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date: Sun, 18 May 2008 00:26:28 -0700 (PDT),    group: uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers        back       
English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
By Graham McKendry and Kerry Harvey

WEDNESDAY’S horrific night of UEFA Cup violence was fuelled by rent-a-
mobs from across England, it was claimed last night.

Crafty football casuals from clubs including Chelsea, Liverpool and
Manchester United secretly donned Gers colours to deliberately hijack
the event and wreak havoc.

And we can reveal police chiefs fear they got their preparations
totally wrong — and have admitted their plan to accommodate travelling
fans was woefully inadequate.

A senior police officer from Greater Manchester Police confessed: “It
was a free-for-all. Hooligan elements from all over the country were
there — and our plan wasn’t up to it.”



Today we can reveal that hooligan firms from all over England flocked
to Manchester for the game — many of them known to cops and subject to
football banning orders.

However, these measures could do NOTHING to stop the yobs travelling
to the city for the clash. Troublemakers from Leicester City,
Birmingham City, Oxford United, Millwall, Stockport County, Sheffield
Wednesday and Chelsea were all involved in the rioting.

Hooligans attached to both Manchester sides — City and United — also
helped trash their own city while battling cops AND Gers fans.

A member of the notorious Border City Firm — linked to Carlisle United
— said fans’ internet message boards had been buzzing ahead of
Wednesday’s final, and that the shameful ruck had been well planned.

He revealed: “That’s why people were seeing Rangers fans fighting
Rangers fans. People from other clubs simply paid £25 for a Rangers
top so they could blend in. It’s not rocket science.”

Our police source also admitted that chiefs “blundered badly” in their
handling of the riot.

The highly-placed city desk officer — who has over 20 years’
experience under his belt — said: “It was a total balls-up. The plan
encompassed a smaller number of fans from two foreign teams getting
through.

“Every time Rangers survived another round you could see people
looking at each other and thinking, ‘Surely they won’t make the
final?’ When they beat Fiorentina things started to go into freefall.

“The first thought was to effectively shut up shop — to try to control
the situation by saying, ‘Don’t come if you don’t have a ticket’.

“But it quickly became apparent, through talks with Rangers and what
we were hearing in the media, that lots of fans were coming
regardless.

“The figure 100,000 we should have been able to cope with. But on the
day, there was double that number. Any large-scale gathering of people
like that brings with it unique problems.

“Hooligans easily ride on the coat-tails of large gatherings like this
and it could be that a large degree of the trouble was caused by a
violent element with NO ties to Rangers whatsoever.”

Club boss David Murray has vowed to ban for LIFE any Gers fan
convicted of rioting.
Ibrox officials are scanning the names of those appearing at court on
rioting charges for season ticket holders.

But notorious former hooligan Jason Marriner reckons cops were
woefully under-prepared. And the ex-Chelsea Headhunter member, who was
handed a six-year sentence in 2000 for planning a pre-match punch-up,
insists officers were too heavy-handed.

Marriner, 40, who was in Manchester to watch the game on TV with pals,
blasted: “The police have to take a lot of the blame for what
happened. They had no idea of the numbers involved and got it all
wrong.”

Trouble flared when the giant screen in the Piccadilly Gardens fanzone
failed just before kick-off, and riot police were sent in.

Marriner added: “Is it any wonder that when the screen broke down
people were upset?

“There were fans there who had spent hundreds of pounds to get to
Manchester only to be told they were not going to see the game. The
police should have seen the problem for what it was and dealt with it.

“Getting the batons out and charging was not the thing to do.”

Our Manchester police source, who’s helped at countless local derbies
and powderkeg Manchester United v Liverpool clashes, agrees some
officers may have been heavy-handed in their policing of the event.

He said: “As the day went on, people who’d been drinking a lot became
more rowdy. Public order was a problem. But that wasn’t helped by a
number of factors. At Piccadilly, for instance, there weren’t enough
loos. That created a problem with people having to urinate within the
confines of the fans’ area.

“People — women in particular — were rightly annoyed by that.

“Anecdotally I’ve heard the sight of officers in their full body
armour seemed to exacerbate an already hostile atmosphere. That can be
the case. The sight of officers in their gear maybe does send out the
wrong message. To some people it says, ‘We’re here for a fight’.”



After the first glass bottle was thrown, the city centre quickly
descended into chaos. Our source says officers worked to a regimented
plan — to take control of the streets and disperse the large number of
fans.

“Officers are well trained for it,” he said. “But training is very
different from reality.

“With the adrenaline pumping it’s very easy for the officers to be
accused of over-zealous policing. And I think that was the case on
Wednesday.

“The powers-that-be are aware of their shortcomings. But they’re not
all the fault of the police. Manchester City Council has to bear some
of the blame too.

“We’ve certainly gone on a public relations blitz to try and get our
side across. And that’s fair — because hooliganism can never be
tolerated.

“But there’s a lot of lessons we need to learn from this episode too.
I think we sent out too many mixed messages and ultimately got it
wrong. Our plan wasn’t up to it.”



Footie boffin Bert Moorhouse, of Glasgow University’s sociology
department, also believes the organisation was poor.

The expert on soccer science said: “It seems to me that they did
virtually nothing before the game on Wednesday and left fans to their
own devices.

“Add that to the fact that Piccadilly Gardens was a bad location to
keep the fans, and it’s easy to see how it turned out the way it did.

