I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days golfing 
amongst friends old and new.

Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and Malcolm's) was 
real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm still glowing and think I 
will be doing for a while yet.

Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you today, 
even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it would be good to 
see you both again sometime.

Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for next 
year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is good even if I 
personally don't contribute much to the end result.

I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to seeing 
the many photos that were taken.

Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to have a 
proper word to.

Judy

Judy wrote:
> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days golfing 
> amongst friends old and new.
> 
> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and Malcolm's) was 
> real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm still glowing and think I 
> will be doing for a while yet.
> 
> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you today, 
> even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it would be good to 
> see you both again sometime.
> 
> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for next 
> year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is good even if I 
> personally don't contribute much to the end result.
> 
> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to seeing 
> the many photos that were taken.
> 
> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to have a 
> proper word to.
> 
> Judy 
> 
> 
Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
excuse to come over for a week's trip.

The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
Plate for another year.

Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
golf club world.

Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
can make it just as well supported as HP2007.

Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
or warning. Top chaps!

Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
hadn't made such a drama of it all.

--
Durram

Judy wrote:
> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days golfing 
> amongst friends old and new.
> 
> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and Malcolm's) was 
> real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm still glowing and think I 
> will be doing for a while yet.
> 
> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you today, 
> even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it would be good to 
> see you both again sometime.
> 
> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for next 
> year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is good even if I 
> personally don't contribute much to the end result.
> 
> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to seeing 
> the many photos that were taken.
> 
> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to have a 
> proper word to.
> 
> Judy 
> 
> 
Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
excuse to come over for a week's trip.

The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
Plate for another year.

Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
golf club world.

Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
can make it just as well supported as HP2007.

Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
or warning. Top chaps!

Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
hadn't made such a drama of it all.

--
Durram

How can one play two rounds of golf with the yips, the first to a 30 
handicap on a course where too many times we had to search for balls; the 
second to a 40 handicap on a course with significantly varying green speeds: 
loose both matches which, had they been won would have brought the Morton 
Plate South thereby letting the team down rather, and still enjoy a great 
two days golf?

Answer: play in the annual North v South get-together.  Already I am looking 
forward to next year.

So the South lost again – but only just.
Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 12 
months!
But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how the 
ladies might have a better chance in the match play.

My congratulations and thanks to Demetri for an excellently-organised event.
It was obvious that a lot of care had gone into arranging the playing groups 
for optimum enjoyment.
The little touches of his own brand of humour added to the uniqueness of 
this annual event.
The tee times of 1300 on Sunday fitted well with dinner at 2000.
I was grateful for not having to get up at the crack of dawn on Monday and 
to be able to enjoy a leisurely breakfast with friends, though possibly a 
1030 or even 1000 start time would have been better, had the slot been 
available to us.

Thanks too to Mick for organising the shirts and to John Laird for his help 
with getting the Sweepstake monies quickly sorted for the end of the 
prize-giving.

On Sunday I had the pleasure of partnering Maggie.
Although she carried me as a passenger on the back nine, I was able to make 
the odd contribution going out with a chip in from off the green on the 2nd 
for a rare birdie.
Our match against Bill Seddon and John Turner was closely fought being all 
square going into 8 of the holes.
Bill and John won by just one hole when Bill sank a 12 foot putt from off 
the green on the 16th.  The last two holes were halved.

Congratulations to Bill, who claimed to have only played 17 holes this year, 
who went on to win the coveted Williams Cup and who now has the great honour 
of arranging next year’s event.

Of my singles Stableford match against Ken Hoyle the less I say the better.
My only hope of ever winning would have required Ken to have lost more balls 
than the entire four-ball had in their bags.
Well played Ken.  Not a great score I know, but with some of the greens cut 
to fairway length putting for the best was hard.
With us were Richard Brown and Nick Webster.  Richard was stroking some 
lovely shots all the way round – a very different Richard since last we 
played together.  A very creditable 31 points secured a much needed Southern 
win.
Nick on the other hand, was handicapped with a new and decidedly 
dodgy-looking Cleveland HiBore driver which surprising appears on the list 
of Conforming Driver Heads.  Any discount he may have had on the purchase 
price was probably wiped out in lost balls.

Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
John!!
Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.

I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.

Regards,
Malcolm

> Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
> always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
> relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
> man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
> John!!
> Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
> there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
> who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.
> 
> I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
> again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.
> 
> Regards,
> Malcolm 
> 
> 

Enjoyed my first UKSG outing,  and nice to play well yesterday.  Thanks 
to all my partners, both golfing and drinking.  Demetri deserves a 
further  thank you,  all ran excellently,  and I am sure everyone very 
much appreciates that.

Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.

Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
price above which I look elsewhere?

I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.

Thanks again.

Bill

> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> 
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> price above which I look elsewhere?
> 
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Bill

Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

Bill

On May 1, 12:49 am, Durram  wrote:

> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.

What's life without a little bit of drama ?  I can offer one
experience of my own, which is that organising this event is a sure-
fire way of guaranteeing that the previous year's winner won't walk
off as the winner again - not because they wouldn't want to, but
because it's almost impossible to concentrate on your golf with
everything else rattling around in your head ;-)

Our annual event is always a highlight in my golfing calendar (heck,
my social calendar too) and this year was no exception.  As ever, I
drove off thinking I'd managed somehow not to say goodbye to A and B,
and never spoke to C and D, but had meant to, but there are only so
many hours in the day.

Personal thanks to my playing partners, Nick Webster, Janet Homer, Ian
Clark, Mark Myers and Carl Lawton, for their company and wit (but
Nick, I think we were supposed to sledge the opposition, not each
other :-)), to Simon Ireland for not snoring all night, and to Demetri
D and Malcolm Wadsworth for pulling out all the stops to get
everything sorted after earlier plans fell apart.  Judging by the
weather, I think we were meant to return to Hawskstone Park - it was
positively summery, although it being still April had an inevitable
effect on the course conditions.  It was interesting to observe how
the greater maturity of the older course had allowed it to stand up to
the early warmth and lack of rain this spring.

Talk of next year, and venue, and format, can be left til later.  For
now, I am quite happy to reflect on another successful bash.  My best
wishes to everyone who did make it, and to those who, for one reason
or another, could not.

