In a way I'm glad we are not getting the Dundee Utd game postponed. Games 
were postponed for the Lyon and Scotland games and Rangers and Scotland 
still lost. I think Zenit are shooting themselves in the foot by cancelling 
all their games. They will have gone a few weeks without a competitive game 
by the time of the final and lost momentum. Sure if you play there is the 
risk of injuries, but that's just the risk you have to take.

I would like to see Walter use his squad and substitutes better however over 
the next few weeks. What good is it to give Darcheville 5 minutes against 
Hibs?

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:HkXTj.98406$h65.48453@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
> In a way I'm glad we are not getting the Dundee Utd game postponed. Games 
> were postponed for the Lyon and Scotland games and Rangers and Scotland 
> still lost. I think Zenit are shooting themselves in the foot by 
> cancelling all their games. They will have gone a few weeks without a 
> competitive game by the time of the final and lost momentum. Sure if you 
> play there is the risk of injuries, but that's just the risk you have to 
> take.

Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have the 
advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount of games so 
will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a little more lazy 
giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more tired and may pick up 
another injury in the next game leaving the team short where as Zenit will 
be at full strength and rested.So think its pro's and con's at the moment 
with neither team coming out with a clear cut advantage.If it was Celtic 
playing i think at the moment id rather be in rangers position than 
zenits.Think its going to be like an OF game in terms of no matter what 
happens in terms of past few performances,its just going to come down to who 
wants it most on the night.Still reckon though it will be another 0-0 and go 
to penalties.

JB

"Stevio"  wrote
> In a way I'm glad we are not getting the Dundee Utd game postponed. Games 
> were postponed for the Lyon and Scotland games and Rangers and Scotland 
> still lost. I think Zenit are shooting themselves in the foot by 
> cancelling all their games. They will have gone a few weeks without a 
> competitive game by the time of the final and lost momentum. Sure if you 
> play there is the risk of injuries, but that's just the risk you have to 
> take.

Here's a point no-one seems to have picked up on. Rangers are being forced 
to play, away, to Aberdeen less than 48 hours before the Scottish Cup final, 
the showpiece of the Scottish season. The Aberdeen game could be a potential 
league decider that we have to win.

However, since it's "only" Queen of the South we are playing, no-one seems 
too bothered.

Do you think the SPL would have scheduled Rangers to play a game like this 
less than 48 hours before the cup final if our cup final opponents were 
Celtic and Celtic had no games the week before the cup final (like what QOTS 
have)?

Is this showing a lack of respect to QOTS and to the cup final itself?

With hindsight (a great thing as we know), the game against Gretna should 
not have been postponed and the games postponed for Scotland should not have 
been cancelled.

Also, with hindsight, the SPL should have taken the bull by the horns a 
month ago when it was becoming clear all this could happen and just tell the 
top 6 that the season would finish the week after the cup final and ignore 
all their bleating.

What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I believe, 
correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have been extended at 
all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their games, maybe the Monday 
before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday, meaning we'd be playing Saturday 
and Monday before the Zenit game? :o

"Jonbhoy"  wrote in message 
news:m-Kdnehjpv0-2L3VRVnyvAA@giganews.com...
>
> "Stevio"  wrote in message 
> news:HkXTj.98406$h65.48453@newsfe2-gui.ntli.net...
>> In a way I'm glad we are not getting the Dundee Utd game postponed. Games 
>> were postponed for the Lyon and Scotland games and Rangers and Scotland 
>> still lost. I think Zenit are shooting themselves in the foot by 
>> cancelling all their games. They will have gone a few weeks without a 
>> competitive game by the time of the final and lost momentum. Sure if you 
>> play there is the risk of injuries, but that's just the risk you have to 
>> take.
>
> Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have the 
> advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount of games 
> so will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a little more 
> lazy giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more tired and may 
> pick up another injury in the next game leaving the team short where as 
> Zenit will be at full strength and rested.So think its pro's and con's at 
> the moment with neither team coming out with a clear cut advantage.If it 
> was Celtic playing i think at the moment id rather be in rangers position 
> than zenits.Think its going to be like an OF game in terms of no matter 
> what happens in terms of past few performances,its just going to come down 
> to who wants it most on the night.Still reckon though it will be another 
> 0-0 and go to penalties.
>
> JB
>


There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have only 
played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the immediate help 
offered by the Russian FA.

