Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm

In article <480de180$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, liam@mail.co.uk 
says...
> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...

The SPL are going to throw the league away?

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm 

Totally sensible decision in my eyes.

"Jim Mason" wrote
> In article liam says...
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> The SPL are going to throw the league away?

Not if they can help it... ;)

>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> Totally sensible decision in my eyes.

I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good. 
Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for 
themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over 
by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...

Nice to know that we're not paranoid enough !

Well done the S.F.A for making it easier for Rangers to scrape the title, 
Don't get me wrong this is totally the correct decision but
it was also the correct decision when we were in Seville and we got SFA !

Give us a level playing field and we'll not complain, but yet again the 
establishment sides with the establishment team !


"liam"  wrote in message 
news:480de6c3$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "Jim Mason" wrote
>> In article liam says...
>>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>
>> The SPL are going to throw the league away?
>
> Not if they can help it... ;)
>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>>
>> Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
>
> I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good. 
> Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for 
> themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over 
> by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...
>

In article <480de6c3$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, liam@mail.co.uk 
says...
> "Jim Mason" wrote
> > In article liam says...
> >> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
> >
> > The SPL are going to throw the league away?
> 
> Not if they can help it... ;)
> 
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
> >
> > Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
> 
> I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good. 
> Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for 
> themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over 
> by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch... 

Cancelling the Gretna game was in my mind a correct decision as well - 
Celtic also had the right to request the same re their Euro fixtures. 
Agreed it didn't do Rangers any good but why should that be of any 
relevance now? There is a fixture backlog caused partly by Rangers 
excellent progress in the UEFA cup, partly because the death of Phil 
O'Donnel and partly because of the weather and poor pitch conditions. 
Surely the bigger picture has been sensibly looked at? 

I really cannot see why any rational person would object to the extension. 
What has any club got to gain by objecting to the extension?

The word `integrity` doesn't quite come over as a reason - especially from 
the people using it.

Finally I am sure St Mirren can be compensated for any monies incurred in 
rearranging a holiday.

Jim

In article <480de7bf$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, 
bitemaboz@fud.co.uk says...
 
> "liam"  wrote in message 
> news:480de6c3$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> > "Jim Mason" wrote
> >> In article liam says...
> >>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
> >>
> >> The SPL are going to throw the league away?
> >
> > Not if they can help it... ;)
> >
> >>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
> >>
> >> Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
> >
> > I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. 

> Nice to know that we're not paranoid enough !
> 
> Well done the S.F.A for making it easier for Rangers to scrape the title, 
> Don't get me wrong this is totally the correct decision but
> it was also the correct decision when we were in Seville and we got SFA !

Did Celtic request an extension to the season? Was there a fixture backlog?

> Give us a level playing field and we'll not complain, but yet again the 
> establishment sides with the establishment team !

Don't make me laugh

"Jimbo" wrote:
>
> "liam"  wrote in message
>
> news:480de6c3$1_3@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
>
>
> > "Jim Mason" wrote
> >> In article liam says...
> >>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> >> The SPL are going to throw the league away?
>
> > Not if they can help it... ;)
>
> >>>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> >> Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
>
> > I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good.
> > Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for
> > themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over
> > by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...
>
> Nice to know that we're not paranoid enough !

Moi? Paranoid? ;)

> Well done the S.F.A for making it easier for Rangers to scrape the title,
> Don't get me wrong this is totally the correct decision but
> it was also the correct decision when we were in Seville and we got SFA !
>
> Give us a level playing field and we'll not complain, but yet again the
> establishment sides with the establishment team !

Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
competition on the way to Seville...

Jim Mason wrote:
> l...@mail.co.uk says...
> > "Jim Mason" wrote
> > > In article liam says...
> > >> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> > > The SPL are going to throw the league away?
>
> > Not if they can help it... ;)
>
> > >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> > > Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
>
> > I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good.
> > Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for
> > themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over
> > by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...
>
> Cancelling the Gretna game was in my mind a correct decision as well -
> Celtic also had the right to request the same re their Euro fixtures.
> Agreed it didn't do Rangers any good but why should that be of any
> relevance now? There is a fixture backlog caused partly by Rangers
> excellent progress in the UEFA cup, partly because the death of Phil
> O'Donnel and partly because of the weather and poor pitch conditions.
> Surely the bigger picture has been sensibly looked at?
>
> I really cannot see why any rational person would object to the extension.
> What has any club got to gain by objecting to the extension?
>
> The word `integrity` doesn't quite come over as a reason - especially from
> the people using it.
>
> Finally I am sure St Mirren can be compensated for any monies incurred in
> rearranging a holiday.

I think your St Mirren point is valid but I don't see any compensation
coming from Rangers or the SPL, since afaiaa St Mirren weren't
compensated when the game was cancelled for the Scotland-Italy
fixture. I think the integrity question is very much one of
perception. I accept that this is an unusual set of circumstances but
also this has never been done before. But you've got to wonder if
giving the Rangers lads a rest helps them since it didn't against
Lyon. I suppose the rest they got before the last but one Old Firm
game, when the players were pulled from International duty might have
helped them though... ;)

In article <b59aceed-6e60-432d-8572-8dc3b485a4b2
@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, Liam.Shaw.glasgow@googlemail.com says...
 
> Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> competition on the way to Seville...

WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on that 
one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.

Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board 
decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date without 
the outstanding fixtures being played?

In article <1af4a8dc-c65b-47e2-949a-
ce885dbd568a@e39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, 
Liam.Shaw.glasgow@googlemail.com says...

> game, when the players were pulled from International duty might have
> helped them though... ;)

IIRC Celtic were at exactly the same `game`. Scott McDonald ring any bells?

Jim Mason wrote:
> Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> > Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> > but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> > extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> > probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> > going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> > competition on the way to Seville...
>
> WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on that
> one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.
>
> Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board
> decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date without
> the outstanding fixtures being played?

This is Lawwell's comment, I tend to agree with it, since it's a
question of how things are perceived. Celtic and Rangers are still in
a title race and typically there is a last day of the season when all
fixtures have to be played by. That's the standard approach. This will
obviously make it tough for Rangers since they have a fixture backlog,
partly due to their own causing and partly due to the reasons you
outline. But if the SPL move the last day of the season, to help
Rangers in their endevours to win a European trophy, they will also
help them in their endevours to win the SPL. This will be perceived by
many, not completely unreasonable Celtic fans, as pro-Rangers bias. I
don't really buy into the bias argument, since the SPL were between a
rock and a hard place on this one and we should really be helping the
Scottish team win the UEFA cup, irrespective of how we feel about
their supporters.. ;) Nevertheless the "perception" by some is that
the integrity of the SPL championship has been reduced since we are
making it easier for Rangers. Hope this helps you in your endevours to
fathom the mind of the Celtic minded, Mr Mason. :¬)

Jim Mason wrote:
> Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> > game, when the players were pulled from International duty might have
> > helped them though... ;)
>
> IIRC Celtic were at exactly the same `game`. Scott McDonald ring any bells?

