"The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the controversial 
Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing figures."
"Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched a year 
ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."

"Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three 
times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including BBC 3."

<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparing-to-spend-millions-more-on-BBC-Alba.html>

On 26 Oct, 20:07, "Ivan" <ivan'H'ol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the controversial
> Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing figures."
> "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched a year
> ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."
>
> "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three
> times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including BBC 3."
>
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparin...>

"The Corporation is planning to divert around four million pounds to
Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio 1,2,3,4 and
Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be dropped
from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
channel."

Not south of the board, I hope!

Cheers,
David.

davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
> On 26 Oct, 20:07, "Ivan" <ivan'H'ol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the controversial
>> Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing figures."
>> "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched a year
>> ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."
>>
>> "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three
>> times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including BBC 3."
>>
>> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparin...>
> 
> "The Corporation is planning to divert around four million pounds to
> Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio 1,2,3,4 and
> Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be dropped
> from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
> channel."
> 
> Not south of the board, I hope!

Nor north of the border either. I would much rather have the radio 
stations than BBC alba to be honest. And we live in Scotland. Not all of 
us are raving Scots people...

-- 

People like you are the reason people like me have to take medication.

?John Wright

The message 
from John Wright <""john\"@no spam here.com"> contains these words:

> davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
> > On 26 Oct, 20:07, "Ivan" <ivan'H'ol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the
> >> controversial
> >> Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing figures."
> >> "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was
> >> launched a year
> >> ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."
> >>
> >> "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three
> >> times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including
> >> BBC 3."
> >>
> >> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparin...>
> > 
> > "The Corporation is planning to divert around four million pounds to
> > Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio 1,2,3,4 and
> > Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be dropped
> > from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
> > channel."
> > 
> > Not south of the board, I hope!

> Nor north of the border either. I would much rather have the radio 
> stations than BBC alba to be honest. And we live in Scotland. Not all of 
> us are raving Scots people...

Viewing figures for BBC Alba might be small but I wonder if the figures
for the main radio networks on Freeview are even smaller?

I think we should have a TV and radio stations for England.
And while we at it a Government for England, and England to be independent, 
well Scotland Wales seem to be doing ok out of being seperate.

-- 
Regards,
David

FREESAT HD  as it is now it is a joke.

"John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message 
news:pYadnRJNPIcHunvXnZ2dnUVZ8nVi4p2d@pipex.net...
: davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
<snip>
: >
: > "The Corporation is planning to divert around four million 
pounds to
: > Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio 
1,2,3,4 and
: > Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be 
dropped
: > from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
: > channel."
: >
: > Not south of the board, I hope!
:
: Nor north of the border either. I would much rather have the 
radio
: stations than BBC alba to be honest. And we live in Scotland. 
Not all of
: us are raving Scots people...
:

Err, you can't receive those radio stations via either DAB, 
analogue (FM/MW/LW) or DVB-S?

You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if 
you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an 
opinion.

Jerry wrote:
> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message 


> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if 
> you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an 
> opinion. 

Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also denied 
an opinion on 'English matters'?

Do tell.

Guy

On Oct 27, 8:54 am, "Jerry" <mapson.sca...@btinternet.com.INVALID>
wrote:
> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in messagenews:pYadnRJNPIcHunvXnZ2dnUVZ8nVi4p2d@pipex.net...: davidrobin...@postmaster.co.uk wrote:
>
> <snip>
> : >
> : > "The Corporation is planning to divert around four million
> pounds to
> : > Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio
> 1,2,3,4 and
> : > Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be
> dropped
> : > from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
> : > channel."
> : >
> : > Not south of the board, I hope!
> :
> : Nor north of the border either. I would much rather have the
> radio
> : stations than BBC alba to be honest. And we live in Scotland.
> Not all of
> : us are raving Scots people...
> :
>
> Err, you can't receive those radio stations via either DAB,
> analogue (FM/MW/LW) or DVB-S?

Some people may be using freeview for their radio, so that would mean
buying DAB, DVB-S, or indeed an FM tuner/receiver.

> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if
> you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an
> opinion.

Yet we all have the right to an opinion if we think a huge amount of
money is being spent on a small amount of potential viewers, as we all
pay for out license fee. Don't dictate to other's what is or isn't
their culture. it just doesn't work.

Bigguy wrote:
> Jerry wrote:
>> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message 
> 
> 
>> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if you're 
>> not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an opinion. 
> 
> Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also denied 
> an opinion on 'English matters'?
> 


I guess this also precludes 'native born' Scots from poking their noses 
into English affairs.

Someone must have forgotten to tell Gordon Brown.          ;-)


G

How can you lose 1 third of your views from launch till now, surely at 
launch nobody is viewing it, so how can they tell?

