Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):

- "Everybody was far too drunk"
- "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
- "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
- "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."


When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never acceptable 
and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester properly prepared? 
They need to take a large proportion of the blame as well.

I was threre during the day but went home about 3:30 pm.
There must have been at least twice as many people there than I could ever 
have imagined.
I have lived in Manchester all my life and have never seen anything on that 
scale.
At lunch time in Albert square if you ignored some of the songs (and nearly 
all footbal teams fans are guilty of incendary songs to a greateror lessor 
extent) it was a good atmosphere.
Piccadilly Gardens which can be a bit rough at the best of times was far too 
crowded, early in the afternoon you could hardly move. Some of the fans also 
seemed a little more "hardcore", there seemed to be more sectarian flags, a 
marching band assembled and smoke flares were lit. All of this with little 
police prescence. It was something of a shock to see people drinking walking 
up and down Market Street, even a tramp looked bemused.
I wouldnt like to point the blame at one particular factor but the drinking, 
the poor prepration on the part of Manchester played its part. But wouldnt 
it be nice if some football fans could just grow up?


"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester 
> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame as 
> well.
>

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester 
> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame as 
> well.
>



Do we? Should we have to provide areas for fans that had no intention of 
going to the ground with a ticket? I know one thing for certain, the chances 
of us Mancunians getting the big screen treatment for next Wednesday's 
Champions League final are now nil.....thanks to a few thousand neds from 
Scotland. And next Wednesday's game IS a case of no ticket, no chance of 
getting to watch the game in the host city. Moscow won't be allowing those 
of us without tickets (or a spare £2k to get one and get over there) to even 
travel. Word is, thanks to the other night, there will be no big screens for 
United fans.

I think Manchester has suffered enough without you heaping blame on us, 
mate.
-- 
Slitheen.
Manchester United - EPL Champions 2006/07 & 2007/08

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble?

Very fair point,not only relating to football but a saturday night in every 
town in britain too!

>Also, why wasn't Manchester properly prepared? They need to take a large 
>proportion of the blame as well.

I disagree to a point on that . A city can only do as much as they can to 
accomodate fans.They could have had nothing set up for away fans by rights 
or said fans without tickets dont bother coming but then there would be an 
outcry about freedom to travel etc.So the city does what it can by setting 
up screens etc.Fact is people have to accept that things go wrong,like the 
screen did....technology sadly has those problems from time to time.The 
thing is most decent people would moan and groan about it or even boo , but 
to then start throwing stuff at the guy trying to repair it seems the 
highest form of stupidity ! Again maybe it was down to alcohol but the 
rangers fans may have ended up with their behaviour costing other teams the 
chance to drink at away venues if UEFA see fit.Manchester cant be blamed for 
the behaviour and violence,the fact is it was down to a minority of violent 
Rangers fans no doubt fuelled by booze.The thing is people can blame anyone 
but the rangers fans but there was i believe some trouble at ibrox too.It 
was a disgrace the actions but have to face up to it and maybe only thing 
that can be done is stop alcohol sales near the ground like they did in the 
80's.I feel sorry for the decent supporters of which there were many 1000's 
who behaved very well,the way fans should but sadly a large minority has 
tarred the whole of the club and the support with being violent thugs.Thats 
not point scoring,its just the sad truth.When its the first item on the news 
in all british countries and some euro ones then it is a big deal !!!

JB

"Jonbhoy"  wrote in message 
news:F8WdnU3nQr-RV7DVnZ2dnUVZ8vWdnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "Stevio"  wrote in message 
> news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>>
>> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
>> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed 
>> "
>> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
>> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
>> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>>
>>
>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
>> acceptable and often leads to trouble?
>
> Very fair point,not only relating to football but a saturday night in 
> every town in britain too!
>
>>Also, why wasn't Manchester properly prepared? They need to take a large 
>>proportion of the blame as well.
>
> I disagree to a point on that . A city can only do as much as they can to 
> accomodate fans.They could have had nothing set up for away fans by rights 
> or said fans without tickets dont bother coming but then there would be an 
> outcry about freedom to travel etc.So the city does what it can by setting 
> up screens etc.Fact is people have to accept that things go wrong,like the 
> screen did....technology sadly has those problems from time to time.The 
> thing is most decent people would moan and groan about it or even boo , 
> but to then start throwing stuff at the guy trying to repair it seems the 
> highest form of stupidity !