And finally, for those who said they missed my (badly formatted or
otherwise), sign-offs...

--
"Where are we going, and why are we in this hand-basket ?"

Durram wrote:
> Judy wrote:
>> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days 
>> golfing amongst friends old and new.
>>
>> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and 
>> Malcolm's) was real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm 
>> still glowing and think I will be doing for a while yet.
>>
>> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you 
>> today, even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it 
>> would be good to see you both again sometime.
>>
>> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for 
>> next year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is 
>> good even if I personally don't contribute much to the end result.
>>
>> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to 
>> seeing the many photos that were taken.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to 
>> have a proper word to.
>>
>> Judy
>>
> Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
> on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
> playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
> golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
> Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
> excuse to come over for a week's trip.
> 
> The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
> victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
> me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
> 10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
> Plate for another year.
> 
> Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
> enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
> stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
> group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
> advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
> dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
> that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
> internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
> forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
> golf club world.
> 
> Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
> year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
> experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
> can make it just as well supported as HP2007.
> 
> Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
> Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
> immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
> or warning. Top chaps!
> 
> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.
> 
> -- 
> Durram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Ditto to all the sentiments offered by all the posters so far on an 
highly enjoyable weekend.

Fine weather, fine wine (thanks Malcolm), fine company and even some 
fine golf (well done Bill).

Nice job Demetri and Malcolm. I'll certainly be back and look forward to
meeting up with all you fellow flag operators next year if not sooner.

A highly enjoyable 4 ball on sunday against Demetri and Dave, partnered 
with Paul who managed to offset the full cost of his brand new driver by 
winning the longest drive prize will serve me well in the 19th back at 
my own club, as will the German translation of good shot.

A close fought match against John Laird with Mark was also great. I even 
had thoughts that the south could win. Doh !!

Thanks to Mark and John Turner for doing the extra days golf and the 
Rules "discussion" over dinner on Saturday with Malcolm.
It is far easier to follow "in person".

Bring on USG2008 and a win for the South !!

-- 
Benway

On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 퍝,  said...
> 
> > Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> > what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> > 
> > Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> > timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> > it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> > good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> > a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> > price above which I look elsewhere?
> > 
> > I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
certainly not a consensus.

My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
this year's was no exception.

The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 

Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
prestige of FoA is also reasonable.

http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
england, sunday specials)

I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 +0100,  said...
>>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
>>> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>>>
>>> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
>>> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
>>> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
>>> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
>>> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
>>> price above which I look elsewhere?
>>>
>>> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!
> 
> As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
> couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
> pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
> golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
> However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
> certainly not a consensus.
> 
> My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
> but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
> this year's was no exception.
> 
> The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
> cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
> timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
> having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
> have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 
> 
> Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
> really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
> personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
> 'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
> prestige of FoA is also reasonable.
> 
> http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
> available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
> england, sunday specials)
> 
> I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
> more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
> considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
> last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
> comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
> may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.
> 

Many but not all, special deals finish at the end of April, weather 
cannot be 'guaranteed at any time' but the later the event gets the more 
congested the golfing calender is and I would prefer April to May but 
like MM would probably go anyway, whatever.

Golfbreaks.com ask for high deposit and settlement a month in advance 
and if you ring the venue direct you can probably get the same deal with 
looser Ts & Cs and a 'perk' for yourself. The deal I had originally 
negotiated with FoA was the same as offered through the golfbreaks 
people but with lower deposit and payment on departure, however, as we 
know the Ts weren't dotted and the Is not crossed (apart from my own 
when I found out) and with hindsight if I'd used the professional 
brokers to walk me through the whole process we'd have been there instead.

You also might like to try using this method: booking a course for the 
Sunday and Monday and finding a hotel not necessarily on-site but nearby 
which could wine and dine us on the evening. A real gem of a website to 
plan this from is http://www.hotelsneargolfcourses.co.uk and is what I 
would have used last year if it had been available.

Type in a place where the Southerners can get to easily e.g. Northampton 
and the Bob's yer uncle and Fanny's yer Aunt you get a list of courses 
to check out and a list of hotels near each one to use up your phone 
credits on.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Durram

"Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message 
news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 [£114 
>> sharing -vide next post] for
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, it 
> gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of good 
> greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to a date 
> later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max price 
> above which I look elsewhere?
>
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill

Simply for information:
Hill Valley 2000 dates were probably similar to 2001 (Pat Williams will 
know)
Hill Valley 2001 was on Thu-Fri 17-18 May
Ulsthorpe Court 2002: Thu-Fri 16-17 May
Abbey Hotel 2003: Sun-Mon 11-12 May (IIRC switched to Sun-Mon for a better 
deal at Abbey Hotel)
Abbey Hotel 2004: Sun-Mon 9-10 May
Hawkstone Park 2005: Sun-Mon 8-9 May
Hawkstone Park 2006: Sun-Mon 14-15 May
Hawkstone Park 2007: Sun-Mon 29-30 April (I believe earlier because at FOA 
rates changed after end April)

Malcolm

Judy wrote:
> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days golfing 
> amongst friends old and new.
> 
> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and Malcolm's) was 
> real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm still glowing and think I 
> will be doing for a while yet.
> 
> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you today, 
> even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it would be good to 
> see you both again sometime.
> 
> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for next 
> year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is good even if I 
> personally don't contribute much to the end result.
> 
> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to seeing 
> the many photos that were taken.
> 
> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to have a 
> proper word to.
> 
> Judy 
> 
> 
Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
excuse to come over for a week's trip.

The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
Plate for another year.

Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
golf club world.

Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
can make it just as well supported as HP2007.

Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
or warning. Top chaps!

Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
hadn't made such a drama of it all.

--
Durram

How can one play two rounds of golf with the yips, the first to a 30 
handicap on a course where too many times we had to search for balls; the 
second to a 40 handicap on a course with significantly varying green speeds: 
loose both matches which, had they been won would have brought the Morton 
Plate South thereby letting the team down rather, and still enjoy a great 
two days golf?

Answer: play in the annual North v South get-together.  Already I am looking 
forward to next year.

So the South lost again – but only just.
Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 12 
months!
But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how the 
ladies might have a better chance in the match play.

