On 2 Nov, 09:29, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> BTAIM, most golfers don't even know a new edition of the Rules is imminent.
> I still come across golfers who think they can declare a ball lost and
> others who think you have to face the hole when dropping.
> For those still dropping over their shoulder, the world is passing them by.

Talking of what golfers do and don't know about the rules, what do you
make of the incident involving Padraig Harrington as reported by
Lewine Mair in the Torygraph today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;?xml=/sport/2007/11/02/sgmair102.xml

My reading is that Harrington was penalised for accidentally moving
the ball after address, while in the act of making his customary
practice strokes.  What I don't understand is the comment that he
subsequently had a less difficult line, suggesting the ball was not
replaced.  Surely the ball could only have been played from its new
position if he had been deemed to have made a stroke (that is, one
with the intention of striking the ball).  It would then have counted
as a stroke, not a penalty.  Any penalty situation would have demanded
replacement, or further penalties strokes should have been applied.
Maybe I'm missing something ?

John Laird wrote:
> On 2 Nov, 09:29, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
> 
>> BTAIM, most golfers don't even know a new edition of the Rules is imminent.
>> I still come across golfers who think they can declare a ball lost and
>> others who think you have to face the hole when dropping.
>> For those still dropping over their shoulder, the world is passing them by.
> 
> Talking of what golfers do and don't know about the rules, what do you
> make of the incident involving Padraig Harrington as reported by
> Lewine Mair in the Torygraph today:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;?xml=/sport/2007/11/02/sgmair102.xml
> 
> My reading is that Harrington was penalised for accidentally moving
> the ball after address, while in the act of making his customary
> practice strokes.  What I don't understand is the comment that he
> subsequently had a less difficult line, suggesting the ball was not
> replaced.  Surely the ball could only have been played from its new
> position if he had been deemed to have made a stroke (that is, one
> with the intention of striking the ball).  It would then have counted
> as a stroke, not a penalty.  Any penalty situation would have demanded
> replacement, or further penalties strokes should have been applied.
> Maybe I'm missing something ?
> 
> 

John,

It is not clear that he actually addressed the ball, _which must include
taking his stance_  as well as grounding his club. He evidently had not
taken his stance. It would however seem to be a fact that he played the
ball from its new position, ie. he did not replace it after it had
moved. This would suggest that he had not caused the ball to move, he
had not completed the address at the ball, and it had moved of its own
accord. He was however penalised, which would have been the case if he
had actually touched the ball with his practice stroke in its new
position, _without moving it_. This would consequently be a penalty
imposed for touching his ball in play...1-stroke under R18-2a.

Otherwise the reporter has it wrong, or Harrington 'forgot' to include
the extra penalty for not replacing his ball!

Hang him I say!

cheers
david

John Laird wrote:

> 
> Harrington has an unusual technique.  He takes his stance with the
> putter grounded just inside the ball, takes a couple of practice
> swings, and then (without moving his feet), leans over and moves the
> putter head behind the ball, and then putts.  I'm sure the match
> official would have familiar with this.
> 


My initial and automatic reaction is.."..interesting, I still have a 
digital recording of the whole of Round 4 of the 'Open' in which he is 
featured significantly.....I must watch this..."!

My second reaction was "..Buggrit, I have only just deleted it from the 
PVR hard disk, and only yesterday!!...".

Incredible these 'PVRs", (twin tuner digital set-top-box with hard disk 
recorder), mine holds about 20 hours of recorded programming, however 
one has to keep up with the 'house-keeping' otherwise you run out of 
space. As I must have watched Round 4 of the 'Open' at least 30 times 
(usually in the wee small hours when everyone else is asleep) I was 
finally ready to 'let it go'....one day too soon, dammit!

Interesting, in the 'Definitions' the question of 'where' the club is 
grounded is not addressed ('scuse me!)...but Decision 18-2b/5.5 suggests 
that Harrington has actually 'addressed' the ball with his practice 
routine as soon as he grounds his club after taking his stance, 
regardless as to where it was grounded! A very risky routine I think.

..hmmmmm!

david

david s-a wrote:
> John Laird wrote:
> 
>>
>> Harrington has an unusual technique.  He takes his stance with the
>> putter grounded just inside the ball, takes a couple of practice
>> swings, and then (without moving his feet), leans over and moves the
>> putter head behind the ball, and then putts.  I'm sure the match
>> official would have familiar with this.
>>
> 
> 
> My initial and automatic reaction is.."..interesting, I still have a 
> digital recording of the whole of Round 4 of the 'Open' in which he is 
> featured significantly.....I must watch this..."!
> 
> My second reaction was "..Buggrit, I have only just deleted it from the 
> PVR hard disk, and only yesterday!!...".
> 
> Incredible these 'PVRs", (twin tuner digital set-top-box with hard disk 
> recorder), mine holds about 20 hours of recorded programming, however 
> one has to keep up with the 'house-keeping' otherwise you run out of 
> space. As I must have watched Round 4 of the 'Open' at least 30 times 
> (usually in the wee small hours when everyone else is asleep) I was 
> finally ready to 'let it go'....one day too soon, dammit!
> 
> Interesting, in the 'Definitions' the question of 'where' the club is 
> grounded is not addressed ('scuse me!)...but Decision 18-2b/5.5 suggests 
> that Harrington has actually 'addressed' the ball with his practice 
> routine as soon as he grounds his club after taking his stance, 
> regardless as to where it was grounded! A very risky routine I think.
> 
> ..hmmmmm!
> 
> david

I was also of the opinion that Harrington doesn't move his feet between 
"practice" stroke and "actual" stroke. I thought it had been this way 
for a couple of years. However I still have coverage of the HSBC  World 
Matchplay and the very first piece of footage i found showing all of 
Harrington's routine clearly shows him moving his feet. Only half an 
inch or less but it is movement none the less. It gets more complicated 
though. He does the following:

Plants his feet.

Only using his right hand on the club places the putter head behind the 
ball in line with the putt. (I'm assuming the putter is grounded as the 
footage is not from a low enough angle to be sure)

He then drags the putter inside the line into a more normal practice 
stroke postition.

Places his left hand on the club.

Takes 3 practice swings.

Grounds the club still inside the line.

Shuffles his feet forward.

Moves the putter head behind the ball.

Plays the stroke.


Its the only coverage of harrington i have to hand so maybe he changes 
it day to day or week to week.

-- 
Benway