Hi

Only been playing golf for just over 2 years and wondering about
etiquette and how long it should take you to tee off.

My pre shot routine is this; place ball on tee, stand just behind ball
and take a practise swing, look for a marker just in front of the
ball, address the ball and swing.

This happened to me today; 18th hole at my club (Vicars Cross at
Chester) par 3, 131 yds to centre of the two tier green, flag today at
the back on the upper tier.   Did this today with a 8 iron and put the
ball pin high, two putt for a par.  My friend was already in the club
house and said it took a 45 seconds for me to do this (I know him and
believe me, he was probably including me watching my ball flight).  He
was basically telling me I have to speed up; am I slow or is he being
a bit picky?

Cheers

Dave

d@bt.com writes:

> Hi
> 
> Only been playing golf for just over 2 years and wondering about
> etiquette and how long it should take you to tee off.
> 
> My pre shot routine is this; place ball on tee, stand just behind ball
> and take a practise swing, look for a marker just in front of the
> ball, address the ball and swing.
> 
> This happened to me today; 18th hole at my club (Vicars Cross at
> Chester) par 3, 131 yds to centre of the two tier green, flag today at
> the back on the upper tier.   Did this today with a 8 iron and put the
> ball pin high, two putt for a par.  My friend was already in the club
> house and said it took a 45 seconds for me to do this (I know him and
> believe me, he was probably including me watching my ball flight).  He
> was basically telling me I have to speed up; am I slow or is he being
> a bit picky?

Dave,

Your description of your procedure does not sound slow; however, a
single data point is not enough for anyone to judge whether you
are a slow golfer.

Ask yourself this, would your friend comment on this without
a good reason to do so?  (I wouldn't comment on a friend's 
45 second procedure unless I knew that there was already a
problem with his general slow play.)

-- 
--------------\              /--------------
              +\    Phil    /+ 
              ++++++++++++++++
              +/    Kyle    \+ 
--------------/              \--------------

On 04 May 2008 12:29:08 -0400, Phil Kyle
 wrote:

>d@bt.com writes:
>
>> Hi
>> 
>
>Dave,
>
>Your description of your procedure does not sound slow; however, a
>single data point is not enough for anyone to judge whether you
>are a slow golfer.
>
>Ask yourself this, would your friend comment on this without
>a good reason to do so?

Actually Phil...he probably would.

Let's just say he has a bit of a reputation whatever he does, he's not
the most placid of people.  He never complains about anything else I
do on the course.  No one else has ever mentioned anything.  Just
wondered if I should be "slugging" one out in under ten seconds!

Cheers for the reply

Dave

wrote in message 
news:ilpr149kursr6863uoudakk70d9dhif748@4ax.com...
> On 04 May 2008 12:29:08 -0400, Phil Kyle
>  wrote:
>
>>d@bt.com writes:
>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>Your description of your procedure does not sound slow; however, a
>>single data point is not enough for anyone to judge whether you
>>are a slow golfer.
>>
>>Ask yourself this, would your friend comment on this without
>>a good reason to do so?
>
> Actually Phil...he probably would.
>
> Let's just say he has a bit of a reputation whatever he does, he's not
> the most placid of people.  He never complains about anything else I
> do on the course.  No one else has ever mentioned anything.  Just
> wondered if I should be "slugging" one out in under ten seconds!
>
> Cheers for the reply
>
> Dave

I thought Phil gave a very good answer.
The pre-shot routine is a good one and as you describe, should not take more 
than 30 seconds.
Slow play or fast play are only relative.  The pace of play will vary from 
player to player, group to group, competition to competition and club to 
club.   It can also vary according to time and the day of the week.

Two weeks ago I played a leisurely 9-holes with friend A and we took 105 
minutes with no one in front of us and no one behind.
The other day I played the same 9 holes with friend B and we took 70 
minutes, it would have been less but we had to wait a couple of times for 
the pair ahead who then, when they had to stop to look for a ball, called us 
through.
Both rounds were match play.
Friend A likes to putt out even when a stroke is given.  He keeps a score 
card which is in a clip on his trolley rather than in his back pocket.
Friend B would give longish putts and quickly pick up if he was about to 
lose the hole. He carries his clubs and doesn't bother to keep a score 
card - he has all the figures in his head.

Personally I prefer the slower pace of friend A, but I knew with friend B he 
liked to play fast and I upped my pace to accommodate him.

The pre-shot routine is only one element and it might be that generally you 
were playing slower than your opponent and the pre-shot routine was 
something measurable he could use to draw your attention to the fact you 
played slower than he.

You do not want a label: "Slow Player" and there is no need for any golfer 
to be one.