I still feel that they need to stop having so many chanels and redistribute 
the  stuff they have in a more sensible fashion to cater for the viewers 
that  they have. They never really ask people the right questions.

Brian

-- 
Brian Gaff - briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Note:- In order to reduce spam, any email without 'Brian Gaff'
in the display name may be lost.
Blind user, so no pictures please!
"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.com> wrote in message 
news:hc4vi0$1hc$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>
> "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the 
> controversial Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing 
> figures."
> "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched a 
> year ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."
>
> "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three 
> times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including BBC 
> 3."
>
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparing-to-spend-millions-more-on-BBC-Alba.html>
>

The message

from "davidrobinson@postmaster.co.uk" 
contains these words:

> On 26 Oct, 20:07, "Ivan" <ivan'H'ol...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the
> > controversial
> > Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing figures."
> > "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched
> > a year
> > ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."
> >
> > "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs three
> > times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings including
> > BBC 3."
> >
> > <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparin...>

> "The Corporation is planning to divert around four million pounds to
> Alba from its radio stations to fund the move. BBC Radio 1,2,3,4 and
> Radio Scotland will no longer need the cash as they will be dropped
> from the Freeview service in the evenings to make way for the
> channel."

> Not south of the board, I hope!

> Cheers,
> David.



I suspect that the Edinburgh Government will be quite pleased with
reducing R1, R2, R3 and R4 coverage in Scotland even if only by a small
amount.  I worry what might happen if they ever get more control of the
BBC in Scotland, it might at last drive me into getting a satellite
receiver.  I am more surprised that have allowed Radio Scotland to be
dropped from Freeview.

It will be interesting to see if there is any reaction in the Borders or
Northern Isles where there is little Gaelic tradition.  There has been a
lot of backlash in Caithness after Highland Council forced Gaelic on
them in schools and road signs.

Though BBC Alba being on IPlayer allowed me to see my brief appearance
on it last night!

On Oct 27, 9:14 am, Bigguy  wrote:
> Bigguy wrote:
> > Jerry wrote:
> >> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
>
> >> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if you're
> >> not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an opinion.
>
> > Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also denied
> > an opinion on 'English matters'?
>
> I guess this also precludes 'native born' Scots from poking their noses
> into English affairs.
>
> Someone must have forgotten to tell Gordon Brown.          ;-)

And Alistair Darling, oh and thanks to Fred Goodwin too. :)

...snip...

> They never really ask people the right questions.

If you define the right question as the one which gets you the answer you 
want, then I suspect they are very good at asking the right question - 
smiley.

Paul DS.

On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,

Is it bggry.

No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.

No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)

Owain

In article <31303030303731354AE6C4A594@invalid.invalid>,
	MB wrote:

> Though BBC Alba being on IPlayer allowed me to see my brief appearance
> on it last night!

Oh? Spill the beans.

-- 
Paul Martin

In article <hc6cn0$imm$2@news.eternal-september.org>,
	Jerry wrote:

> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message 
> news:pYadnRJNPIcHunvXnZ2dnUVZ8nVi4p2d@pipex.net...

>: Nor north of the border either. I would much rather have the radio
>: stations than BBC alba to be honest. And we live in Scotland. Not all
>: of us are raving Scots people...

> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if 
> you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an 
> opinion. 

The historical culture of the East coast of Scotland (and the Northern
Isles) is more Norse than Celtic. Lowland Scotland has little interest
in Gaelic, either.

-- 
Paul Martin

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:54:41 -0000, "Jerry"
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

>Err, you can't receive those radio stations via either DAB, 
>analogue (FM/MW/LW)...?

Not, if like us, you live in an area in which no terrestrial services
are receivable.
-- 
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

The message

from Owain  contains these words:

> On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
> > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,

> Is it bggry.

> No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.

> No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
> greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
> Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)

> Owain



I am always a bit suspicious of the census figures for languages, many
people will say the can speak Gaelic because they would like to or just
want to boost the figures.  I suspect that if there was a question on
census forms in Cornwall about the Cornish language then they might find
that many more apparently speak it than it is normally accepted to be
the case.

"Mike"  wrote in message 
news:669730b1-cedc-46ae-b1fb-440668038349@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 27, 9:14 am, Bigguy  wrote:
> Bigguy wrote:
> > Jerry wrote:
> >> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
>
> >> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if you're
> >> not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an opinion.
>
> > Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also denied
> > an opinion on 'English matters'?
>
> I guess this also precludes 'native born' Scots from poking their noses
> into English affairs.
>
> Someone must have forgotten to tell Gordon Brown. ;-)

>And Alistair Darling, oh and thanks to Fred Goodwin too. :)

Isn't RBS a Scottish Bank? (I think the clue is in the name).

