Hi:

Another small dose of London local news this afternoon. The little
snippit (?preview, ?summary) immediately after the main News starts at
1300 was London's, not Bristol's. That makes three this month so far.

I was accused of going OTT and was challenged to produce evidence of
drop-outs instead of "vague generalisations". Hence this post -- and no
doubt more to come before the end of the month. And I don't watch 24/7,
so I probably miss some.

Hugh

-- 

Hugh Newbury

Running Linux Suse 10.1 in deepest Dorset

"Hugh Newbury"  wrote in message 
news:68qtjcF2uhd17U1@mid.individual.net...
> Hi:
>
> Another small dose of <snip>

Then complain direct to the BBC and stop your continual f*cking 
ranting here!

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:g09g0v$pco$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "Hugh Newbury"  wrote in message
> news:68qtjcF2uhd17U1@mid.individual.net...
> > Hi:
> >
> > Another small dose of <snip>
>
> Then complain direct to the BBC and stop your continual f*cking
> ranting here!

A bit uncalled for I think. This is a public newsgroup after all and he's
post is certainly not off topic for uk.tech.broadcast.

John.

"John" <john> wrote in message 
news:lqOdnfGaNekSGLTVnZ2dnUVZ8sHinZ2d@posted.plusnet...
> ":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
> news:g09g0v$pco$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "Hugh Newbury"  wrote in message
>> news:68qtjcF2uhd17U1@mid.individual.net...
>> > Hi:
>> >
>> > Another small dose of <snip>
>>
>> Then complain direct to the BBC and stop your continual f*cking
>> ranting here!
>
> A bit uncalled for I think. This is a public newsgroup after all and 
> he's
> post is certainly not off topic for uk.tech.broadcast.
>

Indeed, but this group is not 
uk.tech.broadcast.bbc.official-complaints, the point is that the OP 
has already complained about this problem here already so a/. why 
start a new thread (why not make further comments within that existing 
thread) and b/. why carry on complaining here when it's obvious that 
this group can't sort the problem - unless his intensions were nothing 
more than a wish to 'rant'. As I said, he would do far better by 
complaining direct to the BBC than here...

On Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:18 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:

> As I said, he would do far better by complaining direct to the BBC than 
> here... 

Knowing who lurks in here a complaint mentioned here about the West Region 
is pretty damn direct. Probably have more effect that trying to get a 
"customer services" type to understand or pass to the correct people the 
complaint.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message
news:g0c2mu$lbt$1@registered.motzarella.org...

> Indeed, but this group is not
> uk.tech.broadcast.bbc.official-complaints

Maybe we should start a new NG :)

In article , Dave 
Liquorice  writes
>On Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:18 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:
>
>> As I said, he would do far better by complaining direct to the BBC than
>> here...
>
>Knowing who lurks in here a complaint mentioned here about the West Region
>is pretty damn direct. Probably have more effect that trying to get a
>"customer services" type to understand or pass to the correct people the
>complaint.

True enough, but this *can't* be regional, otherwise it would be in the 
local papers (who love to document the BBC coming a cropper). I note 
also that comments about marginal reception in North Dorset and how to 
find out what to point RX aerials at haven't really been followed up 
either. Is the OP certain that his kit isn't faulty or badly set up?

There was also the unofficial comment that there _hasn't_ been an 
indication of a fault from other sources either (apart from one instance 
of what seems to have been an operational cock-up).

Before you ask, no, I couldn't be persuaded to watch breakfast telly to 
check, even for money.

If BBC comms dept. still existed, its motto would still be "It's all 
right leaving me!"

Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k0tl841.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 13:41:18 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:
>
>> As I said, he would do far better by complaining direct to the BBC 
>> than
>> here...
>
> Knowing who lurks in here a complaint mentioned here about the West 
> Region
> is pretty damn direct. Probably have more effect that trying to get 
> a
> "customer services" type to understand or pass to the correct people 
> the
> complaint.
>

So why hasn't it been 'Fixed'?...

On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:12:25 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
 wrote:

>True enough, but this *can't* be regional, otherwise it would be in the 
>local papers (who love to document the BBC coming a cropper). I note 
>also that comments about marginal reception in North Dorset and how to 
>find out what to point RX aerials at haven't really been followed up 
>either. Is the OP certain that his kit isn't faulty or badly set up?

How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
regional opt out? 
--

In article ,
   Zero Tolerance  wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:12:25 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
>  wrote:

> >True enough, but this *can't* be regional, otherwise it would be in the 
> >local papers (who love to document the BBC coming a cropper). I note 
> >also that comments about marginal reception in North Dorset and how to 
> >find out what to point RX aerials at haven't really been followed up 
> >either. Is the OP certain that his kit isn't faulty or badly set up?

> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
> regional opt out? 

I can remember, in Balham, moving a whip aerial from VP to HP and getting a
change of programme.  Don't ask which the transmitters were, I can't
remember.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

In article , Zero Tolerance 
 writes
>On Tue, 13 May 2008 15:12:25 GMT, SpamTrapSeeSig
> wrote:
>
>>True enough, but this *can't* be regional, otherwise it would be in the
>>local papers (who love to document the BBC coming a cropper). I note
>>also that comments about marginal reception in North Dorset and how to
>>find out what to point RX aerials at haven't really been followed up
>>either. Is the OP certain that his kit isn't faulty or badly set up?
>
>How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
>in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
>regional opt out?

Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.

Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> In article , Zero Tolerance 

>> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
>> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
>> regional opt out?
> 
> Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.

Would have to be very iffy, considering BBC 1 Mendip is on Ch 58, and BBC 1 
Crystal Palace is on Ch 26, and 90 degs off beam in Dorset ! Unless you're 
suggesting it's managing to get swamped out all the way down there by the 65 
watts ERP worth of BBC 1 from Ally Pally    ;-) ?


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver 
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>> In article , Zero Tolerance
>
>>> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
>>> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
>>> regional opt out?
>>  Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.
>
>Would have to be very iffy, considering BBC 1 Mendip is on Ch 58, and 
>BBC 1 Crystal Palace is on Ch 26, and 90 degs off beam in Dorset ! 
>Unless you're suggesting it's managing to get swamped out all the way 
>down there by the 65 watts ERP worth of BBC 1 from Ally Pally    ;-) ?

Nah, repeaters, not main masts.

Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver 
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>> SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>>> In article , Zero Tolerance
>>
>>>> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
>>>> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
>>>> regional opt out?
>>>  Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.
>>
>> Would have to be very iffy, considering BBC 1 Mendip is on Ch 58, and 
>> BBC 1 Crystal Palace is on Ch 26, and 90 degs off beam in Dorset ! 
>> Unless you're suggesting it's managing to get swamped out all the way 
>> down there by the 65 watts ERP worth of BBC 1 from Ally Pally    ;-) ?
> 
> Nah, repeaters, not main masts.

There are no repeaters in Dorset on Ch 26, because BBC 2 Stockland Hill uses 
that allocation. I really can't see how BBC 1 CP could replace BBC 1 Mendip, 
either through a relay or directly ?


-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 16:44:09 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:

> So why hasn't it been 'Fixed'?... 

Because the fault is most likely human not technical.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k0u6093.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 16:44:09 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:
>
>> So why hasn't it been 'Fixed'?...
>
> Because the fault is most likely human not technical.
>

What difference does that make?!

On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:36:28 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:

> > Because the fault is most likely human not technical.
> 
> What difference does that make?! 

You can't fix humans with a simple board swap or reboot. Tell a human it's 
at fault and it'll go off in huff and be even more faulty.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

In article , Mark Carver 
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>> In article , Mark Carver 
>><mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>>> SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
>>>> In article , Zero Tolerance
>>>
>>>>> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
>>>>> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
>>>>> regional opt out?
>>>>  Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.
>>>
>>> Would have to be very iffy, considering BBC 1 Mendip is on Ch 58, 
>>>and  BBC 1 Crystal Palace is on Ch 26, and 90 degs off beam in Dorset 
>>>!  Unless you're suggesting it's managing to get swamped out all the 
>>>way  down there by the 65 watts ERP worth of BBC 1 from Ally Pally ;-) ?
>>  Nah, repeaters, not main masts.
>
>There are no repeaters in Dorset on Ch 26, because BBC 2 Stockland Hill 
>uses that allocation. I really can't see how BBC 1 CP could replace BBC 
>1 Mendip, either through a relay or directly ?

Neither can I, from this distance. It appears to be local however, and I 
wouldn't rule anything out without more detail. I'd have thought CH26 to 
be irrelevant anyway. Something is apparently getting a London feed when 
it shouldn't, but it's unclear what the something is (and it may be the 
RX kit including the aerial that's the issue). One thing is clear 
though: it is almost certainly not Mendip, otherwise there would be a 
lot of fuss about it elsewhere, which there apparently isn't.



Regards,

Simonm.

-- 
simonm|at|muircom|dot|demon|.|c|oh|dot|u|kay
SIMON MUIR, BRISTOL UK
EUROPEANS AGAINST THE EU                   http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/
GT250A'76  R80/RT'86  110CSW TDi'88  www.kc3ltd.co.uk/profile/eurofollie/

"charles"  wrote in message 
news:4f9eee21fccharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> In article ,
> I can remember, in Balham, moving a whip aerial from VP to HP and getting 
> a
> change of programme.  Don't ask which the transmitters were, I can't
> remember.

