Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which were
highly vulnerable to high winds.  When I said that they were co-sited with
the other services, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
"she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that this
person is a primary school teacher.

Can anyone cast their mind back and throw any light on the situation.  I
assume that the feed to Caradon Hill got lost.  A dish being blown off
bearing, maybe?

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

charles wrote:
> Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
> brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
> later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which were
> highly vulnerable to high winds.  When I said that they were co-sited with
> the other services, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that this
> person is a primary school teacher.
> 
> Can anyone cast their mind back and throw any light on the situation.  I
> assume that the feed to Caradon Hill got lost.  A dish being blown off
> bearing, maybe?

In those days C4 was routed through the regional ITV centres (for commercial 
insertion), so the feeds to Caradon and Stockland Hill would have followed the 
same routes as ITV/TSW programmes from Plymouth.

ISTR BT tubes from Derry's Cross studio to the BT site at Crownhill (can't 
remember its proper name), where the link split. An SHF feed to Caradon, and 
another back 'up country' to Stockland.

I'd have thought if either of those links had failed so would have TSW ?

My memory was the only transmitter in Devon or Cornwall to suffer serious 
damage that night was Countisbury ? Of course plenty were off for days because 
of incoming power failure.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> ISTR BT tubes from Derry's Cross studio to the BT site at Crownhill
> (can't remember its proper name), where the link split.

Forder Battery.


-- 
Richard Lamont                        http://www.lamont.me.uk/

OpenPGP Key ID: 0xBD89BE41
Fingerprint: CE78 C285 1F97 0BDA 886D BA78 26D8 6C34 BD89 BE41

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> charles wrote:
> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which
> > were highly vulnerable to high winds.  When I said that they were
> > co-sited with the other services, I was told I didn't know what I was
> > talking about since "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's
> > worrying to me that this person is a primary school teacher.
> > 
> > Can anyone cast their mind back and throw any light on the situation. 
> > I assume that the feed to Caradon Hill got lost.  A dish being blown
> > off bearing, maybe?

> In those days C4 was routed through the regional ITV centres (for
> commercial insertion), so the feeds to Caradon and Stockland Hill would
> have followed the same routes as ITV/TSW programmes from Plymouth.

> ISTR BT tubes from Derry's Cross studio to the BT site at Crownhill
> (can't remember its proper name), where the link split. An SHF feed to
> Caradon, and another back 'up country' to Stockland.

> I'd have thought if either of those links had failed so would have TSW ?

> My memory was the only transmitter in Devon or Cornwall to suffer serious
> damage that night was Countisbury ? Of course plenty were off for days
> because of incoming power failure.

The story as told to me was only Ch4.  Incoming power lost would affect all
services on relays.  Any thought on Huntshaw Cross?  ISTR that BBC had it
RBL Caradon.  I'm pretty sure the story teller was in North Devon at the
time.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

charles wrote:

> The story as told to me was only Ch4.  Incoming power lost would affect all
> services on relays.  Any thought on Huntshaw Cross?  ISTR that BBC had it
> RBL Caradon.  I'm pretty sure the story teller was in North Devon at the
> time.

ITV/C4 were also RBL Caradon back then, however the Beeb had (and still 
have) RBS Mendip or Wenvoe there ?

So:-

If Caradon had lost its incoming feed of C4, it would have most likely 
been radiating an electronic apology caption, and therefore so would 
Huntshaw.

If Caradon was off the air on all four channels for whatever reason, 
Huntshaw ITV and 4 would have been also, but BBC 1/2 would still be 
radiating there via RBS.

The most likely scenario that would fit your story teller's observation, 
is that for whatever reason only C4 from Huntshaw failed ?

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6cu7lbF3gp8qfU1@mid.individual.net...
> charles wrote:
>
>> The story as told to me was only Ch4.  Incoming power lost would affect 
>> all
>> services on relays.  Any thought on Huntshaw Cross?  ISTR that BBC had it
>> RBL Caradon.  I'm pretty sure the story teller was in North Devon at the
>> time.
>
> ITV/C4 were also RBL Caradon back then, however the Beeb had (and still 
> have) RBS Mendip or Wenvoe there ?
>
> So:-
>
> If Caradon had lost its incoming feed of C4, it would have most likely 
> been radiating an electronic apology caption, and therefore so would 
> Huntshaw.
>
> If Caradon was off the air on all four channels for whatever reason, 
> Huntshaw ITV and 4 would have been also, but BBC 1/2 would still be 
> radiating there via RBS.
>
> The most likely scenario that would fit your story teller's observation, 
> is that for whatever reason only C4 from Huntshaw failed ?

