1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
position where it came to rest.

2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
(sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.

3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
astride an extension of your own putting line.

4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
may touch the green to see if it's wet.

5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
shot penalty and replace the ball.

----------------------------------------------------

Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com

----------------------------------------------------

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> 
> "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
> news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
> >> an
> >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
> >
> > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > lies.
> > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
> >
> > Pierre
> 
> Read my sentence again, Peter.
> 
My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
A thousand pardons...

Peter

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> 
> "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
> news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
> >> an
> >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
> >
> > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > lies.
> > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
> >
> > Pierre
> 
> Read my sentence again, Peter.
> 
My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
A thousand pardons...

Peter

M L Wadsworth in :

>1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
>small object.
>Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
>else's line of play or line of putt.

What about the putter as a temporary marker?
Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
but no accident so far.

Is this o.k. by the rules?

Ciao,

Paul

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
> M L Wadsworth in :
> 
> >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
> >small object.
> >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
> >else's line of play or line of putt.
> 
> What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> but no accident so far.
> 
> Is this o.k. by the rules?

Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't 
have the time right now.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

On 22 Jun, 07:10, Peter Strauss  wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> > "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message
> >news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> > >  wrote:
>
> > >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> > >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or
> > >> an
> > >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> > >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> > > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > > lies.
> > > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> > > Pierre
>
> > Read my sentence again, Peter.
>
> My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
> A thousand pardons...
>



Peter, you actually thought Malcolm had made a mistake???

Shame on you.

On Jun 22, 4:46 pm, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.

Decision 20-1/16 permits the use of "unusual" objects, including part
of a club.  It is only a recommendation that a ball-marker or other
small object be used, but bear in mind a recommendation isn't just a
casual use of words.  A player who chooses to use some other strange
method makes it more likely they will infringe the rule one day, or at
the very least find themselves involved in a bar-room debate !

--
"Clean mind, clean body:  take your pick."

On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.
>

Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
the time, but I cba.

"johnty"  wrote in message 
news:1182529245.828686.71260@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>>
>> > M L Wadsworth in :
>>
>> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to 
>> > >be a
>> > >small object.
>> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near 
>> > >someone
>> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>>
>> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
>> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
>> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
>> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and 
>> > replace
>> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter 
>> > head,
>> > but no accident so far.
>>
>> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>>
>> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
>> have the time right now.
>>
>
> Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
> the time, but I cba.
>
>

20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth in :

>20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
>"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
>recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
>placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Thank you, Malcolm, for the precise enlightenment.

Ciao,

Paul

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> 
> "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
> news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
> >> an
> >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
> >
> > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > lies.
> > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
> >
> > Pierre
> 
> Read my sentence again, Peter.
> 
My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
A thousand pardons...

Peter

M L Wadsworth in :

>1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
>small object.
>Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
>else's line of play or line of putt.

What about the putter as a temporary marker?
Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
but no accident so far.

Is this o.k. by the rules?

Ciao,

Paul

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
> M L Wadsworth in :
> 
> >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
> >small object.
> >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
> >else's line of play or line of putt.
> 
> What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> but no accident so far.
> 
> Is this o.k. by the rules?

Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't 
have the time right now.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

On 22 Jun, 07:10, Peter Strauss  wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> > "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message
> >news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> > >  wrote:
>
> > >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> > >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or
> > >> an
> > >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> > >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> > > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > > lies.
> > > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> > > Pierre
>
> > Read my sentence again, Peter.
>
> My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
> A thousand pardons...
>



Peter, you actually thought Malcolm had made a mistake???

Shame on you.

On Jun 22, 4:46 pm, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.

Decision 20-1/16 permits the use of "unusual" objects, including part
of a club.  It is only a recommendation that a ball-marker or other
small object be used, but bear in mind a recommendation isn't just a
casual use of words.  A player who chooses to use some other strange
method makes it more likely they will infringe the rule one day, or at
the very least find themselves involved in a bar-room debate !

--
"Clean mind, clean body:  take your pick."

On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.
>

Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
the time, but I cba.

"johnty"  wrote in message 
news:1182529245.828686.71260@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>>
>> > M L Wadsworth in :
>>
>> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to 
>> > >be a
>> > >small object.
>> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near 
>> > >someone
>> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>>
>> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
>> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
>> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
>> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and 
>> > replace
>> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter 
>> > head,
>> > but no accident so far.
>>
>> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>>
>> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
>> have the time right now.
>>
>
> Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
> the time, but I cba.
>
>

20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth in :

>20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
>"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
>recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
>placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Thank you, Malcolm, for the precise enlightenment.

Ciao,

Paul

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> 
> "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
> news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
> >> an
> >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
> >
> > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > lies.
> > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
> >
> > Pierre
> 
> Read my sentence again, Peter.
> 
My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
A thousand pardons...