The thing is, unlike your average 32" TV in your average living room, you 
can't quickly swap it out for another one. And like you say....technology 
goes wrong from time to time. Shit happens, and you deal with it. A few 
hundred/thousand/whatever Rangers fans decided to deal with it by rioting. 
And in so doing, cost us Mancunians any chance of a big screen next 
Wednesday for the Champions League final.

Now,
http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i158/vix10/uefa-f-off-medium.jpg

Thank yaaaa!
-- 
Slitheen.
Manchester United - EPL Champions 2006/07 & 2007/08

"Jonbhoy"  wrote in message news:F8WdnU3nQr-
>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
>> acceptable and often leads to trouble?
>
> Very fair point,not only relating to football but a saturday night in 
> every town in britain too!

Agreed.

>>Also, why wasn't Manchester properly prepared? They need to take a large 
>>proportion of the blame as well.
>
> I disagree to a point on that . A city can only do as much as they can to 
> accomodate fans.They could have had nothing set up for away fans by rights 
> or said fans without tickets dont bother coming but then there would be an 
> outcry about freedom to travel etc.So the city does what it can by setting 
> up screens etc.Fact is people have to accept that things go wrong,like the

Just listen to the stories coming out from Manchester on the Real Radio 
phone in just now. The drunken louts have to take some of the blame but so 
does the extremely poor organisation of Manchester. If we use Seville as an 
example :-) then they should know that clubs from certain countries (e.g. 
Old Firm fans) will travel in large numbers to the host city, especially 
when it's 3 hours down the road!

Seems the video footage we're being shown is quite selective and the actions 
of riot police attacking fans of course is not being shown.

"Slitheen"  wrote in message
news:OdkXj.12930$iD4.4107@newsfe09.ams2...
>
>
> Shit happens, and you deal with it. A few hundred/thousand/whatever 
> Rangers fans decided to deal with it by rioting.

The cop that was attacked, as seen on TV, said the street riots were started 
by "a few thousand."

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester 
> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame as 
> well.

They miscalculted ;they thought you fur wearing hun scum had a modicum of 
civility in you.
>
>

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:2hkXj.4559$DZ6.298@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "Jonbhoy"  wrote in message news:F8WdnU3nQr-
>>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
>>> acceptable and often leads to trouble?
>>
>> Very fair point,not only relating to football but a saturday night in 
>> every town in britain too!
>
> Agreed.
>
>>>Also, why wasn't Manchester properly prepared? They need to take a large 
>>>proportion of the blame as well.
>>
>> I disagree to a point on that . A city can only do as much as they can to 
>> accomodate fans.They could have had nothing set up for away fans by 
>> rights or said fans without tickets dont bother coming but then there 
>> would be an outcry about freedom to travel etc.So the city does what it 
>> can by setting up screens etc.Fact is people have to accept that things 
>> go wrong,like the
>
> Just listen to the stories coming out from Manchester on the Real Radio 
> phone in just now. The drunken louts have to take some of the blame but so 
> does the extremely poor organisation of Manchester. If we use Seville as 
> an example :-) then they should know that clubs from certain countries 
> (e.g. Old Firm fans) will travel in large numbers to the host city, 
> especially when it's 3 hours down the road!
>
> Seems the video footage we're being shown is quite selective and the 
> actions of riot police attacking fans of course is not being shown.

But your missing the whole point,if Rangers fans had totally behaved then 
there would not have been any problem at all !!!!!!! All we have heard so 
far is it was police being heavy handed,it was manchester councils fault for 
organisation,it was stoke fans,etc.It seems to be every excuse under the sun 
apart from Rangers fans !!!!!! Its a horrible reality it was Rangers fans , 
but sadly a reality none the less ! Its been a disgrace and like i said its 
not ALL rangers fans by any means but the fact is you have to accept the 
events have tarnished scottish fans and something needs to be done to make 
sure it does not happen again,and i think it MUST start with Rangers FC 
doing some inhouse policing,be it telling fans not to travel without tickets 
and setting up screens only at ibrox to watch or whatever but rioting like 
that cannot be allowed to happen again!

