Anyone got an idea of where I can get a cheap/simple box with chroma 
tweaks (rather than make one with a trio of 100ohm or so pots!!)?

Its for a relation who has a Hummax PVR which gives out horribly 
oversaturated/orange pictures and his clever (???) tele won't allow 
setting changes on the SCART i/p (like quite a few I think) as it 
assumes SCART RGB is always right.

Doing a web search goes to very expensive boxes (lektrokits etc) around 
£100.

Nothing in Maplin or CPC either.

Mike

(Who used to build audio and video equalisers for GPO lines/coax - so 
not totally incompetant!! - though not wanting to use LD coils or wind 
Vincors or coils for Cauer equalisers)

In article ,
   m  wrote:
> Anyone got an idea of where I can get a cheap/simple box with chroma 
> tweaks (rather than make one with a trio of 100ohm or so pots!!)?

> Its for a relation who has a Hummax PVR which gives out horribly 
> oversaturated/orange pictures and his clever (???) tele won't allow 
> setting changes on the SCART i/p (like quite a few I think) as it 
> assumes SCART RGB is always right.

> Doing a web search goes to very expensive boxes (lektrokits etc) around 
> £100.

That's because simple pots won't alter the saturation - just the gain or
brightness.

Are you certain it's not just the progs you watch - some things, mainly of
US origin - are over saturated.

-- 
*Honk if you love peace and quiet.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4fa253c3cadave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article ,
>   m  wrote:
>> Anyone got an idea of where I can get a cheap/simple box with chroma
>> tweaks (rather than make one with a trio of 100ohm or so pots!!)?
>
>> Its for a relation who has a Hummax PVR which gives out horribly
>> oversaturated/orange pictures and his clever (???) tele won't allow
>> setting changes on the SCART i/p (like quite a few I think) as it
>> assumes SCART RGB is always right.
>
>> Doing a web search goes to very expensive boxes (lektrokits etc) around
>> £100.
>
> That's because simple pots won't alter the saturation - just the gain or
> brightness.
>
> Are you certain it's not just the progs you watch - some things, mainly of
> US origin - are over saturated.

Well my Pioneer OnDigital (Freeview) box has very saturated colour on the 
RGB outputs compared with the composite and the RF outputs - either that or 
else my Panasonic TV displays RGB as more saturated. Unlike the OP's TV, I 
can adjust the saturation even for RGB, but the correct setting for RGB 
leaves composite/RF/off-air channels almost monochrome.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" 
 writes
>In article ,
>   m  wrote:
>> Anyone got an idea of where I can get a cheap/simple box with chroma
>> tweaks (rather than make one with a trio of 100ohm or so pots!!)?
>
>> Its for a relation who has a Hummax PVR which gives out horribly
>> oversaturated/orange pictures and his clever (???) tele won't allow
>> setting changes on the SCART i/p (like quite a few I think) as it
>> assumes SCART RGB is always right.
>
>> Doing a web search goes to very expensive boxes (lektrokits etc) around
>> £100.
>
>That's because simple pots won't alter the saturation - just the gain or
>brightness.

IANA video engineer, but surely the idea would be to add colour to the 
other two (x3) giving desaturation? It would be a bit more elaborate 
than a star mixer, I can see, but it shouldn't be too tricky, or should 
it? What am I missing?

>Are you certain it's not just the progs you watch - some things, mainly of
>US origin - are over saturated.

Fair point. US productions seem to spend far more on a 'look' than ever 
we do here. CSI Miami is notable for this (read 'horrible' -- 
half-tobacco, anyone?), but so is NCIS, Shark, and most of the rest of 
their contemporaries in that genre. I don't hate it, but it's often not 
very subtle, and it gets wearing.



Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

In article <xYWdnWXR77W4FK_VRVnyugA@posted.plusnet>,
   Mortimer  wrote:
> Well my Pioneer OnDigital (Freeview) box has very saturated colour on
> the RGB outputs compared with the composite and the RF outputs - either
> that or else my Panasonic TV displays RGB as more saturated. Unlike the
> OP's TV, I can adjust the saturation even for RGB, but the correct
> setting for RGB leaves composite/RF/off-air channels almost monochrome. 

