"Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"

The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not 
be pushed, scraped or spooned."

  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the 
question was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"

After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for time, 
the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the R&A 
Rules Committee!

We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
idea of what this is, with references if any?

BTW, I put forward the anomaly revealed in Decision 20-5/1 and recently 
discussed here, the answer being basically that it did not seem to be a 
sufficiently controversial or common problem for them, and they had not 
addressed the issue or contemplated any changes. However, this is now 
notionally 'on board', although I doubt anything will come of it.

I also asked, in a face to face chat with DR, about the issues 
surrounding long putters....apart from dealing with occasional questions 
about anchor points etc I got the impression 'long putters' were now off 
the agenda. The new rules introduce(by way of an addition exception to 
Rules 14-3) the concept of using equipment in a 'traditionally accepted 
manner'. An example which would breach this rule would be the use of a 
golf ball in assisting a player's grip on his putter. However, it would 
seem that long putters have now become a 'traditionally accepted' piece 
of equipment...and there is unlikely to be any action in constraining 
their use.

..and yes Johnty, the mention of LS did produce a wry smile...along with 
the comment 'they provide a useful role'. He'd already struck KAL in the 
Malaysian seminar held a week earlier!

cheers
david

"david s-a"  wrote in message 
news:5qu9o0F11qgfkU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>
> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not 
> be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>
>  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the question 
> was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>
> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for time, 
> the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the R&A Rules 
> Committee!
>
> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
> idea of what this is, with references if any?
>
Surely a scrape is when the clubhead  is placed directly
behind the ball and the ball scraped forward by moving
the clubhead along the ground. Pity it is illegal since
it is amazingly easy to hole short and medium putts with
this action.

Alan

Alan Murphy wrote:
> "david s-a"  wrote in message 
> news:5qu9o0F11qgfkU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>>
>> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not 
>> be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>>
>>  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the question 
>> was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>>
>> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for time, 
>> the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the R&A Rules 
>> Committee!
>>
>> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
>> idea of what this is, with references if any?
>>
> Surely a scrape is when the clubhead  is placed directly
> behind the ball and the ball scraped forward by moving
> the clubhead along the ground. Pity it is illegal since
> it is amazingly easy to hole short and medium putts with
> this action.
> 
> Alan
> 
> 
  That's a 'push' isn't it?

david

david s-a  writes:

> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
> 
> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must
> not be pushed, scraped or spooned."
> 
>   At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the
> question was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
> 
> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for
> time, the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the
> R&A Rules Committee!
> 
> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent
> idea of what this is, with references if any?

I believe a ball has been scraped when the player uses the club to
pull the ball towards himself and the club and ball are in contact for
a period of time longer than 'momentary.'

It is the "opposite" of a push in the sense that pushing starts
with the club between the pusher and the ball and scraping starts
with the ball between the scraper and the club.

-- 
             Leon Chamae
             Directeur du Personnel
             Bureau de Change

Leon Chamae wrote:
> david s-a  writes:
> 
>> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>>
>> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must
>> not be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>>
>>   At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the
>> question was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>>
>> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for
>> time, the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the
>> R&A Rules Committee!
>>
>> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent
>> idea of what this is, with references if any?
> 
> I believe a ball has been scraped when the player uses the club to
> pull the ball towards himself and the club and ball are in contact for
> a period of time longer than 'momentary.'
> 
> It is the "opposite" of a push in the sense that pushing starts
> with the club between the pusher and the ball and scraping starts
> with the ball between the scraper and the club.
> 

Without wishing to appear pedantic about it I would have thought the 
"opposite" of a "push" was a "pull"...just as you describe in '...the 
player uses the club to pull the ball towards himself...'!

cheers
david

"david s-a"  wrote in message 
news:5qu9o0F11qgfkU1@mid.individual.net...
> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>
> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not 
> be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>
>  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the question 
> was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>
> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for time, 
> the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the R&A Rules 
> Committee!
>
> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
> idea of what this is, with references if any?
>
.....(snip)

> However, it would seem that long putters have now become a 'traditionally 
> accepted' piece of equipment...and there is unlikely to be any action in 
> constraining their use.
>
> cheers
> david

David,

I am pleased to note my 8-foot long putter is safe - useless as a putter but 
great for measuring with!

My interpretation of pushing , scraping and spooning is that they are all 
deliberate acts, unlike striking the ball more that once (14-4) :

Pushing = the stroke has no backswing therefore to propel the ball forward 
the club remains momentarily in contact with it.  A bit like a flick in 
hockey. Might be used illegally to move a ball from a near-unplayable 
position.

Scraping = the club is brought into contact with the ball and remains in 
contact with it in order to steer it. Might be used on a short putt.  More 
likely to have been used illegally in the days of stymies.

Spooning = The ball is simultaneously pushed and scraped with the intention 
of lifting it, usually to get out of a bunker.

Regards,
Malcolm

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:16:22 -0000, "Alan Murphy"
 wrote:

>"david s-a"  wrote in message 
>news:5qu9o0F11qgfkU1@mid.individual.net...
>> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>>
>> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must not 
>> be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>>
>>  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the question 
>> was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>>
>> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for time, 
>> the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the R&A Rules 
>> Committee!
>>
>> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
>> idea of what this is, with references if any?
>>
>Surely a scrape is when the clubhead  is placed directly
>behind the ball and the ball scraped forward by moving
>the clubhead along the ground. Pity it is illegal since
>it is amazingly easy to hole short and medium putts with
>this action.
>
>Alan
>

Hahaha!  Nice one, Alan.  :-)  
-- 
jvdp
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com

"John van der Pflum"  wrote in message
>
> Hahaha!  Nice one, Alan.  :-)
> -- 
> jvdp
> http://www.rsgcincinnati.com

Surprised you saw it. I'm seven times dead to you :-)

Alan

"david s-a"  wrote in message 
news:5quc96F11u0k7U1@mid.individual.net...
> Alan Murphy wrote:
>> "david s-a"  wrote in message 
>> news:5qu9o0F11qgfkU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> "Rule 14-1 Ball to be Fairly Struck At"
>>>
>>> The ball must be fairly struck at with the head of the club and must 
>>> not be pushed, scraped or spooned."
>>>
>>>  At our recent seminar with the R&A Rules of Golf Committee the 
>>> question was asked "What is 'scraping' the ball?"
>>>
>>> After an amusing silence, in which DR admitted he was stalling for 
>>> time, the question appeared to stump even the highest echelons of the 
>>> R&A Rules Committee!
>>>
>>> We still don't really have a clear definition! Anyone have a competent 
>>> idea of what this is, with references if any?
>>>
>> Surely a scrape is when the clubhead  is placed directly
>> behind the ball and the ball scraped forward by moving
>> the clubhead along the ground. Pity it is illegal since
>> it is amazingly easy to hole short and medium putts with
>> this action.
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>  That's a 'push' isn't it?
>
> david
>
Not the way I do it. I scrape the clubhead along
the ground, towards the hole, pulling the ball with
it.

Alan

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:51:47 -0000, "Alan Murphy"
 wrote:

>"John van der Pflum"  wrote in message
>>
>> Hahaha!  Nice one, Alan.  :-)
>> -- 
>> jvdp
>> http://www.rsgcincinnati.com
>
>Surprised you saw it. I'm seven times dead to you :-)
>
>Alan
>

Seven?!?!?!  Geez, man, save some for the rest of us!!  :-)
-- 
jvdp
http://www.rsgcincinnati.com