JB

"Jonbhoy"  wrote
> "Stevio"  wrote in message
>> Just listen to the stories coming out from Manchester on the Real Radio 
>> phone in just now. The drunken louts have to take some of the blame but 
>> so does the extremely poor organisation of Manchester. If we use Seville 
>> as
>> Seems the video footage we're being shown is quite selective and the 
>> actions of riot police attacking fans of course is not being shown.
>
> But your missing the whole point,if Rangers fans had totally behaved then 
> there would not have been any problem at all !!!!!!! All we have heard so 
> far is it was police being heavy handed,it was manchester councils fault 
> for organisation,it was stoke fans,etc.It seems to be every excuse under 
> the sun apart from Rangers fans !!!!!! Its a horrible reality it was 
> Rangers fans ,

Let's analyse:
- 150,000 fans or so
- They were hosted in the city centre rather than on the outskirts where 
they have room to host such numbers, the reason being because the city would 
make more money that way. Fault - Manchester council.
- Fans squashed together at Piccadilly with not enough room to host them, 
next to no toilets and bins. Fault - Manchester council. Result - fans get 
irritated and angry with each other at being squashed.
- Poor policing and stewarding. Fault - Manchester council.
- Lots of drink consumed during the day. Fault - people who consumed the 
drink. A bit of common sense from the council would have foreseen the need 
to ban drink from the areas where the fans were going to be during the day.
- Outsiders coming in and causing trouble. Fault: the outsiders.
- Screen failing. Fault: company responsible.
- Alternative arrangements very poorly organised, management of fans leaving 
Piccadilly and going to other places. Fault: Manchester council / police.
- Random attacks and charges on well behaved fans by riot police. Fault: 
riot police.

So is it really all Rangers fault? I think we need to look at the complete 
picture. Drunken louts are to blame for a lot of it, but Manchester have to 
take their large share of the blame too from what I have heard of all that 
went on. Are you telling me Celtic fans in this situation would have been 
any better?

<Snip>
> Let's analyse:
> - 150,000 fans or so

Seems to range from 100k to 200k depending on whos reporting.

> - They were hosted in the city centre rather than on the outskirts where 
> they have room to host such numbers, the reason being because the city 
> would make more money that way. Fault - Manchester council.

Rubbish ! The reason it was hosted there was because it was close to the 
ground.How many people would have travelled south to find they were 15 miles 
or so away from the ground???? People have travelled to major sporting 
events without tickets into major cities and overwhealmed the system yet 
riots havent broken out!!!

> - Fans squashed together at Piccadilly with not enough room to host them, 
> next to no toilets and bins. Fault - Manchester council. Result - fans get 
> irritated and angry with each other at being squashed.

And what alternative did they have?Expand the city in readiness for Rangers 
fans coming down?Say the city centre was a no go zone for rangers fans ?If 
one screen going down starts a riot imagine what would happen if police 
blocked out the whole of the city centre!!!! Toilets,yes im sure that could 
have been done better but are rangers fans so stupid that they all have to 
crush up together?How about it being Rangers advising that its a city centre 
so space would be limited and they advise people to go to ibrox to watch 
unless they have tickets?

> - Poor policing and stewarding. Fault - Manchester council.

My brother in law is in the MMP and he said they had all the resources 
possible on duty that night with all holidays cancelled.They were at full 
stretch and actually brought in police from neighbouring areas.The set up 
was guided by a mix of council,police intelligence and also with help from 
UEFA officials basing it on other cities that have held major events.What 
more could they have done?He was due off duty at 11pm and didnt walk through 
the door until 4.45am due to outbreaks throughout the night!So the plans 
were based on things that have worked in the past,its the number of thugs 
that caused the chaos!

