I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?

"Ray"  wrote in message 
news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?

If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland from 
86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Ray"  wrote in message 
> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>
> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.

couldnt have put it better myself

FishSupper wrote:
> "Ray"  wrote in message
> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager,
>> former Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the
>> former Rangers manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former
>> Rangers Manager, Walter Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry,
>> SCOTLAND manager ?
>
> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken
> scotland from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.

Good answer. Ray...your a prick...but I guess you know that.

"andy"  wrote in message
news:lsWdnUhY4bYRDNDanZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message
> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
> >
> > "Ray"  wrote in message
> > news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former
> >>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers
> >>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter
> >>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
> >
> > If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland
> > from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>
> couldnt have put it better myself

Here here!

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Ray"  wrote in message 
> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>
> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.

Spot on.  Why does it matter which club the manager played 
for/managed/supports?

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Ray"  wrote in message 
> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>
> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.

To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for the 
last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.

dü the hüsker wrote:
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message
> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Ray"  wrote in message
>> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>> I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager,
>>> former Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the
>>> former Rangers manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former
>>> Rangers Manager, Walter Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry,
>>> SCOTLAND manager ?
>>
>> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken
>> scotland from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>
> To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for
> the last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.

What a surprise.

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:eNy3j.41479$JA1.22516@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Ray"  wrote in message 
>> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>>
>> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
>> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>
> To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for the 
> last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.
>

Does Jock Stein get too much credit for Celtic's EC win or 9-IAR?

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:Bdadncfsa-0AYNPanZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:eNy3j.41479$JA1.22516@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "Ray"  wrote in message 
>>> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>>>
>>> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
>>> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>>
>> To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for the 
>> last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.
>>
>
> Does Jock Stein get too much credit for Celtic's EC win or 9-IAR?

evidently!

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:Bdadncfsa-0AYNPanZ2dnUVZ8v6dnZ2d@giganews.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:eNy3j.41479$JA1.22516@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "Ray"  wrote in message 
>>> news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>>>>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former 
>>>>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers 
>>>>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter 
>>>>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>>>
>>> If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland 
>>> from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>>
>> To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for the 
>> last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.
>>
>
> Does Jock Stein get too much credit for Celtic's EC win or 9-IAR?

He gets a lot of credit for it, althought there is a big difference between 
a EC win + 9-IAR and a glorious failure in qualifying.

Even then, the credit is not all his.  One end of CP is the Jock Stein, the 
other the Lisbon Lions.  Fair recognition that players have played their 
part too.

It seems all the plaudits have gone to the last two managers and not much 
credit to the much improved standard of scottish players, in particular to 
the ones that are bringing their clubs euro experience to the international 
side.

I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better than 
Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did.  To be 
fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to choose 
from.

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message
news:eNy3j.41479$JA1.22516@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message
> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
> >
> > "Ray"  wrote in message
> > news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former
> >>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers
> >>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter
> >>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
> >
> > If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland
> > from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>
> To be honest, I think the managers have taken far too much credit for the
> last campaign.  The players were the ones that did so well.

Oh,brilliant!

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better than 
> Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did.  To be 
> fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to choose 
> from.

Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as Vogts 
but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took us to 
14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a defeat at home 
to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish played in his final 
game.

Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you have 
no idea what you're talking about.

FishSupper wrote:
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message
> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better
>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he
>> did.  To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what
>> we had to choose from.
>
> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as
> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith
> took us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game
> - a defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that
> Mcleish played in his final game.
>
> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look
> you have no idea what you're talking about.

Again.

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better than 
>> Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did.  To be 
>> fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to choose 
>> from.
>
> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as Vogts 
> but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took us to 
> 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a defeat at 
> home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish played in his 
> final game.
>
> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
> have no idea what you're talking about.

Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?

Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
country.

If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on offer to 
a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>
>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>
>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better than 
>>> Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did.  To be 
>>> fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to choose 
>>> from.
>>
>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as Vogts 
>> but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took us to 
>> 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a defeat at 
>> home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish played in 
>> his final game.
>>
>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
>> have no idea what you're talking about.
>
> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>
> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
> better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
> country.
>
> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on offer 
> to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.


Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than they 
were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are so much 
better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.

It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like Naismith, 
Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better players now than 
three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he was 3 years ago - but 
thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the national team.

Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts and 
chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is a top 
class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best out of them. 
If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is down to the 
excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done by McLeish, then - 
well, we know your agenda and need say no more.

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:X7adnSmGovfZvc7anZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>
>>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better 
>>>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did. 
>>>> To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to 
>>>> choose from.
>>>
>>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as 
>>> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took 
>>> us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a 
>>> defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish 
>>> played in his final game.
>>>
>>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
>>> have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
>> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>>
>> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
>> better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
>> country.
>>
>> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on offer 
>> to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.
>
>
> Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than 
> they were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are so 
> much better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.
>
> It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like Naismith, 
> Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better players now 
> than three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he was 3 years ago - 
> but thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the national team.
>
> Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts and 
> chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is a top 
> class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best out of 
> them.

Like Everton?

> If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is down to the 
> excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done by McLeish, 
> then - well, we know your agenda and need say no more.
>

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:X7adnSmGovfZvc7anZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>
>>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better 
>>>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did. 
>>>> To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had to 
>>>> choose from.
>>>
>>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as 
>>> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took 
>>> us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a 
>>> defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish 
>>> played in his final game.
>>>
>>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
>>> have no idea what you're talking about.
>>
>> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
>> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>>
>> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
>> better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
>> country.
>>
>> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on offer 
>> to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.
>
>
> Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than 
> they were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are so 
> much better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.
>
> It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like Naismith, 
> Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better players now 
> than three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he was 3 years ago - 
> but thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the national team.
>
> Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts and 
> chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is a top 
> class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best out of 
> them. If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is down to 
> the excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done by McLeish, 
> then - well, we know your agenda and need say no more.
>

You're almost comical.  I presume you only started taking an interest in 
Scotland in the last couple of years.

On 28 Nov, 17:10, "Moody Marco"  wrote:
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message
>
> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>
>
>
> > "Ray"  wrote in message
> >news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> >>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former
> >>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former Rangers
> >>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter
> >>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>
> > If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland
> > from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>
> Spot on.  Why does it matter which club the manager played
> for/managed/supports?

So if Martin O'Neill became Scotland manager, you wouldn't mind?

"Y.N.W.A"  wrote in message 
news:a32defb4-ecfb-44cb-8665-b7300988235e@w56g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 28 Nov, 17:10, "Moody Marco"  wrote:
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message
>>
>> news:yNmdnfBMubwGFtDanZ2dnUVZ8qClnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > "Ray"  wrote in message
>> >news:m%e3j.60633$Eq.33364@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>> >>I wonder which former Rangers player, or former Rangers manager, former
>> >>Rangers player, Gordon Smith, will appoint to replace the former 
>> >>Rangers
>> >>manager, Bick Eck (who replaced another former Rangers Manager, Walter
>> >>Smith) to be the next Rangers, erm, sorry, SCOTLAND manager ?
>>
>> > If you don't like the fact that ex-Rangers managers have taken scotland
>> > from 86th to 13th in the world fuck off and support Ireland.
>>
>> Spot on.  Why does it matter which club the manager played
>> for/managed/supports?
>
> So if Martin O'Neill became Scotland manager, you wouldn't mind?

Of course I wouldn't, he's a very good manager and a first class 
man-manager - exactly what Scotland need.  Plus he has an in-depth of 
Scottish football.  I'd even go as far as to say he'd be among my absolute 
ideal candidates.

So I'll ask again: Why does it matter which club the manager played 
for/managed/supports?

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:Cid5j.57763$EU1.26184@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
> news:X7adnSmGovfZvc7anZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>> news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>
>>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>>> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better 
>>>>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did. 
>>>>> To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had 
>>>>> to choose from.
>>>>
>>>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as 
>>>> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took 
>>>> us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a 
>>>> defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish 
>>>> played in his final game.
>>>>
>>>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
>>>> have no idea what you're talking about.
>>>
>>> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
>>> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>>>
>>> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
>>> better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
>>> country.
>>>
>>> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on 
>>> offer to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.
>>
>>
>> Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than 
>> they were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are so 
>> much better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.
>>
>> It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like 
>> Naismith, Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better 
>> players now than three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he was 
>> 3 years ago - but thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the 
>> national team.
>>
>> Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts 
>> and chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is a 
>> top class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best out 
>> of them. If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is down 
>> to the excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done by 
>> McLeish, then - well, we know your agenda and need say no more.
>>
>
> You're almost comical.  I presume you only started taking an interest in 
> Scotland in the last couple of years.

Only a fool would make such a statement without any evidence to back it up.