My congratulations and thanks to Demetri for an excellently-organised event.
It was obvious that a lot of care had gone into arranging the playing groups 
for optimum enjoyment.
The little touches of his own brand of humour added to the uniqueness of 
this annual event.
The tee times of 1300 on Sunday fitted well with dinner at 2000.
I was grateful for not having to get up at the crack of dawn on Monday and 
to be able to enjoy a leisurely breakfast with friends, though possibly a 
1030 or even 1000 start time would have been better, had the slot been 
available to us.

Thanks too to Mick for organising the shirts and to John Laird for his help 
with getting the Sweepstake monies quickly sorted for the end of the 
prize-giving.

On Sunday I had the pleasure of partnering Maggie.
Although she carried me as a passenger on the back nine, I was able to make 
the odd contribution going out with a chip in from off the green on the 2nd 
for a rare birdie.
Our match against Bill Seddon and John Turner was closely fought being all 
square going into 8 of the holes.
Bill and John won by just one hole when Bill sank a 12 foot putt from off 
the green on the 16th.  The last two holes were halved.

Congratulations to Bill, who claimed to have only played 17 holes this year, 
who went on to win the coveted Williams Cup and who now has the great honour 
of arranging next year’s event.

Of my singles Stableford match against Ken Hoyle the less I say the better.
My only hope of ever winning would have required Ken to have lost more balls 
than the entire four-ball had in their bags.
Well played Ken.  Not a great score I know, but with some of the greens cut 
to fairway length putting for the best was hard.
With us were Richard Brown and Nick Webster.  Richard was stroking some 
lovely shots all the way round – a very different Richard since last we 
played together.  A very creditable 31 points secured a much needed Southern 
win.
Nick on the other hand, was handicapped with a new and decidedly 
dodgy-looking Cleveland HiBore driver which surprising appears on the list 
of Conforming Driver Heads.  Any discount he may have had on the purchase 
price was probably wiped out in lost balls.

Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
John!!
Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.

I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.

Regards,
Malcolm

> Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
> always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
> relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
> man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
> John!!
> Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
> there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
> who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.
> 
> I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
> again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.
> 
> Regards,
> Malcolm 
> 
> 

Enjoyed my first UKSG outing,  and nice to play well yesterday.  Thanks 
to all my partners, both golfing and drinking.  Demetri deserves a 
further  thank you,  all ran excellently,  and I am sure everyone very 
much appreciates that.

Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.

Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
price above which I look elsewhere?

I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.

Thanks again.

Bill

> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> 
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> price above which I look elsewhere?
> 
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Bill

Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

Bill

On May 1, 12:49 am, Durram  wrote:

> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.

What's life without a little bit of drama ?  I can offer one
experience of my own, which is that organising this event is a sure-
fire way of guaranteeing that the previous year's winner won't walk
off as the winner again - not because they wouldn't want to, but
because it's almost impossible to concentrate on your golf with
everything else rattling around in your head ;-)

Our annual event is always a highlight in my golfing calendar (heck,
my social calendar too) and this year was no exception.  As ever, I
drove off thinking I'd managed somehow not to say goodbye to A and B,
and never spoke to C and D, but had meant to, but there are only so
many hours in the day.

Personal thanks to my playing partners, Nick Webster, Janet Homer, Ian
Clark, Mark Myers and Carl Lawton, for their company and wit (but
Nick, I think we were supposed to sledge the opposition, not each
other :-)), to Simon Ireland for not snoring all night, and to Demetri
D and Malcolm Wadsworth for pulling out all the stops to get
everything sorted after earlier plans fell apart.  Judging by the
weather, I think we were meant to return to Hawskstone Park - it was
positively summery, although it being still April had an inevitable
effect on the course conditions.  It was interesting to observe how
the greater maturity of the older course had allowed it to stand up to
the early warmth and lack of rain this spring.

Talk of next year, and venue, and format, can be left til later.  For
now, I am quite happy to reflect on another successful bash.  My best
wishes to everyone who did make it, and to those who, for one reason
or another, could not.

And finally, for those who said they missed my (badly formatted or
otherwise), sign-offs...

--
"Where are we going, and why are we in this hand-basket ?"

Durram wrote:
> Judy wrote:
>> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days 
>> golfing amongst friends old and new.
>>
>> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and 
>> Malcolm's) was real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm 
>> still glowing and think I will be doing for a while yet.
>>
>> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you 
>> today, even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it 
>> would be good to see you both again sometime.
>>
>> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for 
>> next year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is 
>> good even if I personally don't contribute much to the end result.
>>
>> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to 
>> seeing the many photos that were taken.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to 
>> have a proper word to.
>>
>> Judy
>>
> Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
> on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
> playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
> golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
> Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
> excuse to come over for a week's trip.
> 
> The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
> victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
> me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
> 10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
> Plate for another year.
> 
> Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
> enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
> stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
> group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
> advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
> dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
> that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
> internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
> forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
> golf club world.
> 
> Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
> year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
> experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
> can make it just as well supported as HP2007.
> 
> Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
> Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
> immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
> or warning. Top chaps!
> 
> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.
> 
> -- 
> Durram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Ditto to all the sentiments offered by all the posters so far on an 
highly enjoyable weekend.

Fine weather, fine wine (thanks Malcolm), fine company and even some 
fine golf (well done Bill).

Nice job Demetri and Malcolm. I'll certainly be back and look forward to
meeting up with all you fellow flag operators next year if not sooner.

A highly enjoyable 4 ball on sunday against Demetri and Dave, partnered 
with Paul who managed to offset the full cost of his brand new driver by 
winning the longest drive prize will serve me well in the 19th back at 
my own club, as will the German translation of good shot.

A close fought match against John Laird with Mark was also great. I even 
had thoughts that the south could win. Doh !!

Thanks to Mark and John Turner for doing the extra days golf and the 
Rules "discussion" over dinner on Saturday with Malcolm.
It is far easier to follow "in person".

Bring on USG2008 and a win for the South !!

-- 
Benway

On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 퍝,  said...
> 
> > Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> > what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> > 
> > Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> > timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> > it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> > good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> > a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> > price above which I look elsewhere?
> > 
> > I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
certainly not a consensus.