I recall that night very clearly. I was on the night shift at Mtv in Hawley 
Crescent. Lots crashing and banging from the partially built studio next 
door from about 1am. By 2am, the Betacart was bleeping regularly due to 
power dips and my assistant was look a bit green. By 4am the power was off 
and I was around the back trying to get the emergency generator running. The 
guy who was supposed to run it up once a week had not bothered and the 
battery was flat. I was working in an environment of luvies and non 
technicals, but my background was pirate ships, 50KW generators etc. You can 
surmise which one, I won't say. I spent 20 minutes nicking the battery out 
of the builders air compressor left in the area for the new studio build and 
when I got the battery out we didn't have a spanner or monkey wrench to undo 
the bolts of the generator battery. I had an idea. Musa cables have sturdy 
braid and would probably make a good jump leads. I got the previously 
mentioned bloke who was marginally technical and responsible for running the 
generator to hold two end of the musa's on the donor battery while I held 
the other ends across the generator engine battery. The security guard who 
was helping us, was scared of the sparks and would hold them after the first 
try. The generator soon fired into to life and when I got back into 
transmission and fired everything up, cued up Money for Nothing and got 
ready to go back on air. We beat the BBC back by 2 hours.

Graham wrote:

> 
> I recall that night very clearly. I was on the night shift at Mtv in Hawley 
> Crescent. 

[snip]

Did MTV share the building in Hawley Cres with TV-am ?  Or was this 
another place in the same road ?

AIUI MTV/Viacom bought 'Egg Cup' towers from TV-am after they ceased 
broadcasting in Dec 31 1992 ?

That night TV-am lost all power, and had to broadcast the first hour of 
their Breakfast show from Thames TV at Euston.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:6cukvtF3hli5qU1@mid.individual.net...
> Graham wrote:
>
>>
>> I recall that night very clearly. I was on the night shift at Mtv in
>> Hawley Crescent.
>
> [snip]
>
> Did MTV share the building in Hawley Cres with TV-am ?  Or was this
> another place in the same road ?
>
> AIUI MTV/Viacom bought 'Egg Cup' towers from TV-am after they ceased
> broadcasting in Dec 31 1992 ?
>
> That night TV-am lost all power, and had to broadcast the first hour of
> their Breakfast show from Thames TV at Euston.

We were at 13 Hawley Crescent in the Air TV/Crysalais building at the
opposite end to TVAM. Mtv did indeed move into the old TVAM site after I
left and from then on, seemed to leave it on auto with not even a mix
between vids, let alone anything more creative. Standard Betacart cut as far
as I could tell from watching off-air. Most Mtv TX staff went to Sky long
before this and I lost touch with what they did after that.

Graham

I also recall that night clearly.
Working for BBC transmitters in Devon.
In the morning, got a call-out to a Telecomms site at Wellington.
Struggled across Dartmoor, scraped the car under fallen trees.
Got onto the M5 north, it was deserted. Lorries hiding under bridges, 
motorway lights hanging loose and smashing on the carriageway, bits of 
tree blowing across the motorway.
Left the motorway,  then got to a tree lined avenue. Got halfway down 
and realised that there were branches falling all around me. Did a U 
turn and fled rapidly. Never got to the call-out.
Then sat in Exeter services for an hour, waiting for the wind to drop.
Went to Beacon Hill for another call-out. On the way, a lorry was blown 
over right in front of me. No mains at Beacon Hill.
Went home to find just one roof tile missing - Wasn't a bad day after 
that...

A

charles wrote:
> Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
> brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
> later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which were
> highly vulnerable to high winds. 

That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with 
long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.

In article <SLzak.101444$312.10061@newsfe12.ams2>,
   Stuart  wrote:
> charles wrote:
> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which
> > were highly vulnerable to high winds. 

> That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with 
> long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.

That's what I told the story teller, but was thought to be crazy.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In message , charles 
 writes
>In article <SLzak.101444$312.10061@newsfe12.ams2>,
>   Stuart  wrote:
>> charles wrote:
>> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 1987
>> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall because, as
>> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places which
>> > were highly vulnerable to high winds.
>
>> That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with
>> long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.
>
>That's what I told the story teller, but was thought to be crazy.

For some reason, the general public seem convinced that different 
channels come from different sites.

*Years* after the VHF service from Lichfield closed down, people in the 
West Midlands would insist that "ITV" came from it and that Sutton 
Coldfield was "only for the BBC".   Some people still are, including 
someone I know in the village of Shenstone, within sight of both 
transmitters!

Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal comes 
from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!