“Why not use Old Trafford? It has a 75,000 capacity — surely they
could have had a screen in there and managed it better.

“Anyone who knows anything about Scottish football knew that Rangers
were going to go down there with 100,000-plus fans.

“And there are probably enough Rangers fans in England to fill up
Manchester. I just never got the impression the authorities were
properly prepared.

“And if people are allowed to sit around, fill themselves up with
booze and then the screens don’t work, there are going to be people
who are annoyed.”



WE SAY: PEOPLE have tried to blame the shocking violence that marred
the aftermath of Rangers’ UEFA Cup Final clash on any number of
factors.

A broken big screen, heavy-handed police, poor organisation...all have
been cited as contributory reasons.

But let’s not kid ourselves — the main reason for the appalling scenes
was booze.

The louts who clashed with police were tanked up after day-long
sessions. And their binge drinking was positively encouraged, with
supermarkets selling beer at 6am and pubs offering cut-price deals.

Drink is one of the biggest killers in Scotland. But it doesn’t only
affect the individual. Entire communities suffer because of our
national love affair with the bottle.

Wednesday night was proof of that. And proof, too, that we MUST change
our ways. How can we tell our children that drunken violence is wrong
if we do nothing about the booze culture that breeds it?
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 00:26:28 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Mad Max

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
So how much in rent did this mob cost  ?

I hope it was cheep for the cost of dragging your club and countrys name 
through the fuckin gutter.

Deflect all you like but this is the kind of people  ibrox  attracts unlike 
your rivals across the city.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:29:28 +0100   author:   sepang

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 8:26 am, Mad Max  wrote:
> By Graham McKendry and Kerry Harvey
>
<snip>

Another "It wizny us" story. Superb.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 03:28:13 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 10:29 am, "sepang"  wrote:
> So how much in rent did this mob cost  ?
>
> I hope it was cheep for the cost of dragging your club and countrys name
> through the fuckin gutter.
>
> Deflect all you like but this is the kind of people  ibrox  attracts unlike
> your rivals across the city.

Loyalist terrorists, racists, anti-semites, BNP thugs, Combat 18
readers and bigots of all kinds. They all love the Rangers.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 03:33:34 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Mad Max"  wrote in message 
news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...


I said when I got back thier was people thier from various english clubs, 
people are out to make us look bad, and they did.
We didnt have one arrest for the whole season in europe proir to the final, 
we have been used and we will suffer for th scum from emgland.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:36:59 +0100   author:   andy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 12:36 pm, "andy"  wrote:
> "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I said when I got back thier was people thier from various english clubs,
> people are out to make us look bad, and they did.
> We didnt have one arrest for the whole season in europe proir to the final> we have been used and we will suffer for th scum from emgland.

Give it up Andy, it's about time you accepted the blame and started
doing something about it instead of desperately trying to deflect it.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 04:40:06 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
The depths you lot will go to to deflect from the sizeable racist and 
bigoted scum that follow follows you about, attacking the british police, 
paramedics, TA members and each other.

Someone at RFC has finally got to come out, admit the size of the problem 
and tell all the bigots and racists to stay away.  Not just because UEFA are 
watching but because it should have no place in 21st century Scotland.

One Scotland, many cultures.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 14:22:01 +0100   author:   d? the h?sker

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 2:22 pm, "d� the h�sker"  wrote:
> The depths you lot will go to to deflect from the sizeable racist and
> bigoted scum that follow follows you about, attacking the british police,
> paramedics, TA members and each other.
>
> Someone at RFC has finally got to come out, admit the size of the problem
> and tell all the bigots and racists to stay away.  Not just because UEFA are
> watching but because it should have no place in 21st century Scotland.
>
> One Scotland, many cultures.

The best bit of the above article is when Jason Marriner is cited in
defense of the actions of the Rangers fans.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 06:40:26 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"HoopsBhoy"  wrote in message 
news:4df619eb-30ec-4864-b1e6-2448c04205d6@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
On May 18, 12:36 pm, "andy"  wrote:
> "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> I said when I got back thier was people thier from various english clubs,
> people are out to make us look bad, and they did.
> We didnt have one arrest for the whole season in europe proir to the 
> final,
> we have been used and we will suffer for th scum from emgland.

Give it up Andy, it's about time you accepted the blame and started
doing something about it instead of desperately trying to deflect it.

I do accept a few of our fans caused trouble, I also know why it started
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 14:48:09 +0100   author:   andy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Mad Max"  wrote in message 
news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...

shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.

it was rangers fans

FACT
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:35:31 +0100   author:   Geo

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"andy"  wrote in message 
news:xPudne2ZtsBZia3VnZ2dnUVZ8vmdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Mad Max"  wrote in message 
> news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> I said when I got back thier was people thier from various english clubs, 
> people are out to make us look bad, and they did.
> We didnt have one arrest for the whole season in europe proir to the 
> final, we have been used and we will suffer for th scum from emgland.

FFS all this finger pointing is laughable. Your fans rioted and rampaged 
across Manchester, Rangers fans online and that I know personally have 
admitted it and are ashamed by it.