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:BPCdnTVgwsN9UMjaRVnygAA@bt.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:Cid5j.57763$EU1.26184@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>
>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>> news:X7adnSmGovfZvc7anZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>> news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>
>>>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better 
>>>>>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he did. 
>>>>>> To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what we had 
>>>>>> to choose from.
>>>>>
>>>>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as 
>>>>> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith took 
>>>>> us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final game - a 
>>>>> defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players that Mcleish 
>>>>> played in his final game.
>>>>>
>>>>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look you 
>>>>> have no idea what you're talking about.
>>>>
>>>> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
>>>> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>>>>
>>>> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are vastly 
>>>> better than they were, due to experience since collected for club and 
>>>> country.
>>>>
>>>> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on 
>>>> offer to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.
>>>
>>>
>>> Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than 
>>> they were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are 
>>> so much better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.
>>>
>>> It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like 
>>> Naismith, Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better 
>>> players now than three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he was 
>>> 3 years ago - but thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the 
>>> national team.
>>>
>>> Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts 
>>> and chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is 
>>> a top class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best 
>>> out of them. If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is 
>>> down to the excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done by 
>>> McLeish, then - well, we know your agenda and need say no more.
>>>
>>
>> You're almost comical.  I presume you only started taking an interest in 
>> Scotland in the last couple of years.
>
> Only a fool would make such a statement without any evidence to back it 
> up.

How many times have Scottish teams qualified for the last 16 of the CL?  3 
times, could be 4 next week.  All in the last couple of years.  Done with 
increasing number of Scottish players involved.  There's more scottish 
players playing in the Premiership than there were a couple of years ago. 
All points to there being a better standard of scottish player to select for 
the national team.

My job is done, time for you to think for yourself.

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:0Dt5j.53890$JA1.42542@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>
> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
> news:BPCdnTVgwsN9UMjaRVnygAA@bt.com...
>>
>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>> news:Cid5j.57763$EU1.26184@fe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>
>>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>>> news:X7adnSmGovfZvc7anZ2dnUVZ8vKdnZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:IzA4j.1563$kt3.491@fe3.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>
>>>>> "FishSupper"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:BOadnbwihe7Iy8zaRVnyvwA@bt.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
>>>>>> news:HUQ3j.42664$JA1.21806@fe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think either Smith or McLeish would have faired much better 
>>>>>>> than Vogts if they were managing the side at the same time as he 
>>>>>>> did. To be fair, I don't think many could have done much with what 
>>>>>>> we had to choose from.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Walter Smith had exactly the same pool of players to choose from as 
>>>>>> Vogts but whereas Vogts took us to 86th with those players, Smith 
>>>>>> took us to 14th -  and the team which vogts played in his final 
>>>>>> game - a defeat at home to Norway - featured 8 of the same players 
>>>>>> that Mcleish played in his final game.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks to me like your knee-jerk anti-rangerness is making you look 
>>>>>> you have no idea what you're talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>> Did Vogts have an experienced Scot Brown, McManus or Hutton to select? 
>>>>> Aren't Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher more mature campaigners now?
>>>>>
>>>>> Many of the players may have been the same but those players are 
>>>>> vastly better than they were, due to experience since collected for 
>>>>> club and country.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you can't see that Vogts had the worst choice of players ever on 
>>>>> offer to a Scotland manager, then you're not worth my time.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gordon, McFadden and Fletcher may be marginally better players now than 
>>>> they were three years ago, but only a fool would suggest that they are 
>>>> so much better as to belong to a 14th place team rather than an 86th.
>>>>
>>>> It would also only be a fool who would suggest that players like 
>>>> Naismith, Miller, O'Connor, Ferguson and McCulloch are vastly better 
>>>> players now than three years ago. Weir is actually less good than he 
>>>> was 3 years ago - but thnaks to Vogts fuckwittery, he was lost to the 
>>>> national team.
>>>>
>>>> Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts 
>>>> and chose largely the same team as Vogts - difference was that Smith is 
>>>> a top class man-manager and knows how to bond a team and get the best 
>>>> out of them. If you can't see that the revival of Scottish fortunes is 
>>>> down to the excellent groundwork laid by Smith and the follow-up done 
>>>> by McLeish, then - well, we know your agenda and need say no more.
>>>>
>>>
>>> You're almost comical.  I presume you only started taking an interest in 
>>> Scotland in the last couple of years.
>>
>> Only a fool would make such a statement without any evidence to back it 
>> up.
>
> How many times have Scottish teams qualified for the last 16 of the CL?  3 
> times, could be 4 next week.  All in the last couple of years.  Done with 
> increasing number of Scottish players involved.

Scottish players who have received excellent coaching and confidence from 
Smith and Mcleish. It's a virtuous circle - the national team develops 
player's confidence and skills at playing at the highest level > players 
take this into their club form and the CL > increased CL success helps the 
national team etc etc.

Fact is it ALL started with Smith and Mcleish took it on.
Once again, Smith had EXACTLY the same players to choose from as Vogts.
Once again, Smith took us to 14th with largely the same team as Vogts had.

> There's more scottish players playing in the Premiership than there were a 
> couple of years ago.

Number of Premiership players in Vogts last team = 7
Number of Premiership players in McLeish's last team = 3


> My job is done, time for you to think for yourself.

Your job seems to be newsgroup Jester - you've got tenure.