Peter

M L Wadsworth in :

>1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
>small object.
>Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
>else's line of play or line of putt.

What about the putter as a temporary marker?
Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
but no accident so far.

Is this o.k. by the rules?

Ciao,

Paul

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
> M L Wadsworth in :
> 
> >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
> >small object.
> >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
> >else's line of play or line of putt.
> 
> What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> but no accident so far.
> 
> Is this o.k. by the rules?

Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't 
have the time right now.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

On 22 Jun, 07:10, Peter Strauss  wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> > "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message
> >news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> > >  wrote:
>
> > >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> > >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or
> > >> an
> > >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> > >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> > > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > > lies.
> > > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> > > Pierre
>
> > Read my sentence again, Peter.
>
> My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
> A thousand pardons...
>



Peter, you actually thought Malcolm had made a mistake???

Shame on you.

On Jun 22, 4:46 pm, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.

Decision 20-1/16 permits the use of "unusual" objects, including part
of a club.  It is only a recommendation that a ball-marker or other
small object be used, but bear in mind a recommendation isn't just a
casual use of words.  A player who chooses to use some other strange
method makes it more likely they will infringe the rule one day, or at
the very least find themselves involved in a bar-room debate !

--
"Clean mind, clean body:  take your pick."

On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.
>

Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
the time, but I cba.

"johnty"  wrote in message 
news:1182529245.828686.71260@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>>
>> > M L Wadsworth in :
>>
>> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to 
>> > >be a
>> > >small object.
>> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near 
>> > >someone
>> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>>
>> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
>> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
>> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
>> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and 
>> > replace
>> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter 
>> > head,
>> > but no accident so far.
>>
>> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>>
>> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
>> have the time right now.
>>
>
> Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
> the time, but I cba.
>
>

20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth in :

>20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
>"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
>recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
>placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Thank you, Malcolm, for the precise enlightenment.

Ciao,

Paul

wrote in message 
news:1182367875.904809.117450@q19g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
> 1. You may lift a ball on a green and clean it, but you have to mark
> its position first. You can mark a ball with any thing, including
> sticking a tee into a ground, as long as the ball is replaced to the
> position where it came to rest.
>
> 2. When you ball is on the green, you may remove loose impediments
> (sand, pebbles, leaves, ect.) from your putting line by any means. But
> don't intentionally test the surface or press anything down.
>
> 3. To avoid standing in a player's putting line, you may stand on or
> astride an extension of your own putting line.
>
> 4. As long as you don't press anything down or scrape the surface, you
> may touch the green to see if it's wet.
>
> 5. If you hit your ball with a practice putting stroke, take a one-
> shot penalty and replace the ball.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>
> Read the entire post at: http://www.golfingmatches.com
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
>

Nearly right.

1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
small object.
Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
else's line of play or line of putt.

2. Yes, you may remove loose impediments but you may remove them from 
anywhere, not just your line of putt.
You might add, that if the ball is on the green and it moves as a result, 
unlike through the green, there is no penalty.
Yes, you may remove loose impediments by any means provided your line of 
putt is not touched more than necessary.
Yes,  you may not intentionally test the surface in doing so or press 
anything down.

3.  This is incorrect. Rule 16-1e makes clear you must not stand astride 
your line of putt, but Decision 16-1e/2 (introduced in 2006) says there is 
no penalty if it is just a short putt - - whatever that is!
4. Not quite right, away from your line of putt, you may test the surface of 
the green by pressing down, for instance with your foot, but you may not 
roughen or scrape the surface or roll a ball on it (16-1d).

5. A practice swing is not a stroke. That is why it does not count in the 
score.  The penalty is for causing the ball to move by any action at all.
Yes the ball must be replaced.  Failure to replace the ball turns a one 
stroke penalty into a 2 stroke penalty under Rule 18-2a.

6. You may hold the flagstick with one hand and tap in with the other hand.

No, you must tap the ball in using a club.  Tapping in with the hand is a 
penalty for moving the ball (see 5 above)

7. If you hit a flagstick with a putt made from on the putting green, 
whether the stick is in the hole or on the ground, it's a two-stroke penalty 
or loss of hole in match play.

It is also the same penalty if your ball strikes an attended flagstick which 
is neither on the ground or in the hole.  Also, when playing from off the 
green and your ball strikes an attended flagstick or one removed from the 
hole the same penalty applies.

8. Once a caddie shows you the putting line, he must stop before you putt. 
Otherwise it's a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match play. This 
includes anyone showing you the line whole tending the flag.

Whether the flag is being attended is an irrelevance. Only your caddie or 
your partner or his caddie may show you your line of putt - not anyone.