Ayup Charles! Have you got over your trip to the Grim North?

Round here you can change polarity and get a different mux!

Bill

In news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k0u9p11.pminews@srv1.howhill.net,
Dave Liquorice  typed, for some strange, 
unexplained reason:
: On Tue, 13 May 2008 22:36:28 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:
:
: > > Because the fault is most likely human not technical.
: >
: > What difference does that make?!
:
: You can't fix humans with a simple board swap or reboot. Tell a human
: it's at fault and it'll go off in huff and be even more faulty.

Sounds like my cat ;-)

Ivor

In article ,
   Bill Wright  wrote:

> "charles"  wrote in message 
> news:4f9eee21fccharles@charleshope.demon.co.uk...
> > In article , I can remember, in
> > Balham, moving a whip aerial from VP to HP and getting a change of
> > programme.  Don't ask which the transmitters were, I can't remember.

> Ayup Charles! Have you got over your trip to the Grim North?

it wasn't really 'north' - only about halfway home.


> Round here you can change polarity and get a different mux!

>

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver 
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes

>> There are no repeaters in Dorset on Ch 26, because BBC 2 Stockland 
>> Hill uses that allocation. I really can't see how BBC 1 CP could 
>> replace BBC 1 Mendip, either through a relay or directly ?
> 
> Neither can I, from this distance. It appears to be local however, and I 
> wouldn't rule anything out without more detail. I'd have thought CH26 to 
> be irrelevant anyway. Something is apparently getting a London feed when 
> it shouldn't, but it's unclear what the something is (and it may be the 
> RX kit including the aerial that's the issue). One thing is clear 
> though: it is almost certainly not Mendip, otherwise there would be a 
> lot of fuss about it elsewhere, which there apparently isn't.

Such effects have happened here in Hannington land, where that transmitter has 
dropped its normal RBL feed from Rowridge, and switched to RBS from Crystal 
Palace, which during South Today results in the same effect as being described 
by the OP. There's no fuss about it (except from me).   ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

The message 
from Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> contains these words:

> SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> > In article , Mark Carver 
> > <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >> SpamTrapSeeSig wrote:
> >>> In article , Zero Tolerance
> >>
> >>>> How exactly would faulty or badly set up *reception* equipment result
> >>>> in someone occasionally receiving BBC London for part or all of a
> >>>> regional opt out?
> >>>  Co-channel? It may be an iffy repeater somewhere too, obviously.
> >>
> >> Would have to be very iffy, considering BBC 1 Mendip is on Ch 58, and 
> >> BBC 1 Crystal Palace is on Ch 26, and 90 degs off beam in Dorset ! 
> >> Unless you're suggesting it's managing to get swamped out all the way 
> >> down there by the 65 watts ERP worth of BBC 1 from Ally Pally    ;-) ?
> > 
> > Nah, repeaters, not main masts.

> There are no repeaters in Dorset on Ch 26, because BBC 2 Stockland
> Hill uses 
> that allocation. I really can't see how BBC 1 CP could replace BBC 1
> Mendip, 
> either through a relay or directly ?


Many years ago I was working at Redruth soon after the UHF started up
there.  One day one of the stations feeding Redruth went to "cut-back",
we noticed the incoming signal degraded slightly briefly instead of a
period of noise.  We made a few enquiries and decided that we had been
RBR Bilsdale briefly.  I doubt whether most viewers would have noticed
anything unusual.

MB

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
news:68vff0F2vhhdaU1@mid.individual.net...
<snip>
> Palace, which during South Today results in the same effect as being 
> described by the OP. There's no fuss about it (except from me). 
> ;-)
>

Most people probably consider it an improvement!

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k0u9p11.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
<snip>
>
> You can't fix humans with a simple board swap or reboot. Tell a 
> human it's
> at fault and it'll go off in huff and be even more faulty.
>

Talk about P45's soon sorts that out....

MB wrote:

> Many years ago I was working at Redruth soon after the UHF started up
> there.  One day one of the stations feeding Redruth went to "cut-back",
> we noticed the incoming signal degraded slightly briefly instead of a
> period of noise.  We made a few enquiries and decided that we had been
> RBR Bilsdale briefly.  I doubt whether most viewers would have noticed
> anything unusual.

Are you sure it wasn't RBR'ing Belmont, rather than Bilsdale ?

Redruth is RBL fed from Caradon Hill. Caradon and Belmont share the same 
channels, and from Redruth both stations are on almost the same bearing. 
I'm told that Belmont often causes problems for Redruth during 'lift' 
conditions for that reason.