My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
this year's was no exception.

The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 

Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
prestige of FoA is also reasonable.

http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
england, sunday specials)

I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 +0100,  said...
>>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
>>> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>>>
>>> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
>>> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
>>> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
>>> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
>>> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
>>> price above which I look elsewhere?
>>>
>>> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!
> 
> As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
> couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
> pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
> golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
> However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
> certainly not a consensus.
> 
> My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
> but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
> this year's was no exception.
> 
> The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
> cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
> timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
> having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
> have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 
> 
> Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
> really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
> personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
> 'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
> prestige of FoA is also reasonable.
> 
> http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
> available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
> england, sunday specials)
> 
> I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
> more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
> considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
> last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
> comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
> may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.
> 

Many but not all, special deals finish at the end of April, weather 
cannot be 'guaranteed at any time' but the later the event gets the more 
congested the golfing calender is and I would prefer April to May but 
like MM would probably go anyway, whatever.

Golfbreaks.com ask for high deposit and settlement a month in advance 
and if you ring the venue direct you can probably get the same deal with 
looser Ts & Cs and a 'perk' for yourself. The deal I had originally 
negotiated with FoA was the same as offered through the golfbreaks 
people but with lower deposit and payment on departure, however, as we 
know the Ts weren't dotted and the Is not crossed (apart from my own 
when I found out) and with hindsight if I'd used the professional 
brokers to walk me through the whole process we'd have been there instead.

You also might like to try using this method: booking a course for the 
Sunday and Monday and finding a hotel not necessarily on-site but nearby 
which could wine and dine us on the evening. A real gem of a website to 
plan this from is http://www.hotelsneargolfcourses.co.uk and is what I 
would have used last year if it had been available.

Type in a place where the Southerners can get to easily e.g. Northampton 
and the Bob's yer uncle and Fanny's yer Aunt you get a list of courses 
to check out and a list of hotels near each one to use up your phone 
credits on.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Durram

"Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message 
news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 [£114 
>> sharing -vide next post] for
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, it 
> gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of good 
> greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to a date 
> later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max price 
> above which I look elsewhere?
>
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill

Simply for information:
Hill Valley 2000 dates were probably similar to 2001 (Pat Williams will 
know)
Hill Valley 2001 was on Thu-Fri 17-18 May
Ulsthorpe Court 2002: Thu-Fri 16-17 May
Abbey Hotel 2003: Sun-Mon 11-12 May (IIRC switched to Sun-Mon for a better 
deal at Abbey Hotel)
Abbey Hotel 2004: Sun-Mon 9-10 May
Hawkstone Park 2005: Sun-Mon 8-9 May
Hawkstone Park 2006: Sun-Mon 14-15 May
Hawkstone Park 2007: Sun-Mon 29-30 April (I believe earlier because at FOA 
rates changed after end April)

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth wrote:
> "Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message 
> news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 [£114 
>>> sharing -vide next post] for
>> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>>
>> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
>> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, it 
>> gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of good 
>> greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to a date 
>> later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max price 
>> above which I look elsewhere?
>>
>> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Bill
> 
> Simply for information:
> Hill Valley 2000 dates were probably similar to 2001 (Pat Williams will 
> know)
> Hill Valley 2001 was on Thu-Fri 17-18 May
> Ulsthorpe Court 2002: Thu-Fri 16-17 May
> Abbey Hotel 2003: Sun-Mon 11-12 May (IIRC switched to Sun-Mon for a better 
> deal at Abbey Hotel)
> Abbey Hotel 2004: Sun-Mon 9-10 May
> Hawkstone Park 2005: Sun-Mon 8-9 May
> Hawkstone Park 2006: Sun-Mon 14-15 May
> Hawkstone Park 2007: Sun-Mon 29-30 April (I believe earlier because at FOA 
> rates changed after end April)
> 
> Malcolm 
> 
> 


Thanks Malcolm,  I'll hopefully get to ring FOA tomorrow to ask about 
rates.  Their website still advertises rates as being available at £114 
so we might be lucky!

Bill

Well played Bill - great to watch.
Thanks to all concerned for great couple of days.
Count me in for the FoA in 2008



"Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message
news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> > Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John
Turner –
> > always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he
refused me
> > relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a
hard
> > man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get
> > John!!
> > Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl
Lawton,
> > there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark
Myers
> > who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.
> >
> > I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was
once
> > again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Malcolm
> >
> >
>
> Enjoyed my first UKSG outing,  and nice to play well yesterday.  Thanks
> to all my partners, both golfing and drinking.  Demetri deserves a
> further  thank you,  all ran excellently,  and I am sure everyone very
> much appreciates that.
>
> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later,
> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of
> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to
> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max
> price above which I look elsewhere?
>
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill

Likewise, my thanks to DD and his willing helpers for arranging and
sorting the bash.
Thanks to my playing partners for the two days, JG Snr and Jnr, Alan
Cornick, Dave Robinson and Janet Homer. A most enjoyable two days
golf. Special thanks to Janet for the painkillers on the 8th - my golf
started to pick up a couple of holes later, much to JG Jnr's concern.
Definitely one of my social/golf events of the year (possibly my only
socail/golf event of the year if the first 4 months golf playing
opportunites are anything to go by!)

Apologies to the Gibb clan for not fulfilling my prediction of taking
two points - at least I got 1 and a half. If it had been a card
playoff on day 2, then it would've been two points...........

Likewise, I claim a moral card playoff victory in my side bet with our
flat earth friend from Newmarket!! (Hi Ian - hope you had a good time
on your "team-building" outing up in The Dales.)

Roll on USG (FoA) 2008.

Cheers,
Mick

On 1 May, 10:31, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> So the South lost again - but only just.
> Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 12
> months!
> But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how the
> ladies might have a better chance in the match play.
>
I too would like to thank Demetri and Malcolm for organising a very
enjoyable weekend at Hawkstone, made better for me by the way that I
played obviously helped.

I woulkd also like to thank my playing partners and fellow competitors
(Ken, JayGee Jnr and Chris on Sunday, and Malcolm, Nick and Ken again
on Monday) for putting up with my somewhat erratic play.
Congratulations to Bill for winning well on Monday and I too look
forward to 2008 be it FOA or wherever he thinks he can get us a good
deal. Angela thoroughly enjoyed herself and will be coming again if
she can get the day(s) off work.