Could be a problem with either the STB or TV. My combination of Toppy and
Sagem DLP shows no such disparity.

It's possible the 'AGC' (in most TVs) is reacting to slightly high levels
on RGB and increasing the saturation to compensate - my original Ondodgy
box/Philips Matchline was like this. Attenuating the RGB to the correct
level sorted it.

-- 
*Organized Crime Is Alive And Well; It's Called Auto Insurance. *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article ,
   SpamTrapSeeSig  wrote:
> >Are you certain it's not just the progs you watch - some things, mainly of
> >US origin - are over saturated.

> Fair point. US productions seem to spend far more on a 'look' than ever 
> we do here. CSI Miami is notable for this (read 'horrible' -- 
> half-tobacco, anyone?), but so is NCIS, Shark, and most of the rest of 
> their contemporaries in that genre. I don't hate it, but it's often not 
> very subtle, and it gets wearing.

What grates more to me is the dreadful radio mic sound on some of these -
Shark being the worst offender. If I were dubbing it I'd ADR most of it.
Which is why I'm not dubbing. ;-)  

CSI is usually not so bad.

-- 
*Money isn't everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article , "Dave Plowman (News)" 
 writes
>In article ,
>   SpamTrapSeeSig  wrote:
>> >Are you certain it's not just the progs you watch - some things, mainly of
>> >US origin - are over saturated.
>
>> Fair point. US productions seem to spend far more on a 'look' than ever
>> we do here. CSI Miami is notable for this (read 'horrible' --
>> half-tobacco, anyone?), but so is NCIS, Shark, and most of the rest of
>> their contemporaries in that genre. I don't hate it, but it's often not
>> very subtle, and it gets wearing.
>
>What grates more to me is the dreadful radio mic sound on some of these -
>Shark being the worst offender. If I were dubbing it I'd ADR most of it.
>Which is why I'm not dubbing. ;-)

I don't usually listen to Shark on the decent kit, as it's also 
compressed to somewhere & back too, twice (perhaps that's done on the 
radio mics to save cost :-/ ).

It is horribly lacking in any sort of real acoustics too. 9/10ths of it 
is actors declaiming, and they don't do the walk'n'talks anything like 
as well as TWW etc. I think you're right - they just use the trams or 
whatever and probably don't even bother with a pole operator ("they get 
in shot too much, anyway"). The money goes into the "talents'" 
contracts.

Shame about Studio 60 though -- it looked like it might have got good 
over time, but I think it was too novel for US audiences and too near 
the knuckle for the networks, and too many of the scripts were just 
poor. Sound was nice though, considering, and that set really was 
amazing.


Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

"m"  wrote in message 
news:483214EA.7050107@tiscali.co.uk...
> Anyone got an idea of where I can get a cheap/simple box with chroma 
> tweaks (rather than make one with a trio of 100ohm or so pots!!)?
>
> Its for a relation who has a Hummax PVR which gives out horribly 
> oversaturated/orange pictures and his clever (???) tele won't allow 
> setting changes on the SCART i/p (like quite a few I think) as it assumes 
> SCART RGB is always right.
>
> Doing a web search goes to very expensive boxes (lektrokits etc) around 
> £100.
>
> Nothing in Maplin or CPC either.
>
> Mike
>
> (Who used to build audio and video equalisers for GPO lines/coax - so not 
> totally incompetant!! - though not wanting to use LD coils or wind Vincors 
> or coils for Cauer equalisers)

I think one of these Cox RGB encoders should do it. This one on ebay is too 
expensive 150073280609, but I have bought two for under a fiver.

Graham

In article <xYWdnWXR77W4FK_VRVnyugA@posted.plusnet>, Mortimer wrote:
> Well my Pioneer OnDigital (Freeview) box has very saturated colour on 
the 
> RGB outputs compared with the composite and the RF outputs

It's the other way round. It's the RF/composite output that's DEsaturated. 
Luminance and chrominance go through different types of signal paths and 
are subject to different losses, unlike digital RGB where there is no 
reason for luminance and chrominance to be amplified differently unless 
it's being done deliberately. Over the years we've got used to the various 
analogue losses that can cause desaturation, to the extent that when we 
see the real thing it looks wrong.

