I'm an idiot!

I should have checked before I bought a sony av amp to do the HDMI 
switching. I have 3 HDMI inputs, SAT, DVD and BD only to discover that the 
Sky HD box does not output DD 5.1 via HDMI. DD 5.1 is only output via 
optical which doesn't match any of the video inputs!! So I can have Sky HD 
with PCM 48 sound and picture or Sky HD with DD 5.1 (Video2) and no picture. 
Unfortunately my TV only has one HDMI input.

It may save somebody else buying a modern amp which no longer matches the 
now 'out of date' Sky HD box. As the current Sky HD box has been around for 
a some time and HDMI standards have evolved, can I make an appeal that the 
next release has DD 5.1 via HDMI.

"remblancecouk"  wrote in message 
news:UeWdnYY_8L9U5d3VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> I'm an idiot!
>
> I should have checked before I bought a sony av amp to do the HDMI 
> switching. I have 3 HDMI inputs, SAT, DVD and BD only to discover that the 
> Sky HD box does not output DD 5.1 via HDMI. DD 5.1 is only output via 
> optical which doesn't match any of the video inputs!! So I can have Sky HD 
> with PCM 48 sound and picture or Sky HD with DD 5.1 (Video2) and no 
> picture. Unfortunately my TV only has one HDMI input.
>
> It may save somebody else buying a modern amp which no longer matches the 
> now 'out of date' Sky HD box. As the current Sky HD box has been around 
> for a some time and HDMI standards have evolved, can I make an appeal that 
> the next release has DD 5.1 via HDMI.

HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via an 
AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP 
enabled amp. The ONLY way you are allowed to listen to it is via an ANALOGUE 
5.1 output on your STB, DVD player, or Blu-Ray player, assuming you have a 
spare 5.1/7.1 input on your AV amp, and don't expect to be able to use your 
7.1 speaker system unless your box or player has 7.1 up-scaling built in. If 
you do not have a 5.1/7.1 analogue input the only option open to you is a 
downsampled 48kHz 16bit version.

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via an 
>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP 
>enabled amp.

HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
another.  I'd guess that you actually do have something in mind about
some problem with the implementation of this, so is there any chance that
you can switch yourself out of ranting bollocks mode and actually state
what that is?

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via an
>>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP
>>enabled amp.
>
> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to

No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
instruction manual.

> another.  I'd guess that you actually do have something in mind about
> some problem with the implementation of this, so is there any chance that
> you can switch yourself out of ranting bollocks mode and actually state
> what that is?

I already posted about this over a year ago. Copyrighted audio over HDMI 
(even with an HDCP enabled amp) is limited to 16bits at 48kHz.

>
> -- 
> Dave Farrance

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message 
news:kvadnYotUd0AmtzVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
> news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via 
>>>an
>>>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP
>>>enabled amp.
>>
>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>
> No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
> instruction manual.
>
>> another.  I'd guess that you actually do have something in mind about
>> some problem with the implementation of this, so is there any chance that
>> you can switch yourself out of ranting bollocks mode and actually state
>> what that is?
>
> I already posted about this over a year ago. Copyrighted audio over HDMI 
> (even with an HDCP enabled amp) is limited to 16bits at 48kHz.

How many channels?  (this is CD quality by the way).

>
>>
>> -- 
>> Dave Farrance
>

How does one lash up an AV amp and a screen to say a Blu Ray player?  HDMI 
to the screen and optical / coax to the amp, or will you have to take analog 
from the player to the amp?

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
>news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via an
>>>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP
>>>enabled amp.
>>
>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>
>No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
>instruction manual.

Nonsense.  The HDMI and HDCP pages on Wikipedia say that HDMI can handle
multi channel audio and that HDCP is intended to limit audio on *non*
HDCP outputs.  My instruction manual?  So we *are* talking implementation
issues, then.  So what are they?

-- 
Dave Farrance

Dave Farrance wrote:
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
> 
>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
>> news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via an
>>>> AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an HDCP
>>>> enabled amp.
>>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>> No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
>> instruction manual.
> 
> Nonsense.  The HDMI and HDCP pages on Wikipedia say that HDMI can handle
> multi channel audio and that HDCP is intended to limit audio on *non*
> HDCP outputs.  My instruction manual?  So we *are* talking implementation
> issues, then.  So what are they?
> 
I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 D80e 
projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 7.1. The 
PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 surround sound and 
played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the bluray.

Regards
	Glenn...

