From Today's Guardian:-

Is DAB radio the next Betamax?

John Plunkett guardian.co.uk, Tuesday January 29 2008


Digital audio broadcasting (DAB) may end up to radio what Betamax was to 
video, warns a report published today.

The report, by media and telecoms specialist Enders Analysis, said the 
launch of the second national commercial digital radio multiplex, headed 
by Channel 4, might exacerbate the problems rather than solve them, and 
warned that media regulator Ofcom would face a public outcry if DAB failed.

Enders Analysis added that the high cost of DAB transmission and slow 
growth in revenue had combined to undermine confidence in the new medium 
and led to the closure of a string of national digital stations.

Today's report urged the radio sector to "stop continually beating its 
chest in public about the wonders of DAB and instead partake in an 
honest industry debate about the future of the platform".

"The exodus of stations from the DAB platform is starting to look like a 
stampede," said the Enders report, written by Grant Goddard.

"With three of the largest radio groups having reduced their commitment 
to the DAB platform in recent months, their stations having been 
replaced by a mix of ethnic, religious and non-commercial broadcasters, 
the future health of the DAB platform must be under question."

Goddard's report ends with a chilling prediction from Richard Wheatley, 
the chief executive of the Local Radio Company, to analysts last month: 
"DAB is the Betamax of radio."

National digital stations that have closed include GCap Media's Core, 
UBC's Oneword and Virgin Radio's Groove. GCap's Chill and Fun Radio have 
also been scaled back, while Virgin scrapped plans for a new national 
digital station, Virgin Radio Viva.

The report said the launch of digital stations such as Polish Radio 
London, Rainbow Radio and BFBS Radio, owned by the British Armed Forces, 
had worrying echoes of the decline of the AM waveband at the end of the 
last century.

"The DAB platform of 2008, particularly in London, is already starting 
to resemble the AM platform of 1998, suggesting that DAB might have 
already been written off by the sector as a means to reach the 'mass 
market' audiences that national advertisers desire from the medium," it 
added.

Goddard said the launch of the second national commercial digital 
multiplex, headed by Channel 4, was unhelpful at a time when the first - 
run by Digital One - was struggling to fill its capacity.

"Channel 4 is faced with the task of imminently launching a brand new 
DAB multiplex in the middle of a snowstorm around the future of the 
whole platform," his report stated.

"By the end of 2007, it was evident that the 'masterplan' for DAB which 
the radio industry had clung to since the mid-1990s was simply not going 
to work.

"The closure of two longstanding national digital-only stations - Core 
and Oneword - combined with reductions in the service of several other 
digital brands helped to crystallise the problems: too much spectrum, 
not enough consumer hardware takeup, and not enough enthusiasm for DAB 
from listeners or advertisers."

Goddard said the issue of DAB overcapacity had to be "urgently resolved" 
by Ofcom, Digital One, Channel 4 and transmission business Arqiva. He 
added: "Put bluntly, can the UK commercial radio sector really support 
two DAB multiplexes?

"Ofcom faces a public outcry if the DAB platform were to fail, with 
owners of the 6.45 million DAB receivers sold to date demanding a refund 
of their purchases (remember ITV Digital?)."

A working group on the future of digital radio set up by the Department 
for Culture, Media and Sport was due to meet for the first time this week.


Mike

In article ,
 m  writes:
>  From Today's Guardian:-
>
> [snia]
> 
> Today's report urged the radio sector to "stop continually beating its 
> chest in public about the wonders of DAB and instead partake in an 
> honest industry debate about the future of the platform".

There's the problem, right there.  Whoever's running this stuff is somehow
utterly blindly believing their own spin, and has been for years.
-- 
SAm.

"m"  wrote in message 
news:47A067A8.2010301@tiscali.co.uk...
> From Today's Guardian:-
>
> Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
>

Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were stuck with it.
If people want to listen to radio after FM goes it will have to be used by 
people, yes there is Sky and Freeview giving radio but they not as flexible 
as a radio set.  Of course there are cars they will need sa DAB set.

-- 
Regards,
David

Please reply to News Group

On Wed, 30 Jan 2008 13:44:21 GMT, "David" 
wrote:

>
>"m"  wrote in message 
>news:47A067A8.2010301@tiscali.co.uk...
>> From Today's Guardian:-
>>
>> Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
>>
>
>Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were stuck with it.
>If people want to listen to radio after FM goes it will have to be used by 
>people, yes there is Sky and Freeview giving radio but they not as flexible 
>as a radio set.  Of course there are cars they will need sa DAB set.

OK, let's rid DAB of the awful stations & up the bit rates on what's
left and maybe they'll be some re-newed interest.  I don't think DAB
could be killed off until a viable replacement is available.

Marky P.

"David"  wrote in message 
news:Va%nj.537$OK.43@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "m"  wrote in message 
> news:47A067A8.2010301@tiscali.co.uk...
>> From Today's Guardian:-
>>
>> Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
>>
>
> Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were stuck with it.
> If people want to listen to radio after FM goes it will have to be used by 
> people, yes there is Sky and Freeview giving radio but they not as 
> flexible as a radio set.  Of course there are cars they will need sa DAB 
> set.
>

The main problem I find with DAB is that the Imtempo radio I own is big and 
bulky and because of its relatively high battery consumption (requires 6 'C' 
size) is really only practical to use when powered by the mains, also in 
certain parts of the house I have to do a lot of tweaking with the aerial to 
prevent the 'bubbling mud' syndrome.

Contrast this to my little Microtech (digital tuning and internal 
loudspeaker) AM/FM radio, it will fit into my shirt pocket, runs for hours 
on two rechargeable AAA batteries, and works anywhere around the house 
without an external aerial, needless to say that it's used for the 
overwhelming majority of my listening, the only time I now use the DAB radio 
is for LBC, which isn't available in my part of the country other than via 
DAB or satellite.




 -- 
> Regards,
> David
>
> Please reply to News Group
>

In article ,
   m  wrote:
> Goddard's report ends with a chilling prediction from Richard Wheatley, 
> the chief executive of the Local Radio Company, to analysts last month: 
> "DAB is the Betamax of radio."

You mean a far better system which failed in the UK through poor marketing
and sharp practise from its competitor, JVC?

-- 
*I believe five out of four people have trouble with fractions. *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

> The main problem I find with DAB is that the Imtempo radio I own is big
and
> bulky and because of its relatively high battery consumption (requires 6
'C'
> size) is really only practical to use when powered by the mains, also in
> certain parts of the house I have to do a lot of tweaking with the aerial
to
> prevent the 'bubbling mud' syndrome.
>
> Contrast this to my little Microtech (digital tuning and internal
> loudspeaker) AM/FM radio, it will fit into my shirt pocket, runs for hours
> on two rechargeable AAA batteries, and works anywhere around the house
> without an external aerial, needless to say that it's used for the
> overwhelming majority of my listening, the only time I now use the DAB
radio
> is for LBC, which isn't available in my part of the country other than via
> DAB or satellite.


I would rather listen to 5LIVE,Talksport or Virgin on a DAB set than on
crackly MW!

In article <Va%nj.537$OK.43@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>, David wrote:
> Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were stuck with it.
> If people want to listen to radio after FM goes it will have to be used by 
> people, yes there is Sky and Freeview giving radio but they not as flexible 
> as a radio set.  Of course there are cars they will need sa DAB set.

Who said FM was going?

What reason would we have for getting rid of it?

Rod.

On 30 Jan, 13:44, "David"  wrote:
> "m"  wrote in message
>
> news:47A067A8.2010301@tiscali.co.uk...
>
> > From Today's Guardian:-
>
> > Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
>
> Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were stuck with it.
> If people want to listen to radio after FM goes...

FM is not going anywhere yet!

The only people demanding an FM switch off are Digital1, the owners of
the national DAB mux.

Cheers,
David.

"Ivan" <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:am0oj.85469$c_1.78831@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk

[snip]

: : The main problem I find with DAB is that the Imtempo
: : radio I own is big and bulky and because of its
: : relatively high battery consumption (requires 6 'C'
: : size) is really only practical to use when powered by
: : the mains, also in certain parts of the house I have to
: : do a lot of tweaking with the aerial to prevent the
: : 'bubbling mud' syndrome.
: :
: : Contrast this to my little Microtech (digital tuning
: : and internal loudspeaker) AM/FM radio, it will fit into
: : my shirt pocket, runs for hours on two rechargeable AAA
: : batteries, and works anywhere around the house without
: : an external aerial, needless to say that it's used for
: : the overwhelming majority of my listening, the only
: : time I now use the DAB radio is for LBC, which isn't
: : available in my part of the country other than via DAB
: : or satellite.

It's funny, in my office at work I get really crap reception on FM but DAB 
is fine. At home, it's the other way round.

Ivor

wrote in message
news:685a6341-dba2-4a65-b28e-f3a2c6f1d789@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com
: : On 30 Jan, 13:44, "David"  wrote:
: : : "m"  wrote in message
: : :
: : : news:47A067A8.2010301@tiscali.co.uk...
: : :
: : : : From Today's Guardian:-
: : :
: : : : Is DAB radio the next Betamax?
: : :
: : : Thought the BBC favoured this system and now we were
: : : stuck with it. If people want to listen to radio
: : : after FM goes...
: :
: : FM is not going anywhere yet!