I quoted from Malcolms post about his request not to have a format
change because I generally do not like the Monday format of Matchplay
Stableford. Once you get more than about five points behind, the match
is more than likely to be lost. Last year I was three points behind,
five holes to play and lost my ball on the 14th. My oppponent got a
net birdie and suddenly I was six down, four to play and the game was
lost. On Monday, Nick and I were very close until the last four holes
until I put a spurt on 15,16 & 17. All I can suggest is that we have a
dual matchplay singles for the Morton Plate and record the individual
Stableford for the Williams Cup.

All criticisms gratefully accepted........

Richard

Judy wrote:
> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days golfing 
> amongst friends old and new.
> 
> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and Malcolm's) was 
> real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm still glowing and think I 
> will be doing for a while yet.
> 
> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you today, 
> even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it would be good to 
> see you both again sometime.
> 
> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for next 
> year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is good even if I 
> personally don't contribute much to the end result.
> 
> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to seeing 
> the many photos that were taken.
> 
> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to have a 
> proper word to.
> 
> Judy 
> 
> 
Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
excuse to come over for a week's trip.

The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
Plate for another year.

Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
golf club world.

Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
can make it just as well supported as HP2007.

Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
or warning. Top chaps!

Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
hadn't made such a drama of it all.

--
Durram

How can one play two rounds of golf with the yips, the first to a 30 
handicap on a course where too many times we had to search for balls; the 
second to a 40 handicap on a course with significantly varying green speeds: 
loose both matches which, had they been won would have brought the Morton 
Plate South thereby letting the team down rather, and still enjoy a great 
two days golf?

Answer: play in the annual North v South get-together.  Already I am looking 
forward to next year.

So the South lost again – but only just.
Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 12 
months!
But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how the 
ladies might have a better chance in the match play.

My congratulations and thanks to Demetri for an excellently-organised event.
It was obvious that a lot of care had gone into arranging the playing groups 
for optimum enjoyment.
The little touches of his own brand of humour added to the uniqueness of 
this annual event.
The tee times of 1300 on Sunday fitted well with dinner at 2000.
I was grateful for not having to get up at the crack of dawn on Monday and 
to be able to enjoy a leisurely breakfast with friends, though possibly a 
1030 or even 1000 start time would have been better, had the slot been 
available to us.

Thanks too to Mick for organising the shirts and to John Laird for his help 
with getting the Sweepstake monies quickly sorted for the end of the 
prize-giving.

On Sunday I had the pleasure of partnering Maggie.
Although she carried me as a passenger on the back nine, I was able to make 
the odd contribution going out with a chip in from off the green on the 2nd 
for a rare birdie.
Our match against Bill Seddon and John Turner was closely fought being all 
square going into 8 of the holes.
Bill and John won by just one hole when Bill sank a 12 foot putt from off 
the green on the 16th.  The last two holes were halved.

Congratulations to Bill, who claimed to have only played 17 holes this year, 
who went on to win the coveted Williams Cup and who now has the great honour 
of arranging next year’s event.

Of my singles Stableford match against Ken Hoyle the less I say the better.
My only hope of ever winning would have required Ken to have lost more balls 
than the entire four-ball had in their bags.
Well played Ken.  Not a great score I know, but with some of the greens cut 
to fairway length putting for the best was hard.
With us were Richard Brown and Nick Webster.  Richard was stroking some 
lovely shots all the way round – a very different Richard since last we 
played together.  A very creditable 31 points secured a much needed Southern 
win.
Nick on the other hand, was handicapped with a new and decidedly 
dodgy-looking Cleveland HiBore driver which surprising appears on the list 
of Conforming Driver Heads.  Any discount he may have had on the purchase 
price was probably wiped out in lost balls.

Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
John!!
Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.

I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.

Regards,
Malcolm

> Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John Turner – 
> always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he refused me 
> relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a hard 
> man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get 
> John!!
> Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl Lawton, 
> there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark Myers 
> who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.
> 
> I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was once 
> again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.
> 
> Regards,
> Malcolm 
> 
> 

Enjoyed my first UKSG outing,  and nice to play well yesterday.  Thanks 
to all my partners, both golfing and drinking.  Demetri deserves a 
further  thank you,  all ran excellently,  and I am sure everyone very 
much appreciates that.

Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.

Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
price above which I look elsewhere?

I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.

Thanks again.

Bill

> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> 
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> price above which I look elsewhere?
> 
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Thanks again.
> 
> Bill

Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

Bill

On May 1, 12:49 am, Durram  wrote:

> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.

What's life without a little bit of drama ?  I can offer one
experience of my own, which is that organising this event is a sure-
fire way of guaranteeing that the previous year's winner won't walk
off as the winner again - not because they wouldn't want to, but
because it's almost impossible to concentrate on your golf with
everything else rattling around in your head ;-)

Our annual event is always a highlight in my golfing calendar (heck,
my social calendar too) and this year was no exception.  As ever, I
drove off thinking I'd managed somehow not to say goodbye to A and B,
and never spoke to C and D, but had meant to, but there are only so
many hours in the day.

Personal thanks to my playing partners, Nick Webster, Janet Homer, Ian
Clark, Mark Myers and Carl Lawton, for their company and wit (but
Nick, I think we were supposed to sledge the opposition, not each
other :-)), to Simon Ireland for not snoring all night, and to Demetri
D and Malcolm Wadsworth for pulling out all the stops to get
everything sorted after earlier plans fell apart.  Judging by the
weather, I think we were meant to return to Hawskstone Park - it was
positively summery, although it being still April had an inevitable
effect on the course conditions.  It was interesting to observe how
the greater maturity of the older course had allowed it to stand up to
the early warmth and lack of rain this spring.

Talk of next year, and venue, and format, can be left til later.  For
now, I am quite happy to reflect on another successful bash.  My best
wishes to everyone who did make it, and to those who, for one reason
or another, could not.

And finally, for those who said they missed my (badly formatted or
otherwise), sign-offs...

--
"Where are we going, and why are we in this hand-basket ?"