"R. Mark Clayton"  wrote in message 
news:AOadnf0_oNvMHdzVRVnyuQA@bt.com...
>
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote in message 
> news:kvadnYotUd0AmtzVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>>
>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in 
>> message news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via 
>>>>an
>>>>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an 
>>>>HDCP
>>>>enabled amp.
>>>
>>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>>
>> No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
>> instruction manual.
>>
>>> another.  I'd guess that you actually do have something in mind about
>>> some problem with the implementation of this, so is there any chance 
>>> that
>>> you can switch yourself out of ranting bollocks mode and actually state
>>> what that is?
>>
>> I already posted about this over a year ago. Copyrighted audio over HDMI 
>> (even with an HDCP enabled amp) is limited to 16bits at 48kHz.
>
> How many channels?  (this is CD quality by the way).

5.1 if the recording is in 5.1.

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:1733445pjh4gav58gs009pj82foa4ut24m@4ax.com...
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message
>>news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>>HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio via 
>>>>an
>>>>AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an 
>>>>HDCP
>>>>enabled amp.
>>>
>>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>>
>>No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's
>>instruction manual.
>
> Nonsense.  The HDMI and HDCP pages on Wikipedia say that HDMI can handle
> multi channel audio and that HDCP is intended to limit audio on *non*
> HDCP outputs.

Nope. It limits HD audio on ALL outputs and inputs including those with 
HDCP. If you want HD audio and it is copyrighted you are stuck with 
analogue, ie. decoding by the player.

>My instruction manual?  So we *are* talking implementation
> issues, then.  So what are they?

The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is forbidden for 
all domestic interfaces.

>
> -- 
> Dave Farrance

"Glenn Millar"  wrote in message 
news:poCdnbhsy6oVVdzVRVnyhwA@posted.plusnet...
> Dave Farrance wrote:
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in 
>>> message news:soq144h8u9eddb020udik5ud50cm86hq0b@4ax.com...
>>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> HDMI has been designed NOT to allow you to decode 96kHz 24bit audio 
>>>>> via an
>>>>> AV amp or similar equipment if the content is copyrighted even on an 
>>>>> HDCP
>>>>> enabled amp.
>>>> HDMI was not designed to disallow anything.  And HDCP was certainly
>>>> intended to convey the full audio from one HDCP enabled device to
>>> No it wasn't. It was designed to stop it outright. Read your player's 
>>> instruction manual.
>>
>> Nonsense.  The HDMI and HDCP pages on Wikipedia say that HDMI can handle
>> multi channel audio and that HDCP is intended to limit audio on *non*
>> HDCP outputs.  My instruction manual?  So we *are* talking implementation
>> issues, then.  So what are they?
>>
> I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 D80e 
> projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 7.1. The 
> PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 surround sound and 
> played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the bluray.

Right. So was it 24bit 96kHz? I doubt it, if the copyright flag was set. It 
was most probably down-sampled by the player before being passed to the amp.

>
> Regards
> Glenn...

Agamemnon wrote:

>> I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 
>> D80e projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 
>> 7.1. The PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 surround 
>> sound and played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the bluray.
> 
> Right. So was it 24bit 96kHz? I doubt it, if the copyright flag was set. 
> It was most probably down-sampled by the player before being passed to 
> the amp.
> 

That I will check for you tomorrow and report back.

Glenn...

Glenn Millar wrote:
> Agamemnon wrote:
> 
>>> I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 
>>> D80e projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 
>>> 7.1. The PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 
>>> surround sound and played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the 
>>> bluray.
>>
>> Right. So was it 24bit 96kHz? I doubt it, if the copyright flag was 
>> set. It was most probably down-sampled by the player before being 
>> passed to the amp.
>>
> 
> That I will check for you tomorrow and report back.
> 
> Glenn...

just to add, the setup above is all running HDMI 1.3

"Glenn Millar"  wrote in message 
news:RuKdnVNHJ6tJUdzVnZ2dnUVZ8hwAAAAA@plusnet...
> Glenn Millar wrote:
>> Agamemnon wrote:
>>
>>>> I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 D80e 
>>>> projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 7.1. 
>>>> The PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 surround sound 
>>>> and played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the bluray.
>>>
>>> Right. So was it 24bit 96kHz? I doubt it, if the copyright flag was set. 
>>> It was most probably down-sampled by the player before being passed to 
>>> the amp.
>>>
>>
>> That I will check for you tomorrow and report back.
>>
>> Glenn...
>
> just to add, the setup above is all running HDMI 1.3

Don't know about HDMI but I have HDCP 1.1. Apparently according to my manual 
my HDMI output may not be able to carry 96KHz audio at all but its not clear 
what the functionality applies to. "This function (LPCM SELECT) is not 
effective for the HDMI output", but it wouldn't be necessary to select 
output format to LPCM or not with HDMI since that is negotiated with the 
amp.