9. You may not intentionally walk on the putting line or improve your 
putting line (other then to remove loose impediments and repair pitch 
marks). Breach of this rule is a two-stroke penalty or loss of hole in match 
play.

You may not touch your line of putt full stop, except for certain allowable 
actions of which there are 7 not just the 2 given (see Rule 16-1a)

10. It's OK to mark your ball multiple times, if necessary, to keep it from 
moving after is has come to rest. But don't press the ball down to mark it 
stay on a slope.

This one is unintelligible. You don't mark a ball to prevent it moving.

If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.



Malcolm

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:


> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before 
> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or an 
> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced 
> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.

Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
lies.  
cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind

Pierre

"Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>
>> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
>> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
>> an
>> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
>> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> lies.
> cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> Pierre

Read my sentence again, Peter.

Malcolm

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> 
> "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message 
> news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> >  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or 
> >> an
> >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
> >
> > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > lies.
> > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
> >
> > Pierre
> 
> Read my sentence again, Peter.
> 
My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
A thousand pardons...

Peter

M L Wadsworth in :

>1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
>small object.
>Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
>else's line of play or line of putt.

What about the putter as a temporary marker?
Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
but no accident so far.

Is this o.k. by the rules?

Ciao,

Paul

On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
> M L Wadsworth in :
> 
> >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a 
> >small object.
> >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone 
> >else's line of play or line of putt.
> 
> What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> but no accident so far.
> 
> Is this o.k. by the rules?

Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't 
have the time right now.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

On 22 Jun, 07:10, Peter Strauss  wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 07:34:05 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
>
> > "Peter Strauss"  wrote in message
> >news:t4rj73lt6ohsipgmt2k7pae412sbmm5vd0@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 22:18:19 +0100, "M L Wadsworth"
> > >  wrote:
>
> > >> If the ball is at rest on the green, you may mark its position. If before
> > >> you lift the ball it is moved by other than yourself, another player or
> > >> an
> > >> outside agency (e.g moved by wind or water) then the ball is not replaced
> > >> and the position of the ball is remarked at its new position.
>
> > > Au contraire, mon vieux:  wind and water are NOT outside agencies (see
> > > definitions).  If the ball is moved by either, it must be played as it
> > > lies.
> > > cf. 18-1/12 Ball Replaced and at Rest Is Thereafter Moved by Wind
>
> > > Pierre
>
> > Read my sentence again, Peter.
>
> My error...I read it as equating wind and water with outside agency.
> A thousand pardons...
>



Peter, you actually thought Malcolm had made a mistake???

Shame on you.

On Jun 22, 4:46 pm, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.

Decision 20-1/16 permits the use of "unusual" objects, including part
of a club.  It is only a recommendation that a ball-marker or other
small object be used, but bear in mind a recommendation isn't just a
casual use of words.  A player who chooses to use some other strange
method makes it more likely they will infringe the rule one day, or at
the very least find themselves involved in a bar-room debate !

--
"Clean mind, clean body:  take your pick."

On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>
> > M L Wadsworth in :
>
> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to be a
> > >small object.
> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near someone
> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>
> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and replace
> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter head,
> > but no accident so far.
>
> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>
> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
> have the time right now.
>

Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
the time, but I cba.

"johnty"  wrote in message 
news:1182529245.828686.71260@g4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 22 Jun, 16:46, Mark Myers  wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:52:57 +0200, Paul Schmitz-Josten said...
>>
>> > M L Wadsworth in :
>>
>> > >1.  You cannot mark the position of the ball with anything.  It has to 
>> > >be a
>> > >small object.
>> > >Yes, you may use a tee peg but not recommended if anywhere near 
>> > >someone
>> > >else's line of play or line of putt.
>>
>> > What about the putter as a temporary marker?
>> > Sometimes I place the putter head closely behind the ball, using the
>> > alignment aid line as a reference for the ball position. Then I hold it
>> > steady (sometimes putting my foot on it), lift the ball, clean and 
>> > replace
>> > it immediately. I know that I'm responsible for not moving the putter 
>> > head,
>> > but no accident so far.
>>
>> > Is this o.k. by the rules?
>>
>> Yes it is. Well I'm pretty sure it is. I should look it up, but don't
>> have the time right now.
>>
>
> Yes, there's a decision about it. I should look it up, too.  I do have
> the time, but I cba.
>
>

20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth in :

>20-1/16 Method Used to Mark Position of Ball
>"....Examples of methods of marking the position of a ball which are not 
>recommended, but are permissible, are as follows:
>placing the toe of a club at the side of, or behind, the ball........"

Thank you, Malcolm, for the precise enlightenment.

Ciao,

Paul