"It wizny us mister, the big boys done it and ran away."
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 07:53:09 -0700   author:   ZB

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 3:35 pm, "Geo"  wrote:
> "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.
>
> it was rangers fans
>
> FACT

Abuse report sent fact.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 11:13:06 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Mad Max

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 2:48 pm, "andy"  wrote:
> "HoopsBhoy"  wrote in message
>
> news:4df619eb-30ec-4864-b1e6-2448c04205d6@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On May 18, 12:36 pm, "andy"  wrote:
>
> > "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> >news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...> > I said when I got back thier was people thier from various english clubs> > people are out to make us look bad, and they did.
> > We didnt have one arrest for the whole season in europe proir to the
> > final,
> > we have been used and we will suffer for th scum from emgland.
>
> Give it up Andy, it's about time you accepted the blame and started
> doing something about it instead of desperately trying to deflect it.
>
> I do accept a few of our fans caused trouble, I also know why it started

Because your support is rotten to the core with scum?
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:16:33 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 7:13 pm, Mad Max  wrote:
> On May 18, 3:35 pm, "Geo"  wrote:
>
> > "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> >news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...> > shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.
>
> > it was rangers fans
>
> > FACT
>
> Abuse report sent fact.

Bet you were right in the thick of all the trouble.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:18:26 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
> Bet you were right in the thick of all the trouble.

I'll bet he watched it on the TV.
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 20:22:32 +0100   author:   Jim Mason

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"HoopsBhoy"  wrote in message 
news:5a41d1d9-492d-42ca-b593-ee38ba534335@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On May 18, 7:13 pm, Mad Max  wrote:
> On May 18, 3:35 pm, "Geo"  wrote:
>
> > "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> >news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> > shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.
>
> > it was rangers fans
>
> > FACT
>
> Abuse report sent fact.

~Bet you were right in the _thick_ of all the trouble.

Is that supposed to be punny?

;-)
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 20:38:49 +0100   author:   \\?`?.?biz?.???/ moc.liamG@aynezib

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 18, 8:38 pm, "  \\¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote:
> "HoopsBhoy"  wrote in message
>
> news:5a41d1d9-492d-42ca-b593-ee38ba534335@w7g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On May 18, 7:13 pm, Mad Max  wrote:
>
> > On May 18, 3:35 pm, "Geo"  wrote:
>
> > > "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> > >news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com.> > > shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.
>
> > > it was rangers fans
>
> > > FACT
>
> > Abuse report sent fact.
>
> ~Bet you were right in the _thick_ of all the trouble.
>
> Is that supposed to be punny?
>
> ;-)

He's a viscous man.

Mwuahahahahah!
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:56:15 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Mad Max"  wrote in message 
news:325738a2-cb65-4580-ac7c-249ad048e42b@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
On May 18, 3:35 pm, "Geo"  wrote:
> "Mad Max"  wrote in message
>
> news:3e0d003a-bb4f-44b1-ab54-b961551fc27d@d77g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
>
> shite snipped, two stinking huns covering up the truth.
>
> it was rangers fans
>
> FACT

Abuse report sent fact.

What abuse do you see muppet.

Jim the grassbag,
date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:15:09 +0100   author:   Geo