At least they haven't imposed something solely on the English, unlike 
Margaret Thatcher with the poll tax. Still she single handedly managed to 
ruin the Conservatives chances in Scotland for decades to come, so I suppose 
we can thank her for that.

Z

In article
,
Owain
 wrote:
> On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
> > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,

> Is it bggry.

> No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.

> No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
> greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
> Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)

I did not know the above figures, but am not surprised by them. 

I wonder if the BBC 'darn sarf' realise that 'Gael' and 'Scot' are far from
being synonyms. Hope the Trust realise this, although I assume this is a
'proposal' someone has put to them, so they may feel it is appropriate to
consider it and take opinions, etc... before concluding it would be a
mistake for the BBC as well as those in Scotland in general.

I realise that there will be many (like myself) who are interested enough
to watch some programmes in Gaelic, or about the history, music etc. So the
overall level of (some) interest will be above 1-2 percent I assume. But I
doubt that would justify blanket removal of so many radio stations to
provide a 'ghetto' channel for Alba on Freeview. Indeed, I suspect that
might mean a drop in the number of times those with no deliberate interest
find and view some programmes of the type they cover. 

So a decision to do this might be the BBC shooting themselves in the foot
and using more than one bullet in the process!

I also don't think much of the "so listen on Long Wave" type of argument.
I spent too long in the past stuck with a situation where we had Radio
Scotland on FM but *not* Radio 4.

And I do suspect the BBC may be setting themselves up for a 'no win'
situation where they end up being criticised either way, either for letting
it look like they "know Alba should be on Freeview but won't provide it" or
for "second class radio service in Scotland yet we all pay the same fee."

Better if they rapidly decide this proposal is a non-runner and that the
mix of Satellite and opt in similar to now is most appropriate given the
actual/likely/target audience in Gaeldom. Of course if the idea is to
spread interest in Gaelic then it should be a UK wide channel. Not just
limited to the Top Country.  :-)

Slainte,

Jim

-- 
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

"Jim Lesurf"  wrote in message 
news:50b0d0fdc0noise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> In article
> ,
> Owain
>  wrote:
>> On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
>> > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,
>
>> Is it bggry.
>
>> No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.
>
>> No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
>> greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
>> Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)
>
> I did not know the above figures, but am not surprised by them.
>
> I wonder if the BBC 'darn sarf' realise that 'Gael' and 'Scot' are far 
> from
> being synonyms. Hope the Trust realise this, although I assume this is a
> 'proposal' someone has put to them, so they may feel it is appropriate to
> consider it and take opinions, etc... before concluding it would be a
> mistake for the BBC as well as those in Scotland in general.
>
> I realise that there will be many (like myself) who are interested enough
> to watch some programmes in Gaelic, or about the history, music etc. So 
> the
> overall level of (some) interest will be above 1-2 percent I assume. But I
> doubt that would justify blanket removal of so many radio stations to
> provide a 'ghetto' channel for Alba on Freeview. Indeed, I suspect that
> might mean a drop in the number of times those with no deliberate interest
> find and view some programmes of the type they cover.
>
> So a decision to do this might be the BBC shooting themselves in the foot
> and using more than one bullet in the process!
>
> I also don't think much of the "so listen on Long Wave" type of argument.
> I spent too long in the past stuck with a situation where we had Radio
> Scotland on FM but *not* Radio 4.
>
> And I do suspect the BBC may be setting themselves up for a 'no win'
> situation where they end up being criticised either way, either for 
> letting
> it look like they "know Alba should be on Freeview but won't provide it" 
> or
> for "second class radio service in Scotland yet we all pay the same fee."
>
> Better if they rapidly decide this proposal is a non-runner and that the
> mix of Satellite and opt in similar to now is most appropriate given the
> actual/likely/target audience in Gaeldom. Of course if the idea is to
> spread interest in Gaelic then it should be a UK wide channel. Not just
> limited to the Top Country.  :-)
>
> Slainte,
>
> Jim
>
> -- 

I must admit I don't see the need for this service - why should Gaelic 
speakers have a distinctly different interest in programming terms than 
other Scots? Surely if you want to provide a Gaelic service then using the 
red button for an alternative audio track over the standard BBC Scotland 
output should be sufficient - and for some programmes this might be the 
original language of the broadcast with the English version as the dubbed 
audio.

If the problem is that this service is too Glasgow/Edinburgh centric then it 
is the programming that needs addressing not the language being used - and 
living in Northampton and having Look 'Norwich' as the regional programme I 
do understand this criticism.

-- 
Paul S

"Bigguy"  wrote in message 
news:7knrn5F3ah88cU1@mid.individual.net...
: Jerry wrote:
: > "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
:
:
: > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and 
if
: > you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right 
to an
: > opinion.
:
: Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also 
denied
: an opinion on 'English matters'?
:
: Do tell.
:

Not on English *cultural* issues, no!...