Indeed not, Frequency Modulation will always be around, even if 
broadcasters aren't using it ;-)

Ivor

"Commander Gideon"  wrote in message 
news:fnq8na$u30$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>> The main problem I find with DAB is that the Imtempo radio I own is big
> and
>> bulky and because of its relatively high battery consumption (requires 6
> 'C'
>> size) is really only practical to use when powered by the mains, also in
>> certain parts of the house I have to do a lot of tweaking with the aerial
> to
>> prevent the 'bubbling mud' syndrome.
>>
>> Contrast this to my little Microtech (digital tuning and internal
>> loudspeaker) AM/FM radio, it will fit into my shirt pocket, runs for 
>> hours
>> on two rechargeable AAA batteries, and works anywhere around the house
>> without an external aerial, needless to say that it's used for the
>> overwhelming majority of my listening, the only time I now use the DAB
> radio
>> is for LBC, which isn't available in my part of the country other than 
>> via
>> DAB or satellite.
>
>
> I would rather listen to 5LIVE,Talksport or Virgin on a DAB set than on
> crackly MW!

R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only has 2" 
speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.

>
>

In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
   Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only has
> 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.

I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial and
R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to hell and
back.

-- 
*A closed mouth gathers no feet.

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>    Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only has
>> 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.
> 
> I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial and
> R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to hell and
> back.

There is a difference between AM and DAB, but that is not the processing.

gr, hwh

"Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message 
news:4f696c121ddave@davenoise.co.uk...
> In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>   Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only has
>> 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.
>
> I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial and
> R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to hell and
> back.

Well as I've already pointed out, I'm using a small pocket radio with a 2" 
loud speaker, listening to 'speech only' channels, so I'm hardly looking for 
hifi quality, and from my point of view, size, battery life, and reliability 
of reception anywhere around the house from my point of view gives it a 
distinct advantage over my DAB radio.

> > -- 
> *A closed mouth gathers no feet.
>
>    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
>                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> 
> 
> You mean a far better system which failed in the UK through poor marketing
> and sharp practise from its competitor, JVC?
> 

And mainly cos the rental companies (few people bought in those days) 
were in thrall to the VHS companies and so only rented out VHS machines 
so the video rental companies only kept VHS copies and so on and so on.

The same game is being played out over Blu-ray and HD DVD at present by 
the film studios and equipment manufacturers allied to particular 
studios - i.e. Sony Films/machines

Mike

In article <755oj.85656$c_1.40631@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
   Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> "Dave Plowman (News)"  wrote in message
> news:4f696c121ddave@davenoise.co.uk...
> > In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>, Ivan
> >   <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only
> >> has 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.
> >
> > I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial
> > and R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to
> > hell and back.

> Well as I've already pointed out, I'm using a small pocket radio with a
> 2" loud speaker, listening to 'speech only' channels, so I'm hardly
> looking for hifi quality, and from my point of view, size, battery
> life, and reliability of reception anywhere around the house from my
> point of view gives it a distinct advantage over my DAB radio.

It doesn't sound as good, though. That's all I meant.

-- 
*I don't have a license to kill, but I do have a learner's permit.  

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

In article <47a0d93c$0$85777$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
   hwh <iimeeltje@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> > In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
> >    Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> >> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only
> >> has 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.
> > 
> > I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial
> > and R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to
> > hell and back.

> There is a difference between AM and DAB, but that is not the processing.

Are you saying the feeds as transmitted by R5 AM and DAB are identical?

-- 
*Prepositions are not words to end sentences with *

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Marky P  writes:
> 
> OK, let's rid DAB of the awful stations & up the bit rates on what's
> left and maybe they'll be some re-newed interest.  I don't think DAB
> could be killed off until a viable replacement is available.
> 
How about blanketing the UK with wi-max coverage?

Phil
-- 
Old protocols never die.  They just get migrated over TCP/IP.

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article <47a0d93c$0$85777$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
>    hwh <iimeeltje@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:
>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article <aC2oj.85534$c_1.36857@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk>,
>>>    Ivan <ivan'H'older@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> R5 MW sounds quite good on my pocket radio, considering that it only
>>>> has 2" speaker and I live about 4 miles away from the 909 transmitter.
>>> I have a wideband Quad AM receiver here with a proper outdoor aerial
>>> and R5 like all other AM broadcasts sounds crap. Over processed to
>>> hell and back.
> 
>> There is a difference between AM and DAB, but that is not the processing.
> 
> Are you saying the feeds as transmitted by R5 AM and DAB are identical?

No, I'm saying that DAB is over processed as well as AM (and FM, for 
that matter).

gr, hwh

In article <47a1e79b$0$85784$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>,
   hwh <iimeeltje@hotmail.com.nospam> wrote:
> >> There is a difference between AM and DAB, but that is not the
> >> processing.
> > 
> > Are you saying the feeds as transmitted by R5 AM and DAB are identical?

> No, I'm saying that DAB is over processed as well as AM (and FM, for 
> that matter).

R5 AM is over over processed compared to DAB, though. ;-)

-- 
*Just give me chocolate and nobody gets hurt

    Dave Plowman        dave@davenoise.co.uk           London SW
                  To e-mail, change noise into sound.