Below that it says

"When playing disc with copy protection
The sound will be down sampled to 48kHz (44.1kHz) even if you set (LPCM 
SELECT) to OFF."

Below that there's a section on DOLBY DIGITAL BITSTREAM which it says is 
available on HDMI.

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>
>"Glenn Millar"  wrote in message 
>news:RuKdnVNHJ6tJUdzVnZ2dnUVZ8hwAAAAA@plusnet...
>> Glenn Millar wrote:
>>> Agamemnon wrote:
>>>
>>>>> I setup a PS3 to a Yamaha 7.1 AV amp the other day. output to SIM2 D80e 
>>>>> projector, KEF 5005.2 speaker package with 2 extra speakers for 7.1. 
>>>>> The PS3 connected only with HDMI to the amp detected 7.1 surround sound 
>>>>> and played audio in fun 5.1 and 7.1 as required on the bluray.
>>>>
>>>> Right. So was it 24bit 96kHz? I doubt it, if the copyright flag was set. 
>>>> It was most probably down-sampled by the player before being passed to 
>>>> the amp.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That I will check for you tomorrow and report back.
>>>
>>> Glenn...
>>
>> just to add, the setup above is all running HDMI 1.3
>
>Don't know about HDMI but I have HDCP 1.1. Apparently according to my manual 
>my HDMI output may not be able to carry 96KHz audio at all but its not clear 
>what the functionality applies to. "This function (LPCM SELECT) is not 
>effective for the HDMI output", but it wouldn't be necessary to select 
>output format to LPCM or not with HDMI since that is negotiated with the 
>amp.
>
>Below that it says
>
>"When playing disc with copy protection
>The sound will be down sampled to 48kHz (44.1kHz) even if you set (LPCM 
>SELECT) to OFF."
>
>Below that there's a section on DOLBY DIGITAL BITSTREAM which it says is 
>available on HDMI.

So in answer to the OP's question, it seems that 5.1 *can* be carried by
HDMI.  What a surprise.

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is forbidden for 
>all domestic interfaces.

Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise.

Your telly goes wrong so it must be all the broadcaster's fault.  Your
player can't do something so it must be all the fault of the standards
organizations.  ;-)

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is forbidden 
>>for
>>all domestic interfaces.
>
> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise.
>
> Your telly goes wrong so it must be all the broadcaster's fault.  Your
> player can't do something so it must be all the fault of the standards
> organizations.  ;-)

Yes it is and they should have all been sued by trading standards and put in 
jail before they were allowed to sell me equipment that is totally incapable 
of transferring HD audio to a digital amp even though it was advertised with 
HDMI and HDCP.

"When playing back a copyright-protected 96kHz (88.2kHz) linear PCM DVD, the 
digital sound will be down-sampled at 48kHz (44.1kHz), even is you set LPCM 
to OFF"

What use is that?

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:

>
>"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
>news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is forbidden 
>>>for all domestic interfaces.
>>
>> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise... Your player can't do
>> something so it must be all the fault of the standards organizations...
>
>Yes it is... 

Cite?

-- 
Dave Farrance

"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message 
news:ljh544lk6llmcrg9p8cpju6c0ps3fvsm74@4ax.com...
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Dave Farrance"  wrote in message
>>news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>>The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is forbidden
>>>>for all domestic interfaces.
>>>
>>> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise... Your player can't do
>>> something so it must be all the fault of the standards organizations...
>>
>>Yes it is...
>
> Cite?

Why did you cut what I wrote?

I will cite it again.

"Yes it is and they should have all been sued by trading standards and put 
in
jail before they were allowed to sell me equipment that is totally incapable
of transferring HD audio to a digital amp even though it was advertised with
HDMI and HDCP.

"When playing back a copyright-protected 96kHz (88.2kHz) linear PCM DVD, the
digital sound will be down-sampled at 48kHz (44.1kHz), even is you set LPCM
to OFF"

What use is that?"

Denon DVD-1920 manual.

Dave Farrance wrote:
> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>
>>
>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in
>> message news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is
>>>> forbidden for all domestic interfaces.
>>>
>>> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise... Your player can't do
>>> something so it must be all the fault of the standards
>>> organizations...
>>
>> Yes it is...
>
> Cite?