-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message 
news:mSINupivtzaIFwf2@bluebadge.demon.co.uk...
> In message , charles 
>  writes
>>In article <SLzak.101444$312.10061@newsfe12.ams2>,
>>   Stuart  wrote:
>>> charles wrote:
>>> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 
>>> > 1987
>>> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall 
>>> > because, as
>>> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places 
>>> > which
>>> > were highly vulnerable to high winds.
>>
>>> That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with
>>> long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.
>>
>>That's what I told the story teller, but was thought to be crazy.
>
> For some reason, the general public seem convinced that different 
> channels come from different sites.
>
> *Years* after the VHF service from Lichfield closed down, people in 
> the West Midlands would insist that "ITV" came from it and that 
> Sutton Coldfield was "only for the BBC".   Some people still are, 
> including someone I know in the village of Shenstone, within sight 
> of both transmitters!

Well in the days when there were 'BBC transmitters' and 'IBA 
transmitters' to the non techie (read, interested) person it was an 
easy mistake for people and probably still make - I bet many don't 
know that the broadcasters don't own their own transmission equipment 
these days - cite how many seem to think that a"SKY" own a 
satellite...

>
> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal 
> comes from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>

Again this is understandable considering that the first British TV 
studio complex *did* (and still does) have a mast.

In article <g4ffem$uv8$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
	Jerry wrote:

> easy mistake for people and probably still make - I bet many don't 
> know that the broadcasters don't own their own transmission equipment 
> these days - cite how many seem to think that a"SKY" own a 
> satellite...

BSB used to own two, so on takeover Sky briefly did own two satellites.

-- 
Paul Martin

In article <g4ffem$uv8$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
   Jerry <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote:

> "Ian Jelf"  wrote in message 
> news:mSINupivtzaIFwf2@bluebadge.demon.co.uk...
> > In message , charles 
> >  writes
> >>In article <SLzak.101444$312.10061@newsfe12.ams2>,
> >>   Stuart  wrote:
> >>> charles wrote:
> >>> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of 
> >>> > 1987
> >>> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall 
> >>> > because, as
> >>> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places 
> >>> > which
> >>> > were highly vulnerable to high winds.
> >>
> >>> That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with
> >>> long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.
> >>
> >>That's what I told the story teller, but was thought to be crazy.
> >
> > For some reason, the general public seem convinced that different 
> > channels come from different sites.
> >
> > *Years* after the VHF service from Lichfield closed down, people in 
> > the West Midlands would insist that "ITV" came from it and that 
> > Sutton Coldfield was "only for the BBC".   Some people still are, 
> > including someone I know in the village of Shenstone, within sight 
> > of both transmitters!

> Well in the days when there were 'BBC transmitters' and 'IBA 
> transmitters' to the non techie (read, interested) person it was an 
> easy mistake for people and probably still make - I bet many don't 
> know that the broadcasters don't own their own transmission equipment 
> these days - cite how many seem to think that a"SKY" own a 
> satellite...

> >
> > Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal 
> > comes from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
> >

> Again this is understandable considering that the first British TV 
> studio complex *did* (and still does) have a mast. 

and the first purpose built radio studio building also had a mast, although
it was only a decorative feature.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In message <g4ffem$uv8$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Jerry 
<INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> writes
>
>"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message
>news:mSINupivtzaIFwf2@bluebadge.demon.co.uk...
>> In message , charles
>>  writes
>>>In article <SLzak.101444$312.10061@newsfe12.ams2>,
>>>   Stuart  wrote:
>>>> charles wrote:
>>>> > Yesterday, I was told in all seriousness that the great storm of
>>>> > 1987
>>>> > brought down all the Ch4 transmitters in Devon and Cornwall
>>>> > because, as
>>>> > later transmitters they had all been built in unsuitable places
>>>> > which
>>>> > were highly vulnerable to high winds.
>>>
>>>> That doesn't make sense as they were have been co-sited with
>>>> long-standing ITV and BBC transmitters.
>>>
>>>That's what I told the story teller, but was thought to be crazy.
>>
>> For some reason, the general public seem convinced that different
>> channels come from different sites.
>>
>> *Years* after the VHF service from Lichfield closed down, people in
>> the West Midlands would insist that "ITV" came from it and that
>> Sutton Coldfield was "only for the BBC".   Some people still are,
>> including someone I know in the village of Shenstone, within sight
>> of both transmitters!
>
>Well in the days when there were 'BBC transmitters' and 'IBA
>transmitters' to the non techie (read, interested) person it was an
>easy mistake for people and probably still make -

Yes, on reflection I was a bit patronising in my remarks there I 
suppose.   Not intended.   However, I was really reacting to Charles, 
the OP, being told that he "didn't know what [he] was talking about" by 
someone who didn't in fact know what *they* were talking about.


> I bet many don't
>know that the broadcasters don't own their own transmission equipment
>these days - cite how many seem to think that a"SKY" own a
>satellite...

I'd not thought of that but yes, I suppose people do.

>> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal
>> comes from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>>
>
>Again this is understandable considering that the first British TV
>studio complex *did* (and still does) have a mast.