Angof wrote:

>> Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have 
>> the advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount 
>> of games so will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a 
>> little more lazy giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more 
>> tired and may pick up another injury in the next game leaving the team 
>> short where as Zenit will be at full strength and rested.So think its 
>> pro's and con's at the moment with neither team coming out with a 
>> clear cut advantage.If it was Celtic playing i think at the moment id 
>> rather be in rangers position than zenits.Think its going to be like 
>> an OF game in terms of no matter what happens in terms of past few 
>> performances,its just going to come down to who wants it most on the 
>> night.Still reckon though it will be another 0-0 and go to penalties.
>>
>> JB
>>
> 
> 
> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.

Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third 
spot get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.

An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
in. I'm pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the 
same circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter 
incompetence at running Scottish Football.

pb

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:68bd0lF2sdc5nU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>
>>> Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have 
>>> the advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount of 
>>> games so will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a 
>>> little more lazy giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more 
>>> tired and may pick up another injury in the next game leaving the team 
>>> short where as Zenit will be at full strength and rested.So think its 
>>> pro's and con's at the moment with neither team coming out with a clear 
>>> cut advantage.If it was Celtic playing i think at the moment id rather 
>>> be in rangers position than zenits.Think its going to be like an OF game 
>>> in terms of no matter what happens in terms of past few performances,its 
>>> just going to come down to who wants it most on the night.Still reckon 
>>> though it will be another 0-0 and go to penalties.
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>
>>
>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>
> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third spot 
> get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>
> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in. I'm 
> pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the same 
> circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter incompetence at 
> running Scottish Football.
>
> pb

So the club of the establishment are not to be helped by the establishment ? 
Oh well another part of the empire gone.

sepang wrote:

>>>>
>>>
>>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
>> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
>> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third spot 
>> get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
>> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
>> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>>
>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
>> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in. I'm 
>> pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the same 
>> circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter incompetence at 
>> running Scottish Football.
>>
>> pb
> 
> So the club of the establishment are not to be helped by the establishment ? 
> Oh well another part of the empire gone. 
> 
> 

Do you have difficulty reading or are you just as stupid as you appear?

pb

"Stevio" wrote:
>
> Is this showing a lack of respect to QOTS and to the cup final itself?

The QOTS manager is opposed to moving the Cup Final, so I don't think they 
are worried about any lack of respect.

"Psychobudgie" wrote:
>
> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in.

Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game was 
moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. Additionally, 
Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you say.

liam* wrote:
> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
>> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in.
> 
> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game was 
> moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. Additionally, 
> Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you say. 
> 
> 

what is your point? I can't seem to find one.

pb

"Psychobudgie" wrote
> liam* wrote:
>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>> in.
>>
>> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game 
>> was moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. 
>> Additionally, Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you 
>> say.
>
> what is your point? I can't seem to find one.

I was just picking up your mistakes pb. That's all...

On Tue, 06 May 2008 14:52:42 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
Stevio wrote.... 

> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have
> been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their
> games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday,
> meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the Zenit game? :o 

What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather? Surely 
Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as well. Every team 
has managed to come through the season and play their games within the 
league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for the league (and Scottish Cup) 
to be restructured to suit themselves. It's total bullshit that its for the 
good of Scottish football, this is pure and simple for the good of Rangers 
FC. Any advantage handed to Rangers, and it would be an advantage, is a 
disadvantage to the rest of the teams involved in the top 6. There are 4 
teams fighting it out for a third place and they would rather face a tired, 
depleted Rangers than a rested one. Hibs secured a point and that was down 
to facing a Rangers team who looked tired, some looking dead on their feet. 
Changing things during a campaign is wrong. The SFA and SPL should be 
looking at how they can resolve this for future seasons rather than 
focusing on messing around with one near completion.

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

"sme"  wrote
> Stevio wrote....
>> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
>> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have
>> been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their
>> games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday,
>> meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the Zenit game? :o
>
> What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather? Surely
> Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as well. Every team
> has managed to come through the season and play their games within the
> league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for the league (and Scottish Cup)
> to be restructured to suit themselves.