At least McDonald got subbed have way throw the previous game and also
didn't start the Old Firm game consistent with the not 100% fit
hypothesis. But I take your point. Not sure you could say the same
thing about Ferguson, McGregor, McCulloch and Daily.

In article <1aafdd25-70d8-4817-a58c-6b1fa65c03cf@
8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Liam.Shaw.glasgow@googlemail.com says...
> Jim Mason wrote:
> > Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
> >
> > > Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> > > but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> > > extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> > > probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> > > going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> > > competition on the way to Seville...
> >
> > WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on that
> > one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.
> >
> > Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board
> > decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date without
> > the outstanding fixtures being played?
> 
> This is Lawwell's comment, I tend to agree with it, since it's a
> question of how things are perceived. Celtic and Rangers are still in
> a title race and typically there is a last day of the season when all
> fixtures have to be played by. That's the standard approach. This will
> obviously make it tough for Rangers since they have a fixture backlog,
> partly due to their own causing and partly due to the reasons you
> outline. But if the SPL move the last day of the season, to help
> Rangers in their endevours to win a European trophy, they will also
> help them in their endevours to win the SPL. This will be perceived by
> many, not completely unreasonable Celtic fans, as pro-Rangers bias. I
> don't really buy into the bias argument, since the SPL were between a
> rock and a hard place on this one and we should really be helping the
> Scottish team win the UEFA cup, irrespective of how we feel about
> their supporters.. ;) Nevertheless the "perception" by some is that
> the integrity of the SPL championship has been reduced since we are
> making it easier for Rangers. Hope this helps you in your endevours to
> fathom the mind of the Celtic minded, Mr Mason. :¬)

With all due respect Liam - if this is how the `Celtic minded` work then I 
need to re-train in psychiatry - there is clearly money to be made in 
sorting out those of infirm mind.

I have never seen such piffle in this group for a long while - and I 
include Single Fish in that!

See those games in the extension - do you think the SPL will `allow` 
Rangers to win them?

Jim

In article <67013015-bcd5-40c0-a454-
ae28eda266dd@t63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, 
Liam.Shaw.glasgow@googlemail.com says...
> Jim Mason wrote:
> > Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
> >
> > > game, when the players were pulled from International duty might have
> > > helped them though... ;)
> >
> > IIRC Celtic were at exactly the same `game`. Scott McDonald ring any bells?
> 
> At least McDonald got subbed have way throw the previous game and also
> didn't start the Old Firm game consistent with the not 100% fit
> hypothesis. But I take your point.

Glad you accept Celtic were also at it.

"liam"  wrote
> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm

Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was 
postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed for 
the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree that was 
the correct decision.

Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare for 
the Lyon game. I think the lesson to be learned from this season is that to 
cancel a "small" game in order to prepare for a "bigger" game is wrong and 
not helpful in the long run. Correct if I'm wrong but both Rangers and 
Scotland lost these bigger games that they were supposedly better prepared 
for?

I don't think other clubs should be complaining about the extension to the 
season as I'm sure if they were in the same boat they'd want an extension, 
and as I say Rangers were only at fault for 1 of the 3 games postponed that 
has contributed to this.

"Stevio" wrote
> "liam" wrote
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was 
> postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed for 
> the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree that was 
> the correct decision.
>
> Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare for 
> the Lyon game. I think the lesson to be learned from this season is that 
> to cancel a "small" game in order to prepare for a "bigger" game is wrong 
> and not helpful in the long run. Correct if I'm wrong but both Rangers and 
> Scotland lost these bigger games that they were supposedly better prepared 
> for?
>
> I don't think other clubs should be complaining about the extension to the 
> season as I'm sure if they were in the same boat they'd want an extension, 
> and as I say Rangers were only at fault for 1 of the 3 games postponed 
> that has contributed to this.

It's partly Rangers fault due to the Gretna game cancelation and also I 
think people have to accept that if you are in a lot of competitions you 
have to play alot of games. But it was a decent jesture for Rangers to allow 
the last Old Firm game to be cancelled in memory of Phil so I don't really 
mind the extension Stevio. Would be interesting to know if Rangers have 
asked for this extension though? Doubt if we'll ever know if the SPL would 
have done the same for Celtic.

In article <NtmPj.94704$5i5.1489@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, redeagle@freeuk.com 
says...
> "liam"  wrote
> > Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
> 
> Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was 
> postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed for 
> the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree that was 
> the correct decision.

I totally agree.
> 
> Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare for 
> the Lyon game. 

I do not think they are at fault in any way - the mechanism is in place for 
such a request to be made and fulfilled. IMHO only the narrow-minded would 
object to such a request. Progression in Europe can only result in a 
benefit to all SPL clubs with any ambition. The fact Rangers lost the Euro 
tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.

"Jim Mason" wrote
>
>See those games in the extension - do you think the SPL will `allow`
>Rangers to win them?
>

Well that was the next point I was going to come to... ;)

"Jim Mason" wrote
> Liam.Shaw.glasgow@googlemail.com says...
>> Jim Mason wrote:
>> > Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>> >
>> > > game, when the players were pulled from International duty might have
>> > > helped them though... ;)
>> >
>> > IIRC Celtic were at exactly the same `game`. Scott McDonald ring any 
>> > bells?
>>
>> At least McDonald got subbed have way throw the previous game and also
>> didn't start the Old Firm game consistent with the not 100% fit
>> hypothesis. But I take your point.
>
> Glad you accept Celtic were also at it.

Well not really Jim.

In article <480df4f9$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, liam@mail.co.uk 
says...
 
> Doubt if we'll ever know if the SPL would have done the same for Celtic. 

They will of course do exactly the same if Celtic are in the same position 
- why on earth wouldn't they?

We will know as soon as Celtic are in the same position.

FWIW the equally paranoid Mrs M says it is a `disgrace`. I had to put her 
right ;-)

Jim

"Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...


> The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.


If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have progressed to 
the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by now. 
As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture pile up. 
Funny how things work out.

If someone wants the league season end date has to be changed
Every club in the league should have a vote on it



"Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
> In article <NtmPj.94704$5i5.1489@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>, 
> redeagle@freeuk.com
> says...
>> "liam"  wrote
>> > Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>>
>> Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was
>> postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed for
>> the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree that 
>> was
>> the correct decision.
>
> I totally agree.
>>
>> Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare for
>> the Lyon game.
>
> I do not think they are at fault in any way - the mechanism is in place 
> for
> such a request to be made and fulfilled. IMHO only the narrow-minded would
> object to such a request. Progression in Europe can only result in a
> benefit to all SPL clubs with any ambition. The fact Rangers lost the Euro
> tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.

In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk 
says...
> 
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
> 
> 
> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
> 
> 
> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have progressed to 
> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by now. 
> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture pile up. 
> Funny how things work out. 

And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish football I 
would have thought?

Jim

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:25:33 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.celtic,
Jim Mason wrote.... 

> In article <NtmPj.94704$5i5.1489@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
> redeagle@freeuk.com says...
>> "liam"  wrote
>> > Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>> 
>> Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was 
>> postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed
>> for the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree
>> that was the correct decision.
> 
> I totally agree.
>> 
>> Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare
>> for the Lyon game. 
> 
> I do not think they are at fault in any way - the mechanism is in
> place for such a request to be made and fulfilled. IMHO only the
> narrow-minded would object to such a request. Progression in Europe
> can only result in a benefit to all SPL clubs with any ambition. The
> fact Rangers lost the Euro tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.

How does the SPL extending the league to accomodate Rangers (or Celtic if 
it was the other way around) benefit the rest of the SPL clubs? Surely if 
Rangers had to play 4 games in 8 days the teams they were playing would 
be hopeful of 3 points they wouldn't expect from a fit, rested Rangers 
team?

The thing i find laughable is that Gretna were forced to find a team 
within a few days of going into administration when most of the players 
and staff hadn't been paid yet Rangers will be aided in the league being 
extended. Surely teams like Gretna deserve the SPL's help more than the 
richest clubs in Scotland?

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

"Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
> In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> says...
>>
>> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>>
>>
>> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>>
>>
>> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have progressed 
>> to
>> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by 
>> now.
>> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture pile 
>> up.
>> Funny how things work out.
>
> And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish football I
> would have thought?
>
> Jim

It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be required. 
Hope I'm wrong.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:37:17 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.celtic,
Alan wrote.... 

> If someone wants the league season end date has to be changed
> Every club in the league should have a vote on it

Apparently the top 6 of the SPL (bar Rangers) voted against it. Did you 
really think the SPL was a democracy?

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

Jim Mason wrote:
> l...@mail.co.uk says...
>
> > Doubt if we'll ever know if the SPL would have done the same for Celtic.
>
> They will of course do exactly the same if Celtic are in the same position
> - why on earth wouldn't they?

We'll never find out, it's a philosophy of Science question that
Sparky Stewart and MOD Moody are always dicussing...

> We will know as soon as Celtic are in the same position.
>
> FWIW the equally paranoid Mrs M says it is a `disgrace`. I had to put her
> right ;-)

I'm probably about the most reasonable/unreasonable as you'll get on
this topic from a tim...I'd imagine your wife's view would be much
more representative Jim...those Radio Waves will be burning tonight on
the phone-ins...Ewan Cameron, Darryl Broadfoot, Keith Jackson, Gordon
Waddell et al. will be celebrating tonight like they've already won
the quad....

In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk 
says...
> 
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
> news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> > says...
> >>
> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
> >>
> >>
> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
> >>
> >>
> >> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have progressed 
> >> to
> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by 
> >> now.
> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture pile 
> >> up.
> >> Funny how things work out.
> >
> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish football I
> > would have thought?
> >
> > Jim
> 
> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be required. 

Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be 
played?

In article , 
padraigog@gmail.com says...
> On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:25:33 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.celtic,
> Jim Mason wrote.... 
> 
> > In article <NtmPj.94704$5i5.1489@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
> > redeagle@freeuk.com says...
> >> "liam"  wrote
> >> > Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
> >> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
> >> 
> >> Correct decision in my mind. It is not Rangers fault that a game was 
> >> postponed for the Scotland game. Also the Old Firm game was postponed
> >> for the tragic death of Phil O'Donnell. I think a lot of people agree
> >> that was the correct decision.
> > 
> > I totally agree.
> >> 
> >> Rangers ARE at fault for asking for a game to be postponed to prepare
> >> for the Lyon game. 
> > 
> > I do not think they are at fault in any way - the mechanism is in
> > place for such a request to be made and fulfilled. IMHO only the
> > narrow-minded would object to such a request. Progression in Europe
> > can only result in a benefit to all SPL clubs with any ambition. The
> > fact Rangers lost the Euro tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
> 
> How does the SPL extending the league to accomodate Rangers (or Celtic if 
> it was the other way around) benefit the rest of the SPL clubs? 

I see you suffer from Single Fish's interpretation problems. Care to read 
my submission again and come back to me for a more sensible and relevant 
retort?

"Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22780ab46d50a9aa9896e1@news.individual.net...
> In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> says...
>>
>> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
>> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>, 
>> > fager1@yahoo.co.uk
>> > says...
>> >>
>> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> >> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have 
>> >> progressed
>> >> to
>> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by
>> >> now.
>> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture 
>> >> pile
>> >> up.
>> >> Funny how things work out.
>> >
>> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish 
>> > football I
>> > would have thought?
>> >
>> > Jim
>>
>> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be required.
>
> Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be
> played?


I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they 
surprise me again.

In article <44idnUmNy9SLZpDVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk 
says...
> 
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
> news:MPG.22780ab46d50a9aa9896e1@news.individual.net...
> > In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> > says...
> >>
> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
> >> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>, 
> >> > fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> >> > says...
> >> >>
> >> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >> >> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have 
> >> >> progressed
> >> >> to
> >> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by
> >> >> now.
> >> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture 
> >> >> pile
> >> >> up.
> >> >> Funny how things work out.
> >> >
> >> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish 
> >> > football I
> >> > would have thought?
> >> >
> >> > Jim
> >>
> >> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be required.
> >
> > Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be
> > played?
> 
> 
> I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they 
> surprise me again. 

I hope for the benefit of Scottish football they progress and win the UEFA 
Cup. But to be honest they will have to raise their game to a level they 
have never achieved yet this season.

"Jim Mason" wrote
> padraigog@gmail.com says...
>>
>> How does the SPL extending the league to accomodate Rangers
>> benefit the rest of the SPL clubs?
>
> I see you suffer from Single Fish's interpretation problems. Care to read
> my submission again and come back to me for a more sensible and relevant
> retort?

sme raises a very important point Jim. Eddie Thompson from Dundee Utd has 
similar concerns...
http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=2892&cd=2008&cd1=4

I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up in Rangers/the SPL's faces...

In article <480e0c23$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, liam@mail.co.uk 
says...
> "Jim Mason" wrote
> > padraigog@gmail.com says...
> >>
> >> How does the SPL extending the league to accomodate Rangers
> >> benefit the rest of the SPL clubs?
> >
> > I see you suffer from Single Fish's interpretation problems. Care to read
> > my submission again and come back to me for a more sensible and relevant
> > retort?
> 
> sme raises a very important point Jim. Eddie Thompson from Dundee Utd has 
> similar concerns...
> http://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/index.asp?tm=2&nid=2892&cd=2008&cd1=4

I fail to see why in any way his comments are relevant.

> I wouldn't be surprised if this blows up in Rangers/the SPL's faces... 

What sort of scenario are you talking about Liam and in which way would it 
be `explosive`?

On 22 Apr, 15:55, Jim Mason 
wrote:

>
> I hope for the benefit of Scottish football they progress and win the UEFA
> Cup. But to be honest they will have to raise their game to a level they
> have never achieved yet this season.

I take it back you're not one of them.

On 22 Apr, 15:49, "Angof"  wrote:
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.22780ab46d50a9aa9896e1@news.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, fag...@yahoo.co.uk
> > says...
>
> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
> >> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>,
> >> > fag...@yahoo.co.uk
> >> > says...
>
> >> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >> >>news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>
> >> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>
> >> >> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have
> >> >> progressed
> >> >> to
> >> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by
> >> >> now.
> >> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture
> >> >> pile
> >> >> up.
> >> >> Funny how things work out.
>
> >> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish
> >> > football I
> >> > would have thought?
>
> >> > Jim
>
> >> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be required> > Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be
> > played?
>
> I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they
> surprise me again.

Sure you do 5o)

liam wrote:
> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm

Nice how it masks the news that Ian Brines admitted he shouldn't have 
chalked off Aberdeen's late goal on Saturday

On 22 Apr, 14:23, "liam"  wrote:
> "Jim Mason" wrote
>
> > In article liam says...
> >> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> > The SPL are going to throw the league away?
>
> Not if they can help it... ;)
>
> >>http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> > Totally sensible decision in my eyes.
>
> I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good.
> Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for
> themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over
> by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...

And, their home game with Dundee UTD was cancelled because their pitch
was unplayable

"liam"  wrote in message 
news:480de180$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm


Unsurprising cheating from Murray and 'Uncle Walter' but I do think they've 
broken new ground here.  This is the worst decision in the history of 
scottish football and wouldn't happen for any other single team in any other 
country in the world.

Doing well in all competitions isn't easy to do and Rangers have done pretty 
good.  Not many teams convert it all into trophys precisely because it's 
difficult to fight on all fronts within the time-scales of competition. 
This happens all the time and Scotland will be a laughing stock for changing 
the duration of the season for the benefit of the establishment club to help 
them achieve what others try to do by their own endevour.

Rangers have brought this on themselves.  They cancelled a game against 
Gretna, which in itself was highly irregular.  They also had to cancel one 
of their home games because of the paddy field at their midden.  They had 
games outstanding from early in the season and chose not to use free 
midweeks that they had to catch up at that point.  Twice they were taken to 
a replay, if they'd won them first time of asking then there would have been 
no problem.

For the benefit of one team, six other clubs are being asked to extend their 
season.  You'd think the players' union would have something to say about 
this, one club deciding to shorten the summer holidays of 7 (seven) clubs' 
summer holidays.  I'm sure many players have made family 
arrangements/holidays for the end of the seasonObviously that won't happen 
with the resident Rangers' apologist that currently leads that.  It's got to 
be remembered that Wishart is a man who came out in support of diving by 
Rangers' players but had nothing to say about two players who were unfairly 
penalised for rightly pointing out their cheating ways.

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:Yq6dnaGHl6jCs5PVnZ2dnUVZ8qSnnZ2d@giganews.com...
> liam wrote:
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> Nice how it masks the news that Ian Brines admitted he shouldn't have 
> chalked off Aberdeen's late goal on Saturday

Did he also mention Celtic's goal he chopped off?

"Moody Marco"  wrote in message 
news:Yq6dnaGHl6jCs5PVnZ2dnUVZ8qSnnZ2d@giganews.com...
> liam wrote:
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> Nice how it masks the news that Ian Brines admitted he shouldn't have 
> chalked off Aberdeen's late goal on Saturday

And what about Samaras's goal which was chalked off wrongly?

"Moody Marco" wrote
> liam wrote:
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
> Nice how it masks the news that Ian Brines admitted he shouldn't have 
> chalked off Aberdeen's late goal on Saturday

Sure many refereeing mistakes are made in the course of a season, even in 
the course of a game....for example, wrongly giving Aberdeen the throw-in 
that lead to the goal was another mistake....

"liam*"  wrote in message 
news:1aafdd25-70d8-4817-a58c-6b1fa65c03cf@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Jim Mason wrote:
> Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> > Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> > but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> > extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> > probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> > going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> > competition on the way to Seville...
>
> WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on that
> one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.
>
> Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board
> decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date without
> the outstanding fixtures being played?

This is Lawwell's comment, I tend to agree with it, since it's a
question of how things are perceived. Celtic and Rangers are still in
a title race and typically there is a last day of the season when all
fixtures have to be played by. That's the standard approach. This will
obviously make it tough for Rangers since they have a fixture backlog,
partly due to their own causing and partly due to the reasons you
outline. But if the SPL move the last day of the season, to help
Rangers in their endevours to win a European trophy, they will also
help them in their endevours to win the SPL. This will be perceived by
many, not completely unreasonable Celtic fans, as pro-Rangers bias. I
don't really buy into the bias argument, since the SPL were between a
rock and a hard place on this one and we should really be helping the
Scottish team win the UEFA cup, irrespective of how we feel about
their supporters.. ;) Nevertheless the "perception" by some is that
the integrity of the SPL championship has been reduced since we are
making it easier for Rangers. Hope this helps you in your endevours to
fathom the mind of the Celtic minded, Mr Mason. :¬)



I'll try to get over my shock at you agreeing with Peter Lawell and ask you 
this - if the league is extended to allow Rangers an inhuman rather than a 
merely impossible run in and give them an extra day or two's rest, doesn't 
that extra time also help Celtic and the other clubs just as much? Or do you 
need us to be totally out on our feet in order to have a chance at the 
title?

As for Ranger's fixture backlog being partly of their own causing, I count 1 
game which we asked to be postponed. The others were down to the Italy 
match, Phil Odonnel and the weather.

Had we had no call-offs due to deaths and weather the 'integrity' argument 
put forward by Lawell may have had some substance. All it really is now, 
however, is him looking out for his own interests and pretending otherwise.

"Jim Mason"  wrote in message 
news:MPG.22780ca1fea09a709896e3@news.individual.net...
> In article <44idnUmNy9SLZpDVnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@plusnet>, fager1@yahoo.co.uk
> says...
>>
>> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> news:MPG.22780ab46d50a9aa9896e1@news.individual.net...
>> > In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, 
>> > fager1@yahoo.co.uk
>> > says...
>> >>
>> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> >> news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
>> >> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>,
>> >> > fager1@yahoo.co.uk
>> >> > says...
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>> >> >> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have
>> >> >> progressed
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe 
>> >> >> by
>> >> >> now.
>> >> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture
>> >> >> pile
>> >> >> up.
>> >> >> Funny how things work out.
>> >> >
>> >> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish
>> >> > football I
>> >> > would have thought?
>> >> >
>> >> > Jim
>> >>
>> >> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be 
>> >> required.
>> >
>> > Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be
>> > played?
>>
>>
>> I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they
>> surprise me again.
>
> I hope for the benefit of Scottish football they progress and win the UEFA
> Cup. But to be honest they will have to raise their game to a level they
> have never achieved yet this season.

This century, more like.

liam wrote:
> "Moody Marco" wrote
>> liam wrote:
>>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>>
>> Nice how it masks the news that Ian Brines admitted he shouldn't have
>> chalked off Aberdeen's late goal on Saturday
>
> Sure many refereeing mistakes are made in the course of a season,
> even in the course of a game....for example, wrongly giving Aberdeen
> the throw-in that lead to the goal was another mistake....

The point is people like du the husker and others would have you believe 
Celtic get NO decisions in their favour

"FishSupper" wrote:
> "liam*" wrote:
> Jim Mason wrote:
> > Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> > > Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> > > but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> > > extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> > > probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> > > going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> > > competition on the way to Seville...
>
> > WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on that
> > one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.
>
> > Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board
> > decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date without
> > the outstanding fixtures being played?
>
> This is Lawwell's comment, I tend to agree with it, since it's a
> question of how things are perceived. Celtic and Rangers are still in
> a title race and typically there is a last day of the season when all
> fixtures have to be played by. That's the standard approach. This will
> obviously make it tough for Rangers since they have a fixture backlog,
> partly due to their own causing and partly due to the reasons you
> outline. But if the SPL move the last day of the season, to help
> Rangers in their endevours to win a European trophy, they will also
> help them in their endevours to win the SPL. This will be perceived by
> many, not completely unreasonable Celtic fans, as pro-Rangers bias. I
> don't really buy into the bias argument, since the SPL were between a
> rock and a hard place on this one and we should really be helping the
> Scottish team win the UEFA cup, irrespective of how we feel about
> their supporters.. ;) Nevertheless the "perception" by some is that
> the integrity of the SPL championship has been reduced since we are
> making it easier for Rangers. Hope this helps you in your endevours to
> fathom the mind of the Celtic minded, Mr Mason. :¬)
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I'll try to get over my shock at you agreeing with Peter Lawell and ask you
> this - if the league is extended to allow Rangers an inhuman rather than a> merely impossible run in and give them an extra day or two's rest, doesn't> that extra time also help Celtic and the other clubs just as much? Or do you
> need us to be totally out on our feet in order to have a chance at the
> title?
>
> As for Ranger's fixture backlog being partly of their own causing, I count 1
> game which we asked to be postponed. The others were down to the Italy
> match, Phil Odonnel and the weather.
>
> Had we had no call-offs due to deaths and weather the 'integrity' argument> put forward by Lawell may have had some substance. All it really is now,
> however, is him looking out for his own interests and pretending otherwiseTBH I'm all rather cool about the whole of this but find it such a
cracking bloody story since the whole of Scottish fitba has got their
knickers in a twist about it. For me it boils mainly down to a sense
of perception about the game which is a kinda postmodern symbolism
argument. If Jim Mason's wife thinks it's a disgrace then that gives
me an idea that the integrity of the game in Scotland is being called
into question on a scale not seen since Jim Farry lost Jorge Cadet's
transfer papers down the back of his sofa...this time I think it's all
perception, but that can be equally corrosive. We needed consensus.
The SPL look out of their depths.

On Lawwell's substantive points, they aren't very good on this one to
be honest. I'm unconvinced by the extra time off meaning we won't be
playing a competitive fixtures for 11 days and therefore Rangers have
an advantage. That's just a weak argument. Everyone agreed at the
start of the season that the SPL would try their best to help clubs in
Europe. Lawwell also seems pissed off by the procedure to ensure that
the league was extended. The procedural argument sounds like a
technicality and few are probably interested in that. Lawwell
essentially boxed himself into a position on this one by making an
announcement at the end of March questioning the integrity of the
competition if the league was extended. I'll come back to that point
though.

Bain has made a bit of an arse of himself over this and has been quite
snidey towards Celtic in the media. Firstly he says the SPL has done
"nothing" for Rangers. Now that is just pish. They've conditionally
extended the fuckin league to help in their UEFA Cup campaign. He was
also making snidey comments about Lawwell to the press "he's only
interested in not extending the league since there isn;t a points gap"
cheeky fucker....

Now I think it's stating the bleeding obvious that Celtic don't want
the league extended since they want the best chance to win the damn
thing. It's fair do's for Lawwell to make noises about this, just like
its fair do's for Dundee Utd and also apparently Motherwell according
to Real Radio (although Mark McGhee sounded fine about it on Clyde).
But you should remember that Rangers, and indeed the SPL, wouldn't
cancel an Old Firm game after the Celtic-Boavista Uefa semi in 2003.
But I don't really have a problem with that. The clubs should really
be looking after their own, and the supporters who pay the season
ticket money.

So to wrap up since I'm getting bored of myself now......it doesn't
matter anyway since you'll be oot o Europe on yer erses in 48
hours... :¬)

"Y.N.W.A" wrote:
> "liam" wrote:
>
> > I'm a bit more sceptical Jim. You've got to wonder if it will do any good.
> > Rangers cancelled their game against Gretna to make things easier for
> > themselves, thereby partly causing this problem, and still got turned over
> > by Lyon 3-0 on their own patch...
>
> And, their home game with Dundee UTD was cancelled because their pitch
> was unplayable

Rangers do appear to have problems with their pitch Y.N.W.A.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_cups/7181119.stm

"Mad Max"  wrote in message 
news:15afa97d-c9df-43f9-aad8-9a20cdcc6fc4@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
On 22 Apr, 15:49, "Angof"  wrote:
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.22780ab46d50a9aa9896e1@news.individual.net...
>
>
>
> > In article <-u6dne8ptOFeZJDVnZ2dnUVZ8vednZ2d@plusnet>, 
> > fag...@yahoo.co.uk
> > says...
>
> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >>news:MPG.22780879309533e19896e0@news.individual.net...
> >> > In article <O6CdnSjdDZ7FapDVnZ2dnUVZ8ternZ2d@plusnet>,
> >> > fag...@yahoo.co.uk
> >> > says...
>
> >> >> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
> >> >>news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>
> >> >> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>
> >> >> If JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have
> >> >> progressed
> >> >> to
> >> >> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe 
> >> >> by
> >> >> now.
> >> >> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture
> >> >> pile
> >> >> up.
> >> >> Funny how things work out.
>
> >> > And the subsequent extension has to be for the good of Scottish
> >> > football I
> >> > would have thought?
>
> >> > Jim
>
> >> It was the sensible decision but I have the feeling it wont be 
> >> required.
>
> > Do you think if it isn't required that the final fixtures shouldn't be
> > played?
>
> I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they
> surprise me again.

> Sure you do 5o)

What's that Einstein?

"liam*"  wrote in message 
news:fe19a797-bea1-4abd-9101-b2acc7056831@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
"FishSupper" wrote:
> "liam*" wrote:
> Jim Mason wrote:
> > Liam.Shaw.glas...@googlemail.com says...
>
> > > Doesn't look as if they've retained the integrity of the competitions
> > > but that's a question of perception. I wonder if Rangers asked for an
> > > extension? And will this help them going for the SPL, I think it
> > > probably will, which is, I assume the main competition Rangers are
> > > going for, since we heard no end of how much the UEFA cup was a diddy
> > > competition on the way to Seville...
>
> > WTF does `integrity of the competitions` mean? I am truly baffled on 
> > that
> > one and that isn't a dig at you Liam.
>
> > Surely the only way the `integrity` would be in doubt if the SPL board
> > decided that the league was to finish on the original stated date 
> > without
> > the outstanding fixtures being played?
>
> This is Lawwell's comment, I tend to agree with it, since it's a
> question of how things are perceived. Celtic and Rangers are still in
> a title race and typically there is a last day of the season when all
> fixtures have to be played by. That's the standard approach. This will
> obviously make it tough for Rangers since they have a fixture backlog,
> partly due to their own causing and partly due to the reasons you
> outline. But if the SPL move the last day of the season, to help
> Rangers in their endevours to win a European trophy, they will also
> help them in their endevours to win the SPL. This will be perceived by
> many, not completely unreasonable Celtic fans, as pro-Rangers bias. I
> don't really buy into the bias argument, since the SPL were between a
> rock and a hard place on this one and we should really be helping the
> Scottish team win the UEFA cup, irrespective of how we feel about
> their supporters.. ;) Nevertheless the "perception" by some is that
> the integrity of the SPL championship has been reduced since we are
> making it easier for Rangers. Hope this helps you in your endevours to
> fathom the mind of the Celtic minded, Mr Mason. :¬)
>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>
> I'll try to get over my shock at you agreeing with Peter Lawell and ask 
> you
> this - if the league is extended to allow Rangers an inhuman rather than a
> merely impossible run in and give them an extra day or two's rest, doesn't
> that extra time also help Celtic and the other clubs just as much? Or do 
> you
> need us to be totally out on our feet in order to have a chance at the
> title?
>
> As for Ranger's fixture backlog being partly of their own causing, I count 
> 1
> game which we asked to be postponed. The others were down to the Italy
> match, Phil Odonnel and the weather.
>
> Had we had no call-offs due to deaths and weather the 'integrity' argument
> put forward by Lawell may have had some substance. All it really is now,
> however, is him looking out for his own interests and pretending 
> otherwise.

TBH I'm all rather cool about the whole of this but find it such a
cracking bloody story since the whole of Scottish fitba has got their
knickers in a twist about it. For me it boils mainly down to a sense
of perception about the game which is a kinda postmodern symbolism
argument. If Jim Mason's wife thinks it's a disgrace then that gives
me an idea that the integrity of the game in Scotland is being called
into question on a scale not seen since Jim Farry lost Jorge Cadet's
transfer papers down the back of his sofa...this time I think it's all
perception, but that can be equally corrosive. We needed consensus.
The SPL look out of their depths.

...........................
Not to trivialise Jim Mason's wife's evaluation of the integrity of the SPL, 
but there really is no question of the integrity of the game being called 
into question. We are in a completely unique situation here, with Rangers 
getting to a euro semi after the worst winter rainfall in living memory and 
first time that games have been cancelled to help national and club teams 
compete in international competitions and then the death of Phil O'donnel. 
Everybody apart from that small minded section of the celtic support 
understands that - and they should be delighted that the 'help' given to 
Rangers means that we have only got to play four games in 8 days now if we 
reach the final - and that doesn't help us in the least. Those Celtic fans 
who are moaning about the league being extended for a full four days should 
bear in mind that one week's postponement was due to Rangers agreeing to 
cancel the New Year OF game *at Celtic's request*.
..........................

On Lawwell's substantive points, they aren't very good on this one to
be honest. I'm unconvinced by the extra time off meaning we won't be
playing a competitive fixtures for 11 days and therefore Rangers have
an advantage. That's just a weak argument. Everyone agreed at the
start of the season that the SPL would try their best to help clubs in
Europe. Lawwell also seems pissed off by the procedure to ensure that
the league was extended. The procedural argument sounds like a
technicality and few are probably interested in that. Lawwell
essentially boxed himself into a position on this one by making an
announcement at the end of March questioning the integrity of the
competition if the league was extended. I'll come back to that point
though.

Bain has made a bit of an arse of himself over this and has been quite
snidey towards Celtic in the media. Firstly he says the SPL has done
"nothing" for Rangers. Now that is just pish. They've conditionally
extended the fuckin league to help in their UEFA Cup campaign. He was
also making snidey comments about Lawwell to the press "he's only
interested in not extending the league since there isn;t a points gap"
cheeky fucker....

Now I think it's stating the bleeding obvious that Celtic don't want
the league extended since they want the best chance to win the damn
thing. It's fair do's for Lawwell to make noises about this, just like
its fair do's for Dundee Utd and also apparently Motherwell according
to Real Radio (although Mark McGhee sounded fine about it on Clyde).
But you should remember that Rangers, and indeed the SPL, wouldn't
cancel an Old Firm game after the Celtic-Boavista Uefa semi in 2003.
But I don't really have a problem with that. The clubs should really
be looking after their own, and the supporters who pay the season
ticket money.

...................

Can't disagree with that.

Lawell is at it. He's making mishief and has nothing else in mind apart from 
causing problems for Rangers.
And so he should. That's what's he paid for. If the shoe was on the other 
foot I'd be disappointed if we acted differently - although I suspect we 
would.
..................

So to wrap up since I'm getting bored of myself now......it doesn't
matter anyway since you'll be oot o Europe on yer erses in 48
hours... :¬)

.....................
Can't disagree with that either. If we'd had a full strength team, there 
would have been a real chance. Now, without Baz, McCulloch, Thommo and 
McShagger,  we're missing the core of our team. 0-1 at Ibrox. 1-0 in 
Florence.

"Jimbo"  wrote in message 
news:480de7bf$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> Nice to know that we're not paranoid enough !
>
> Well done the S.F.A for making it easier for Rangers to scrape the title, 
> Don't get me wrong this is totally the correct decision but
> it was also the correct decision when we were in Seville and we got SFA !
>
> Give us a level playing field and we'll not complain, but yet again the 
> establishment sides with the establishment team !
>


You did have help on the way to seville, you were allowed to move your game 
against Dundee forward to the wednesday a game which you won 6-2

1) The fixture list was cleared, giving Celtic a full week's preparation for 
the final in Seville

2) The final was on the Wednesday, Celtic played their final game of the 
season on the Sunday.

3) Next week we play the 2nd leg of the semi, in Italy on Thursday, and will 
face Hibs on the Sunday ~ exactly the same scenario as Celtic faced, when 
they were playing boavista, in the 2nd leg of the semi, then Rangers on the 
Sunday.

4) Celtic only left a few days before asking for the old firm game to be 
cancelled following the boavista game. It was a ludicrous request at the 
time after leaving it so late.

5) There was no adverse weather conditions in 2003 postponing so many 
fixtures, or were any games cancelled to the death of a footballer

6) Celtic did not have so many fixtures to cram into such a short space of 
time.

Johnf

"FishSupper" wrote
>
> Not to trivialise Jim Mason's wife's evaluation of the integrity of the 
> SPL, but there really is no question of the integrity of the game being 
> called into question. We are in a completely unique situation here, with 
> Rangers getting to a euro semi after the worst winter rainfall in living 
> memory and first time that games have been cancelled to help national and 
> club teams compete in international competitions and then the death of 
> Phil O'donnel. Everybody apart from that small minded section of the 
> celtic support understands that - and they should be delighted that the 
> 'help' given to Rangers means that we have only got to play four games in 
> 8 days now if we reach the final - and that doesn't help us in the least. 
> Those Celtic fans who are moaning about the league being extended for a 
> full four days should bear in mind that one week's postponement was due to 
> Rangers agreeing to cancel the New Year OF game *at Celtic's request*.

All bets are off with regards our national side. You pulled four players 
from the last Scotland game. You've already cashed those chips in. 
Additionally your pitch is crap, always seems to be, so I'd not give you one 
of the games cancelled for the weather since that's partly your fault. 
Finally, you've had the Gretna game cancelled, a completely pointless 
exercise I might add.

But on the basis of Scottish fraternity, I think it appropriate to give you 
a one game extension, in the unlikely event that you get to the Uefa cup 
final. You allowed a game to be cancelled in memory of Phil O'Donnell so 
fair play for that. The SPL are being generous giving you a two game 
extension, but that's an establishment thing I guess. ;)


> Lawell is at it. He's making mishief and has nothing else in mind apart 
> from causing problems for Rangers.
> And so he should. That's what's he paid for. If the shoe was on the other 
> foot I'd be disappointed if we acted differently - although I suspect we 
> would.

Not sure Rangers have been entirely sympathetic to Celtic's European 
challange in the past tbh. Didn't Ronald De Boer brand Celtic as moaners for 
asking for help over fixtures and European games?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/2951361.stm


> Can't disagree with that either. If we'd had a full strength team, there 
> would have been a real chance. Now, without Baz, McCulloch, Thommo and 
> McShagger,  we're missing the core of our team. 0-1 at Ibrox. 1-0 in 
> Florence.

Good luck tomorrow.

"JohnF"  wrote in message
news:KYmdnUoxo-DdvpLVnZ2dnUVZ8tKsnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Jimbo"  wrote in message 
> news:480de7bf$1_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> Nice to know that we're not paranoid enough !
>>
>> Well done the S.F.A for making it easier for Rangers to scrape the title, 
>> Don't get me wrong this is totally the correct decision but
>> it was also the correct decision when we were in Seville and we got SFA !
>>
>> Give us a level playing field and we'll not complain, but yet again the 
>> establishment sides with the establishment team !
>
> You did have help on the way to seville, you were allowed to move your 
> game against Dundee forward to the wednesday a game which you won 6-2
>
> 1) The fixture list was cleared, giving Celtic a full week's preparation 
> for the final in Seville
>
> 2) The final was on the Wednesday, Celtic played their final game of the 
> season on the Sunday.
>
> 3) Next week we play the 2nd leg of the semi, in Italy on Thursday, and 
> will face Hibs on the Sunday ~ exactly the same scenario as Celtic faced, 
> when they were playing boavista, in the 2nd leg of the semi, then Rangers 
> on the Sunday.
>
> 4) Celtic only left a few days before asking for the old firm game to be 
> cancelled following the boavista game. It was a ludicrous request at the 
> time after leaving it so late.
>
> 5) There was no adverse weather conditions in 2003 postponing so many 
> fixtures, or were any games cancelled to the death of a footballer
>
> 6) Celtic did not have so many fixtures to cram into such a short space of 
> time.

"I don't hear Manchester Utd complaining" Ronald De Boer Rangers Football 
Club April 2003

"dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
news:WFqPj.45341$_h7.8590@newsfe05.ams2...
>
> "liam"  wrote in message 
> news:480de180$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>
>
> Unsurprising cheating from Murray and 'Uncle Walter' but I do think 
> they've broken new ground here.  This is the worst decision in the history 
> of scottish football and wouldn't happen for any other single team in any 
> other country in the world.

FFS. You do realise that you are the personification of how the rest of 
Scottish football views Celtic fans?

"liam"  wrote in message 
news:480f28a1$1_4@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
> "FishSupper" wrote
>>
>> Not to trivialise Jim Mason's wife's evaluation of the integrity of the 
>> SPL, but there really is no question of the integrity of the game being 
>> called into question. We are in a completely unique situation here, with 
>> Rangers getting to a euro semi after the worst winter rainfall in living 
>> memory and first time that games have been cancelled to help national and 
>> club teams compete in international competitions and then the death of 
>> Phil O'donnel. Everybody apart from that small minded section of the 
>> celtic support understands that - and they should be delighted that the 
>> 'help' given to Rangers means that we have only got to play four games in 
>> 8 days now if we reach the final - and that doesn't help us in the least. 
>> Those Celtic fans who are moaning about the league being extended for a 
>> full four days should bear in mind that one week's postponement was due 
>> to Rangers agreeing to cancel the New Year OF game *at Celtic's request*.
>
> All bets are off with regards our national side. You pulled four players 
> from the last Scotland game. You've already cashed those chips in.

One was injured and one was going to be sitting on the bench - so really 
only two. And the rest of the team who aren't Scotland players - do they get 
to have an extension and just Baz, McCulloch should be forced to play?


> Additionally your pitch is crap, always seems to be, so I'd not give you 
> one of the games cancelled for the weather since that's partly your fault.

I don't know where you live but trust me when I say that on that weekend 
there were huge areas of the west of scotland that were under water - no 
pitch would have withstood that downpour.

> Finally, you've had the Gretna game cancelled, a completely pointless 
> exercise I might add.

Fair enough. So that's ONE game delay that we are responsible for.

> But on the basis of Scottish fraternity, I think it appropriate to give 
> you a one game extension, in the unlikely event that you get to the Uefa 
> cup final. You allowed a game to be cancelled in memory of Phil O'Donnell 
> so fair play for that. The SPL are being generous giving you a two game 
> extension, but that's an establishment thing I guess. ;)

smiley noted but what exactly is a two game extension? Do we have to play 
two more games? Or is it that we have to play two more games in four days?

>
>> Lawell is at it. He's making mishief and has nothing else in mind apart 
>> from causing problems for Rangers.
>> And so he should. That's what's he paid for. If the shoe was on the other 
>> foot I'd be disappointed if we acted differently - although I suspect we 
>> would.
>
> Not sure Rangers have been entirely sympathetic to Celtic's European 
> challange in the past tbh. Didn't Ronald De Boer brand Celtic as moaners 
> for asking for help over fixtures and European games?
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/2951361.stm

RdB was actually just a player, liam. He wasn't at any time Chief Executive 
or a spokesman for the club. Let's not start trading quotes from players 
when we're discussing the actions of the club management.

>
>> Can't disagree with that either. If we'd had a full strength team, there 
>> would have been a real chance. Now, without Baz, McCulloch, Thommo and 
>> McShagger,  we're missing the core of our team. 0-1 at Ibrox. 1-0 in 
>> Florence.
>
> Good luck tomorrow.

Thanks - although I don't imagine you'll be rending your garb if we get beat 
;)

"FishSupper"  wrote in message 
news:mZmdnRisEO8koJLVnZ2dnUVZ8sijnZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "dü the hüsker"  wrote in message 
> news:WFqPj.45341$_h7.8590@newsfe05.ams2...
>>
>> "liam"  wrote in message 
>> news:480de180$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>>> Man they must really be scared they'll throw the league away...
>>>
>>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/scot_prem/7360790.stm
>>
>>
>> Unsurprising cheating from Murray and 'Uncle Walter' but I do think 
>> they've broken new ground here.  This is the worst decision in the 
>> history of scottish football and wouldn't happen for any other single 
>> team in any other country in the world.
>
> FFS. You do realise that you are the personification of how the rest of 
> Scottish football views Celtic fans?

Thank you very much.

Are you into this white, protestant supremacy thingy?  If so, then 
congratulations, you are the personification of how the rest of Scottish 
football views Rangers fans?

On 23 Apr, 12:53, "JohnF"  wrote:

>
> 6) Celtic did not have so many fixtures to cram into such a short space of
> time.
>
> Johnf

yip, becasue they had been Knocked out of everything.

Lets just win and the next time the greatest Hearse chaser's ask for
anything
lets just say No.

On 23 Apr, 13:16, "liam"  wrote:

> > Rangers agreeing to cancel the New Year OF game *at Celtic's request* because they ahd no Team.
>

> All bets are off with regards our national side. You pulled four players
> from the last Scotland game.

yes that friendly, remind me about mcdonald being pulled from a
qualifier that same day now he cant extend the season because he has
to play in a qualifier.

you couldna make it up

On 23 Apr, 11:01, "Angof"  wrote:

> > I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope they
> > surprise me again.
> > Sure you do 5o)
>
> What's that Einstein?

Ok Angof, deep down you know we will, but to quieten the rabid ones
you would revert back to this post if you had too.

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:48:48 GMT and in uk.sport.football.clubs.celtic,
Jim Mason wrote.... 

>> > I do not think they are at fault in any way - the mechanism is in
>> > place for such a request to be made and fulfilled. IMHO only the
>> > narrow-minded would object to such a request. Progression in Europe
>> > can only result in a benefit to all SPL clubs with any ambition.
>> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>> 
>> How does the SPL extending the league to accomodate Rangers (or
>> Celtic if it was the other way around) benefit the rest of the SPL
>> clubs? 
> 
> I see you suffer from Single Fish's interpretation problems. Care to
> read my submission again and come back to me for a more sensible and
> relevant retort?

"Progression in Europe can only result in a benefit to all SPL clubs with 
any ambition."

I would imagine they all have ambition but outside of the Old Firm there is 
only one other SPL club involved in Europe next year. How does extending 
the league in the hope it may help progression in Europe for Rangers 
benefit the other 9 clubs? How will it help Gretna?

-- 
sme
The obscure we see eventually.  The completely obvious, it seems, takes 
longer.  ~Edward R. Murrow

"Mad Max"  wrote in message 
news:f299620c-5768-4b7d-8bb7-bb9c2415709d@f63g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> On 23 Apr, 11:01, "Angof"  wrote:
>
>> > I mean I don't fancy Rangers getting past Fiorentina...can only hope 
>> > they
>> > surprise me again.
>> > Sure you do 5o)
>>
>> What's that Einstein?
>
> Ok Angof, deep down you know we will, but to quieten the rabid ones
> you would revert back to this post if you had too.
>

No,  deep down I know the Italians are favorites to beat us...then again so 
were the Greeks, Germans and Portuguese.

On Apr 22, 3:33 pm, "Angof"  wrote:
> "Jim Mason"  wrote in message
>
> news:MPG.227805bad1085d59896de@news.individual.net...
>
> > The fact Rangers lost the Euro  tie 3-0 is totally irrelevant.
>
> If  JCD hadn't missed that sitter at 0-1 we would likely have progressed to
> the last 16 of the CL and would (almost certainly) be out of Europe by now> As it worked out that defeat has partly led to the current fixture pile up> Funny how things work out.

No it's not.

On 24 Apr, 14:37, "Angof"  wrote:

> > Ok Angof, deep down you know we will, but to quieten the rabid ones
> > you would revert back to this post if you had too.
>
> No,  deep down I know the Italians are favorites to beat us...then again so
> were the Greeks, Germans and Portuguese.

So how you thinking now :-)

"Chuckles McGuigan"  wrote in message 
news:a5b1979d-6a34-495b-bed1-bfb3e983438b@e53g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On 24 Apr, 14:37, "Angof"  wrote:

> > Ok Angof, deep down you know we will, but to quieten the rabid ones
> > you would revert back to this post if you had too.
>
> No, deep down I know the Italians are favorites to beat us...then again so
> were the Greeks, Germans and Portuguese.

> So how you thinking now :-)

A little more confident if anything.  With having such a weak side out last 
night I was a bit worried it might be similar to 1961 and the tie all but 
over after the first leg . We have played better away from home as well in 
this situation, so a it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could 
sneak through.  They are still strong favorites though.

On 25 Apr, 11:18, "Angof"  wrote:

>
> A little more confident if anything.  With having such a weak side out last
> night I was a bit worried it might be similar to 1961 and the tie all but
> over after the first leg . We have played better away from home as well in> this situation, so a it's not beyond the realms of possibility that we could
> sneak through.  They are still strong favo