> - Lots of drink consumed during the day. Fault - people who consumed the 
> drink. A bit of common sense from the council would have foreseen the need 
> to ban drink from the areas where the fans were going to be during the 
> day.

Agree on the drink.However again its very easy to say the cause but whats 
the solution?Lets face it the fans would have drunk on the outskirts and 
still headed for the city.Can you imagine the police stopping people at the 
"City boundary" and saying they cant go through because they are 
drunk?Result,another riot!

> - Outsiders coming in and causing trouble. Fault: the outsiders.

No doubt a few mancs will have dived in but lets be real here,we all know 
the majority were rangers fans!

> - Screen failing. Fault: company responsible.

Agree,but if your tv breaks down do you throw bottles at the repairman when 
he comes round to fix it?????

> - Alternative arrangements very poorly organised, management of fans 
> leaving Piccadilly and going to other places. Fault: Manchester council / 
> police.

But you said about areas where fans were squashed?Why do you think police 
were trying to stop fans going to the other zones ??? It was to stop people 
ending up crushed but the rangers fans took it upon themselves and the riots 
kicked off!You cant blame the police then complain about overcrowding when 
the police try to stop that!

> - Random attacks and charges on well behaved fans by riot police. Fault: 
> riot police.

Why is there a pattern this season of rangers fans blaming the police alot?

> So is it really all Rangers fault? I think we need to look at the complete 
> picture. Drunken louts are to blame for a lot of it, but Manchester have 
> to take their large share of the blame too from what I have heard of all 
> that went on

Sorry but i DO blame the rangers fans involved in the violence.If they had 
behaved and followed instruction or stayed at ibrox to watch we wouldnt even 
be debating this!

>Are you telling me Celtic fans in this situation would have been any 
>better?

All i can base it on is past history say in terms of amount of people which 
would be seville and there were no running battles in the street with the 
police like we saw in Manchester ! So at this present time all i can say is 
yes they would behave better but i think any team in scotland would be hard 
pushes to behave worse than we saw!

JB

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble? >

I saw somebody say that eight people were arrested for the minor offence of 
being drunk and disorderly.  It's about time that changed and the offence 
was not treated as a joke, as it is right through our society, and offenders 
hit with very big fines.  I'd also have those fines escalating for repeat 
offenders and other sanctions applied. Including the right to drink in 
public places being removed.  Attitudes to drink must change in this 
country.

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too crushed "
> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to the 
> other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
>
> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never 
> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester 
> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame as 
> well.

I was on holiday in Santa Monica in LA a few weeks ago. It was pretty late 
at night on a Saturday and I was walking down a few of the main streets with 
a friend of mine.  It was pretty packed with people out on the town. I was 
completely struck by the contrast between the revellers here and what I am 
used to back in Scotland (and indeed in many cities in England too). People 
in Santa Monica were enjoying themselves, drinking a little bit as a side 
event to having a good time. No one was loud or obnoxious, at no time did we 
feel in any way threatened or were we abused. No one was pissing up against 
a wall or puking up anywhere. Compare this with a similar scenario in 
Britain - it is pretty much the complete opposite with the streets full of 
pissed up, loud, obnoxious neds and just as many people who you would think 
should know better. Why is there a difference in attitude? It's pretty clear 
that the Americans were having a great time, but the difference is that no 
one was impacted or threatened, alcohol was not central to their enjoyment. 
Here it seems like getting paralytic is a requirement and people want to 
bore you with stories the next day about how pissed they were blah blah 
blah. Dont know how or when this is going to change, but as you say, it 
needs to change.