I know.   I do a diversion on one of my walking tours just to show it to 
people and eulogise about it!   ;-)
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message 
news:mSINupivtzaIFwf2@bluebadge.demon.co.uk...

>
> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal comes 
> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!

Including many of the luvies that work in the industry.

Graham

"Paul Martin"  wrote in message 
news:slrng6mgu0.3gu.pm@thinkpad.nowster.org.uk...
> In article <g4ffem$uv8$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Jerry wrote:
>
>> easy mistake for people and probably still make - I bet many don't
>> know that the broadcasters don't own their own transmission 
>> equipment
>> these days - cite how many seem to think that a"SKY" own a
>> satellite...
>
> BSB used to own two, so on takeover Sky briefly did own two 
> satellites.
>

But by then they were "BSkyB" (only TA 'SKY'), so no, "SKY" has never 
owned any sattelite... :~P

The message 
from Ian Jelf  contains these words:

> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal comes 
> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!


I have also had people express surprise that there was a building at the
base of the "mast".

Mb

The message 
from charles  contains these words:

> > Again this is understandable considering that the first British TV 
> > studio complex *did* (and still does) have a mast. 

> and the first purpose built radio studio building also had a mast, although
> it was only a decorative feature.


TV - so presumably meant Alexandra Palace.

MB

"Ian Jelf"  wrote in message 
news:mSINupivtzaIFwf2@bluebadge.demon.co.uk...
> In message , charles 
>  writes
> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal comes 
> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!

I had a barney with a retired chiropodist who had settled in Yorkshire after 
living in Aberdeen. "How can this be a poor reception area? My reception in 
Scotland was fine and that's much further from London."

Bill

"MB" <MB@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:3130303030373135486B623D41@invalid.invalid...
> The message 
> from Ian Jelf  contains these words:
>
>> Indeed, a frightening number of people think that their tv signal comes
>> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>
>
> I have also had people express surprise that there was a building at the
> base of the "mast".

When I'm tempted to mock the public for its ignorance I just consider my own 
ignorance in other areas. Computing and health come to mind.

It is amusing though, isn't it? And also sometimes rather worrying. Anyone 
with a copy of What Satellite to mind might like to look at my comments on 
this subject on page 50-something.

Bill

"Bill Wright"  wrote in
news:v4WdnRyuyeDjD_bVnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@pipex.net: 
> 
> I had a barney with a retired chiropodist who had settled in Yorkshire
> after living in Aberdeen. "How can this be a poor reception area? My
> reception in Scotland was fine and that's much further from London."
> 
> Bill 
> 

I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV 
transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely 
nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the 
discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune 
his TV.

//Clive.

"Clive"  wrote in message 
news:Xns9AD05B374DAB9cashawbigfootcom@153.88.253.36...
> "Bill Wright"  wrote in
> news:v4WdnRyuyeDjD_bVnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@pipex.net:
>>
>> I had a barney with a retired chiropodist who had settled in Yorkshire
>> after living in Aberdeen. "How can this be a poor reception area? My
>> reception in Scotland was fine and that's much further from London."
>>
>> Bill
>>
>
> I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
> transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
> nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
> discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
> his TV.

Presumably, his refusal to listen is the reason he is so ignorant on this 
and probably many other matters. Oh, there are so many out there and seems 
the less they know, the more they Bull-shi* to compensate. I'm pretty stupid 
at times, but I listen and therefore learn.

Graham

Clive wrote:
> "Bill Wright"  wrote in
> news:v4WdnRyuyeDjD_bVnZ2dnUVZ8tXinZ2d@pipex.net: 
> 
>>I had a barney with a retired chiropodist who had settled in Yorkshire
>>after living in Aberdeen. "How can this be a poor reception area? My
>>reception in Scotland was fine and that's much further from London."
>>
>>Bill 
>>
> 
> 
> I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV 
> transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely 
> nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the 
> discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune 
> his TV.
> 
> //Clive.
> 
Not so much of a problem now when most teles and VCRs come up with 
autotune so one never knows what is happening
And so of course do DTT boxes (wish they wouldn't update my 'favourites' 
on a software update to include all the cr*p channels)

Mike

Clive wrote:

> I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV 
> transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely 
> nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the 
> discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune 
> his TV.

I had a colleague who bought a new TV, took it home, plugged in the aerial, 
switched on, and then phoned the shop to say it wasn't working, because 
pressing any button from 1 to 4 resulted in a blank screen.

I dare not tell you what their job was, and who they worked for !

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6d4c7lFpqhbU1@mid.individual.net...
> I had a colleague who bought a new TV, took it home, plugged in the 
> aerial, switched on, and then phoned the shop to say it wasn't working, 
> because pressing any button from 1 to 4 resulted in a blank screen.
>
> I dare not tell you what their job was, and who they worked for !