So you think the league should finish as originally planned and Rangers 
should be playing a league game 2 days before their biggest game in over 30 
years? Even then I think we'd still have 1 more fixture to play as well, 
maybe we could play that 2 days after the final on Friday and finish the 
league season 2 days later on Sunday. Is that what you think should happen? 
5 games in 9 days?

M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather, but they 
also haven't reached the final of every competition they've entered, and 
Rangers had a few replays to contend with too.

On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:00:41 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
Stevio wrote.... 

> "sme"  wrote
>> Stevio wrote....
>>> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
>>> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have
>>> been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their
>>> games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday,
>>> meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the Zenit game?
>>> :o 
>>
>> What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather?
>> Surely Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as well.
>> Every team has managed to come through the season and play their
>> games within the league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for the
>> league (and Scottish Cup) to be restructured to suit themselves.
> 
> So you think the league should finish as originally planned and
> Rangers should be playing a league game 2 days before their biggest
> game in over 30 years? Even then I think we'd still have 1 more
> fixture to play as well, maybe we could play that 2 days after the
> final on Friday and finish the league season 2 days later on Sunday.
> Is that what you think should happen? 5 games in 9 days?

Yes. You entered the competitions and its obvious you don't have the 
personnel to follow it through. Price of success.

> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too. 

And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers realise 
they were struggling to compete in all these competitions? Before the 
League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your success in Europe 
that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone else has dealt with 
call offs and postponements so why should they be forced to permit 
Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust for the league? Fuck, 
if we could do that with all sports then my horse could have won the 
national if they extended it! :-P

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

>>
>> So the club of the establishment are not to be helped by the 
>> establishment ? Oh well another part of the empire gone.
>
> Do you have difficulty reading or are you just as stupid as you appear?
>
> pb

I can read perfectly thanks and appear to who ? If its you then excuse me if 
I couldn't give a fuck how it appears,it was a general reply based on your 
statement.

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:68bd0lF2sdc5nU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>
>>> Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have 
>>> the advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount of 
>>> games so will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a 
>>> little more lazy giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more 
>>> tired and may pick up another injury in the next game leaving the team 
>>> short where as Zenit will be at full strength and rested.So think its 
>>> pro's and con's at the moment with neither team coming out with a clear 
>>> cut advantage.If it was Celtic playing i think at the moment id rather 
>>> be in rangers position than zenits.Think its going to be like an OF game 
>>> in terms of no matter what happens in terms of past few performances,its 
>>> just going to come down to who wants it most on the night.Still reckon 
>>> though it will be another 0-0 and go to penalties.
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>
>>
>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>
> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third spot 
> get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>
> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in. I'm 
> pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the same 
> circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter incompetence at 
> running Scottish Football.
>
> pb

Can't argue with that.  The SFA and SPL should have come out firmly and 
immediately in support of the Scottish side flying the flag in Europe, and 
given short shrift to anyone who opposed helping out by rearranging 
fixtures.

liam* wrote:
> "Psychobudgie" wrote
>> liam* wrote:
>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>>> in.
>>> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game 
>>> was moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. 
>>> Additionally, Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you 
>>> say.
>> what is your point? I can't seem to find one.
> 
> I was just picking up your mistakes pb. That's all... 
> 
> 

What mistake?

pb

sme wrote:
> On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:00:41 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
> Stevio wrote.... 
> 
>> "sme"  wrote
>>> Stevio wrote....
>>>> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
>>>> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have
>>>> been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their
>>>> games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday,
>>>> meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the Zenit game?
>>>> :o 
>>> What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather?
>>> Surely Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as well.
>>> Every team has managed to come through the season and play their
>>> games within the league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for the
>>> league (and Scottish Cup) to be restructured to suit themselves.
>> So you think the league should finish as originally planned and
>> Rangers should be playing a league game 2 days before their biggest
>> game in over 30 years? Even then I think we'd still have 1 more
>> fixture to play as well, maybe we could play that 2 days after the
>> final on Friday and finish the league season 2 days later on Sunday.
>> Is that what you think should happen? 5 games in 9 days?
> 
> Yes. You entered the competitions and its obvious you don't have the 
> personnel to follow it through. Price of success.
> 
>> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
>> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
>> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too. 
> 
> And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers realise 
> they were struggling to compete in all these competitions? Before the 
> League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your success in Europe 
> that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone else has dealt with 
> call offs and postponements so why should they be forced to permit 
> Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust for the league? Fuck, 
> if we could do that with all sports then my horse could have won the 
> national if they extended it! :-P
> 

