During a recent competition (not at my club) I was told a player had
been given a 2 shot penalty for pulling up some grass and throwing it
to test the wind. Is this valid...if so what rule covers it? I had not
heard of it before and I know several players that do it.

AlanC

AlanC wrote:
> During a recent competition (not at my club) I was told a player had
> been given a 2 shot penalty for pulling up some grass and throwing it
> to test the wind. Is this valid...if so what rule covers it? I had not
> heard of it before and I know several players that do it.
> 
> AlanC
> 

Alan, a sort of myth here, this really depends on where the grass was 
taken from. It should be noted that the Definition of a 'Loose 
Impediment' expressly excludes natural items that are 'fixed or 
growing'....therefore 'growing grass' does not benefit from from the 
relief provisions of Rule 23 (Loose Impediments), if the impediment 
interferes with the player's lie etc....and of course may not be removed.

Furthermore, Rule 13-2 provides that a player cannot improve or allow to 
be improved: the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended 
stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line 
beyond the hole, or the area where he is to drop or place a ball,  by 
moving , bending or breaking anything growing or fixed. If he took the 
grass from any situation that is defined here then he is subject to a 
2-stroke penalty in stroke play, or loss of hole in Matchplay.

An exception to this is that a player is permitted to eliminate 
irregularities of the surface on the teeing ground......and this 
includes breaking off or pulling out grass growing behind the ball to 
achieve this.

If the purpose of pulling out the grass is simply to 'test the wind' 
then no rule excludes that, provided nothing is done to improve his play 
as detailed here.

cheers
david

"david s-a"  wrote in message 
news:5l4h6qF6e84jU1@mid.individual.net...
> AlanC wrote:
>> During a recent competition (not at my club) I was told a player had
>> been given a 2 shot penalty for pulling up some grass and throwing it
>> to test the wind. Is this valid...if so what rule covers it? I had not
>> heard of it before and I know several players that do it.
>>
>> AlanC
>>
>
> Alan, a sort of myth here, this really depends on where the grass was 
> taken from. It should be noted that the Definition of a 'Loose Impediment' 
> expressly excludes natural items that are 'fixed or growing'....therefore 
> 'growing grass' does not benefit from from the relief provisions of Rule 
> 23 (Loose Impediments), if the impediment interferes with the player's lie 
> etc....and of course may not be removed.
>
> Furthermore, Rule 13-2 provides that a player cannot improve or allow to 
> be improved: the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended 
> stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line 
> beyond the hole, or the area where he is to drop or place a ball,  by 
> moving , bending or breaking anything growing or fixed. If he took the 
> grass from any situation that is defined here then he is subject to a 
> 2-stroke penalty in stroke play, or loss of hole in Matchplay.
>
> An exception to this is that a player is permitted to eliminate 
> irregularities of the surface on the teeing ground......and this includes 
> breaking off or pulling out grass growing behind the ball to achieve this.
>
> If the purpose of pulling out the grass is simply to 'test the wind' then 
> no rule excludes that, provided nothing is done to improve his play as 
> detailed here.
>
> cheers
> david


Wow!  I never would have thought of picking up grass and tossing it in the 
air as improving my lie!  I don't do it anyway - my game isn't good enough 
that knowing the direction of the wind will change my mind on how to play my 
shot.  I'm learning a lot of things here.

liz

On Wed, 19 Sep 2007 19:45:55 -0400, LizG said...
> 
> "david s-a"  wrote in message 
> news:5l4h6qF6e84jU1@mid.individual.net...
> > AlanC wrote:
> >> During a recent competition (not at my club) I was told a player had
> >> been given a 2 shot penalty for pulling up some grass and throwing it
> >> to test the wind. Is this valid...if so what rule covers it? I had not
> >> heard of it before and I know several players that do it.
> >>
> >> AlanC
> >>
> >
> > Alan, a sort of myth here, this really depends on where the grass was 
> > taken from. It should be noted that the Definition of a 'Loose Impediment' 
> > expressly excludes natural items that are 'fixed or growing'....therefore 
> > 'growing grass' does not benefit from from the relief provisions of Rule 
> > 23 (Loose Impediments), if the impediment interferes with the player's lie 
> > etc....and of course may not be removed.
> >
> > Furthermore, Rule 13-2 provides that a player cannot improve or allow to 
> > be improved: the position or lie of his ball, the area of his intended 
> > stance or swing, his line of play or a reasonable extension of that line 
> > beyond the hole, or the area where he is to drop or place a ball,  by 
> > moving , bending or breaking anything growing or fixed. If he took the 
> > grass from any situation that is defined here then he is subject to a 
> > 2-stroke penalty in stroke play, or loss of hole in Matchplay.
> >
> > An exception to this is that a player is permitted to eliminate 
> > irregularities of the surface on the teeing ground......and this includes 
> > breaking off or pulling out grass growing behind the ball to achieve this.
> >
> > If the purpose of pulling out the grass is simply to 'test the wind' then 
> > no rule excludes that, provided nothing is done to improve his play as 
> > detailed here.
> >
> > cheers
> > david
> 
> 
> Wow!  I never would have thought of picking up grass and tossing it in the 
> air as improving my lie!

It isn't. Unless you pluck the grass from under the ball. Which is what 
David says in his verbose way.

>  I don't do it anyway - my game isn't good enough 
> that knowing the direction of the wind will change my mind on how to play my 
> shot.  I'm learning a lot of things here.

You'll want to soon enough. A crosswind can move the ball quite a bit. 
Could be the difference between a good shot and hitting a greenside 
pond. A head or tail wind can easily affect club selection.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I call that a radical interpretation of the text.

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:59:02 +0100, Mark Myers  wrote:

> A crosswind can move the ball quite a bit. 
> Could be the difference between a good shot and hitting a greenside 
> pond. A head or tail wind can easily affect club selection.

I officiated at a tournament yesterday at a course with practically no
trees, and a howling wind, 25mph minimum, gusting to easily 40 or so,
since it was bending over trees and knocking over tournament
officials!
Really, I had a few times to change my stance to keep from being blown
down.  Amazing.
The golfers were going nuts with it -- many shots ended up on
adjoining fairways, after being blown 90° from their intended
direction.
There was no shelter anywhere on the course, except for one loo. Every
hole was windswept, and on one of the ponds, I actually saw whitecaps!
The people who knew something about playing in the wind were keeping
their shots low, and sacrificing distance for the sake of maintaining
azimuth.  Other, who didn't know so much, were hitting their usual
shots high in the air, and then acting very surprised to find their
balls, if they could at all, in deep rough or out of bounds.

I agree with the idea that knowing which direction the wind's coming
from is quite important.  Even if one is a rank beginner, playing with
regard to wind direction is very very important.

Peter