Oh, that would be either Akio Morita or Masaru Ibuka.

Bill

In message , Clive 
 writes
[]
>I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
>transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
>nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
>discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
>his TV.
[]
How on earth did he reconcile his belief with the latter observation? 
(I'm curious - it seems so obvious to us, but he must have had something 
in mind to explain the discrepancy.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

Who's General Failure & why's he reading my disk? (Stolen from another .sig)

In news:6d4c7lFpqhbU1@mid.individual.net,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: Clive wrote:
:
: > I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single
: > TV transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency.
: > Absolutely nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even
: > though the discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house
: > and had to retune his TV.
:
: I had a colleague who bought a new TV, took it home, plugged in the
: aerial, switched on, and then phoned the shop to say it wasn't
: working, because pressing any button from 1 to 4 resulted in a blank
: screen.
:
: I dare not tell you what their job was, and who they worked for !

I can hazard a guess..! But nowadays a new telly will auto-tune on first 
switch-on.

Ivor

"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote in 
news:mD2wSRPx2VbIFwXm@soft255.demon.co.uk:

> In message , Clive 
>  writes
> []
>>I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
>>transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
>>nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
>>discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
>>his TV.
> []
> How on earth did he reconcile his belief with the latter observation? 
> (I'm curious - it seems so obvious to us, but he must have had something 
> in mind to explain the discrepancy.)

Stubborness I guess, it was one of those conversations where I couldn't 
understand what angle he was coming from so was difficult to explain it to 
him so that he could understand it. He thought there was a fault on his TV 
that had caused it to "tune away from the BBC channel"

"Ivor Jones" <ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6d5rrhF117g2U1@mid.individual.net...
> In news:6d4c7lFpqhbU1@mid.individual.net,
> I can hazard a guess..! But nowadays a new telly will auto-tune on first
> switch-on.

Then you do it manually, often as not.

Bill

"Clive"  wrote in message 
news:Xns9AD15A31990AAcashawbigfootcom@153.88.253.36...
> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote in
> news:mD2wSRPx2VbIFwXm@soft255.demon.co.uk:
>
>> In message , Clive
>>  writes
>> []
>>>I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
>>>transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
>>>nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
>>>discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
>>>his TV.
>> []
>> How on earth did he reconcile his belief with the latter observation?
>> (I'm curious - it seems so obvious to us, but he must have had something
>> in mind to explain the discrepancy.)
>
> Stubborness I guess, it was one of those conversations where I couldn't
> understand what angle he was coming from so was difficult to explain it to
> him so that he could understand it. He thought there was a fault on his TV
> that had caused it to "tune away from the BBC channel"
>
Some people construct quite elaborate hypotheses to expalin their faulty 
reception. Theyu then contact the aerial man and start to explain the 
hypothesis, which is usually very long, often totally groundless, and 
sometimes quite bizairre. If it's so bad that you can't get on with fixing 
the fault because basically they won't let you do what's needed (because it 
doesn't accord with their theory) it can be a problem. On rare occasions 
I've had to say, half way through their recital, "Look, instead of telling 
me the cause of the trouble, just show me the fault, and let me take it from 
there."

I would imagine people who do difficult jobs, like doctors, must have a 
nightmare with people like that.

Bill

In message , Bill Wright 
 writes
>I would imagine people who do difficult jobs, like doctors, must have a 
>nightmare with people like that.

Tour Guides certainly do!   (And I'm not for a moment equating my work 
with that of a doctor.)
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:37:23 +0100, "Bill Wright"
 wrote:

>
>"Clive"  wrote in message 
>news:Xns9AD15A31990AAcashawbigfootcom@153.88.253.36...
>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote in
>> news:mD2wSRPx2VbIFwXm@soft255.demon.co.uk:
>>
>>> In message , Clive
>>>  writes
>>> []
>>>>I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
>>>>transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
>>>>nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
>>>>discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
>>>>his TV.
>>> []
>>> How on earth did he reconcile his belief with the latter observation?
>>> (I'm curious - it seems so obvious to us, but he must have had something
>>> in mind to explain the discrepancy.)
>>
>> Stubborness I guess, it was one of those conversations where I couldn't
>> understand what angle he was coming from so was difficult to explain it to
>> him so that he could understand it. He thought there was a fault on his TV
>> that had caused it to "tune away from the BBC channel"
>>
>Some people construct quite elaborate hypotheses to expalin their faulty 
>reception. Theyu then contact the aerial man and start to explain the 
>hypothesis, which is usually very long, often totally groundless, and 
>sometimes quite bizairre. If it's so bad that you can't get on with fixing 
>the fault because basically they won't let you do what's needed (because it 
>doesn't accord with their theory) it can be a problem. On rare occasions 
>I've had to say, half way through their recital, "Look, instead of telling 
>me the cause of the trouble, just show me the fault, and let me take it from 
>there."
>
>I would imagine people who do difficult jobs, like doctors, must have a 
>nightmare with people like that.
>
>Bill 
>
I was chatting to a bloke I took to hospital.  I picked him up from
Bourne in Lincs.  He bought a Freeview PVR ready for digital
switchover.  He reckoned he couldn't get Freeview where he lived until
switchover.  He also considered Freesat, but said he would lose 'Look
North'.  I really couldn't be arsed to explain it all to him.  BTW, he
had no aerial on his roof & it was a bungalow.  He may have got
Freeview with an outdoor aerial, but I don't know what Belmonts DTT is
like in Bourne.