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
Mad Max wrote:
> 
> 
> By Graham McKendry and Kerry Harvey
> 
> WEDNESDAY’S horrific night of UEFA Cup violence was fuelled by rent-a-
> mobs from across England, it was claimed last night.
> 
> Crafty football casuals from clubs including Chelsea, Liverpool and
> Manchester United secretly donned Gers colours to deliberately hijack
> the event and wreak havoc.
> 
> And we can reveal police chiefs fear they got their preparations
> totally wrong — and have admitted their plan to accommodate travelling
> fans was woefully inadequate.
> 
> A senior police officer from Greater Manchester Police confessed: “It
> was a free-for-all. Hooligan elements from all over the country were
> there — and our plan wasn’t up to it.”
> 
> 
> 
> Today we can reveal that hooligan firms from all over England flocked
> to Manchester for the game — many of them known to cops and subject to
> football banning orders.
> 
> However, these measures could do NOTHING to stop the yobs travelling
> to the city for the clash. Troublemakers from Leicester City,
> Birmingham City, Oxford United, Millwall, Stockport County, Sheffield
> Wednesday and Chelsea were all involved in the rioting.
> 
> Hooligans attached to both Manchester sides — City and United — also
> helped trash their own city while battling cops AND Gers fans.
> 
> A member of the notorious Border City Firm — linked to Carlisle United
> — said fans’ internet message boards had been buzzing ahead of
> Wednesday’s final, and that the shameful ruck had been well planned.
> 
> He revealed: “That’s why people were seeing Rangers fans fighting
> Rangers fans. People from other clubs simply paid £25 for a Rangers
> top so they could blend in. It’s not rocket science.”
> 
> Our police source also admitted that chiefs “blundered badly” in their
> handling of the riot.
> 
> The highly-placed city desk officer — who has over 20 years’
> experience under his belt — said: “It was a total balls-up. The plan
> encompassed a smaller number of fans from two foreign teams getting
> through.
> 
> “Every time Rangers survived another round you could see people
> looking at each other and thinking, ‘Surely they won’t make the
> final?’ When they beat Fiorentina things started to go into freefall.
> 
> “The first thought was to effectively shut up shop — to try to control
> the situation by saying, ‘Don’t come if you don’t have a ticket’.
> 
> “But it quickly became apparent, through talks with Rangers and what
> we were hearing in the media, that lots of fans were coming
> regardless.
> 
> “The figure 100,000 we should have been able to cope with. But on the
> day, there was double that number. Any large-scale gathering of people
> like that brings with it unique problems.
> 
> “Hooligans easily ride on the coat-tails of large gatherings like this
> and it could be that a large degree of the trouble was caused by a
> violent element with NO ties to Rangers whatsoever.”
> 
> Club boss David Murray has vowed to ban for LIFE any Gers fan
> convicted of rioting.
> Ibrox officials are scanning the names of those appearing at court on
> rioting charges for season ticket holders.
> 
> But notorious former hooligan Jason Marriner reckons cops were
> woefully under-prepared. And the ex-Chelsea Headhunter member, who was
> handed a six-year sentence in 2000 for planning a pre-match punch-up,
> insists officers were too heavy-handed.
> 
> Marriner, 40, who was in Manchester to watch the game on TV with pals,
> blasted: “The police have to take a lot of the blame for what
> happened. They had no idea of the numbers involved and got it all
> wrong.”
> 
> Trouble flared when the giant screen in the Piccadilly Gardens fanzone
> failed just before kick-off, and riot police were sent in.
> 
> Marriner added: “Is it any wonder that when the screen broke down
> people were upset?
> 
> “There were fans there who had spent hundreds of pounds to get to
> Manchester only to be told they were not going to see the game. The
> police should have seen the problem for what it was and dealt with it.
> 
> “Getting the batons out and charging was not the thing to do.”
> 
> Our Manchester police source, who’s helped at countless local derbies
> and powderkeg Manchester United v Liverpool clashes, agrees some
> officers may have been heavy-handed in their policing of the event.
> 
> He said: “As the day went on, people who’d been drinking a lot became
> more rowdy. Public order was a problem. But that wasn’t helped by a
> number of factors. At Piccadilly, for instance, there weren’t enough
> loos. That created a problem with people having to urinate within the
> confines of the fans’ area.
> 
> “People — women in particular — were rightly annoyed by that.
> 
> “Anecdotally I’ve heard the sight of officers in their full body
> armour seemed to exacerbate an already hostile atmosphere. That can be
> the case. The sight of officers in their gear maybe does send out the
> wrong message. To some people it says, ‘We’re here for a fight’.”
> 
> 
> 
> After the first glass bottle was thrown, the city centre quickly
> descended into chaos. Our source says officers worked to a regimented
> plan — to take control of the streets and disperse the large number of
> fans.
> 
> “Officers are well trained for it,” he said. “But training is very
> different from reality.
> 
> “With the adrenaline pumping it’s very easy for the officers to be
> accused of over-zealous policing. And I think that was the case on
> Wednesday.
> 
> “The powers-that-be are aware of their shortcomings. But they’re not
> all the fault of the police. Manchester City Council has to bear some
> of the blame too.
> 
> “We’ve certainly gone on a public relations blitz to try and get our
> side across. And that’s fair — because hooliganism can never be
> tolerated.
> 
> “But there’s a lot of lessons we need to learn from this episode too.
> I think we sent out too many mixed messages and ultimately got it
> wrong. Our plan wasn’t up to it.”
> 
> 
> 
> Footie boffin Bert Moorhouse, of Glasgow University’s sociology
> department, also believes the organisation was poor.
> 
> The expert on soccer science said: “It seems to me that they did
> virtually nothing before the game on Wednesday and left fans to their
> own devices.
> 
> “Add that to the fact that Piccadilly Gardens was a bad location to
> keep the fans, and it’s easy to see how it turned out the way it did.
> 
> “Why not use Old Trafford? It has a 75,000 capacity — surely they
> could have had a screen in there and managed it better.
> 
> “Anyone who knows anything about Scottish football knew that Rangers
> were going to go down there with 100,000-plus fans.
> 
> “And there are probably enough Rangers fans in England to fill up
> Manchester. I just never got the impression the authorities were
> properly prepared.
> 
> “And if people are allowed to sit around, fill themselves up with
> booze and then the screens don’t work, there are going to be people
> who are annoyed.”
> 
> 
> 
> WE SAY: PEOPLE have tried to blame the shocking violence that marred
> the aftermath of Rangers’ UEFA Cup Final clash on any number of
> factors.
> 
> A broken big screen, heavy-handed police, poor organisation...all have
> been cited as contributory reasons.
> 
> But let’s not kid ourselves — the main reason for the appalling scenes
> was booze.
> 
> The louts who clashed with police were tanked up after day-long
> sessions. And their binge drinking was positively encouraged, with
> supermarkets selling beer at 6am and pubs offering cut-price deals.
> 
> Drink is one of the biggest killers in Scotland. But it doesn’t only
> affect the individual. Entire communities suffer because of our
> national love affair with the bottle.
> 
> Wednesday night was proof of that. And proof, too, that we MUST change
> our ways. How can we tell our children that drunken violence is wrong
> if we do nothing about the booze culture that breeds it?
date: Mon, 19 May 2008 10:36:00 +0100   author:   scoopex

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country

Redman
date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:23:28 +0100   author:   Redman

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Redman"  wrote in message 
news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>
> Redman

The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
date: Mon, 19 May 2008 18:57:54 +0100   author:   Paddy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Paddy"  wrote in message
news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
> "Redman"  wrote in message 
> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>
> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.