"Bigguy"  wrote in message 
news:7knrsqF3ah88cU2@mid.individual.net...
: Bigguy wrote:
: > Jerry wrote:
: >> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
: >
: >
: >> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and 
if you're
: >> not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an 
opinion.
: >
: > Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots 
also denied
: > an opinion on 'English matters'?
: >
:
:
: I guess this also precludes 'native born' Scots from poking 
their noses
: into English affairs.
:
: Someone must have forgotten to tell Gordon Brown.          ;-)
:

...and perhaps you need to learn to read?

"Alan White"  wrote in message 
news:uckde51gpkfjkjh3cp2i3lenls8thu9io8@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 08:54:41 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >Err, you can't receive those radio stations via either DAB,
: >analogue (FM/MW/LW)...?
:
: Not, if like us, you live in an area in which no terrestrial 
services
: are receivable.

But then you are not going to be affected by these changes 
anyway... Duh!

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:37:58 -0000, "Jerry"
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

>But then you are not going to be affected by these changes 
>anyway... Duh! 

So?
-- 
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

"Paul S" <morespam@nothanks> writes:

> Surely if you want to provide a Gaelic service then using the red
> button for an alternative audio track over the standard BBC Scotland
> output should be sufficient - and for some programmes this might be
> the original language of the broadcast with the English version as the
> dubbed audio.

Or even just broadcast it in one of the alternate audio channels. On my
freeview PVR, I can select the primary and alternate languages (in the
same menu as sub-titles)[1]. So if a gaelic speaker were to set Gaelic
as the primary language and English as the secondary, any programmes
broadcast with a Gaelic soundtrack would be presented in Gaelic and
others in English.

[1] Though that does not, of course, mean that any programmes are
actually broadcast with alternate soundtracks, but it strongly implies
that the standards allow for it.

Ivan wrote:
> 
> "The BBC is preparing to spend millions more on BBC Alba, the 
> controversial Gaellic television station, as it seeks to boost viewing 
> figures."
> "Alba, which has lost one third of its viewers since it was launched a 
> year ago, could be made available on Freeview next year."

Yes, one of them died.


> 
> "Currently available only on cable and satellite, the channel costs 
> three times more per viewer than other comparable BBC offerings 
> including BBC 3."
> 
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/6440138/BBC-is-preparing-to-spend-millions-more-on-BBC-Alba.html> 
> 
>

On Oct 27, 2:24 pm, "Zimmy" <z...@y.x> wrote:
> "Mike"  wrote in message
>
> news:669730b1-cedc-46ae-b1fb-440668038349@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
> On Oct 27, 9:14 am, Bigguy  wrote:
>
> > Bigguy wrote:
> > > Jerry wrote:
> > >> "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
>
> > >> You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and if you're
> > >> not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right to an opinion.
>
> > > Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots also denied
> > > an opinion on 'English matters'?
>
> > I guess this also precludes 'native born' Scots from poking their noses
> > into English affairs.
>
> > Someone must have forgotten to tell Gordon Brown. ;-)
> >And Alistair Darling, oh and thanks to Fred Goodwin too. :)
>
> Isn't RBS a Scottish Bank? (I think the clue is in the name).

But they own one of the biggest Bank brands in England. NWB.

> At least they haven't imposed something solely on the English, unlike
> Margaret Thatcher with the poll tax. Still she single handedly managed to
> ruin the Conservatives chances in Scotland for decades to come, so I suppose
> we can thank her for that.
>
> Z

"Jerry" <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:hc74b2$qto$1@news.eternal-september.org...
:
: "Bigguy"  wrote in message
: news:7knrn5F3ah88cU1@mid.individual.net...
:: Jerry wrote:
:: > "John Wright" <""john\"@no spam here.com"> wrote in message
::
::
:: > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture, and
: if
:: > you're not Scottish by birth then you hardly have the right
: to an
:: > opinion.
::
:: Would this also go the other way - are 'native born' Scots 
also
: denied
:: an opinion on 'English matters'?
::
:: Do tell.
::
:
: Not on English *cultural* issues, no!...
:

Oops, I mean yes, the Scots shouldn't have a say on English 
cultural issues.

"Paul S" <morespam@nothanks> wrote in message 
news:l6KdnT-C8a8Nj3rXnZ2dnUVZ8h-dnZ2d@pipex.net...
:
<snip>
:
: Surely if you want to provide a Gaelic service then using the
: red button for an alternative audio track over the standard
: BBC Scotland output should be sufficient

Not if the intension is to use the programmes as a means to teach 
the language, a disjointed voice to some other languages mouth 
movements is more than a little pointless!