If Celtic where in the same position you would be looking for the exact 
same. As would every other supporter and person involved with the club. 
If you think otherwise you are deluded. It all smacks of sour grapes.

pb

sepang wrote:
>>> So the club of the establishment are not to be helped by the 
>>> establishment ? Oh well another part of the empire gone.
>> Do you have difficulty reading or are you just as stupid as you appear?
>>
>> pb
> 
> I can read perfectly thanks and appear to who ? If its you then excuse me if 
> I couldn't give a fuck how it appears,it was a general reply based on your 
> statement. 
> 
> 

It was a bitter nonsensical reply to a valid statement.

pb

"Psychobudgie" wrote:
> liam* wrote:
>> "Psychobudgie" wrote
>>> liam* wrote:
>>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>>>> in.
>>>>
>>>> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game 
>>>> was moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. 
>>>> Additionally, Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you 
>>>> say.
>>>
>>> what is your point? I can't seem to find one.
>>
>> I was just picking up your mistakes pb. That's all...
>
> What mistake?

You said "the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic were still involved 
in." in 2003. But Celtic were still challenging for the league. So that 
can't be the only difference. Also Celtic had a free week before the 
Saturday game. You've got a game tomorrow night.

"Psychobudgie" wrote
> sme wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:00:41 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
>> Stevio wrote....
>>> "sme"  wrote
>>>> Stevio wrote....
>>>>> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
>>>>> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not have
>>>>> been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play their
>>>>> games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the Wednesday,
>>>>> meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the Zenit game?
>>>>> :o
>>>> What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather?
>>>> Surely Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as well.
>>>> Every team has managed to come through the season and play their
>>>> games within the league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for the
>>>> league (and Scottish Cup) to be restructured to suit themselves.
>>> So you think the league should finish as originally planned and
>>> Rangers should be playing a league game 2 days before their biggest
>>> game in over 30 years? Even then I think we'd still have 1 more
>>> fixture to play as well, maybe we could play that 2 days after the
>>> final on Friday and finish the league season 2 days later on Sunday.
>>> Is that what you think should happen? 5 games in 9 days?
>>
>> Yes. You entered the competitions and its obvious you don't have the 
>> personnel to follow it through. Price of success.
>>
>>> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
>>> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
>>> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too.
>>
>> And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers realise 
>> they were struggling to compete in all these competitions? Before the 
>> League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your success in Europe 
>> that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone else has dealt with 
>> call offs and postponements so why should they be forced to permit 
>> Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust for the league? Fuck, 
>> if we could do that with all sports then my horse could have won the 
>> national if they extended it! :-P
>
> If Celtic where in the same position you would be looking for the exact 
> same. As would every other supporter and person involved with the club. If 
> you think otherwise you are deluded. It all smacks of sour grapes.

An alternative view is that it looks like squeeky bum time from Rangers, 
you're worried you might through away the league and you are getting your 
excuses in first.... :¬)

On May 6, 5:03 pm, "sepang"  wrote:

>
> So the club of the establishment are not to be helped by the establishment> Oh well another part of the empire gone.

the establishment club aint in anything stupid.

liam* wrote:
> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>> liam* wrote:
>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote
>>>> liam* wrote:
>>>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>>>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>>>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>>>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>>>>> in.
>>>>> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday game 
>>>>> was moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free midweek. 
>>>>> Additionally, Celtic were still in the league in 2003 despite what you 
>>>>> say.
>>>> what is your point? I can't seem to find one.
>>> I was just picking up your mistakes pb. That's all...
>> What mistake?
> 
> You said "the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic were still involved 
> in." in 2003. But Celtic were still challenging for the league. So that 
> can't be the only difference. Also Celtic had a free week before the 
> Saturday game. You've got a game tomorrow night. 
> 
> 

"I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least
before their UEFA cup final match"

pb

"Psychobudgie" wrote
> liam* wrote:
>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>> liam* wrote:
>>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote
>>>>> liam* wrote:
>>>>>> "Psychobudgie" wrote:
>>>>>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at 
>>>>>>> least before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back 
>>>>>>> then was that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where 
>>>>>>> still involved in.
>>>>>> Celtic did have a week off before Seville. The preceeding Saturday 
>>>>>> game was moved to the free midweek. Rangers do not have a free 
>>>>>> midweek. Additionally, Celtic were still in the league in 2003 
>>>>>> despite what you say.
>>>>>
>>>>> what is your point? I can't seem to find one.
>>>>
>>>> I was just picking up your mistakes pb. That's all...
>>>
>>> What mistake?
>>
>> You said "the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic were still involved 
>> in." in 2003. But Celtic were still challenging for the league. So that 
>> can't be the only difference. Also Celtic had a free week before the 
>> Saturday game. You've got a game tomorrow night.
>
> "I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least
> before their UEFA cup final match"

That bit's true. However, "The only difference back then was that the UEFA 
cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in." isn't true.

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:68bd0lF2sdc5nU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>
>>> Thats the key point,momentum.Its not really clear cut which will have 
>>> the advantage,rangers will be mentally fighting hard with the amount of 
>>> games so will have the right frame of mind where as zenit may be a 
>>> little more lazy giving rangers the advantage,but Rangers will be more 
>>> tired and may pick up another injury in the next game leaving the team 
>>> short where as Zenit will be at full strength and rested.So think its 
>>> pro's and con's at the moment with neither team coming out with a clear 
>>> cut advantage.If it was Celtic playing i think at the moment id rather 
>>> be in rangers position than zenits.Think its going to be like an OF game 
>>> in terms of no matter what happens in terms of past few performances,its 
>>> just going to come down to who wants it most on the night.Still reckon 
>>> though it will be another 0-0 and go to penalties.
>>>
>>> JB
>>>
>>
>>
>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>
> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third spot 
> get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>
> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in. I'm 
> pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the same 
> circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter incompetence at 
> running Scottish Football.

Celtic had to play Rangers 36 hours after arriving back from a  European 
away game on Friday. They had to play Liverpool twice and Rangers twice in 
the space of 13 days - UEFA Cup quarter final two legs, CIS Cup Final plus 
important league game. We won 2 of the four, drew one and were denied ET in 
the final against your mob by a disgracefully disallowed goal for "offside". 
We had to return from a shattering defeat in the UEFA Cup final and play 
away at Kilmarnock just 3 days later when it was all down to goal 
difference. No games cancelled to help us, no league extended. But don't let 
the facts get in the way!

ZB wrote:

>>>
>>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
>> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
>> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third spot 
>> get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
>> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
>> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>>
>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was that 
>> the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved in. I'm 
>> pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the same 
>> circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter incompetence at 
>> running Scottish Football.
> 
> Celtic had to play Rangers 36 hours after arriving back from a  European 
> away game on Friday. They had to play Liverpool twice and Rangers twice in 
> the space of 13 days - UEFA Cup quarter final two legs, CIS Cup Final plus 
> important league game. We won 2 of the four, drew one and were denied ET in 
> the final against your mob by a disgracefully disallowed goal for "offside". 
> We had to return from a shattering defeat in the UEFA Cup final and play 
> away at Kilmarnock just 3 days later when it was all down to goal 
> difference. No games cancelled to help us, no league extended. But don't let 
> the facts get in the way! 
> 
> 

Did Celtic have a free week before the UEFA Cup final? Did they get the 
free week due to their own request?

Thats the only fact I gave. A fact is a fact. Rangers don't want any 
other games moved. Just the one on Saturday which is a perfectly 
reasonable request given the circumstances.

pb

Psychobudgie wrote:
> Thats the only fact I gave. A fact is a fact. Rangers don't want any 
> other games moved. Just the one on Saturday which is a perfectly 
> reasonable request given the circumstances.
> 

It might have been a reasonable request if it wasn't made just as things 
look like they might not be going your way.  Would Rangers have been 
pleading for this if the weekends results were reversed?  I doubt it.

Stewart

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:68d22tF2skrl9U1@mid.individual.net...
> ZB wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>>>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>>>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>>>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>>> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
>>> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
>>> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third 
>>> spot get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
>>> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
>>> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>>>
>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>> in. I'm pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the 
>>> same circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter 
>>> incompetence at running Scottish Football.
>>
>> Celtic had to play Rangers 36 hours after arriving back from a  European 
>> away game on Friday. They had to play Liverpool twice and Rangers twice 
>> in the space of 13 days - UEFA Cup quarter final two legs, CIS Cup Final 
>> plus important league game. We won 2 of the four, drew one and were 
>> denied ET in the final against your mob by a disgracefully disallowed 
>> goal for "offside". We had to return from a shattering defeat in the UEFA 
>> Cup final and play away at Kilmarnock just 3 days later when it was all 
>> down to goal difference. No games cancelled to help us, no league 
>> extended. But don't let the facts get in the way!
>
> Did Celtic have a free week before the UEFA Cup final? Did they get the 
> free week due to their own request?
>
> Thats the only fact I gave. A fact is a fact. Rangers don't want any other 
> games moved. Just the one on Saturday which is a perfectly reasonable 
> request given the circumstances.
>
> pb

If they hadnt asked for a game to be changed earlier in the season they 
might well have been able to get a full week.Its not the "Rangers games will 
be played when we want" league! And as WS said in april he would not be 
asking for an extended season,then lo and behold when games go against 
Rangers they start to scream about how unfair it is!

JB

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:68d22tF2skrl9U1@mid.individual.net...
> ZB wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>> There probably are pros and cons but I think every manager would choose 
>>>> having a clear week before a game like this.  Dick Advocaat's team have 
>>>> only played 6 league games and he's happy to take advantage of the 
>>>> immediate help offered by the Russian FA.
>>> Screw it, I'd write off the league and rest every first team player for 
>>> the next 2 games. Play our reserve team in both games and watch as Hibs 
>>> and Motherwell cry foul as they perceive their challengers for third 
>>> spot get a perceived advantage. Frankly the SPL and SFA are a joke. The 
>>> Russians must be laughing their arses off at the lack of support for the 
>>> SPL's representatives in the UEFA cup final.
>>>
>>> An utter joke. I seem to recall Celtic getting an entire week at least 
>>> before their UEFA cup final match. The only difference back then was 
>>> that the UEFA cup was the only tournament Celtic where still involved 
>>> in. I'm pretty sure the SFA/SPL would treat them the same way given the 
>>> same circumstances. However that does not excuse their utter 
>>> incompetence at running Scottish Football.
>>
>> Celtic had to play Rangers 36 hours after arriving back from a  European 
>> away game on Friday. They had to play Liverpool twice and Rangers twice 
>> in the space of 13 days - UEFA Cup quarter final two legs, CIS Cup Final 
>> plus important league game. We won 2 of the four, drew one and were 
>> denied ET in the final against your mob by a disgracefully disallowed 
>> goal for "offside". We had to return from a shattering defeat in the UEFA 
>> Cup final and play away at Kilmarnock just 3 days later when it was all 
>> down to goal difference. No games cancelled to help us, no league 
>> extended. But don't let the facts get in the way!
>
> Did Celtic have a free week before the UEFA Cup final? Did they get the 
> free week due to their own request?

They did, but I have no idea if that was down to their own request or due to 
the fixtures

> Thats the only fact I gave. A fact is a fact. Rangers don't want any other 
> games moved. Just the one on Saturday which is a perfectly reasonable 
> request given the circumstances.

Fair enough, but one inaccuracy was that the UEFA Cup was not the only 
trophy we were involved in, we were involved in the league as well. We also 
played 4 games in 12 days the week before the UEFA Cup final. I wanted to 
make the point that Celtic had a major fixture jam when we were involved in 
4 competitions in 2003, ending up winning nothing. And I don't recall the 
SFA doing much to help us (I seem to recall us asking for one or two 
fixtures to be moved but ot was not possible).

On Tue, 06 May 2008 19:08:27 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers,
Psychobudgie wrote.... 