If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question arises: 
why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is the common 
thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant hooligan element 
or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New Den is not a pretty 
place and has attracted a particular type of person. Is it some sort of 
nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical nationalism. Indeed I've 
heard fascism mentioned.

Here is a new video on YouTube. Maybe one of the reasons the violence kicked 
off was not the screen being broke. Maybe it was the frustration of thinking 
you've scored only to realise this was not the case.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYxwP13wNM
date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:34:50 +0100   author:   liam*

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
liam* wrote:
> "Paddy"  wrote in message
> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
> 
>>"Redman"  wrote in message 
>>news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>
>>>You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>>>surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>>
>>The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
> 
> 
> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question arises: 
> why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is the common 
> thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant hooligan element 
> or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New Den is not a pretty 
> place and has attracted a particular type of person. Is it some sort of 
> nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical nationalism. Indeed I've 
> heard fascism mentioned.


Why are they attracted to football?  Strange question when the answer is 
so obvious.  Take away that small minority of fans who look for trouble 
and what are you left with?  A mass of fair minded, objective and 
rational fans?  Are you hell!

If you want fascism, jingoism and small minded radical nationalism, look 
no further. It's there in spades, but diluted to club support level.

What a welcoming fertile ground for those louts seeking a base. What 
better than a mass crowd chanting obscenities, with the common enemy 
confined to a ghetto at one end.

Football club fans are by far the worst sports supporters in the world.
They require more policing than any other, more segregation, and more 
security. NFL games in the states can be run with similar crowds but 
with little need for concern over violence or segregation. The same 
applies to all other world sports. Those countries will have their share
of trouble seeking factions, but they don't seem to find these sports as 
welcoming, so maybe it has something to do with the level headed fans?
They act like grown ups and not like fanatical brain washed kids.

Of course this does not apply to all fans, but if anyone thinks that 
it's "just the fault of a handful of trouble makers"....that sham excuse 
they so often trip out..... then they should think again.  The fact is, 
the general standard is very, very low.

Why?  Because things have changed over the past few decades. Fans needed 
no segregation back then because they all had one thing in common, which 
was a love of football, as important to them as their support for their 
club. This has changed. Fans have nothing in common when blind club 
loyalty is all that matters, and that is exactly the way football 
support has gone.


LC
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:06:58 +0100   author:   lescor

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"Paddy"  wrote in message 
news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>
> "Redman"  wrote in message 
> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>>
>> Redman
>
> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>
>

Ahahaha!

Aye its all a conspiracy cover up!

Fuckin muppett...
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:25:24 +0100   author:   \\?`?.?biz?.???/ moc.liamG@aynezib

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"liam*"  wrote in message 
news:4831c84b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "Paddy"  wrote in message
> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>> "Redman"  wrote in message 
>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>
>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>>> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>>
>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>
> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question 
> arises: why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is the 
> common thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant hooligan 
> element or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New Den is not a 
> pretty place and has attracted a particular type of person. Is it some 
> sort of nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical nationalism. Indeed 
> I've heard fascism mentioned.

It is a strange phenomenon indeed. I would much rather distance myself from 
that sort of element of our fan base, much the way you seem to have 
eradicated *most* of the IRA factions among your own.
What seems to be noteworthy as well is the fact that all these teams - 
Rangers, Millwall, Chelsea, Tranmere - all play in Blue.... If you were 
doing some sort of investigative thesis then I'd help you investigate, as it 
seems interesting enough. But I fear you are just at the troll :-P

>
> Here is a new video on YouTube. Maybe one of the reasons the violence 
> kicked off was not the screen being broke. Maybe it was the frustration of 
> thinking you've scored only to realise this was not the case.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYxwP13wNM

Or maybe, as the authorities have already said, its because there was a 
large English hooligan element present looking for any excuse for a football 
match based piss up and riot.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 16:29:53 +0100   author:   \\?`?.?biz?.???/ moc.liamG@aynezib

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 20, 4:25 pm, "  \\¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote:
> "Paddy"  wrote in message
>
> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>
>
>
> > "Redman"  wrote in message
> >news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
> >> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't
> >> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>
> >> Redman
>
> > The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>
> Ahahaha!
>
> Aye its all a conspiracy cover up!
>
> Fuckin muppett...

Spiers said as much in a recent article. He's not afraid to tell the
truth.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 08:41:41 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
\¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/ wrote:
> "Paddy"  wrote in message 
> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>> "Redman"  wrote in message 
>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>>> surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>>>
>>> Redman
>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>
>>
> 
> Ahahaha!
> 
> Aye its all a conspiracy cover up!
> 
> Fuckin muppett... 
> 
> 

Indeed.

lol. :)
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:04:18 +0100   author:   scoopex

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
" \¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote in message
news:DOCdnf71CaXsc6_VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> "liam*"  wrote in message 
> news:4831c84b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> "Paddy"  wrote in message
>> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>>> "Redman"  wrote in message 
>>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really 
>>>> wouldn't surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this 
>>>> country
>>>
>>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>
>> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question 
>> arises: why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is the 
>> common thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant hooligan 
>> element or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New Den is not a 
>> pretty place and has attracted a particular type of person. Is it some 
>> sort of nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical nationalism. 
>> Indeed I've heard fascism mentioned.
>
> It is a strange phenomenon indeed. I would much rather distance myself 
> from that sort of element of our fan base, much the way you seem to have 
> eradicated *most* of the IRA factions among your own.
> What seems to be noteworthy as well is the fact that all these teams - 
> Rangers, Millwall, Chelsea, Tranmere - all play in Blue.... If you were 
> doing some sort of investigative thesis then I'd help you investigate, as 
> it seems interesting enough. But I fear you are just at the troll :-P

Millwall, Chelsea, Rangers, England's Barmy Army....maybe they aren't 
fascist but the right wing element (hate immigrants, wave the flag) seems 
more common amongst these teams than others. Whether right wing politics are 
associated with a hooligan element is another thing.

You are right about one thing The Sunday Herald suggested Rangers were part 
of the "Blues Brothers" but I think it goes beyond the  colour blue.

>> Here is a new video on YouTube. Maybe one of the reasons the violence 
>> kicked off was not the screen being broke. Maybe it was the frustration 
>> of thinking you've scored only to realise this was not the case.
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYxwP13wNM
>
> Or maybe, as the authorities have already said, its because there was a 
> large English hooligan element present looking for any excuse for a 
> football match based piss up and riot.

Afaiaa the only significant protagonist in all this who was English was the 
British Army  medic who saved Pc Mick Regan from a severe doing. Have any 
other English participants been identified? since most of the hooligans 
charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:32:41 +0100   author:   liam*

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"liam*"  wrote in message 
news:4832fd2a$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>" \¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote in message
> news:DOCdnf71CaXsc6_VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>> "liam*"  wrote in message 
>> news:4831c84b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>> "Paddy"  wrote in message
>>> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>>>> "Redman"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>>>
>>>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really 
>>>>> wouldn't surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this 
>>>>> country
>>>>
>>>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>>
>>> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question 
>>> arises: why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is 
>>> the common thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant 
>>> hooligan element or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New 
>>> Den is not a pretty place and has attracted a particular type of person. 
>>> Is it some sort of nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical 
>>> nationalism. Indeed I've heard fascism mentioned.
>>
>> It is a strange phenomenon indeed. I would much rather distance myself 
>> from that sort of element of our fan base, much the way you seem to have 
>> eradicated *most* of the IRA factions among your own.
>> What seems to be noteworthy as well is the fact that all these teams - 
>> Rangers, Millwall, Chelsea, Tranmere - all play in Blue.... If you were 
>> doing some sort of investigative thesis then I'd help you investigate, as 
>> it seems interesting enough. But I fear you are just at the troll :-P
>
> Millwall, Chelsea, Rangers, England's Barmy Army....maybe they aren't 
> fascist but the right wing element (hate immigrants, wave the flag) seems 
> more common amongst these teams than others. Whether right wing politics 
> are associated with a hooligan element is another thing.

Hooliganism has been a part of the English soccer culture for MANY years, 
and the stereotypical image of a 'Skinhead' tattoed knuckle-dragger has been 
prevailant throughout, so Hooligans certainly DO have the fascist right-wing 
element attached.
As far as Rangers go, we've never really had this stigma before now. We've 
certainly been affilliated with these clubs, and I'm almost certain there IS 
a hooligan/fascist link between some of the fans of all of those clubs. But 
to suggest that we've always been a part of this SKINS hooligan culture 
simply isnt true.

What *is* worrying however having watched yesterdays game on the old Sky 
Plus box at midnight, is that having come back from Manchester, we seem to 
have a few new songs. Songs which used to be heard regularly at The Den and 
Stamford Bridge - Oh Tanenbaum anyone? So there has obviously been some sort 
of integration among the fans down there last week. Sad and shameful.

>
> You are right about one thing The Sunday Herald suggested Rangers were 
> part of the "Blues Brothers" but I think it goes beyond the  colour blue.

Why do the upper-class fascists (the "true british" culture) refer to 
themselves as having "Blue Blood"? Genuine question, I'm as curious as you 
Liam.

>
>>> Here is a new video on YouTube. Maybe one of the reasons the violence 
>>> kicked off was not the screen being broke. Maybe it was the frustration 
>>> of thinking you've scored only to realise this was not the case.
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYxwP13wNM
>>
>> Or maybe, as the authorities have already said, its because there was a 
>> large English hooligan element present looking for any excuse for a 
>> football match based piss up and riot.
>
> Afaiaa the only significant protagonist in all this who was English was 
> the British Army  medic who saved Pc Mick Regan from a severe doing. Have 
> any other English participants been identified? since most of the 
> hooligans charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses.

I don't know, I don't trawl newspapers and media for excuses or deflections 
or any reasons - not just for this case, but life in general. I call things 
as I either see them or hear from people who I have no reason to disbelieve.

I do know a mate of mine from work who is the nicest guy you'd ever meet, 
nearly got into a fight with a Londoner wearing a Rangers top because the 
guy tried to sell ecstasy to his 11 year old son as he queued for a pish.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:10:13 +0100   author:   \\?`?.?biz?.???/ moc.liamG@aynezib

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
since most of the hooligans 
> charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses. 

have u seen this list?
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 18:43:10 +0100   author:   andy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 20, 4:41 pm, HoopsBhoy  wrote:

>
> Spiers said as much in a recent article. He's not afraid to tell the
> truth.

Bwahahahahaha, bet you believe in santa Too ;-)

Spiers got sacked from the Herald for spouting his hatred and lies, he
didnt like it when we got a right to reply to him.