Durram wrote:
> Judy wrote:
>> I hope everyone had a safe journey home from a brilliant 2 days 
>> golfing amongst friends old and new.
>>
>> Well done Demetri. The end result of all your hard work (and 
>> Malcolm's) was real enjoyment for everyone, and what weather! I'm 
>> still glowing and think I will be doing for a while yet.
>>
>> Paul. Lovely to meet you and your wife Sonja, and to play with you 
>> today, even if you did beat me. A long way for you to come, but it 
>> would be good to see you both again sometime.
>>
>> Another win for the North, but talk of possibly a different format for 
>> next year. Sour Grapes? Who am I to say? The competitive banter is 
>> good even if I personally don't contribute much to the end result.
>>
>> I hope the results will be published as usual and I look forward to 
>> seeing the many photos that were taken.
>>
>> Thanks again everyone, and apologies to those I didn't get chance to 
>> have a proper word to.
>>
>> Judy
>>
> Congratulations go Bill Seddon who won the Williams Cup with 38 points
> on the Monday individual phase of the event. Second went to Chris Homer,
> playing with hickory shafted clubs, and who was the best turned out
> golfer with tie, plus 4s and all the gear. Third prize went to Paul
> Schmitz-Josten who came all the way from Germany using the event as an
> excuse to come over for a week's trip.
> 
> The South Team Captain Simon Ireland almost led his team to a rare
> victory and despite my own personal struggle with the yips which helped
> me lose on both days, the team match was a very close finish with North
> 10 South 9. Chris Booth as captain of the North team retained the Morton
> Plate for another year.
> 
> Because of my total fear with a putter in my hand I can't really say I
> enjoyed the golf but the layout and backdrop of the Hawkstone course is
> stunning. The bits that really made it for me is the diversity of the
> group as a whole and how everybody goes out of their way to take
> advantage of the opportunity to chat in real life which adds an extra
> dimension to our posts in this forum. Such meetings do obviously mean
> that a strange in unnatural bond within the virtual world of the
> internet is formed but because of the diverse and open nature of the
> forum means that any form of cliquishness is avoided unlike the normal
> golf club world.
> 
> Bill Seddon has the dubious honour of organising a similar event next
> year and I am confident he will make it a less traumatic birthing
> experience that I did and I'm looking forward to it already. I hope we
> can make it just as well supported as HP2007.
> 
> Thanks for everybody that helped during the event, Malcolm Wadsworth,
> Mark Myers and John Laird who were all very gracious and stepped in
> immediately when jobs were being delegated without any prior arrangement
> or warning. Top chaps!
> 
> Chief thanks go however to all that turned up and all those that
> intended to come but who for various reasons couldn't finally make it
> which made the job of organising the event so much easier I just wish I
> hadn't made such a drama of it all.
> 
> -- 
> Durram
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Ditto to all the sentiments offered by all the posters so far on an 
highly enjoyable weekend.

Fine weather, fine wine (thanks Malcolm), fine company and even some 
fine golf (well done Bill).

Nice job Demetri and Malcolm. I'll certainly be back and look forward to
meeting up with all you fellow flag operators next year if not sooner.

A highly enjoyable 4 ball on sunday against Demetri and Dave, partnered 
with Paul who managed to offset the full cost of his brand new driver by 
winning the longest drive prize will serve me well in the 19th back at 
my own club, as will the German translation of good shot.

A close fought match against John Laird with Mark was also great. I even 
had thoughts that the south could win. Doh !!

Thanks to Mark and John Turner for doing the extra days golf and the 
Rules "discussion" over dinner on Saturday with Malcolm.
It is far easier to follow "in person".

Bring on USG2008 and a win for the South !!

-- 
Benway

On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 퍝,  said...
> 
> > Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
> > what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
> > 
> > Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> > timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
> > it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
> > good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
> > a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
> > price above which I look elsewhere?
> > 
> > I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
> 
> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!

As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
certainly not a consensus.

My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
this year's was no exception.

The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 

Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
prestige of FoA is also reasonable.

http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
england, sunday specials)

I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Tue, 01 May 2007 10:57:23 +0100,  said...
>>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for 
>>> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>>>
>>> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
>>> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, 
>>> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of 
>>> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to 
>>> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max 
>>> price above which I look elsewhere?
>>>
>>> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>> Correction already,  £114 for FOA if sharing.  I think!
> 
> As a previous organiser, I had a discussion about timing of the event a 
> couple of years ago, and the upshot was that there was a feeling that 
> pushing it later into the season was likely to conflict with people's 
> golfing commitments at home, as the golfing season gets underway proper. 
> However I'd stress that was only a feeling I got from a few people, and 
> certainly not a consensus.
> 
> My own opinion is that I suspect that the end of April is about right, 
> but whenever it happens I'll be there. It's a great couple of days and 
> this year's was no exception.
> 
> The greens this year were unusually bad, being rock hard and in some 
> cases seemingly in their death throes, and I'm not sure I'd base the 
> timing of the event on them. Green condition is unpredictable, and HP, 
> having had fine greens for the last two years, is the last place I would 
> have expected to find the greens in such a difficult condition. 
> 
> Of course, moving it to later on will also be a bit more expensive. I 
> really can't speak for anyone else, so again I'll give the entirely 
> personal opinion that a cost around the 100-110 GBP mark for an 
> 'ordinary' venue is reasonable. 20 quid more for somewhere with the 
> prestige of FoA is also reasonable.
> 
> http://www.golfbreaks.com/ is quite useful to get an idea of what's 
> available, if you don't already know about it. (try special offers, 
> england, sunday specials)
> 
> I could also say that moving it later in the year is likely to give you 
> more predictable weather - that's one of the reasons that I was 
> considering going as far forward as mid to late May when I organised 
> last year - but after this year's solid sunshine I suppose that when it 
> comes to the weather, you take what you get and enjoy yourself come what 
> may. That was probably the best weather we've ever had at this event.
> 

Many but not all, special deals finish at the end of April, weather 
cannot be 'guaranteed at any time' but the later the event gets the more 
congested the golfing calender is and I would prefer April to May but 
like MM would probably go anyway, whatever.

Golfbreaks.com ask for high deposit and settlement a month in advance 
and if you ring the venue direct you can probably get the same deal with 
looser Ts & Cs and a 'perk' for yourself. The deal I had originally 
negotiated with FoA was the same as offered through the golfbreaks 
people but with lower deposit and payment on departure, however, as we 
know the Ts weren't dotted and the Is not crossed (apart from my own 
when I found out) and with hindsight if I'd used the professional 
brokers to walk me through the whole process we'd have been there instead.

You also might like to try using this method: booking a course for the 
Sunday and Monday and finding a hotel not necessarily on-site but nearby 
which could wine and dine us on the evening. A real gem of a website to 
plan this from is http://www.hotelsneargolfcourses.co.uk and is what I 
would have used last year if it had been available.

Type in a place where the Southerners can get to easily e.g. Northampton 
and the Bob's yer uncle and Fanny's yer Aunt you get a list of courses 
to check out and a list of hotels near each one to use up your phone 
credits on.

Hope this helps,
-- 
Durram

"Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message 
news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 [£114 
>> sharing -vide next post] for
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, it 
> gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of good 
> greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to a date 
> later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max price 
> above which I look elsewhere?
>
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill

Simply for information:
Hill Valley 2000 dates were probably similar to 2001 (Pat Williams will 
know)
Hill Valley 2001 was on Thu-Fri 17-18 May
Ulsthorpe Court 2002: Thu-Fri 16-17 May
Abbey Hotel 2003: Sun-Mon 11-12 May (IIRC switched to Sun-Mon for a better 
deal at Abbey Hotel)
Abbey Hotel 2004: Sun-Mon 9-10 May
Hawkstone Park 2005: Sun-Mon 8-9 May
Hawkstone Park 2006: Sun-Mon 14-15 May
Hawkstone Park 2007: Sun-Mon 29-30 April (I believe earlier because at FOA 
rates changed after end April)

Malcolm

M L Wadsworth wrote:
> "Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message 
> news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>>> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 [£114 
>>> sharing -vide next post] for
>> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>>
>> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the 
>> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later, it 
>> gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of good 
>> greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to a date 
>> later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max price 
>> above which I look elsewhere?
>>
>> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>>
>> Thanks again.
>>
>> Bill
> 
> Simply for information:
> Hill Valley 2000 dates were probably similar to 2001 (Pat Williams will 
> know)
> Hill Valley 2001 was on Thu-Fri 17-18 May
> Ulsthorpe Court 2002: Thu-Fri 16-17 May
> Abbey Hotel 2003: Sun-Mon 11-12 May (IIRC switched to Sun-Mon for a better 
> deal at Abbey Hotel)
> Abbey Hotel 2004: Sun-Mon 9-10 May
> Hawkstone Park 2005: Sun-Mon 8-9 May
> Hawkstone Park 2006: Sun-Mon 14-15 May
> Hawkstone Park 2007: Sun-Mon 29-30 April (I believe earlier because at FOA 
> rates changed after end April)
> 
> Malcolm 
> 
> 


Thanks Malcolm,  I'll hopefully get to ring FOA tomorrow to ask about 
rates.  Their website still advertises rates as being available at £114 
so we might be lucky!

Bill

Well played Bill - great to watch.
Thanks to all concerned for great couple of days.
Count me in for the FoA in 2008



"Bill Seddon" <billatremoveseddonendo.com> wrote in message
news:WZOdnXo2JPU5k6rbnZ2dnUVZ8tWnnZ2d@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> > Arriving Saturday, gave me the chance of discussing Rules with John
Turner –
> > always a pleasure.  Though less so in our match on Sunday when he
refused me
> > relief from what I thought be an abnormal ground condition.  He is a
hard
> > man.  I pity those Irish professionals if they call for a ruling and get
> > John!!
> > Saturday evening also gave me a chance to enjoy the company of Carl
Lawton,
> > there for the first time and who I’m sure will be back again, and Mark
Myers
> > who both politely tolerated John’s and my Rules conversations.
> >
> > I won’t go on and mention every one by name, but like us all, it was
once
> > again a joy to be among old friends and to make new ones.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Malcolm
> >
> >
>
> Enjoyed my first UKSG outing,  and nice to play well yesterday.  Thanks
> to all my partners, both golfing and drinking.  Demetri deserves a
> further  thank you,  all ran excellently,  and I am sure everyone very
> much appreciates that.
>
> Looking to next year FOA have a deal running at the moment for £123 for
> what we got at HP. 2 rounds and DBB.
>
> Before I contact them,  I would like the groups views and advice re the
> timing of the event.  If we could get this deal for a few weeks later,
> it gives the grass a little more time to grow,  and the likelihood of
> good greens is increased.  Is there any reason that we shouldn't move to
> a date later if cost increase is not involved?  Is there a nominal max
> price above which I look elsewhere?
>
> I'll post details under a new thread once I have spoken to them.
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Bill

Likewise, my thanks to DD and his willing helpers for arranging and
sorting the bash.
Thanks to my playing partners for the two days, JG Snr and Jnr, Alan
Cornick, Dave Robinson and Janet Homer. A most enjoyable two days
golf. Special thanks to Janet for the painkillers on the 8th - my golf
started to pick up a couple of holes later, much to JG Jnr's concern.
Definitely one of my social/golf events of the year (possibly my only
socail/golf event of the year if the first 4 months golf playing
opportunites are anything to go by!)

Apologies to the Gibb clan for not fulfilling my prediction of taking
two points - at least I got 1 and a half. If it had been a card
playoff on day 2, then it would've been two points...........

Likewise, I claim a moral card playoff victory in my side bet with our
flat earth friend from Newmarket!! (Hi Ian - hope you had a good time
on your "team-building" outing up in The Dales.)

Roll on USG (FoA) 2008.

Cheers,
Mick

On 1 May, 10:31, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:

> So the South lost again - but only just.
> Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 12
> months!
> But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how the
> ladies might have a better chance in the match play.
>
I too would like to thank Demetri and Malcolm for organising a very
enjoyable weekend at Hawkstone, made better for me by the way that I
played obviously helped.