>- either that or 
> else my Panasonic TV displays RGB as more saturated.

Unless they've gone to the trouble of including circuitry to matrix the 
RGB signals into separate luminance and chrominance signals just to 
provide a saturation control, RGB will simply go straight through as RGB 
without the TV altering the saturation at all. A few TV sets do this, but 
it's extra trouble for the rather dubious "advantage" of being able to 
adjust the saturation until it's wrong.

Rod.

To Dave P and Rod S

No it's definitely a problem with the Humax combination as his Wee box 
(see here btw:-  http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/05/20/place_to_pee/)
looks (reasonably) OK.

He doesn't seem to have any analogue tuned in (and I wasn't going to play!!)

All the PAL comments bits etc still don't get around the problem that 
the stupid Tele won't let you do anything to the SCART input signal path.

I take the point about RGB going 'straight through'. Just another 
backward step in the present day 'Quality TV' (ha ha)Though I spose on 
most LCDs or Plasmas the piccy is so dreadful that it doesn't really matter.

Mike



Roderick Stewart wrote:
> In article <xYWdnWXR77W4FK_VRVnyugA@posted.plusnet>, Mortimer wrote:
> 
>>Well my Pioneer OnDigital (Freeview) box has very saturated colour on 
> 
> the 
> 
>>RGB outputs compared with the composite and the RF outputs
> 
> 
> It's the other way round. It's the RF/composite output that's DEsaturated. 
> Luminance and chrominance go through different types of signal paths and 
> are subject to different losses, unlike digital RGB where there is no 
> reason for luminance and chrominance to be amplified differently unless 
> it's being done deliberately. Over the years we've got used to the various 
> analogue losses that can cause desaturation, to the extent that when we 
> see the real thing it looks wrong.
> 
> 
>>- either that or 
>>else my Panasonic TV displays RGB as more saturated.
> 
> 
> Unless they've gone to the trouble of including circuitry to matrix the 
> RGB signals into separate luminance and chrominance signals just to 
> provide a saturation control, RGB will simply go straight through as RGB 
> without the TV altering the saturation at all. A few TV sets do this, but 
> it's extra trouble for the rather dubious "advantage" of being able to 
> adjust the saturation until it's wrong.
> 
> Rod.
>

m wrote:
  > (Who used to build audio and video equalisers for GPO lines/coax - so
> not totally incompetant!! - though not wanting to use LD coils or wind 
> Vincors or coils for Cauer equalisers)
> 

BBC Plymouth & Manchester will be moving soon.   Look out for redundant 
Bodes?

;-)

Richard

Dickie mint wrote:
> m wrote:
>  > (Who used to build audio and video equalisers for GPO lines/coax - so
> 
>> not totally incompetant!! - though not wanting to use LD coils or wind 
>> Vincors or coils for Cauer equalisers)
>>
> 
> BBC Plymouth & Manchester will be moving soon.   Look out for redundant 
> Bodes?
> 
> ;-)
> 
> Richard

Yeh but trying to get three (don't forget it's in RGB form) under the 
nice glass shelf could be a problem
Now three 'fairy fingers' boxes might be easier - tho I could never get 
the hang of those!)

Mike

m wrote:
> 
> 
> Dickie mint wrote:
>> m wrote:
>>  > (Who used to build audio and video equalisers for GPO lines/coax - so
>>
>>> not totally incompetant!! - though not wanting to use LD coils or 
>>> wind Vincors or coils for Cauer equalisers)
>>>
>>
>> BBC Plymouth & Manchester will be moving soon.   Look out for 
>> redundant Bodes?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Richard
> 
> Yeh but trying to get three (don't forget it's in RGB form) under the 
> nice glass shelf could be a problem
> Now three 'fairy fingers' boxes might be easier - tho I could never get 
> the hang of those!)
> 
> Mike
> 
Ah! I learned under the guidance of the great Frank Rice!

He let me tweak a TV Theatre - TC video  -  then did it properly himself 
saying he was just trimming it a bit!

Richard