ZB wrote:
> "Stevio"  wrote in message
> news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>> 
>> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
>> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too
>> crushed " 
>> - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
>> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to
>> the other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>> 
>> 
>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never
>> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester
>> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame
>> as well.
> 
> I was on holiday in Santa Monica in LA a few weeks ago. It was pretty
> late at night on a Saturday and I was walking down a few of the main
> streets with a friend of mine.  It was pretty packed with people out
> on the town. I was completely struck by the contrast between the
> revellers here and what I am used to back in Scotland (and indeed in
> many cities in England too). People in Santa Monica were enjoying
> themselves, drinking a little bit as a side event to having a good
> time. No one was loud or obnoxious, at no time did we feel in any way
> threatened or were we abused. No one was pissing up against a wall or
> puking up anywhere. Compare this with a similar scenario in Britain -
> it is pretty much the complete opposite with the streets full of
> pissed up, loud, obnoxious neds and just as many people who you would
> think should know better. Why is there a difference in attitude? It's
> pretty clear that the Americans were having a great time, but the
> difference is that no one was impacted or threatened, alcohol was not
> central to their enjoyment. Here it seems like getting paralytic is a
> requirement and people want to bore you with stories the next day
> about how pissed they were blah blah blah. Dont know how or when this
> is going to change, but as you say, it needs to change. 

True, but do we really want to follow America's example in ANYTHING?

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:s4Wdne1vC-65c7PVnZ2dnUVZ8qLinZ2d@giganews.com...
> ZB wrote:
>> "Stevio"  wrote in message
>> news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>>>
>>> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
>>> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too
>>> crushed " - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
>>> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to
>>> the other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>>>
>>>
>>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never
>>> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester
>>> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame
>>> as well.
>>
>> I was on holiday in Santa Monica in LA a few weeks ago. It was pretty
>> late at night on a Saturday and I was walking down a few of the main
>> streets with a friend of mine.  It was pretty packed with people out
>> on the town. I was completely struck by the contrast between the
>> revellers here and what I am used to back in Scotland (and indeed in
>> many cities in England too). People in Santa Monica were enjoying
>> themselves, drinking a little bit as a side event to having a good
>> time. No one was loud or obnoxious, at no time did we feel in any way
>> threatened or were we abused. No one was pissing up against a wall or
>> puking up anywhere. Compare this with a similar scenario in Britain -
>> it is pretty much the complete opposite with the streets full of
>> pissed up, loud, obnoxious neds and just as many people who you would
>> think should know better. Why is there a difference in attitude? It's
>> pretty clear that the Americans were having a great time, but the
>> difference is that no one was impacted or threatened, alcohol was not
>> central to their enjoyment. Here it seems like getting paralytic is a
>> requirement and people want to bore you with stories the next day
>> about how pissed they were blah blah blah. Dont know how or when this
>> is going to change, but as you say, it needs to change.
>
> True, but do we really want to follow America's example in ANYTHING?

Err yes.  Their attitude to drink.

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:s4Wdne1vC-65c7PVnZ2dnUVZ8qLinZ2d@giganews.com...
> ZB wrote:
>> "Stevio"  wrote in message
>> news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>>>
>>> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
>>> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too
>>> crushed " - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
>>> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to
>>> the other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>>>
>>>
>>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never
>>> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester
>>> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame
>>> as well.
>>
>> I was on holiday in Santa Monica in LA a few weeks ago. It was pretty
>> late at night on a Saturday and I was walking down a few of the main
>> streets with a friend of mine.  It was pretty packed with people out
>> on the town. I was completely struck by the contrast between the
>> revellers here and what I am used to back in Scotland (and indeed in
>> many cities in England too). People in Santa Monica were enjoying
>> themselves, drinking a little bit as a side event to having a good
>> time. No one was loud or obnoxious, at no time did we feel in any way
>> threatened or were we abused. No one was pissing up against a wall or
>> puking up anywhere. Compare this with a similar scenario in Britain -
>> it is pretty much the complete opposite with the streets full of
>> pissed up, loud, obnoxious neds and just as many people who you would
>> think should know better. Why is there a difference in attitude? It's
>> pretty clear that the Americans were having a great time, but the
>> difference is that no one was impacted or threatened, alcohol was not
>> central to their enjoyment. Here it seems like getting paralytic is a
>> requirement and people want to bore you with stories the next day
>> about how pissed they were blah blah blah. Dont know how or when this
>> is going to change, but as you say, it needs to change.
>
> True, but do we really want to follow America's example in ANYTHING?

