I think the reasoning is something like - one says 'ladies and gentlemen' 
and 'men and women.  Thus the female equivalent of 'men' is 'women' when 
referring to golf, not 'men' and 'ladies.  Probably it is also thought to be 
rather old fashioned.

And by the way, sorry Demitri - you are likely right about the locaton 
-wherever it is, the EWGA don't want to move there!  In these days of 
computer comunication I just don't see why this is an issue to prevent the 
dialogue continuing - I think it is just being used by one or both sides as 
a feeble excuse.

Roll on the day when there is just 'golf' at all levels.

Love & peace

Janet

url:http://www.myreader.co.uk/msg/12323241.aspx

Janet Homer wrote:
> I think the reasoning is something like - one says 'ladies and gentlemen' 
> and 'men and women.  Thus the female equivalent of 'men' is 'women' when 
> referring to golf, not 'men' and 'ladies.  Probably it is also thought to be 
> rather old fashioned.
> 

Janet

Ah..ha! I do like that, which makes perfect sense! I'll use it if I may.

However, even in this country, Oz, I have found that women prefer to be 
called women, rather than 'ladies', but I have not been able to fathom 
what the objection is. I was even pointedly admonished by a female 
employee, an engineer to boot but perfectly feminine, just because I 
referred to her as a 'lady'! I don't know what the connotation is in 
connection with being called a 'lady'......but the Oz LPGA seems 
perfectly content with their lot!

:-)

cheers
david

david s-a wrote:

>> I think the reasoning is something like - one says 'ladies and 
>> gentlemen' and 'men and women.  Thus the female equivalent of 'men' is 
>> 'women' when referring to golf, not 'men' and 'ladies.  Probably it is 
>> also thought to be rather old fashioned.

> However, even in this country, Oz, I have found that women prefer to be 
> called women, rather than 'ladies', but I have not been able to fathom 
> what the objection is. I was even pointedly admonished by a female 
> employee, an engineer to boot but perfectly feminine, just because I 
> referred to her as a 'lady'! I don't know what the connotation is in 
> connection with being called a 'lady'......but the Oz LPGA seems 
> perfectly content with their lot!

A mortal sin David! However at my club some conservative women were 
disappointed they weren't called "ladies" any more! They though it had a 
certain dignity that was missing in "women".

The objection probably goes back to the times that ladies were 
second-class members as "Associates". It is old-fashioned. There is some 
degree of sexism in that the men are not called "gentlemen".

I have quietly instituted some changes over the years. Since I do the 
club's yearbook and other publications like tournament brochures, I have 
progressively changed all references from "ladies" to "women" in events.

We now have the WGA, WGV, and even the local District is the WGDD.

-- 
Cheers
Colin Wilson
------------------------------------------------------------------
Trentham Golf Club: http://www.trenthamgolf.com
Barnbougle Dunes: http://publishing.kyneton.net.au/barnbougle
------------------------------------------------------------------

Colin Wilson wrote:
> david s-a wrote:
> 
>>> I think the reasoning is something like - one says 'ladies and 
>>> gentlemen' and 'men and women.  Thus the female equivalent of 'men' 
>>> is 'women' when referring to golf, not 'men' and 'ladies.  Probably 
>>> it is also thought to be rather old fashioned.
> 
>> However, even in this country, Oz, I have found that women prefer to 
>> be called women, rather than 'ladies', but I have not been able to 
>> fathom what the objection is. I was even pointedly admonished by a 
>> female employee, an engineer to boot but perfectly feminine, just 
>> because I referred to her as a 'lady'! I don't know what the 
>> connotation is in connection with being called a 'lady'......but the 
>> Oz LPGA seems perfectly content with their lot!
> 
> A mortal sin David! However at my club some conservative women were 
> disappointed they weren't called "ladies" any more! They though it had a 
> certain dignity that was missing in "women".
> 
> The objection probably goes back to the times that ladies were 
> second-class members as "Associates". It is old-fashioned. There is some 
> degree of sexism in that the men are not called "gentlemen".
> 
> I have quietly instituted some changes over the years. Since I do the 
> club's yearbook and other publications like tournament brochures, I have 
> progressively changed all references from "ladies" to "women" in events.
> 
> We now have the WGA, WGV, and even the local District is the WGDD.
> 


Bravo Colin!

:-)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 08:40:36 +1000, david s-a said...
> Janet Homer wrote:
> > I think the reasoning is something like - one says 'ladies and gentlemen' 
> > and 'men and women.  Thus the female equivalent of 'men' is 'women' when 
> > referring to golf, not 'men' and 'ladies.  Probably it is also thought to be 
> > rather old fashioned.
> > 
> 
> Janet
> 
> Ah..ha! I do like that, which makes perfect sense! I'll use it if I may.
> 
> However, even in this country, Oz, I have found that women prefer to be 
> called women, rather than 'ladies', but I have not been able to fathom 
> what the objection is. I was even pointedly admonished by a female 
> employee, an engineer to boot but perfectly feminine, just because I 
> referred to her as a 'lady'! I don't know what the connotation is in 
> connection with being called a 'lady'......but the Oz LPGA seems 
> perfectly content with their lot!
> 
> :-)
> 
> cheers
> david

The problem with the term 'Lady', just as with 'Gentleman', is that it 
implies more about a person than simply their gender. Women have been 
searching for a term that does not do this.

'Lady' has been considered patronising by some for at least 40 years, 
and although the numbers objecting started out small they have grown, 
especially among the sub-40 age group.

It may be that not everyone can understand where the patronisation comes 
into it, but it is worth remembering that in the days when the terms 
Ladies and Gentlemen were first coined, Ladies were not the equal of 
Gentlemen. So 'Lady' is still considered pejorative by some. 
'Gentleman' is simply anachronistic.

'Women', on the other hand, is a descriptive term with no pejorative 
connotations at all.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I call that a radical interpretation of the text.