Marky P.

In article , Marky P
 scribeth thus
>On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 19:37:23 +0100, "Bill Wright"
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Clive"  wrote in message 
>>news:Xns9AD15A31990AAcashawbigfootcom@153.88.253.36...
>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote in
>>> news:mD2wSRPx2VbIFwXm@soft255.demon.co.uk:
>>>
>>>> In message , Clive
>>>>  writes
>>>> []
>>>>>I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV
>>>>>transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely
>>>>>nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the
>>>>>discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune
>>>>>his TV.
>>>> []
>>>> How on earth did he reconcile his belief with the latter observation?
>>>> (I'm curious - it seems so obvious to us, but he must have had something
>>>> in mind to explain the discrepancy.)
>>>
>>> Stubborness I guess, it was one of those conversations where I couldn't
>>> understand what angle he was coming from so was difficult to explain it to
>>> him so that he could understand it. He thought there was a fault on his TV
>>> that had caused it to "tune away from the BBC channel"
>>>
>>Some people construct quite elaborate hypotheses to expalin their faulty 
>>reception. Theyu then contact the aerial man and start to explain the 
>>hypothesis, which is usually very long, often totally groundless, and 
>>sometimes quite bizairre. If it's so bad that you can't get on with fixing 
>>the fault because basically they won't let you do what's needed (because it 
>>doesn't accord with their theory) it can be a problem. On rare occasions 
>>I've had to say, half way through their recital, "Look, instead of telling 
>>me the cause of the trouble, just show me the fault, and let me take it from 
>>there."
>>
>>I would imagine people who do difficult jobs, like doctors, must have a 
>>nightmare with people like that.
>>
>>Bill 
>>
>I was chatting to a bloke I took to hospital.  I picked him up from
>Bourne in Lincs.  He bought a Freeview PVR ready for digital
>switchover.  He reckoned he couldn't get Freeview where he lived until
>switchover.  He also considered Freesat, but said he would lose 'Look
>North'.  I really couldn't be arsed to explain it all to him.  BTW, he
>had no aerial on his roof & it was a bungalow.  He may have got
>Freeview with an outdoor aerial, but I don't know what Belmonts DTT is
>like in Bourne.
>
>Marky P.
>

Rather good I should think .. all that flat earth out there:)...
-- 
Tony Sayer

> I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that this
> person is a primary school teacher.


Don't lose too much sleep.
She would no doubt have argued that the visible spectrum consisted
of  six (or seven) colours, and that static electricity was an entirely
different phenomenon to current electricity.
-- 
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
>> I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
>> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that this
>> person is a primary school teacher.
> 
> 
> Don't lose too much sleep.
> She would no doubt have argued that the visible spectrum consisted
> of  six (or seven) colours, and that static electricity was an entirely
> different phenomenon to current electricity.

Mind you, back in 1970 I returned to primary school after the hols, and our 
teacher pointed out of the window at the brand new Hannington TV mast, and 
asked if any of us knew what it was ? She was rather taken aback (and 
impressed I think) by my answer :-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In news:6dbud6F1qsgsU1@mid.individual.net,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: Graham. wrote:
: >> I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
: >> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me
: >> that this person is a primary school teacher.
: >
: >
: > Don't lose too much sleep.
: > She would no doubt have argued that the visible spectrum consisted
: > of  six (or seven) colours, and that static electricity was an
: > entirely different phenomenon to current electricity.
:
: Mind you, back in 1970 I returned to primary school after the hols,
: and our teacher pointed out of the window at the brand new Hannington
: TV mast, and asked if any of us knew what it was ? She was rather
: taken aback (and impressed I think) by my answer :-)

She didn't warn you of the dangers of all that "radiation" coming from it 
then..?!