"Alan White"  wrote in message 
news:286ee5h50d7hko5c98rmdnj7lpm2jrvmh4@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:37:58 -0000, "Jerry"
: <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:
:
: >But then you are not going to be affected by these changes
: >anyway... Duh!
:
: So?

Duh?... You mean, what is wrong answering some other question to 
what has been asked, apart from being rather pointless it muddies 
the otherwise crystal clear waters...

Point of note from a resident of the Highlands of Jockland.

Estimates I have seen indicate that there are around 60,000 Gaelic speakers 
in Scotland and around 300,000 Urdu speakers. So a channel in Urdu would be 
more justifiable than one in bloody Gaelic !.

The other problem with Gaelic making it more irrelvant than it already 
should be is in the written form there is such a variance.

A document in "classic Gaelic" from a Professor at Edinburgh University 
would be hard to read by an everyday "modern Gaelic" speaker in Northern 
Scotland and vice-versa. I came across this issue when involved in providing 
translated documents for NHS/Councils in Scotland. That is to say documents 
translated by Uni. staff rejected by the communties they were provided to as 
unusable and documents translated by community members criticised by Gaelic 
Uni. staff. as not proper Gaelic.

Basically BBC Alba, what a load of P.C. toss it is to provide it and a total 
waste of licence payers money just like the tax money wasted on the very 
expensive mickey mouse parliament full of half-wits in Edinburgh.

Must go, time to take my meds. before the red mist takes full hold.
bye.

I am ambivalent about this.

It would certainly be a pity for non-Gaelic speakers in Scotland to
lose so many channels.

However, my mother was of Scots descent, and I am an unashamed
Scotsphile, and, although I am not a Gaelic speaker, I have always
loved the sound of the language.

Also ...

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 03:43:33 -0700 (PDT), Owain
 wrote:

> On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
> > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,

'Part of' might have been a better description ...
 
> Is it bggry.
> 
> No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.
> 
> No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
> greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
> Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)

So?  Gaelic music and songs reach a far wider audience than that and
have some of the most beautiful tunes I have ever heard.

The countryside is scattered with wonderful place names bequeathed by
the language, Crianlarich, the Kyle Of Lochalsh, Rannoch Moor ...

The very Scots accent itself has been influenced by Gaelic.

And I take it then you never watch any film in any 'foreign' language
with subtitles?  Why not Gaelic too?  The recently repeated series
"Chowdie And Cream" was a joy.

Gaelic is an inseperable part of Scottish culture, however much you
may wish to deny it.
-- 
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist.  Or use a contact addresses at:
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"Illuminated"  wrote in message 
news:hc78um$qcg$1@aioe.org...

<snip>
:
: The other problem with Gaelic making it more irrelvant than it 
already
: should be is in the written form there is such a variance.
:

Even more reason to promote the, unified, spoken Gaelic word 
then!

In article , Paul S
<morespam@nothanks> wrote:

> "Jim Lesurf"  wrote in message
> news:50b0d0fdc0noise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> 
> > I wonder if the BBC 'darn sarf' realise that 'Gael' and 'Scot' are far
> > from being synonyms. 

> > I also don't think much of the "so listen on Long Wave" type of
> > argument. I spent too long in the past stuck with a situation where we
> > had Radio Scotland on FM but *not* Radio 4.


> I must admit I don't see the need for this service - why should Gaelic
> speakers have a distinctly different interest in programming terms than
> other Scots? 

There are, I think, two related issues. One is the language, the other is
the related cultural/social aspects in terms of music, poetry, etc, and the
lives of the communities involved. IIUC There are already some sound radio
stations or opt outs for some areas.

Personally, I do agree with and like having some Gaelic programmes on
BBC1/2 and having coverage of the related history, etc. That makes good
sense to me. That seems to me to be better than giving the topics their own
'ghetto' station. At best, I suspect most in Scotland would then at best
ignore it, and at worst resent it having 'taken away' so many radio
stations that others can still hear via Freeview.

> If the problem is that this service is too Glasgow/Edinburgh centric
> then it is the programming that needs addressing not the language being
> used - and living in Northampton and having Look 'Norwich' as the
> regional programme I do understand this criticism.

I don't know, but I have the feeling that there may be some complex
Scottish 'politics' here between various factions arguing their 'corner'
and trying to position themselves. The Gael areas tend to be far from the
'central belt', and perhaps not just in terms of physical geography.  :-)

This does make me wonder about the motives of those who made the 'proposal'
and then what they - and others - might do to exploit any ensuring debate
or decisions for their own ends. To me this looks like a minefield for the
BBC. One they might be wiser to avoid entering.

It might make more sense in practice if the change were limited to the
parts of the country where Gaelic is more commonly spoken. i.e. roughly
where there are Gaelic sound radio provisions now. But even that does
strike me as potentially unwise as an outcome. 

Slainte,

Jim

-- 
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 16:30:04 -0000, "Jerry"
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> wrote:

>Duh?... You mean, what is wrong answering some other question to 
>what has been asked, apart from being rather pointless it muddies 
>the otherwise crystal clear waters...

Oh, right.
-- 
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather

In article , Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> I am ambivalent about this.

>  I have always loved the sound of the language.

Me too. But I could say the same about other languages like French,
Welsh, etc. Or many other languages when sung by a skilful singer.
e.g. old Persian songs sung by Shusha, or Indian music by Lakshmi
Shankar...

> The very Scots accent itself has been influenced by Gaelic.

Aye, that'll be right, pal.  :-)

...And also by other languages, from English to the Northern ones. But
I don't think that means we need to have Scandinavian channels on 
Freeview, does it?


> Gaelic is an inseperable part of Scottish culture, however much you may
> wish to deny it.

Similarly, it is true that a wheel is usually a part of a car, yes.  :-)

So there is some overlap or influence. But 'Gael' and 'Scot' are not
synonyms. And as someone else has pointed out, if you want to argue this in
terms of numbers you could make cases for all kinds of 'other influential
languages or cultures'.  Alas, the result might be to make shambles of any
national broadcasting if you insist they all have their own stations.

TBH I have found that a number of the younger people I've worked with who 
come from Highland areas do tend to regard the campaign to boost Gaelic
as a language as an aspect of the 'Tartan and Shortbread Tin' view of the
country that they'd have preferred to vanish with Brigadoon!  :-) This
despite liking the sound of the language or doing things like playing the
pipes themselves. The problem here is that Gael isn't Scot. Things just
aren't that simple so far as I have seen it as an 'incomer'. 

The present situation is that programmes in Gaelic and about Gael matters
regularly appear on BBCTV in Scotland. There are also local radio stations
for the areas that use Gaelic. That seems reasonable to me. But chopping
away a slew of UK radio for one Alba station (already on satellite and
iPlayer) for the whole of Scotland - the bulk of whom don't speak Gaelic -
makes nae sense to me. Its a scunner, pal! Despite my having chosen to
have chequebooks where the cheques are printed in the Gaelic. Confusion
to the English! :-)

Slainte,

Jim

-- 
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics  http://www.st-and.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
Armstrong Audio  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/Armstrong/armstrong.html
Audio Misc  http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Oops, "Crowdie & Cream" ...

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:02:04 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
> 
> And I take it then you never watch any film in any 'foreign' language
> with subtitles?  Why not Gaelic too?  The recently repeated series
> "Chowdie And Cream" was a joy.
-- 
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist.  Or use a contact addresses at:
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:51:06 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
 wrote:
> 
> So there is some overlap or influence. But 'Gael' and 'Scot' are not
> synonyms.

... and ...

> The problem here is that Gael isn't Scot.

I did not claim that they are.

> The present situation is that programmes in Gaelic and about Gael matters
> regularly appear on BBCTV in Scotland. There are also local radio stations
> for the areas that use Gaelic. That seems reasonable to me.

And to me too.

> But chopping
> away a slew of UK radio for one Alba station (already on satellite and
> iPlayer) for the whole of Scotland - the bulk of whom don't speak Gaelic -
> makes nae sense to me.

I said that it would a pity for non-Gaelic speakers to lose all the
channels.

My arguments weren't directed at the criticism of the decision, but
against the denial that Gaelic had anything to do with Scots culture
(Right number of negatives in there?  Yes, I think so).
-- 
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist.  Or use a contact addresses at:
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

The message 
from Jim Lesurf  contains these words:

> In article
> ,
> Owain
>  wrote:
> > On 27 Oct, 08:54, "Jerry"  wrote:
> > > You might not be a raving Scot but it *is* your Culture,

> > Is it bggry.

> > No of Gaelic speakers in Scotland: 58,652 or 1.2% of the population.

> > No parish in Mainland Scotland has a proportion of Gaelic speakers
> > greater than 25% any more (the highest value corresponds to Lochalsh,
> > Highland, with 20.1%)  (all wikipedia / 2001 Census)

> I did not know the above figures, but am not surprised by them. 


I don't know the accuracy of the figures but when Radio nan Gaidheal
coverage on VHF was extended to Central Scotland, it was said that there
are more Gaelic speakers in that area than in all the Western Isles.  I
have doubts myself but that is what was said at the time.

The message 
from "Paul S" <morespam@nothanks> contains these words:

> I must admit I don't see the need for this service - why should Gaelic 
> speakers have a distinctly different interest in programming terms than 
> other Scots? Surely if you want to provide a Gaelic service then using the 
> red button for an alternative audio track over the standard BBC Scotland 
> output should be sufficient - and for some programmes this might be the 
> original language of the broadcast with the English version as the dubbed 
> audio.