> sme wrote:
>> On Tue, 06 May 2008 17:00:41 GMT and in
>> uk.sport.football.clubs.rangers, Stevio wrote.... 
>> 
>>> "sme"  wrote
>>>> Stevio wrote....
>>>>> What I find unacceptable is those people (Strachan among them I
>>>>> believe, correct me if I'm wrong) who say the season should not
>>>>> have been extended at all. When exactly were Rangers meant to play
>>>>> their games, maybe the Monday before the UEFA Cup Final on the
>>>>> Wednesday, meaning we'd be playing Saturday and Monday before the
>>>>> Zenit game? 
>>>>> :o 
>>>> What are the figures for games being cancelled due to the weather?
>>>> Surely Motherwell and Gretna have had a few games cancelled as
>>>> well. Every team has managed to come through the season and play
>>>> their games within the league timeframe, yet Rangers are asking for
>>>> the league (and Scottish Cup) to be restructured to suit
>>>> themselves. 
>>> So you think the league should finish as originally planned and
>>> Rangers should be playing a league game 2 days before their biggest
>>> game in over 30 years? Even then I think we'd still have 1 more
>>> fixture to play as well, maybe we could play that 2 days after the
>>> final on Friday and finish the league season 2 days later on Sunday.
>>> Is that what you think should happen? 5 games in 9 days?
>> 
>> Yes. You entered the competitions and its obvious you don't have the 
>> personnel to follow it through. Price of success.
>> 
>>> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
>>> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
>>> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too. 
>> 
>> And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers
>> realise they were struggling to compete in all these competitions?
>> Before the League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your
>> success in Europe that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone
>> else has dealt with call offs and postponements so why should they be
>> forced to permit Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust
>> for the league? Fuck, if we could do that with all sports then my
>> horse could have won the national if they extended it! :-P
>> 
> 
> If Celtic where in the same position you would be looking for the
> exact same. As would every other supporter and person involved with
> the club. If you think otherwise you are deluded. It all smacks of
> sour grapes. 

No one is arguing any different. Of course we would be looking for the 
same. Are you honestly trying to tell me if situations were reversed you 
would be for Celtic being allowed a weeks grace for their games? Not a 
chance in hell.

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

sme wrote:

>>>> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
>>>> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
>>>> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too. 
>>> And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers
>>> realise they were struggling to compete in all these competitions?
>>> Before the League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your
>>> success in Europe that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone
>>> else has dealt with call offs and postponements so why should they be
>>> forced to permit Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust
>>> for the league? Fuck, if we could do that with all sports then my
>>> horse could have won the national if they extended it! :-P
>>>
>> If Celtic where in the same position you would be looking for the
>> exact same. As would every other supporter and person involved with
>> the club. If you think otherwise you are deluded. It all smacks of
>> sour grapes. 
> 
> No one is arguing any different. Of course we would be looking for the 
> same. Are you honestly trying to tell me if situations were reversed you 
> would be for Celtic being allowed a weeks grace for their games? Not a 
> chance in hell.
> 

Actually, I would. It's common sense to give a team preparing for a 
European Final a week to prepare. I didn't complain when Celtic got a 
week off before there final.

pb

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message
news:68h1f8F2sqkcbU1@mid.individual.net...
> sme wrote:
>
>>>>> M'well and Gretna and others have had games off due to the weather,
>>>>> but they also haven't reached the final of every competition they've
>>>>> entered, and Rangers had a few replays to contend with too.
>>>> And who's fault is it Rangers had a few replays? When did Rangers
>>>> realise they were struggling to compete in all these competitions?
>>>> Before the League Cup? January? February? It is purely due to your
>>>> success in Europe that you can't follow the league calender. Everyone
>>>> else has dealt with call offs and postponements so why should they be
>>>> forced to permit Rangers time to recuperate and mount a final thrust
>>>> for the league? Fuck, if we could do that with all sports then my
>>>> horse could have won the national if they extended it! :-P
>>>>
>>> If Celtic where in the same position you would be looking for the
>>> exact same. As would every other supporter and person involved with
>>> the club. If you think otherwise you are deluded. It all smacks of
>>> sour grapes.
>>
>> No one is arguing any different. Of course we would be looking for the 
>> same. Are you honestly trying to tell me if situations were reversed you 
>> would be for Celtic being allowed a weeks grace for their games? Not a 
>> chance in hell.
>
> Actually, I would. It's common sense to give a team preparing for a 
> European Final a week to prepare. I didn't complain when Celtic got a week 
> off before there final.

Continuing with the assumption that the shoe was on the other foot, would 
you be less likely pb to accede to Celtic's requests of a season extension, 
if doing so meant this would reduce Rangers chances of winning the league 
title and consequently obtaining an automatic Champions League spot? For me 
extending the league does not imply a Pareto Improvement, in financial 
terms.