Best part being it was a Tim that sacked him.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:55:49 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Mad Max

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
scoopex pretended :
>   \¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/ wrote:
>> "Paddy"  wrote in message 
>> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>>> "Redman"  wrote in message 
>>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really 
>>>> wouldn't surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this 
>>>> country
>>>>
>>>> Redman
>>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>>
>>>
>> 
>> Ahahaha!
>> 
>> Aye its all a conspiracy cover up!
>> 
>> Fuckin muppett... 
>> 
>> 

> Indeed.

> lol. :)

there's a lot of Jocks round here today scoope

LOL!!

<+|80)

-- 
+ His Holiness Pope Pompous XVIII

"There cannot be a nation of millionaires, and there never has been a 
nation of Utopian comrades; but there have been any number of nations 
of tolerably contented peasants" - G. K. Chesterton
date: Wed, 21 May 2008 00:44:44 +0100   author:   Pope Pompous XVIII

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"andy"  wrote in message
news:cuednanKMqoOkK7VRVnyggA@bt.com...
> since most of the hooligans
>> charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses.
>
> have u seen this list?

The Sunday Mail was going through a list of some of the guys arrested in
Manchester, they were all Scottish. Phil O'Donnell, George Dallas, Andrew
Hamilton, Bryan Reid (lobbing bottles in Albert Sq where the screens were
working), Grant Robertson, Stewart McCardle. And Alex Aitkenhead got a dog
set upon him. These are the names of people I've seen but I've yet to see
anyone that was English that got arrested and convicted.
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/newsfeed/2008/05/18/roll-of-shame-78057-20421371/
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:11:30 +0100   author:   liam*

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
" \¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote in message
news:KLOdnVIrY-tomK7VnZ2dnUVZ8vqdnZ2d@bt.com...
> "liam*"  wrote in message
> news:4832fd2a$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>" \¯`·.¸biz¸.·´¯/" <moc.liamG@aynezib> wrote in message
>> news:DOCdnf71CaXsc6_VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
>>> "liam*"  wrote in message
>>> news:4831c84b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>>> "Paddy"  wrote in message
>>>> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>>>>> "Redman"  wrote in message
>>>>> news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really
>>>>>> wouldn't surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this
>>>>>> country
>>>>>
>>>>> The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>>>
>>>> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question
>>>> arises: why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is
>>>> the common thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant
>>>> hooligan element or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New
>>>> Den is not a pretty place and has attracted a particular type of
>>>> person. Is it some sort of nationalistic jingoism or some kind of
>>>> radical nationalism. Indeed I've heard fascism mentioned.
>>>
>>> It is a strange phenomenon indeed. I would much rather distance myself
>>> from that sort of element of our fan base, much the way you seem to have
>>> eradicated *most* of the IRA factions among your own.
>>> What seems to be noteworthy as well is the fact that all these teams -
>>> Rangers, Millwall, Chelsea, Tranmere - all play in Blue.... If you were
>>> doing some sort of investigative thesis then I'd help you investigate,
>>> as it seems interesting enough. But I fear you are just at the troll :-P
>>
>> Millwall, Chelsea, Rangers, England's Barmy Army....maybe they aren't
>> fascist but the right wing element (hate immigrants, wave the flag) seems
>> more common amongst these teams than others. Whether right wing politics
>> are associated with a hooligan element is another thing.
>
> Hooliganism has been a part of the English soccer culture for MANY years,
> and the stereotypical image of a 'Skinhead' tattoed knuckle-dragger has
> been prevailant throughout, so Hooligans certainly DO have the fascist
> right-wing element attached.
> As far as Rangers go, we've never really had this stigma before now. We've
> certainly been affilliated with these clubs, and I'm almost certain there
> IS a hooligan/fascist link between some of the fans of all of those clubs.
> But to suggest that we've always been a part of this SKINS hooligan
> culture simply isnt true.
>
> What *is* worrying however having watched yesterdays game on the old Sky
> Plus box at midnight, is that having come back from Manchester, we seem to
> have a few new songs. Songs which used to be heard regularly at The Den
> and Stamford Bridge - Oh Tanenbaum anyone? So there has obviously been
> some sort of integration among the fans down there last week. Sad and
> shameful.

What's Oh Tanembaum?

>> You are right about one thing The Sunday Herald suggested Rangers were
>> part of the "Blues Brothers" but I think it goes beyond the  colour blue.
>
> Why do the upper-class fascists (the "true british" culture) refer to
> themselves as having "Blue Blood"? Genuine question, I'm as curious as you
> Liam.

Well Encyclopedia Britannica mentions this only in terms of "The blood
theory of heredity" a part of folklore antedating scientific biology. The
idea appeals to people who believe they have noble blood. The idea assumes
that a parent transmits to each child all of its characteristics.
Difficulties arise when one sees brothers and sisters sharing some family
traits but are clearly different in others. Mendel disproved the blood
theory. Heredity is transfered through factors (now knoes as genes) that do
not blend but segregate. Parents transmit only one half of their genes to
each child and these genes are a random draw. Not sure if this is taking us
anywhere.

In Oxford English Dictionary, should have looked there first, they say it
flows in the veins of aristocratic families. Comes from the Spanish "sangre
azul", who claim not to have had their blood contaminated by the Moors, Jews
or foreign influences. People of fair complexion will have blue views and
hence blue blood, unlike people of a darker complexion. Maria Edgeworth
Letters from England 1813-1844 ed. C. Colvin 1971. "One [officer]..from
Spain, of high rank and birth, of the sangre azul, the blue blood."