Presumably you feel the same about S4C?

The message <hc78um$qcg$1@aioe.org>
from "Illuminated"  contains these words:

> Point of note from a resident of the Highlands of Jockland.

> Estimates I have seen indicate that there are around 60,000 Gaelic speakers 
> in Scotland and around 300,000 Urdu speakers. So a channel in Urdu would be 
> more justifiable than one in bloody Gaelic !.

> The other problem with Gaelic making it more irrelvant than it already 
> should be is in the written form there is such a variance.

> A document in "classic Gaelic" from a Professor at Edinburgh University 
> would be hard to read by an everyday "modern Gaelic" speaker in Northern 
> Scotland and vice-versa. I came across this issue when involved in
> providing 
> translated documents for NHS/Councils in Scotland. That is to say documents 
> translated by Uni. staff rejected by the communties they were provided
> to as 
> unusable and documents translated by community members criticised by Gaelic 
> Uni. staff. as not proper Gaelic.

> Basically BBC Alba, what a load of P.C. toss it is to provide it and a
> total 
> waste of licence payers money just like the tax money wasted on the very 
> expensive mickey mouse parliament full of half-wits in Edinburgh.

> Must go, time to take my meds. before the red mist takes full hold.
> bye.


There are distinct "dialects" in Gaelic and there is a bit of snobbery
about whose in the "correct" version just as happens in Wales with
Welsh.

But it like saying that a report written by a Professor from Newcastle,
Liverpool, Plymouth or London would not be understandable to people in
the rest of the UK who did not speak their particular dialect.

The message 
from Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> contains these words:

> So?  Gaelic music and songs reach a far wider audience than that and
> have some of the most beautiful tunes I have ever heard.


BBC Scotland's co-production Transatlantic Connections can stand against
any other music programme on TV and is probably better than most.

"Jim Lesurf"  wrote in message 
news:50b0e203f7noise@audiomisc.co.uk...
<snip>
:
: Personally, I do agree with and like having some Gaelic 
programmes on
: BBC1/2 and having coverage of the related history, etc. That 
makes good
: sense to me. That seems to me to be better than giving the 
topics their own
: 'ghetto' station.

Careful, the 'ghetto' argument is a very good one, so why do we 
need more than three or four TV channels total? OTOH having 
specialist channels can spark interest in a subject, for example 
if I had to endure the biennial, puerile, Andrew Neil and "The 
Daily Politics" I doubt that I would have taken so much interest 
in politics as I have since having access to BBC Parliament 
(which is in some ways comparable, ratings/popularity wise, as 
the Welsh and Gaelic language channels are), the same could be 
true for all sorts of specialist channels, why have "Film Four" 
or "More Four" when it's content could be screened on Channel 
Four, why have ITV 2, 3 and 4 when ITV1 could (and has, in many 
cases) broadcast the content...

In article <hc7kue$480$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Jerry 
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> writes:
>for example if I had to endure the biennial, puerile, Andrew Neil and 
>"The Daily Politics"

I struggle to understand what you intended, I'm afraid.

Which bit of Andrew Neil only happens every other year?

As for puerile, he is often superficially light hearted, but 
simultaneously incisive and challenging to his interviewees. He seems to 
be a sceptic regarding the main parties (insofar as I can determine), 
which is also a healthy state of affairs -- IMHO we have had gushing, 
left-wing sycophancy from the BBC for far too long, and Neil, Paxo and 
Eddie Mair all help to redress the balance a bit.

So I expect I'm in disagreement with you, but I still haven't really got 
a clue as to what you were on about.

Regards,

S.
-- 
SimonM
                            ----- TubeWiz.com -----
           Video making/uploading that's easy to use & fun to share
                  Try it today! (now with DFace blurring)

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 07:50:08 -0000, "David" 
wrote:

>I think we should have a TV and radio stations for England.
>And while we at it a Government for England, and England to be independent, 
>well Scotland Wales seem to be doing ok out of being seperate.

I think that's largely because England finances it, at least in Wales'
case. :)

Who should own the oil, how much of it there is and what it's worth
seems to be infinitely arguable. :)

And another smiley face, just to be on the safe side. :)
-- 
Martin Jay

On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:50:06 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
 wrote:
> 
> He seems to 
> be a sceptic regarding the main parties (insofar as I can determine), 
> which is also a healthy state of affairs -- IMHO we have had gushing, 
> left-wing sycophancy from the BBC for far too long, and Neil, Paxo and 
> Eddie Mair all help to redress the balance a bit.

