
in software

In article ,
Bill Wright  wrote:

>Goodness knows what the public thinks of the ECC at the moment. I can guess 
>though!                                      ^^^

No need to guess. If their opinions were wrong, they could at be detected 
and corrected :)

-- 
--------------------------------------+------------------------------------
Mike Brown: mjb[at]pootle.demon.co.uk | http://www.pootle.demon.co.uk/

"David"  wrote in message 
news:8mw9k.101067$P83.79719@newsfe20.ams2...
>
>
> "buddenbrooks"  wrote in message 
> news:g462qs$apb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
>
>>
 >>
> I'm using analogue TV sets I see no problem with that.   Each has its 
> digital box attached to get Freeview, 3 even have in addition a Sky box as 
> well.

I went into Dixons and asked for a Television so I could watch Parorama.
When I got home I found it was an empty box. I complained to Dixons and was 
told I had to supply my own monitor and digibox

The bottom line is most people want a tidy unit that looks good, is reliable 
and does not require a rats nest of cables and half a dozen remotes to 
loose. The majority of people buy things that do a specific job, so when a 
typical person asks for a Television he means something that in itself 
receives television.

Each of the situation you describe could be handled by either a multi-tuner 
unit or a monitor. None need an analogue TV.
Digital TVs have additional inputs to allow external adaptors.

I get very annoyed that each time I go into a TV retailer and specifically 
say I want a Terrestrial Digital TV I get shown analogue TVs.





> What you wanting all TV sets to have Freeview, Freesat, Sky and Broadband 
> built in?
>
 No, just not being sold a TV which at best will be a monitor in a couple of 
years.

"buddenbrooks"  wrote in message news:g485es$t38$1

>
> I get very annoyed that each time I go into a TV retailer and specifically 
> say I want a Terrestrial Digital TV I get shown analogue TVs.
>

Think it might be you in the way you ask, next time say you want a Freeview 
TV set, they will then know I hope, you want one with a "tick" on.


-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

"buddenbrooks"  wrote in message 
news:g484mi$1mu$1$830fa17d@news.demon.co.uk...
>
> "charles"  wrote in message 
> news:4fb6a9ee3acharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
>> In article <g462qs$apb$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>, buddenbrooks
>>  wrote:
>>
> > No, because in analogue terms, sets made for other countries* don't work
> in
>> the UK
>>
>
>  All the ones I have seen have a menu allowing selection of each standard 
> available in Europe.

That's why I had to drive to Scotland on one occasion. The sales staff had 
autotuned some Thompsons that had French settings as the default, and then 
concluded that the aerial system was faulty.

Bill

Mike wrote:
>> Goodness knows what the public thinks of the ECC at the moment. I can guess 
>> though!                                      ^^^
> 
> No need to guess. If their opinions were wrong, they could at be detected 
> and corrected :)
> 

With a certain amount of Hamming around... :-)

-- 
Adrian C

On 28 Jun., 21:18, "buddenbrooks"  wrote:
>
> However since Digital TVs are capable of receiving Analogue I cannot see why
> a typical 'Currys Customer' should want an analogue only unit.
>
> The worls is going digital, we are in danger of becoming the dumping ground
> for manufactured units that no other country wants.
>
There are a lot of very good reasons to
save the money on a DVB-T tuner now , unless
you can and want to receive DTT just NOW..
-
Late 2009 /2010 the new DVB-T2 standard will be
on the market and your saved money can buy you
the much better STB then.
If you need a DTT receiver until DVB-T2 is on the market
get a £20 box.

Lars  :-)