I've been fortunate to travel a lot around the US, and in the main they are 
the nicest people I have ever met. See all this "have a nice day" stuff, it 
actually feels genuine. Especially when travelling with young kids, they are 
very accomodating and friendly and they engage you in conversation rather 
than growl at you. Yes, a lot of them have a very insular view because they 
haven't travelled outside of their country (one of my American mates once 
said "Fox is the only channel that tells the truth" lol!) but as people, we 
can learn a hell of a lot from them about politeness and being nice to each 
other. Similarly, they have a much more sensible attitude towards alcohol 
(to be fair, I think a lot of the other Europeans have a similar attitude as 
well).

And it's pretty cool when a gorgeous brunette with big tits smiles at you 
and is nice to you as well ;-)

On May 16, 11:30 pm, "Jonbhoy"  wrote:
> <Snip>
>
> > Let's analyse:
> > - 150,000 fans or so
>
> Seems to range from 100k to 200k depending on whos reporting.
>
> > - They were hosted in the city centre rather than on the outskirts where> > they have room to host such numbers, the reason being because the city
> > would make more money that way. Fault - Manchester council.
>
> Rubbish ! The reason it was hosted there was because it was close to the
> ground.How many people would have travelled south to find they were 15 miles
> or so away from the ground???? People have travelled to major sporting
> events without tickets into major cities and overwhealmed the system yet
> riots havent broken out!!!
>
> > - Fans squashed together at Piccadilly with not enough room to host them> > next to no toilets and bins. Fault - Manchester council. Result - fans get
> > irritated and angry with each other at being squashed.
>
> And what alternative did they have?Expand the city in readiness for Rangers
> fans coming down?Say the city centre was a no go zone for rangers fans ?If> one screen going down starts a riot imagine what would happen if police
> blocked out the whole of the city centre!!!! Toilets,yes im sure that could
> have been done better but are rangers fans so stupid that they all have to> crush up together?How about it being Rangers advising that its a city centre
> so space would be limited and they advise people to go to ibrox to watch
> unless they have tickets?
>
> > - Poor policing and stewarding. Fault - Manchester council.
>
> My brother in law is in the MMP and he said they had all the resources
> possible on duty that night with all holidays cancelled.They were at full
> stretch and actually brought in police from neighbouring areas.The set up
> was guided by a mix of council,police intelligence and also with help from> UEFA officials basing it on other cities that have held major events.What
> more could they have done?He was due off duty at 11pm and didnt walk through
> the door until 4.45am due to outbreaks throughout the night!So the plans
> were based on things that have worked in the past,its the number of thugs
> that caused the chaos!
>
> > - Lots of drink consumed during the day. Fault - people who consumed the> > drink. A bit of common sense from the council would have foreseen the need
> > to ban drink from the areas where the fans were going to be during the
> > day.
>
> Agree on the drink.However again its very easy to say the cause but whats
> the solution?Lets face it the fans would have drunk on the outskirts and
> still headed for the city.Can you imagine the police stopping people at the
> "City boundary" and saying they cant go through because they are
> drunk?Result,another riot!
>
> > - Outsiders coming in and causing trouble. Fault: the outsiders.
>
> No doubt a few mancs will have dived in but lets be real here,we all know
> the majority were rangers fans!
>
> > - Screen failing. Fault: company responsible.
>
> Agree,but if your tv breaks down do you throw bottles at the repairman when
> he comes round to fix it?????
>
> > - Alternative arrangements very poorly organised, management of fans
> > leaving Piccadilly and going to other places. Fault: Manchester council > > police.
>
> But you said about areas where fans were squashed?Why do you think police
> were trying to stop fans going to the other zones ??? It was to stop people
> ending up crushed but the rangers fans took it upon themselves and the riots
> kicked off!You cant blame the police then complain about overcrowding when> the police try to stop that!
>
> > - Random attacks and charges on well behaved fans by riot police. Fault:> > riot police.
>
> Why is there a pattern this season of rangers fans blaming the police alot> > So is it really all Rangers fault? I think we need to look at the complete
> > picture. Drunken louts are to blame for a lot of it, but Manchester have> > to take their large share of the blame too from what I have heard of all> > that went on
>
> Sorry but i DO blame the rangers fans involved in the violence.If they had> behaved and followed instruction or stayed at ibrox to watch we wouldnt even
> be debating this!
>
> >Are you telling me Celtic fans in this situation would have been any
> >better?
>
> All i can base it on is past history say in terms of amount of people which
> would be seville and there were no running battles in the street with the
> police like we saw in Manchester ! So at this present time all i can say is
> yes they would behave better but i think any team in scotland would be hard
> pushes to behave worse than we saw!
>
> JB