Ivor

Ivor Jones wrote:
> In news:6dbud6F1qsgsU1@mid.individual.net,
> Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> typed, for some strange, 

> : Mind you, back in 1970 I returned to primary school after the hols,
> : and our teacher pointed out of the window at the brand new Hannington
> : TV mast, and asked if any of us knew what it was ? She was rather
> : taken aback (and impressed I think) by my answer :-)
> 
> She didn't warn you of the dangers of all that "radiation" coming from it 
> then..?!

Not with two major atomic bases both within a distance of five miles, RF 
radiation is for wimps !

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:6dbud6F1qsgsU1@mid.individual.net...
> Graham. wrote:
>>> I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
>>> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that 
>>> this
>>> person is a primary school teacher.
>>
>>
>> Don't lose too much sleep.
>> She would no doubt have argued that the visible spectrum consisted
>> of  six (or seven) colours, and that static electricity was an entirely
>> different phenomenon to current electricity.
>
> Mind you, back in 1970 I returned to primary school after the hols, and 
> our teacher pointed out of the window at the brand new Hannington TV mast, 
> and asked if any of us knew what it was ? She was rather taken aback (and 
> impressed I think) by my answer :-)
>
> -- 
> Mark
> Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In 1965 when I was 12 I took this picture of the just built
PO tower in Heaton Park Manchester and wrote an
essay on what it might be for.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/1965.jpg

Here is the same shot 40 years later.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/2005.jpg
-- 
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Graham. wrote:
> 
> In 1965 when I was 12 I took this picture of the just built
> PO tower in Heaton Park Manchester and wrote an
> essay on what it might be for.
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/1965.jpg
> 
> Here is the same shot 40 years later.
> 
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/2005.jpg

Amazing - all those years, and it's still leaning at the same angle :P

Andy

> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
That aerial isn't sic.

-- 
Graham.

%Profound_observation%

Clive wrote:

> 
> I had a barney with a colleague who was convinced that every single TV 
> transmitter in the UK transmitted on the exact same frequency. Absolutely 
> nothing I could say would convince him otherwise. Even though the 
> discussion had arisen from the fact he had moved house and had to retune 
> his TV.

He wasn't American was he? I ask because I read a conversation on the 
net once with someone from North America who couldn't understand how 
'channel 4' broadcast all over the country on 'channel 4'.

Over there, of course, the channel number in the TV station name relates 
to the frequency it's transmitted on rather than the preset on which it 
is stored

Graham. wrote:
> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:6dbud6F1qsgsU1@mid.individual.net...
>   
>> Graham. wrote:
>>     
>>>> I was told I didn't know what I was talking about since
>>>> "she", the speaker, was there at the time.  It's worrying to me that 
>>>> this
>>>> person is a primary school teacher.
>>>>         
>>> Don't lose too much sleep.
>>> She would no doubt have argued that the visible spectrum consisted
>>> of  six (or seven) colours, and that static electricity was an entirely
>>> different phenomenon to current electricity.
>>>       
>> Mind you, back in 1970 I returned to primary school after the hols, and 
>> our teacher pointed out of the window at the brand new Hannington TV mast, 
>> and asked if any of us knew what it was ? She was rather taken aback (and 
>> impressed I think) by my answer :-)
>>
>> -- 
>> Mark
>> Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.
>>     
>
> In 1965 when I was 12 I took this picture of the just built
> PO tower in Heaton Park Manchester and wrote an
> essay on what it might be for.
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/1965.jpg
>
> Here is the same shot 40 years later.
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/2005.jpg
>   
Amazing.. looks like it was then just a mid-point between Macclesfield 
Forest and Winter Hill?

A

"Stuart"  wrote in message 
news:n%cck.11594$jB5.3591@newsfe05.ams2...

<snip>
>
> He wasn't American was he? I ask because I read a conversation on 
> the net once with someone from North America who couldn't understand 
> how 'channel 4' broadcast all over the country on 'channel 4'.
>
> Over there, of course, the channel number in the TV station name 
> relates to the frequency it's transmitted on rather than the preset 
> on which it is stored

Or indeed being the *4th channel* (I once had Ch4 stored on the 5th 
preset, but then BBC1 was on the 2nd preset, due to a faulty 1st 
preset button - IYSWIM).... ;~)

In article <g4s9j4$omq$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk>,
	Andy Dee wrote:
> Graham. wrote:
>> "Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>> news:6dbud6F1qsgsU1@mid.individual.net...

>> In 1965 when I was 12 I took this picture of the just built
>> PO tower in Heaton Park Manchester and wrote an
>> essay on what it might be for.

> Amazing.. looks like it was then just a mid-point between Macclesfield 
> Forest and Winter Hill?

Read up on BACKBONE. The TV circuits were their secondary use.