I woulkd also like to thank my playing partners and fellow competitors
(Ken, JayGee Jnr and Chris on Sunday, and Malcolm, Nick and Ken again
on Monday) for putting up with my somewhat erratic play.
Congratulations to Bill for winning well on Monday and I too look
forward to 2008 be it FOA or wherever he thinks he can get us a good
deal. Angela thoroughly enjoyed herself and will be coming again if
she can get the day(s) off work.

I quoted from Malcolms post about his request not to have a format
change because I generally do not like the Monday format of Matchplay
Stableford. Once you get more than about five points behind, the match
is more than likely to be lost. Last year I was three points behind,
five holes to play and lost my ball on the 14th. My oppponent got a
net birdie and suddenly I was six down, four to play and the game was
lost. On Monday, Nick and I were very close until the last four holes
until I put a spurt on 15,16 & 17. All I can suggest is that we have a
dual matchplay singles for the Morton Plate and record the individual
Stableford for the Williams Cup.

All criticisms gratefully accepted........

Richard

wrote in message 
news:1178087546.016240.200770@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
> On 1 May, 10:31, "M L Wadsworth"
>  wrote:
>
>> So the South lost again - but only just.
>> Those Northern Whippets are going to be insufferable again for the next 
>> 12
>> months!
>> But please let us not change the format other than perhaps look at how 
>> the
>> ladies might have a better chance in the match play.
>>
> I too would like to thank Demetri and Malcolm for organising a very
> enjoyable weekend at Hawkstone, made better for me by the way that I
> played obviously helped.
>
> I woulkd also like to thank my playing partners and fellow competitors
> (Ken, JayGee Jnr and Chris on Sunday, and Malcolm, Nick and Ken again
> on Monday) for putting up with my somewhat erratic play.
> Congratulations to Bill for winning well on Monday and I too look
> forward to 2008 be it FOA or wherever he thinks he can get us a good
> deal. Angela thoroughly enjoyed herself and will be coming again if
> she can get the day(s) off work.
>
> I quoted from Malcolms post about his request not to have a format
> change because I generally do not like the Monday format of Matchplay
> Stableford. Once you get more than about five points behind, the match
> is more than likely to be lost. Last year I was three points behind,
> five holes to play and lost my ball on the 14th. My oppponent got a
> net birdie and suddenly I was six down, four to play and the game was
> lost. On Monday, Nick and I were very close until the last four holes
> until I put a spurt on 15,16 & 17. All I can suggest is that we have a
> dual matchplay singles for the Morton Plate and record the individual
> Stableford for the Williams Cup.
>
> All criticisms gratefully accepted........
>
> Richard
>

It was good to see Angela there and I am pleased she enjoyed herself. If 
more wives and partners came next year, a couple of short excursions could 
be organised while we played golf.

As you know one cannot mix match play and stroke play for obvious reasons.
Are you are suggesting that once one gets to a point in the game where it 
would be unrealistic or impossible to win, one could concede the Morton 
Plate point to one's opponent and walk in rather than complete the round?

We could do that but the opponent may wish to play on with a chance to win 
the Williams Cup.

In my game with Ken Hoyle I had a game one only has nightmares about.  After 
9 holes I was 6 points down and would have been 4 holes down in match play.
After 12 holes I was 9 points down: 5 down in match play with 6 holes 
remaining.
After the 13th hole I would have lost 6&5.
Being now 11 points I could theoretically still have won by scoring 2 net 
birdies and 3 net pars, provided of course Ken scored no more points!

It did occur to me on Monday, what I should do if someone put in a N/R which 
would of course affect the Stableford Points Sweepstake.  So far, it has 
never happened.

regards,
Malcolm

On May 2, 9:36 am, "M L Wadsworth"
 wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:1178087546.016240.200770@u30g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
>
> > I quoted from Malcolms post about his request not to have a format
> > change because I generally do not like the Monday format of Matchplay
> > Stableford. Once you get more than about five points behind, the match
> > is more than likely to be lost. Last year I was three points behind,
> > five holes to play and lost my ball on the 14th. My oppponent got a
> > net birdie and suddenly I was six down, four to play and the game was
> > lost. On Monday, Nick and I were very close until the last four holes
> > until I put a spurt on 15,16 & 17. All I can suggest is that we have a
> > dual matchplay singles for the Morton Plate and record the individual
> > Stableford for the Williams Cup.

(apologies for replying to Richard in a follow-up to Malcolm's
reply...)

It could equally be argued the other way.  If we played strict match-
play (without concessions) along with the individual Stableford, then
someone who was 1 down and then managed a 3-point swing would be
complaining they'd only got 1 hole back for 3 strokes better !  As we
have arrived at a format where the individual event is played on the
second day, and that is Stableford, then it really only makes sense to
award an individual match "point" to something based on Stableford
score.  We did try a sort of match play once where the result of each
hole was decided by the points winner on that hole, which is probably
not all that complicated to implement once it has been understood (we
are after all marking points scores on the card so it is trivial to
say who has "won").  But then someone will come in with a late charge
on 17 and 18 having lost "3 and 2", score an overall better points
score and complain :-)

> > All criticisms gratefully accepted........

See above !

> It was good to see Angela there and I am pleased she enjoyed herself. If
> more wives and partners came next year, a couple of short excursions could
> be organised while we played golf.

Count me out on that score :-}  (For me, it's an event for me
personally, but I have absolutely no problem with anyone who brings
their partner along, with the possible proviso that this does not lead
to an undue amount of extra effort for the organiser.)

> As you know one cannot mix match play and stroke play for obvious reasons.
> Are you are suggesting that once one gets to a point in the game where it
> would be unrealistic or impossible to win, one could concede the Morton
> Plate point to one's opponent and walk in rather than complete the round?
>
> We could do that but the opponent may wish to play on with a chance to win
> the Williams Cup.
>
> In my game with Ken Hoyle I had a game one only has nightmares about.  After
> 9 holes I was 6 points down and would have been 4 holes down in match play.
> After 12 holes I was 9 points down: 5 down in match play with 6 holes
> remaining.
> After the 13th hole I would have lost 6&5.
> Being now 11 points I could theoretically still have won by scoring 2 net
> birdies and 3 net pars, provided of course K