>>>> Here is a new video on YouTube. Maybe one of the reasons the violence
>>>> kicked off was not the screen being broke. Maybe it was the frustration
>>>> of thinking you've scored only to realise this was not the case.
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ezYxwP13wNM
>>>
>>> Or maybe, as the authorities have already said, its because there was a
>>> large English hooligan element present looking for any excuse for a
>>> football match based piss up and riot.
>>
>> Afaiaa the only significant protagonist in all this who was English was
>> the British Army  medic who saved Pc Mick Regan from a severe doing. Have
>> any other English participants been identified? since most of the
>> hooligans charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses.
>
> I don't know, I don't trawl newspapers and media for excuses or
> deflections or any reasons - not just for this case, but life in general.
> I call things as I either see them or hear from people who I have no
> reason to disbelieve.

Some are very quick to call others liars in the ngs, that's for sure.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:13:19 +0100   author:   liam*

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"lescor" wrote
> liam* wrote:
>> "Paddy"  wrote in message
>> news:AcjYj.55626$JE4.31428@newsfe11.ams2...
>>
>>>"Redman"  wrote in message 
>>>news:eQhYj.23301$U61.16420@newsfe12.ams2...
>>>
>>>>You know I don't know whether this is true or not but it really wouldn't 
>>>>surprise me with the fucking football hooligans in this country
>>>
>>>The "journo" that wrote the story is firmly in Murray's pocket.
>>
>>
>> If these people are affiliating themselves with Rangers the question 
>> arises: why? Why are they attracted to Rangers in particular? What is the 
>> common thread in the culture of teams that attract a significant hooligan 
>> element or has had hooligan problems, e.g. Millwall. The New Den is not a 
>> pretty place and has attracted a particular type of person. Is it some 
>> sort of nationalistic jingoism or some kind of radical nationalism. 
>> Indeed I've heard fascism mentioned.
>
>
> Why are they attracted to football?  Strange question when the answer is 
> so obvious.  Take away that small minority of fans who look for trouble 
> and what are you left with?  A mass of fair minded, objective and rational 
> fans?  Are you hell!
>
> If you want fascism, jingoism and small minded radical nationalism, look 
> no further. It's there in spades, but diluted to club support level.
>
> What a welcoming fertile ground for those louts seeking a base. What 
> better than a mass crowd chanting obscenities, with the common enemy 
> confined to a ghetto at one end.
>
> Football club fans are by far the worst sports supporters in the world.
> They require more policing than any other, more segregation, and more 
> security. NFL games in the states can be run with similar crowds but with 
> little need for concern over violence or segregation. The same applies to 
> all other world sports. Those countries will have their share
> of trouble seeking factions, but they don't seem to find these sports as 
> welcoming, so maybe it has something to do with the level headed fans?
> They act like grown ups and not like fanatical brain washed kids.
>
> Of course this does not apply to all fans, but if anyone thinks that it's 
> "just the fault of a handful of trouble makers"....that sham excuse they 
> so often trip out..... then they should think again.  The fact is, the 
> general standard is very, very low.
>
> Why?  Because things have changed over the past few decades. Fans needed 
> no segregation back then because they all had one thing in common, which 
> was a love of football, as important to them as their support for their 
> club. This has changed. Fans have nothing in common when blind club 
> loyalty is all that matters, and that is exactly the way football support 
> has gone.

A very interesting post lescor. I agree that anti-social behaviour is far to 
prevalent in football. Not just racism or xenophobia, but even things like 
bad language. Again something you do really see in the US, afaiaa. We all 
have to get our act in order.
date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:16:16 +0100   author:   liam*

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
On May 20, 6:55 pm, Mad Max  wrote:
> On May 20, 4:41 pm, HoopsBhoy  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Spiers said as much in a recent article. He's not afraid to tell the
> > truth.
>
> Bwahahahahaha, bet you believe in santa Too ;-)
>
> Spiers got sacked from the Herald for spouting his hatred and lies, he
> didnt like it when we got a right to reply to him.
>
> Best part being it was a Tim that sacked him.

Spiers knows the truth. We all know the truth.
date: Wed, 21 May 2008 05:18:58 -0700 (PDT)   author:   HoopsBhoy

Re: English rent-a-mob revelations in UEFA riot   
"liam*"  wrote in message 
news:4833e083$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "andy"  wrote in message
> news:cuednanKMqoOkK7VRVnyggA@bt.com...
>> since most of the hooligans
>>> charged so far seem to have Scottish addresses.
>>
>> have u seen this list?
>
> The Sunday Mail was going through a list of some of the guys arrested in
> Manchester, they were all Scottish. Phil O'Donnell, George Dallas, Andrew
> Hamilton, Bryan Reid (lobbing bottles in Albert Sq where the screens were
> working), Grant Robertson, Stewart McCardle. And Alex Aitkenhead got a dog
> set upon him. These are the names of people I've seen but I've yet to see
> anyone that was English that got arrested and convicted.
> http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/newsfeed/2008/05/18/roll-of-shame-78057-20421371/


Well I hope the fuckers never ever are allowed to travel anywhere again. 
makes me sick
date: Wed, 21 May 2008 15:04:34 +0100   author:   andy

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