-- 
Paul Martin

The message 
from Paul Martin  contains these words:

> > Amazing.. looks like it was then just a mid-point between Macclesfield 
> > Forest and Winter Hill?

> Read up on BACKBONE. The TV circuits were their secondary use.



http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/features/backbone/index.shtml

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 00:36:55 +0100, "Graham."  wrote:

>
>
>> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>That aerial isn't sic.

That's right.  It's perfectly healthy after a course of antibiotics
:-)

Marky P.

> In 1965 when I was 12 I took this picture of the just built
> PO tower in Heaton Park Manchester and wrote an
> essay on what it might be for.
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/1965.jpg
>
> Here is the same shot 40 years later.
>
> http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/infoweb/2005.jpg
> -- 
> Graham.
>

Dear Graham

I am currently redesigning my web site about the cold war public nuclear 
warning system and the United Kingdom Warning and Monitoring Organisation 
(UKWMO). Would it be possible to use your 1965 picture of Heaton Park on my 
site? It is an every clear example of the horn aerials used at the time. My 
own pictures have a clutter of dishes too.
http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/index.htm

The BT microwave system in those early days is explained here.
http://www.subbrit.org.uk/rsg/features/backbone/index.shtml

Thanks in Anticipation
Steve

contact (http://www.ringbell.co.uk/ukwmo/author.htm)

<uk.tech.broadcast>
<Duncan Spencer>
<Tue, 8 Jul 2008 09:53:12 +0100>
<48732afa$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>

> I am currently redesigning my web site about the cold war public nuclear 
> warning system and the United Kingdom Warning and Monitoring Organisation 
> (UKWMO). 
> 

Adding a couple of blank lines at the bottom of each page is usually a 
good idea - unless you have good reason not to .

(just a first impression when i had a quick surf at your website)


-- 
www.krustov.co.uk

In message <g4rkup$9gg$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Graham. 
 writes
>
>
>> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>That aerial isn't sic.

Yes, I know.   My reason for the "sic" was that the piece of metal they 
were call in "aerial" is nothing of the sort;  it's a transmitter.
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In article ,
	Ian Jelf wrote:
> In message <g4rkup$9gg$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Graham. 
>  writes
>>
>>
>>> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>>That aerial isn't sic.

> Yes, I know.   My reason for the "sic" was that the piece of metal they 
> were call in "aerial" is nothing of the sort;  it's a transmitter.

A transmitter is more than an aerial (viz. modulator, power amp,
matching coils, interconnecting wiring), but does have an aerial (or to
some, antenna) as the device which converts the electronic excursions
into electromagnetic ripples.

You don't call a receiving aerial a "receiver" do you?

-- 
Paul Martin

In message , Paul Martin 
 writes
>In article ,
>       Ian Jelf wrote:
>> In message <g4rkup$9gg$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Graham.
>>  writes
>>>
>>>
>>>> from an "aerial" (sic) on top of the relevant studio!
>>>That aerial isn't sic.
>
>> Yes, I know.   My reason for the "sic" was that the piece of metal they
>> were call in "aerial" is nothing of the sort;  it's a transmitter.
>
>A transmitter is more than an aerial (viz. modulator, power amp,
>matching coils, interconnecting wiring), but does have an aerial (or to
>some, antenna) as the device which converts the electronic excursions
>into electromagnetic ripples.

Okay, I put my hands up to a terminology error on my part!   ;-)   I 
wouldn't have used the term "aerial" in the way you describe there but 
then what would I know?   <bg>

>You don't call a receiving aerial a "receiver" do you?
No.   (Although I do still call a television set a "receiver", which 
marks me old as an Old Git I suppose.)
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk

In news:QvoQhFK9QkeIFwr3@bluebadge.demon.co.uk,
Ian Jelf  typed, for some strange, unexplained 
reason:
: In message , Paul Martin
:  writes

: >You don't call a receiving aerial a "receiver" do you?

: No.   (Although I do still call a television set a "receiver", which
: marks me old as an Old Git I suppose.)

Hmm. What do you call a radio (receiver, not transmitter <g>)

Ivor

In message , Ivor Jones 
<ivor@thisaddressis.invalid> writes
>In news:QvoQhFK9QkeIFwr3@bluebadge.demon.co.uk,
>Ian Jelf  typed, for some strange, unexplained
>reason:
>: In message , Paul Martin
>:  writes
>
>: >You don't call a receiving aerial a "receiver" do you?
>
>: No.   (Although I do still call a television set a "receiver", which
>: marks me old as an Old Git I suppose.)
>
>Hmm. What do you call a radio (receiver, not transmitter <g>)

"The Wireless".......   ;-)
-- 
Ian Jelf, MITG
Birmingham, UK

Registered Blue Badge Tourist Guide for London and the Heart of England
http://www.bluebadge.demon.co.uk