Did you get a big person to write that for you

On May 17, 7:38 pm, "ZB"  wrote:
> "Moody Marco"  wrote in message
>
> news:s4Wdne1vC-65c7PVnZ2dnUVZ8qLinZ2d@giganews.com...
>
>
>
> > ZB wrote:
> >> "Stevio"  wrote in message
> >>news:aoiXj.4461$DZ6.1026@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> >>> Some comments from someone I know who was there (not me):
>
> >>> - "Everybody was far too drunk"
> >>> - "The fans were fighting amongst themselves because we were too
> >>> crushed " - "The council wasn't ready for us, it was badly organised"
> >>> - "As soon as that happened (the screen failing) we left and ran to
> >>> the other fanzone but I don't think most people knew where it was."
>
> >>> When is this country going to learn that binge drinking is never
> >>> acceptable and often leads to trouble? Also, why wasn't Manchester
> >>> properly prepared? They need to take a large proportion of the blame
> >>> as well.
>
> >> I was on holiday in Santa Monica in LA a few weeks ago. It was pretty
> >> late at night on a Saturday and I was walking down a few of the main
> >> streets with a friend of mine.  It was pretty packed with people out
> >> on the town. I was completely struck by the contrast between the
> >> revellers here and what I am used to back in Scotland (and indeed in
> >> many cities in England too). People in Santa Monica were enjoying
> >> themselves, drinking a little bit as a side event to having a good
> >> time. No one was loud or obnoxious, at no time did we feel in any way
> >> threatened or were we abused. No one was pissing up against a wall or
> >> puking up anywhere. Compare this with a similar scenario in Britain -
> >> it is pretty much the complete opposite with the streets full of
> >> pissed up, loud, obnoxious neds and just as many people who you would
> >> think should know better. Why is there a difference in attitude? It's
> >> pretty clear that the Americans were having a great time, but the
> >> difference is that no one was impacted or threatened, alcohol was not
> >> central to their enjoyment. Here it seems like getting paralytic is a
> >> requirement and people want to bore you with stories the next day
> >> about how pissed they were blah blah blah. Dont know how or when this
> >> is going to change, but as you say, it needs to change.
>
> > True, but do we really want to follow America's example in ANYTHING?
>
> I've been fortunate to travel a lot around the US, and in the main they are
> the nicest people I have ever met. See all this "have a nice day" stuff, it
> actually feels genuine. Especially when travelling with young kids, they are
> very accomodating and friendly and they engage you in conversation rather
> than growl at you. Yes, a lot of them have a very insular view because they
> haven't travelled outside of their country (one of my American mates once
> said "Fox is the only channel that tells the truth" lol!) but as people, we
> can learn a hell of a lot from them about politeness and being nice to each
> other. Similarly, they have a much more sensible attitude towards alcohol
> (to be fair, I think a lot of the other Europeans have a similar attitude as
> well).

You preaching about being nice and drinking, Bwhahahahahahahaha
>
> And it's pretty cool when a gorgeous brunette with big tits smiles at you
> and is nice to you as well ;-)

tell your wife that Mr morals.

On Fri, 16 May 2008 16:38:22 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
stu taylor wrote.... 

> I wouldnt like to point the blame at one particular factor but the
> drinking, the poor prepration on the part of Manchester played its
> part. But wouldnt it be nice if some football fans could just grow up?

That to me sums it up. Who cares if Manchester council weren't prepared? If 
that was the problem then the Rangers fans should have cut their losses and 
come up the road and complained then, not decided to run amok and cause 
chaos in the streets of Manchester. Never heard that two wrongs don't make 
a right?

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow