Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.

GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is the 
better overall keeper
LB: ??? - can't be Naylor, he is utter pish. Is Papac good enough to deserve 
a slot? can we give it to Steven Smith who was injured or even Mark Wilson 
who is a better LB than Naylor?
CB: Cuellar - best defender in the league
CB: McManus - pretty raw defender, but just edges Caldwell and Weir overall. 
Weir has been foudn out the last few weeks, he is past it and Caldwell has 
been Celtic's best defender for the last few weeks but not consistent enough 
over the season
RB: Hinkel - I quite like Whittaker as a defender but he plays midfield 
mainly, so will go for Hinkel
LM: McGeady - showed tremendous improvement this season
CM: Robson - outstanding signing, one of the main reasons we won the league 
this year
CM: Davis - form has faded the last few weeks, but Ferguson has been average 
at best this season. I am tempted to go with Hartley instead but will stick 
with Davis
F: McDonald - 31 goals says it all
F: JVoH - 20 goals, several important goals as well and probably the most 
important goal of the season v Rangers

over to you...

"ZB"  wrote
> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
....
> over to you...


McGregor; Papac, Hutton, Weir, Cueller; Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, McCulloch; 
Boyd, Darcheville.

That wasn't difficult was it? :-)

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:NQ2_j.8973$DZ6.2492@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "ZB"  wrote
>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
> ....
>> over to you...
>
>
> McGregor; Papac, Hutton, Weir, Cueller; Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, 
> McCulloch; Boyd, Darcheville.
>
> That wasn't difficult was it? :-)

Winning the league (or any other important trophies) was a little more 
difficult for the above dross, right enough. ;-)

ZB wrote:
> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
> 
> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is the 
> better overall keeper
> LB: ??? - can't be Naylor, he is utter pish. Is Papac good enough to deserve 
> a slot? can we give it to Steven Smith who was injured or even Mark Wilson 
> who is a better LB than Naylor?
> CB: Cuellar - best defender in the league
> CB: McManus - pretty raw defender, but just edges Caldwell and Weir overall. 
> Weir has been foudn out the last few weeks, he is past it and Caldwell has 
> been Celtic's best defender for the last few weeks but not consistent enough 
> over the season
> RB: Hinkel - I quite like Whittaker as a defender but he plays midfield 
> mainly, so will go for Hinkel
> LM: McGeady - showed tremendous improvement this season
> CM: Robson - outstanding signing, one of the main reasons we won the league 
> this year
> CM: Davis - form has faded the last few weeks, but Ferguson has been average 
> at best this season. I am tempted to go with Hartley instead but will stick 
> with Davis
> F: McDonald - 31 goals says it all
> F: JVoH - 20 goals, several important goals as well and probably the most 
> important goal of the season v Rangers
> 
> over to you...
> 
> 

Firstly where is the Right Midfielder or is this team playing with 10 men?

McGregor for me and most Journalists were surprised he wasn't in the 
running for Player of the Year.

If you are going to select Davis and Robson based on half a season then 
Hutton is in at right back based on half a season. On the subject of 
Robson; Ferguson, Thomson, Brown or Hartley would be in there before him 
as would Nakamura on the right.

I'd have Boyd alongside McDonald but that's a personal thing. Boyd 
scored more goals than he made appearances this season and in a team 
that could supply delivery I shudder to think how many goals he would score.

So to sum up.

McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
McGeady, Boyd, McDonald

There is nothing between the two Old Firm teams in my opinion. I think 
Rangers are stronger in the middle of the park and Celtic have the edge 
in wider attacking areas which was reflected in the closeness of the 
league. Rangers were victims of their own success just as Celtic were 
during their UEFA cup run under MON.

regards,

pb

"ZB"  wrote in message 
news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>
> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is 
> the better overall keeper

Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.

On May 25, 10:21 am, "Angof"  wrote:
> "ZB"  wrote in message
>
> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> > Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>
> > GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is> > the better overall keeper
>
> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.

Boruc is easily the better keeper.

On May 25, 9:38 am, Psychobudgie  wrote:
> ZB wrote:
> > Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>
> > GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is the
> > better overall keeper
> > LB: ??? - can't be Naylor, he is utter pish. Is Papac good enough to deserve
> > a slot? can we give it to Steven Smith who was injured or even Mark Wilson
> > who is a better LB than Naylor?
> > CB: Cuellar - best defender in the league
> > CB: McManus - pretty raw defender, but just edges Caldwell and Weir overall.
> > Weir has been foudn out the last few weeks, he is past it and Caldwell has
> > been Celtic's best defender for the last few weeks but not consistent enough
> > over the season
> > RB: Hinkel - I quite like Whittaker as a defender but he plays midfield
> > mainly, so will go for Hinkel
> > LM: McGeady - showed tremendous improvement this season
> > CM: Robson - outstanding signing, one of the main reasons we won the league
> > this year
> > CM: Davis - form has faded the last few weeks, but Ferguson has been average
> > at best this season. I am tempted to go with Hartley instead but will stick
> > with Davis
> > F: McDonald - 31 goals says it all
> > F: JVoH - 20 goals, several important goals as well and probably the most
> > important goal of the season v Rangers
>
> > over to you...
>
> Firstly where is the Right Midfielder or is this team playing with 10 men?> McGregor for me and most Journalists were surprised he wasn't in the
> running for Player of the Year.
>
> If you are going to select Davis and Robson based on half a season then
> Hutton is in at right back based on half a season. On the subject of
> Robson; Ferguson, Thomson, Brown or Hartley would be in there before him
> as would Nakamura on the right.
>
> I'd have Boyd alongside McDonald but that's a personal thing. Boyd
> scored more goals than he made appearances this season and in a team
> that could supply delivery I shudder to think how many goals he would score.
>
> So to sum up.
>
> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson,
> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>
> There is nothing between the two Old Firm teams in my opinion. I think
> Rangers are stronger in the middle of the park and Celtic have the edge
> in wider attacking areas which was reflected in the closeness of the
> league. Rangers were victims of their own success just as Celtic were
> during their UEFA cup run under MON.
>
> regards,
>
> pb- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

On May 25, 9:38 am, Psychobudgie  wrote:
> ZB wrote:
> > Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>
> > GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is the
> > better overall keeper
> > LB: ??? - can't be Naylor, he is utter pish. Is Papac good enough to deserve
> > a slot? can we give it to Steven Smith who was injured or even Mark Wilson
> > who is a better LB than Naylor?
> > CB: Cuellar - best defender in the league
> > CB: McManus - pretty raw defender, but just edges Caldwell and Weir overall.
> > Weir has been foudn out the last few weeks, he is past it and Caldwell has
> > been Celtic's best defender for the last few weeks but not consistent enough
> > over the season
> > RB: Hinkel - I quite like Whittaker as a defender but he plays midfield
> > mainly, so will go for Hinkel
> > LM: McGeady - showed tremendous improvement this season
> > CM: Robson - outstanding signing, one of the main reasons we won the league
> > this year
> > CM: Davis - form has faded the last few weeks, but Ferguson has been average
> > at best this season. I am tempted to go with Hartley instead but will stick
> > with Davis
> > F: McDonald - 31 goals says it all
> > F: JVoH - 20 goals, several important goals as well and probably the most
> > important goal of the season v Rangers
>
> > over to you...
>
> Firstly where is the Right Midfielder or is this team playing with 10 men?> McGregor for me and most Journalists were surprised he wasn't in the
> running for Player of the Year.
>
> If you are going to select Davis and Robson based on half a season then
> Hutton is in at right back based on half a season. On the subject of
> Robson; Ferguson, Thomson, Brown or Hartley would be in there before him
> as would Nakamura on the right.
>
> I'd have Boyd alongside McDonald but that's a personal thing. Boyd
> scored more goals than he made appearances this season and in a team
> that could supply delivery I shudder to think how many goals he would score.
>
> So to sum up.
>
> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson,
> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald

You cannot be serious about Ferguson? He must be a major
disappointment for you lot. He's been garbage this season.

"HoopsBhoy"  wrote in message
news:7c7bb57d-518c-4ded-801e-23826f69d48c@79g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
On May 25, 9:38 am, Psychobudgie  wrote:
> ZB wrote:
> > Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>
>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson,
>> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>
>You cannot be serious about Ferguson? He must be a major
>disappointment for you lot. He's been garbage this season.

I think there are giving him the sympathy vote but he's be annoynoumous for 
months. Central midfield would definitely go to Paul Hartley since he's 
played brilliant at the "business end" of the league. And unlike Hutton who 
only played at the start of the year.

"Stevio"  wrote in message
news:NQ2_j.8973$DZ6.2492@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "ZB"  wrote
>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
> ....
>> over to you...
>
>
> McGregor; Papac, Hutton, Weir, Cueller; Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, 
> McCulloch; Boyd, Darcheville.
>
> That wasn't difficult was it? :-)

LOL and of course you'd pick Walter Smith as manager of the year too...who 
are you ...Darryl Broadfooot? ;)

"liam*"  wrote
> "Stevio"  wrote in message
>> "ZB"  wrote
>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>
>> McGregor; Papac, Hutton, Weir, Cueller; Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, 
>> McCulloch; Boyd, Darcheville.
>> That wasn't difficult was it? :-)
>
> LOL and of course you'd pick Walter Smith as manager of the year too...who 
> are you ...Darryl Broadfooot? ;)

Of course Walter is the manager, no other contenders really! Tell you what 
though, I'll give McGeady a place on the bench (well he'll be there anyway 
inside Nacho's pocket)!

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
> ZB wrote:
>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>
>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is 
>> the better overall keeper
>> LB: ??? - can't be Naylor, he is utter pish. Is Papac good enough to 
>> deserve a slot? can we give it to Steven Smith who was injured or even 
>> Mark Wilson who is a better LB than Naylor?
>> CB: Cuellar - best defender in the league
>> CB: McManus - pretty raw defender, but just edges Caldwell and Weir 
>> overall. Weir has been foudn out the last few weeks, he is past it and 
>> Caldwell has been Celtic's best defender for the last few weeks but not 
>> consistent enough over the season
>> RB: Hinkel - I quite like Whittaker as a defender but he plays midfield 
>> mainly, so will go for Hinkel
>> LM: McGeady - showed tremendous improvement this season
>> CM: Robson - outstanding signing, one of the main reasons we won the 
>> league this year
>> CM: Davis - form has faded the last few weeks, but Ferguson has been 
>> average at best this season. I am tempted to go with Hartley instead but 
>> will stick with Davis
>> F: McDonald - 31 goals says it all
>> F: JVoH - 20 goals, several important goals as well and probably the most 
>> important goal of the season v Rangers
>>
>> over to you...
>>
>>
>
> Firstly where is the Right Midfielder or is this team playing with 10 men?
>
> McGregor for me and most Journalists were surprised he wasn't in the 
> running for Player of the Year.
>
> If you are going to select Davis and Robson based on half a season then 
> Hutton is in at right back based on half a season. On the subject of 
> Robson; Ferguson, Thomson, Brown or Hartley would be in there before him 
> as would Nakamura on the right.
>
> I'd have Boyd alongside McDonald but that's a personal thing. Boyd scored 
> more goals than he made appearances this season and in a team that could 
> supply delivery I shudder to think how many goals he would score.
>
> So to sum up.
>
> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>
> There is nothing between the two Old Firm teams in my opinion. I think 
> Rangers are stronger in the middle of the park and Celtic have the edge in 
> wider attacking areas which was reflected in the closeness of the league. 
> Rangers were victims of their own success just as Celtic were during their 
> UEFA cup run under MON.

I would agree with Hutton, good point. Ferguson has been pish this year to 
be honest, and I do (or did) rate im highly as a player. Robson has been our 
best player since getting a slot in the team and is worthy of his place 
ahead of anyone else.

I forgot about RM: Nakamura, without a doubt. His form 2nd half of the 
season has been of a very high standard. I love players who keep the ball, 
slow the game down and retain possesion and that is what Nakamura does 
(apart from having an exceptional freekick and number of assists).

Boruc, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Naka, Robson, Davis, McGeady, JVoH, 
McDonald

"Stevio"  wrote in message 
news:Nkg_j.9207$DZ6.1157@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> "liam*"  wrote
>> "Stevio"  wrote in message
>>> "ZB"  wrote
>>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>>
>>> McGregor; Papac, Hutton, Weir, Cueller; Ferguson, Thomson, Davis, 
>>> McCulloch; Boyd, Darcheville.
>>> That wasn't difficult was it? :-)
>>
>> LOL and of course you'd pick Walter Smith as manager of the year 
>> too...who are you ...Darryl Broadfooot? ;)
>
> Of course Walter is the manager, no other contenders really! Tell you what 
> though, I'll give McGeady a place on the bench (well he'll be there anyway 
> inside Nacho's pocket)!
>
That would be nacho your saviour on Thursday would it ya fuckin fanny

What the fuck happened to no surrender on Thursday ?

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>
>

Ferguson...that's a joke right?

Angof wrote:
> 
> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, 
>> Thomson, McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>
>>
> 
> Ferguson...that's a joke right?

Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 5 
minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you would 
still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure. By the way, how 
is Le Guen doing at PSG?

Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
Scottish midfielder bar none.

pb

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:69vpakF35sv4nU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>>
>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
>>> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ferguson...that's a joke right?
>
> Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 5 
> minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you would 
> still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure.

A bit over stated, I don't hate him for a start.  True I wanted him sacked 
but I realise I'm in a minority and there's little point harking back to 
that all the time. It is not what I'm judging his current performances on. 
I have praised and criticised him before and after the PLG thing.


>By the way, how  is Le Guen doing at PSG?

Nothing special from what I know.  Avoided relegation but I don't know his 
circumstances there.  You are showing that you have no understanding of the 
situation.  I don't care about PLG's qualities as a manager, or for 
Ferguson's as a player, when it comes to a situation like that.  If a player 
refuses to follow the instructions of the manager of Rangers FC, I will come 
down on the side of the manager...didn't matter that it was PLG. As it 
happens I suspect Ferguson did worse than that but there's little point 
raking it up all the time.


>
> Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
> Scottish midfielder bar none.


Even if that were true, and I'd be surprised if those days return, he in no 
way deserves to be picked for the OF team of the year on this years overall 
performance. In fact if he were judged like other members of the squad, his 
automatic inclusion in the Rangers side would be questioned.

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:69vpakF35sv4nU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>>
>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
>>> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Ferguson...that's a joke right?
>
> Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 5 
> minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you would 
> still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure. By the way, how is 
> Le Guen doing at PSG?
>
> Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
> Scottish midfielder bar none.

Maybe true, but he has been shite this year and wouldnt even be a sub in the 
OF team of the year IMO.

Angof wrote:
> 
> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
> news:69vpakF35sv4nU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Angof wrote:
>>>
>>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>>> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, 
>>>> Thomson, McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Ferguson...that's a joke right?
>>
>> Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 
>> 5 minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you 
>> would still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure.
> 
> A bit over stated, I don't hate him for a start.  True I wanted him 
> sacked but I realise I'm in a minority and there's little point harking 
> back to that all the time. It is not what I'm judging his current 
> performances on. I have praised and criticised him before and after the 
> PLG thing.
> 

Judging by some of your posts on the subject of BF over the last couple 
of years I would argue that to the contrary. Your statement that you 
wanted him sacked sums things up quite well.

>> By the way, how  is Le Guen doing at PSG?
> 
> Nothing special from what I know.  Avoided relegation but I don't know 
> his circumstances there.  You are showing that you have no understanding 
> of the situation.  I don't care about PLG's qualities as a manager, or 
> for Ferguson's as a player, when it comes to a situation like that.  If 
> a player refuses to follow the instructions of the manager of Rangers 
> FC, I will come down on the side of the manager...didn't matter that it 
> was PLG. As it happens I suspect Ferguson did worse than that but 
> there's little point raking it up all the time.

Do you think the Captain of a club is obliged to keep his mouth shut if 
the current manager is obviously making a complete and utter mess of things?

> 
> 
>>
>> Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
>> Scottish midfielder bar none.
> 
> 
> Even if that were true, and I'd be surprised if those days return, he in 
> no way deserves to be picked for the OF team of the year on this years 
> overall performance. In fact if he were judged like other members of the 
> squad, his automatic inclusion in the Rangers side would be questioned.

What utter tosh. As was proven in the few games he didn't play in this 
season, we struggled badly without him.

Who would you have played before him? Davis, Thompson, Hemdani or one of 
our other forward thinking midfielders?

He struggled towards the end of the season while carrying a well 
publicised injury and before that was one of our better performers. He 
wasn't the only one who struggled towards the end of the season. Even 
the normally composed Cuellar struggled with the number of games but yet 
again you chose to single out Ferguson again.

pb

pb

ZB wrote:
> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
> news:69vpakF35sv4nU1@mid.individual.net...
>> Angof wrote:
>>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>>> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, Thomson, 
>>>> McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Ferguson...that's a joke right?
>> Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 5 
>> minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you would 
>> still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure. By the way, how is 
>> Le Guen doing at PSG?
>>
>> Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
>> Scottish midfielder bar none.
> 
> Maybe true, but he has been shite this year and wouldnt even be a sub in the 
> OF team of the year IMO. 
> 
> 

He was not up to his own high standard from around February onwards. 
Before then he was. He suffered from playing with Injuries and playing 
with Daily. IMHO he also suffered from the midfield changing on a weekly 
basis.

regards,

pb

"Angof"  wrote in message 
news:FMSdneb-AdkFsqTVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "ZB"  wrote in message 
> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>
>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is 
>> the better overall keeper
>
> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.

Rangers supposedly had a better defence than Celtic but Boruc conceded 6 
less goals in the SPL (they both missed a few games through injury).

"Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
news:6a06sgF359eoaU1@mid.individual.net...
> Angof wrote:
>>
>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>> news:69vpakF35sv4nU1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Angof wrote:
>>>>
>>>> "Psychobudgie"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:69smqpF34vsnlU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>
>>>>> McGregor, Hutton, Cuellar, McManus, Naylor, Nakamura, Ferguson, 
>>>>> Thomson, McGeady, Boyd, McDonald
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ferguson...that's a joke right?
>>>
>>> Ferguson could ballet dance through the Celtic team, play keepy up for 5 
>>> minutes then fire an overhead kick into the postage stamp and you would 
>>> still hate the guy for his part in Le Guen's departure.
>>
>> A bit over stated, I don't hate him for a start.  True I wanted him 
>> sacked but I realise I'm in a minority and there's little point harking 
>> back to that all the time. It is not what I'm judging his current 
>> performances on. I have praised and criticised him before and after the 
>> PLG thing.
>>
>
> Judging by some of your posts on the subject of BF over the last couple of 
> years I would argue that to the contrary. Your statement that you wanted 
> him sacked sums things up quite well.

Again you are showing ignorance of my position.  Wanting him sacked  had 
nothing to do with his abilites as a footballer.

>
>>> By the way, how  is Le Guen doing at PSG?
>>
>> Nothing special from what I know.  Avoided relegation but I don't know 
>> his circumstances there.  You are showing that you have no understanding 
>> of the situation.  I don't care about PLG's qualities as a manager, or 
>> for Ferguson's as a player, when it comes to a situation like that.  If a 
>> player refuses to follow the instructions of the manager of Rangers FC, I 
>> will come down on the side of the manager...didn't matter that it was 
>> PLG. As it happens I suspect Ferguson did worse than that but there's 
>> little point raking it up all the time.
>
> Do you think the Captain of a club is obliged to keep his mouth shut if 
> the current manager is obviously making a complete and utter mess of 
> things?

He should not ignore the manager's,  instructions that's for sure (and I 
think he went much further than that).  If he has issues he could take them 
to the chairman I suppose, certainly not go running to the press.  Do you 
think Davie Mieklejohn would have been within his rights to take action 
against William Struth when he presided over our worst ever season?


>>>
>>> Ferguson when he plays well and is not carrying injuries is the best 
>>> Scottish midfielder bar none.
>>
>>
>> Even if that were true, and I'd be surprised if those days return, he in 
>> no way deserves to be picked for the OF team of the year on this years 
>> overall performance. In fact if he were judged like other members of the 
>> squad, his automatic inclusion in the Rangers side would be questioned.
>
> What utter tosh. As was proven in the few games he didn't play in this 
> season, we struggled badly without him.

He has had an average season at best and does not deserve a place in any 
team of the year....nothing was 'proven' by the games he missed IMO.

Funny though that a 'Barry' man will always come out with that yet often 
slag PLG's record. Did you know that the Frenchman's league record at 
Rangers without Ferguson's 'contribution' was: P7 W5 D2 L 0 F13 A4 ?

>
> Who would you have played before him? Davis, Thompson, Hemdani or one of 
> our other forward thinking midfielders?
> was one of our better supporters.  He struggled towards the end of the 
> season while carrying a well publicised injury and before that was one of 
> our better performers. He wasn't the only one who struggled towards the 
> end of the season. Even the normally composed Cuellar struggled with the 
> number of games but yet again you chose to single out Ferguson again.
>

So there are reasons (excuses) for his poor performances...so what?  Doesn't 
alter the fact that he has been generally poor and does not warrant a place 
in the OF team of the year. I don't agree that it has only been the end of 
this season either.  He has been on a steady decline since he returned from 
Blackburn.  Of course he has had some very good performances (which you 
could say about just about every player actually)  but overall he has been 
average by his previous standard.  If he were judged as others would be as a 
£6 million signing,  instead of with fawning sycophancy, he'd be getting 
pelters.

"ZB"  wrote in message 
news:6a1k26F35otu3U1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Angof"  wrote in message 
> news:FMSdneb-AdkFsqTVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>
>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>>
>>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc is 
>>> the better overall keeper
>>
>> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.
>
> Rangers supposedly had a better defence than Celtic but Boruc conceded 6 
> less goals in the SPL (they both missed a few games through injury).
>

That's schoolboy logic.  Neither McGregor or Boruc are the Rangers and 
Celtic's defence and it's silly to judge in that way.

"Angof"  wrote in message 
news:5aGdnQbfh5dyT6bVnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "ZB"  wrote in message 
> news:6a1k26F35otu3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Angof"  wrote in message 
>> news:FMSdneb-AdkFsqTVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>
>>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>>> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>>>
>>>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc 
>>>> is the better overall keeper
>>>
>>> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.
>>
>> Rangers supposedly had a better defence than Celtic but Boruc conceded 6 
>> less goals in the SPL (they both missed a few games through injury).
>>
>
> That's schoolboy logic.  Neither McGregor or Boruc are the Rangers and 
> Celtic's defence and it's silly to judge in that way.

Are you not even able to have a simple discussion without making personal 
comments FFS?

From what I have seen of both, Boruc is a far better keeper than McGregor. 
Better shot stopper, better on cross balls, more commanding, better 
organiser of his defence. And the statistics back it up.

Everyone has been going on about what a great defence Rangers have and how 
poor Celtic's defence is. Yet Boruc conceded considerably  less goals than 
Boruc in the SPL. That's extremely relevant to a discussion on who is the 
better keeper and is hardly "silly" or "schoolboy logic".

"ZB"  wrote
> Yet Boruc conceded considerably less goals than Boruc in the SPL.

Even Boruc isn't that good ;-)

"ZB"  wrote in message 
news:6a2jf2F35nv6nU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "Angof"  wrote in message 
> news:5aGdnQbfh5dyT6bVnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>
>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>> news:6a1k26F35otu3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Angof"  wrote in message 
>>> news:FMSdneb-AdkFsqTVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>>
>>>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>>>>
>>>>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc 
>>>>> is the better overall keeper
>>>>
>>>> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.
>>>
>>> Rangers supposedly had a better defence than Celtic but Boruc conceded 6 
>>> less goals in the SPL (they both missed a few games through injury).
>>>
>>
>> That's schoolboy logic.  Neither McGregor or Boruc are the Rangers and 
>> Celtic's defence and it's silly to judge in that way.


>
> Are you not even able to have a simple discussion without making personal 
> comments FFS?

What personal comments?

>
> From what I have seen of both, Boruc is a far better keeper than McGregor. 
> Better shot stopper, better on cross balls, more commanding, better 
> organiser of his defence. And the statistics back it up.

What stats?

>
> Everyone has been going on about what a great defence Rangers have and how 
> poor Celtic's defence is. Yet Boruc conceded considerably  less goals than 
> Boruc in the SPL. That's extremely relevant to a discussion on who is the 
> better keeper and is hardly "silly" or "schoolboy logic".

If you wanted to define schoolboy logic, this would be a classic example.  I 
could understand it if you were talking of the number of goals they were at 
fault for.

I'm surprised kris Boyd never made your team if stats are so important in 
your assessment.

"Angof"  wrote in message 
news:8cWdneUQt5Xk8KHVnZ2dnUVZ8qydnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "ZB"  wrote in message 
> news:6a2jf2F35nv6nU1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "Angof"  wrote in message 
>> news:5aGdnQbfh5dyT6bVnZ2dnUVZ8t3inZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>
>>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>>> news:6a1k26F35otu3U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Angof"  wrote in message 
>>>> news:FMSdneb-AdkFsqTVnZ2dnUVZ8tninZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>>>>
>>>>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>>>>> news:69raprF347l42U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> Let's go for 4-4-2, if WS doesnt mind too much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> GK: Boruc - McGregor has ben pretty consistent this season, but Boruc 
>>>>>> is the better overall keeper
>>>>>
>>>>> Are you serious?  If it's team of this year then McGregor walks it.
>>>>
>>>> Rangers supposedly had a better defence than Celtic but Boruc conceded 
>>>> 6 less goals in the SPL (they both missed a few games through injury).
>>>>
>>>
>>> That's schoolboy logic.  Neither McGregor or Boruc are the Rangers and 
>>> Celtic's defence and it's silly to judge in that way.
>
>
>>
>> Are you not even able to have a simple discussion without making personal 
>> comments FFS?
>
> What personal comments?

Why are stats "silly" and "schoolboy logic"? They are not the be all and end 
all but they are part of an overall picture. Why not simply disagree with 
the point of view, it's not that hard is it?

>> From what I have seen of both, Boruc is a far better keeper than 
>> McGregor. Better shot stopper, better on cross balls, more commanding, 
>> better organiser of his defence. And the statistics back it up.
>
> What stats?

i.e. the talk has been about Rangers having a great defence and Celtic a 
poor defence. Yet despite having supposedly poorer defenders in front of 
him, Boruc has conceded less goals than McGregor. I would have thought that 
was a relevant statistic when discussing who is the better keeper.

>> Everyone has been going on about what a great defence Rangers have and 
>> how poor Celtic's defence is. Yet Boruc conceded considerably  less goals 
>> than Boruc in the SPL. That's extremely relevant to a discussion on who 
>> is the better keeper and is hardly "silly" or "schoolboy logic".
>
> If you wanted to define schoolboy logic, this would be a classic example. 
> I could understand it if you were talking of the number of goals they were 
> at fault for.

Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with regards 
to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be more 
relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this season? 
I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). I am sure 
others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.

> I'm surprised kris Boyd never made your team if stats are so important in 
> your assessment.

They are a measure, not the only measure, but they are relevant. Do you 
think stats are irrelevant?

"ZB"  wrote in message 
news:6a9k77F35llh9U1@mid.individual.net...
>
>>
> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with regards 
> to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be more 
> relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this 
> season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). 
> I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.

At least one in Stuttgart, can't think of any others off hand either.

>
>> I'm surprised kris Boyd never made your team if stats are so important in 
>> your assessment.
>
> They are a measure, not the only measure, but they are relevant. Do you 
> think stats are irrelevant?

In the case of a goalkeeper conceding six goals more over a season over a 
season I do, unless they can be shown to be his fault.  Many considered 
Gordon as the best keeper in Scotland when he was here but he certainly 
didn't have the best record as far as conceding goals goes.

Going back to the original point. I still say AM should be in.  You asked 
for the OF TOTY not the OF best IX...to me there's a difference.  I do 
accept that Boruc would get in the latter as you'd still have to rate him 
higher because he's done it over a number of seasons, and I'm wary of rating 
any player on one great year, but I think this has been McGregor's season. 
Didn't he get nominated for POTY?

"Angof"  wrote in message 
news:nLWdnUZrj6loN6LVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "ZB"  wrote in message 
> news:6a9k77F35llh9U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>>
>> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with 
>> regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be 
>> more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this 
>> season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). 
>> I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.
>
> At least one in Stuttgart, can't think of any others off hand either.

That was Hedman.

ZB wrote:
> 
> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with regards 
> to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be more 
> relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this season? 
> I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). I am sure 
> others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.
> 

There was another in that same game if you mean the 3-2 defeat.

Stewart

"Stewart Smith"  wrote in message 
news:g1oeh9$3d8$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> ZB wrote:
>>
>> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with 
>> regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be 
>> more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this 
>> season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). 
>> I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.
>>
>
> There was another in that same game if you mean the 3-2 defeat.
>
> Stewart

Possibly.

"ZB" wrote:
>
> From what I have seen of both, Boruc is a far better keeper than McGregor. 
> Better shot stopper, better on cross balls, more commanding, better 
> organiser of his defence. And the statistics back it up.

Boruc is the better keeper for me too, this year and any year. McGregor has 
played well but Rangers defensive style of football should helps him. In 
saying that Rangers are an inferior team to Celtic overall, since we won the 
league, so that doesn't help McShagger. The difference in clean sheets in 
the SPL would appear to be marginal though: Boruc (15) has more clean sheets 
than McGregor (14).

"Paddy"  wrote in message 
news:e6O%j.46398$_c7.34781@newsfe16.ams2...
>
> "Angof"  wrote in message 
> news:nLWdnUZrj6loN6LVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>>
>> "ZB"  wrote in message 
>> news:6a9k77F35llh9U1@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>>
>>> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with 
>>> regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be 
>>> more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for 
>>> this season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs 
>>> away). I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off 
>>> hand.
>>
>> At least one in Stuttgart, can't think of any others off hand either.
>
> That was Hedman.

 I think he means McGregor.

"Angof"  wrote in message 
news:nLWdnUZrj6loN6LVnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@posted.plusnet...
>
> "ZB"  wrote in message 
> news:6a9k77F35llh9U1@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>>
>> Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with 
>> regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be 
>> more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this 
>> season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). 
>> I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.
>
> At least one in Stuttgart, can't think of any others off hand either.
>
>>
>>> I'm surprised kris Boyd never made your team if stats are so important 
>>> in your assessment.
>>
>> They are a measure, not the only measure, but they are relevant. Do you 
>> think stats are irrelevant?
>
> In the case of a goalkeeper conceding six goals more over a season over a 
> season I do, unless they can be shown to be his fault.  Many considered 
> Gordon as the best keeper in Scotland when he was here but he certainly 
> didn't have the best record as far as conceding goals goes.
>
> Going back to the original point. I still say AM should be in.  You asked 
> for the OF TOTY not the OF best IX...to me there's a difference.