If Caradon were to drop its carrier during such conditions, you'd get 
exactly the effect you noticed.

On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:37:50 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:

>> You can't fix humans with a simple board swap or reboot. Tell a 
>> human it's
>> at fault and it'll go off in huff and be even more faulty.
> 
> Talk about P45's soon sorts that out.... 

If only it was that easy to give someone the boot.

-- 
Cheers
Dave.

"Dave Liquorice"  wrote in message 
news:nyyfbegfubjuvyypbz.k0v2is0.pminews@srv1.howhill.net...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 08:37:50 +0100, :Jerry: wrote:
>
>>> You can't fix humans with a simple board swap or reboot. Tell a
>>> human it's
>>> at fault and it'll go off in huff and be even more faulty.
>>
>> Talk about P45's soon sorts that out....
>
> If only it was that easy to give someone the boot.
>

Then the person needs to be transferred to other duties, are you 
seriously suggesting that if (say) a camera operator was consistently 
framing out of focus shots nothing could/would be done [1], how is the 
TX side of things any different?

[1] come to think of it, the CO would get transferred to kids TV and 
given a pay rise for his/her artistic style! :~o

The message 
from Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> contains these words:

> MB wrote:

> > Many years ago I was working at Redruth soon after the UHF started up
> > there.  One day one of the stations feeding Redruth went to "cut-back",
> > we noticed the incoming signal degraded slightly briefly instead of a
> > period of noise.  We made a few enquiries and decided that we had been
> > RBR Bilsdale briefly.  I doubt whether most viewers would have noticed
> > anything unusual.

> Are you sure it wasn't RBR'ing Belmont, rather than Bilsdale ?

> Redruth is RBL fed from Caradon Hill. Caradon and Belmont share the same 
> channels, and from Redruth both stations are on almost the same bearing. 
> I'm told that Belmont often causes problems for Redruth during 'lift' 
> conditions for that reason.

> If Caradon were to drop its carrier during such conditions, you'd get 
> exactly the effect you noticed.

That would be it.

MB

":Jerry:" <INVALID@INVALID.INVALID> wrote in message 
news:g0ebri$lvg$1@registered.motzarella.org...
> Then the person needs to be transferred to other duties, are you seriously 
> suggesting that if (say) a camera operator was consistently framing out of 
> focus shots nothing could/would be done [1], how is the TX side of things 
> any different?

My sister was declared incompetent as a teacher, mostly on the grounds of 
poor classroom discipline. She was sacked, and then immediately taken on as 
a supply teacher by the same employer, doing the same job for more money. 
Ever since she has been in great demand for 'supply' because she has a 
reputation for being able to control difficult classes. It's beyond me. The 
only thing is, the sackings came to three or four teachers at once in the 
same school, as the result of an OFSTED inspection. Strange how one school 
had so many hopeless teachers. For the sake of accuracy I must say that in 
some cases they were 'encouraged to resign'.

Bill

On Mon, 12 May 2008 14:04:47 +0100, Hugh Newbury 
wrote:

> Another small dose of London local news this afternoon. The little
> snippit (?preview, ?summary) immediately after the main News starts at
> 1300 was London's, not Bristol's. That makes three this month so far.

How much is a snippet? Presumably on DTT again? I guess you mean the whole
15 seconds or so of headlines, but I find no evidence on analogue.
DTT has always had random problems with failing to opt. Maybe it'll get better
when Central Coding and Multiplexing comes in.

> I was accused of going OTT and was challenged to produce evidence of
> drop-outs instead of "vague generalisations".

But this was not a historical one which you were complaining about.

On Wed, 14 May 2008 23:36:31 +0100, Bill Wright 
wrote:

> My sister was declared incompetent as a teacher, mostly on the grounds of 
> poor classroom discipline. She was sacked, and then immediately taken on as 
> a supply teacher by the same employer, doing the same job for more money. 
> Ever since she has been in great demand for 'supply' because she has a 
> reputation for being able to control difficult classes. It's beyond me. The 
> only thing is, the sackings came to three or four teachers at once in the 
> same school, as the result of an OFSTED inspection. Strange how one school 
> had so many hopeless teachers. For the sake of accuracy I must say that in 
> some cases they were 'encouraged to resign'.

Because something has to be 'seen to be done' to justify the existence of
beings higher up in the food chain.
The fact that it makes no sense at all, costs more money and doesn't get to
the root of the problem is irrelevant.
Such management stupidity goes on in all large organisations. It's usually
the people at the bottom who have to bear the brunt of this and it's
usually unjustified.