IIRC Andrew Neil was an unashamedly gushing, right-wing sycophant
during the Thatcher years.  He used to be about as right-wing as they
come, certainly not what I would call independent-minded.
-- 
=========================================================
Please always reply to ng as the email in this post's
header does not exist.  Or use a contact addresses at:
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/JavaJive/JavaJive.html
	http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/Macfarlane.html

"SpamTrapSeeSig"  wrote in message 
news:Wlx5sErav15KFwrR@marketing1.teknocraft.co.uk...
: In article <hc7kue$480$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Jerry
: <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> writes:
: >for example if I had to endure the biennial, puerile, Andrew 
Neil and
: >"The Daily Politics"
:
: I struggle to understand what you intended, I'm afraid.
:
: Which bit of Andrew Neil only happens every other year?

Same old trolls, if you really can understand what I was aiming 
at you are not a very intelligent person, my dyslexia or not.

:
: As for puerile, he is often superficially light hearted, but
: simultaneously incisive and challenging to his interviewees. He 
seems to

It's the delivery style, not the questions.

: be a sceptic regarding the main parties (insofar as I can 
determine),
: which is also a healthy state of affairs -- IMHO we have had 
gushing,
: left-wing sycophancy from the BBC for far too long, and Neil, 
Paxo and
: Eddie Mair all help to redress the balance a bit.

But that is the problem, the presenter should NOT be showing 
their own politics or opinions, TV [1] is becoming far to much 
like the printed press with opinions being given as if they are 
the facts, I do not want Paxman, Neil or anyone else 
'interpreting' what Brown or Cameron etc. said, I want to listen 
to it without comment and make my own mind up!

[1] and radio for that matter, Humphys on the "Today" programme 
is always adding his opinions to the subject being debated/talked 
about

:
: So I expect I'm in disagreement with you, but I still haven't 
really got
: a clue as to what you were on about.
:

No surprise there, your normally so far up your own to find 
anything but your own appendix!

The message 
from Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> contains these words:

> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009 20:50:06 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
>  wrote:
> > 
> > He seems to 
> > be a sceptic regarding the main parties (insofar as I can determine), 
> > which is also a healthy state of affairs -- IMHO we have had gushing, 
> > left-wing sycophancy from the BBC for far too long, and Neil, Paxo and 
> > Eddie Mair all help to redress the balance a bit.

> IIRC Andrew Neil was an unashamedly gushing, right-wing sycophant
> during the Thatcher years.  He used to be about as right-wing as they
> come, certainly not what I would call independent-minded.


I like his programmes on BBC2 I am always reminded of when he worked for
Murdoch and after the launch of Sky News said that BBC TV should now end
all news programmes on TV because there was no need for them.

The message <hc80nv$g9g$1@news.eternal-september.org>
from "Jerry" <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> contains these words:

> But that is the problem, the presenter should NOT be showing 
> their own politics or opinions, TV [1] is becoming far to much 
> like the printed press with opinions being given as if they are 
> the facts, I do not want Paxman, Neil or anyone else 
> 'interpreting' what Brown or Cameron etc. said, I want to listen 
> to it without comment and make my own mind up!


So you want to go back to the 1950s(?) when it was a case of "now Prime
Minister would you like to explain your policies" then after 30 minites
of waffle "thank you for that Prime Minister"?

In article <hc80nv$g9g$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Jerry 
<mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> writes

>Same old trolls, if you really can understand what I was aiming
>at you are not a very intelligent person, my dyslexia or not.

So you feel the need to be rude, but not to explain why Andrew Neil is 
'biennial'.

It seems that not only can I not understand what you meant or intended 
(or whatever), but you can't understand my question either.

I don't think you need a cure for dyslexia, as much as a good 
dictionary.

And for the record, I think it's the likes of Neil, Paxo and Mair who DO 
interview fairly, not the other way around.
-- 
SimonM
                            ----- TubeWiz.com -----
           Video making/uploading that's easy to use & fun to share
                  Try it today! (now with DFace blurring)

"Jim Lesurf"  wrote in message 
news:50b0e95933noise@audiomisc.co.uk...
> In article , Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> Despite my having chosen to
> have chequebooks where the cheques are printed in the Gaelic.

Blimey! Cheque books? I haven't written a cheque for years.

Bill

"SpamTrapSeeSig"  wrote in message 
news:q70W7VsPn65KFwdh@marketing1.teknocraft.co.uk...
> In article <hc80nv$g9g$1@news.eternal-september.org>, Jerry 
> <mapson.scarts@btinternet.com.INVALID> writes
>
>>Same old trolls, if you really can understand what I was aiming
>>at you are not a very intelligent person, my dyslexia or not.

You write perfectly well for reams, then explain a slip as dyslexia. 
Bollocks.

Bill

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