Some suggestions:
Go on the range with your 8 iron and ten balls.
Imagine you are on that 18th tee. Check your watch and then go though 
exactly the same pre-shot routine for each of the ten balls and then note 
how long the ten balls took in total. You can now work out your average for 
making a stroke.
For general club play it needs to be no more than about 20 seconds.

Think about the whole round you played:
were you always ready to play when it was your turn?
were you always in the right place at the right time?
if you use a trolley where did you take it and leave it?
how often did you have the flagstick in your hand ready to replace after 
your opponent finished the hole?
where and when did you mark your score card if you kept one?
These are just a few instances where unnecessary time is wasted.

Finally, those who demand to play faster than the pace of the course are as 
much a menace as those who play slower than the pace.

Congratulations on th epar by the way :-)

Malcolm

On Sun, 4 May 2008 22:51:41 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

Thanks for the reply Malcolm,

>
>Two weeks ago I played a leisurely 9-holes with friend A and we took 105 
>minutes with no one in front of us and no one behind.
>The other day I played the same 9 holes with friend B and we took 70 
>minutes, it would have been less but we had to wait a couple of times for 
>the pair ahead who then, when they had to stop to look for a ball, called us 
>through.

This particular friend does everything at 100mph, actually come to
think of it he's well over that with his golf swing and he has a
reputation for being a grump on his best of days.  I think his main
concern was that yesterday we played 2 - 4 ball stapleford, two best
scores counting.  They tee'd off first and we planned to follow
straight away but then a 4 ball club comp asked for priority on the
first tee which we gave.  Two of my team had never played my club
before and certainly the lady putted out every hole regardless of
score with the other pretty much doing the same, she also had at least
two 9's. One of them was on the par 5 17th and I seemed to wait
forever for my par putt but no problem as the course was pretty empty
anyway due to the rain.   Plus coming off the 8th they had a coffee
from the refreshment shed and we let a following two ball through.  It
took about 4 hours for us to get round.  I have done a full round on
an empty course with "Mr Grump" in just over two hours (so he's about
the same as your friend Mr B).  He probably timed me from the time I
walked onto the tee until the time I walked off, including watching my
ball flight.

>Go on the range with your 8 iron and ten balls.
>Imagine you are on that 18th tee. Check your watch and then go though 
>exactly the same pre-shot routine for each of the ten balls and then note 
>how long the ten balls took in total. You can now work out your average for 
>making a stroke.
>For general club play it needs to be no more than about 20 seconds.

Actually at the range I do tend to just bang them out a bit.

>Finally, those who demand to play faster than the pace of the course are as 
>much a menace as those who play slower than the pace.

Agreed most definitely.

>Congratulations on th epar by the way :-)

Scored 5 pars...not bad for an old'un who's only been playing just
over two years!! ;-)
>
>Malcolm
>
>

Cheers

Dave

d@bt.com wrote:
> On Sun, 4 May 2008 22:51:41 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply Malcolm,
> 
<lots snipped>
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Dave

As my 'puter is set up to delete posts that I have already read I don't 
remember what Malcolm replied and I have no recourse to his posting.

However, if he has already made a similar comment to mine that follows 
then I am repeating it.

You may be interested to know that 'timing' allowance, as dictated by 
our PGA Tour 'hard card', takes place when players have been placed 'on 
the clock' following a slow play problem. " In the absence of mitigating 
circumstances, a group is liable to be timed if it is in excess of the 
time allowed......and out of position...etc etc..". The card goes on to 
describe a complex set of circumstances that place a group 'out of 
position'. The card goes on "..From the commencement of timing, if any 
player exceeds 50 seconds on a 'first to play approach shot (including a 
Par 3 tee shot), chip or putt' or 40 seconds if it is a tee shot or 
'second or third' to play shot' he shall be deemed to have had a 'bad 
time'. Timing commences when it is the player's turn to play and there 
are no distractions affecting his play. Timing includes any time taken 
for estimating, judging or establishing distances etc. The player MUST 
make his stroke without any delay.

'Bad times' accrue and lead to penalties, which in 2003 I note were as 
follows:-

One bad time....verbal warning from official
Two bad times...one stroke penalty and $500 fine
Three bad times.two stroke penalty and $1000 fine
Four bad times..Disqualification

I understand the current PGA Hard cards have similar 'pace of play' 
conditions, although the penalties will have increased somewhat. These 
particular fines applied to PGA Tour Australia at the time, but are 
common to other national PGA conditions, although the fines would be 
more in keeping with the Tour prizes on offer. On the US Tour they 
probably take one of your luxury homes for each 'bad time' incurred :-)

In my mind 50 seconds is quite long enough for any player to take over 
any golf shot, pro or amateur!

cheers
david