Agreed. I was talking about this season, not overall.

>   I do accept that Boruc would get in the latter as you'd still have to 
> rate him higher because he's done it over a number of seasons, and I'm 
> wary of rating any player on one great year, but I think this has been 
> McGregor's season. Didn't he get nominated for POTY?

I think he got nominated for one of the POTY awards, yes.

In article <yeCdnXtIIqR0TaLVnZ2dnUVZ8vGdnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
 "Angof"  wrote:

> "Stewart Smith"  wrote in message 
> news:g1oeh9$3d8$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
> > > ZB wrote:
> >
> > > Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with 
> > > regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would be 
> > > more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for this 
> > > season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs away). 
> > > I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off hand.
> >
> > There was another in that same game if you mean the 3-2 defeat.
> >
> > Stewart
> 
> Possibly. 

No possibly about it. Boruc threw 2 goals in against Hibs that day, and 
looked a right plonker in the process. FWIW, I think he's generally an 
excellent keeper who's ego gets in his way far too often. A tad 
eccentric (which of course to opposition fans = arsehole), allied to the 
over-inflated ego, plus being a solid shot-stopper with the ability to 
raise his game for the big occasion (both internationally and CL), make 
him a flawed but formidable character. 

In terms of overall ability, I think he has the edge over McGregor, but 
not by much. McGregor's turned out to be a pretty excellent keeper, and 
I certainly wouldn't be complaining if we had him. Nor would I have 
complained if he'd got joint POTY along with Cuellar. Both have had 
great season's. I think the fact that McGeady won instead has more to do 
with the timing of the voting, and that attacking players are generally 
favoured in these kind of pat-on-the-back awards. However, McGeady's not 
been too bad either, tbh. Still think he needs to improve to be anywhere 
near the finished article (i.e. score more goals - a lot more goals), 
but he is getting better.

Sorry for rambling.


Casper

"Casper"  wrote in message
news:no-one-822B64.18041631052008@news.individual.net...
> In article <yeCdnXtIIqR0TaLVnZ2dnUVZ8vGdnZ2d@posted.plusnet>,
> "Angof"  wrote:
>
>> "Stewart Smith"  wrote in message
>> news:g1oeh9$3d8$1@scotsman.ed.ac.uk...
>> > > ZB wrote:
>> >
>> > > Why don't you define "schoolboy logic". You make a good point with
>> > > regards to discussing the number of goals they are at fault for would 
>> > > be
>> > > more relevant. How many goals do you think McGregor was at fault for 
>> > > this
>> > > season? I can think of Boruc being at fault for one at least (Hibs 
>> > > away).
>> > > I am sure others can point out more, but I can't think of any off 
>> > > hand.
>> >
>> > There was another in that same game if you mean the 3-2 defeat.
>> >
>> > Stewart
>>
>> Possibly.
>
> No possibly about it. Boruc threw 2 goals in against Hibs that day, and
> looked a right plonker in the process. FWIW, I think he's generally an
> excellent keeper who's ego gets in his way far too often. A tad
> eccentric (which of course to opposition fans = arsehole), allied to the
> over-inflated ego, plus being a solid shot-stopper with the ability to
> raise his game for the big occasion (both internationally and CL), make
> him a flawed but formidable character.
>
> In terms of overall ability, I think he has the edge over McGregor, but
> not by much. McGregor's turned out to be a pretty excellent keeper, and
> I certainly wouldn't be complaining if we had him. Nor would I have
> complained if he'd got joint POTY along with Cuellar. Both have had
> great season's. I think the fact that McGeady won instead has more to do
> with the timing of the voting, and that attacking players are generally
> favoured in these kind of pat-on-the-back awards. However, McGeady's not
> been too bad either, tbh. Still think he needs to improve to be anywhere
> near the finished article (i.e. score more goals - a lot more goals),
> but he is getting better.
>
> Sorry for rambling.
>
>
> Casper

Good post Casper and please don't apologise friendly ghost. There is an 
insufficient amount of rambling of this type in the ng's. We want more 
rambling, that's what I say. If we didn't have this type of rambling we 
would be left with Andy Morrison, perish the thought... ;)