From http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx


Q. Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?
Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit 
uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In 
addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby 
or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or 
high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or 
AES/EBU interfaces.) Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any 
compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 
96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V receivers on the market 
that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI.



So it would appear that once again Agamoron has got wrong.
-- 
 >^..^< This is Kitty. Copy and paste Kitty into your signature to help
her wipe out Bunny's world domination.

"Adrian"  wrote in message 
news:apWdnZsnysk2TN_VnZ2dnUVZ8rednZ2d@brightview.com...
> Dave Farrance wrote:
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in
>>> message news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
>>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is
>>>>> forbidden for all domestic interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise... Your player can't do
>>>> something so it must be all the fault of the standards
>>>> organizations...
>>>
>>> Yes it is...
>>
>> Cite?
>
> From http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx
>
>
> Q. Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?
> Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 
> 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media 
> formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format 
> such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel 
> or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older 
> S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) Additionally, most existing HDMI sources 
> can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output 
> uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are A/V 
> receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel 
> audio from HDMI.
>
>
>
> So it would appear that once again Agamoron has got wrong.

WRONG!

What you quote above is a blatant lie and trading standards should take 
action against HDMI.org for misleading the consumer. My DVD player can play 
DVD-Audio discs BUT with will NOT output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio 
from a DVD-Audio disc or anything else if it is COPYRIGHTED! Note the word 
COPYRIGHTED! If the material is COPYRIGHTED HDMI will NOT output it unless 
it is resampled to 48kHz.

"When playing back a copyright-protected 96kHz (88.2kHz) linear PCM DVD, the
digital sound will be down-sampled at 48kHz (44.1kHz), even if you set LPCM
to OFF" Denon DVD-1920 manual. HDCP 1.1

In , "Adrian"
 wrote:
>Dave Farrance wrote:
>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> "Dave Farrance"  wrote in
>>> message news:ulk4445fq2qpvlktgdne5j3t9qo3rq8r2u@4ax.com...
>>>> "Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The HDCP spec is the issue. 96kHz 24bit audio transmission is
>>>>> forbidden for all domestic interfaces.
>>>>
>>>> Cite?  The Wikipedia article says otherwise... Your player can't do
>>>> something so it must be all the fault of the standards
>>>> organizations...
>>>
>>> Yes it is...
>>
>> Cite?
>
>From http://www.hdmi.org/learningcenter/kb.aspx
>
>
>Q. Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?
>Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit 
>uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In 
>addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby 
>or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or 
>high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or 
>AES/EBU interfaces.) Additionally, most existing HDMI sources can output any 
>compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 
>96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk.

(but no indication of whether they actually do, 100% of the time, or only
for the occasions that the HDCP flags allow)

>There are A/V receivers on the market 
>that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI.

Again there are gaps here between just HDMI, and HDMI carrying
HDCP-protected data.

So then, if we say that the Denon DVD-1920 is in the "bad" camp of devices
which are downsampling the audio from 96kHz to 48kHz, when there is
apparently no need to do so, my questions are
1. why does it do this, it is really just copyright rules or is there some
other limitation that makes this necessary?
1. do they all do this?
2. if not, which amps/dvd players don't do this?

>So it would appear that once again Agamoron has got wrong.

Notwithstanding that, I would like to get to the bottom of it this time
around if possible please. All we have to go on is the quote from the
Denon manual, and your quote above. There is quite a gulf of missing
information in between which we need, and if we can find out the facts
first then have all the arguments later that would be great :-)

On 01/06/2008 17:51, Agamemnon wrote:

> trading standards should take 
> action against HDMI.org for misleading the consumer. 

I suggest you inform trading standards of the "problem" then, do report 
back on progress, won't you?

"Agamemnon" <agamemnon@hello.to.NO_SPAM> writes:

> What you quote above is a blatant lie and trading standards should
> take action against HDMI.org for misleading the consumer. My DVD
> player can play DVD-Audio discs BUT with will NOT output uncompressed
> 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disc or anything else if it is
> COPYRIGHTED! Note the word COPYRIGHTED! If the material is COPYRIGHTED
> HDMI will NOT output it unless it is resampled to 48kHz.

How much material do you (or anyone else for that matter) have on
DVD-Audio (or other High Definition format) that is NOT Copyrighted. In
the case of much classical music, the copyright in the original work
will have expired but there is still a copyright on the performance.