A FORMER MI5 chief today accused the Government of exploiting fears of 
terrorism to pass draconian laws as fresh allegations emerged of Britain's 
complicity in torture.
Dame Stella Rimington declared that ministers were playing into the hands of 
terrorists by curbing civil liberties. In an interview with a Spanish 
newspaper published today, Dame Stella said that the Government was 
"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil 
liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear 
and under a police state".

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23644654-details/Ex-MI5+chief:+Ministers+scare+public+to+pass+terrorism+laws/article.do

Lee  posted
>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>and under a police state".

Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of 
terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his 
objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye 
English bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish 
independence"?

-- 
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

"Big Les Wade"  wrote in message 
news:glNCQcEK2qmJFwIn@satan.hell...
> Lee  posted
>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>>and under a police state".
>
> Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of 
> terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his 
> objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye English 
> bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish independence"?

Since 1921 asymmetrical warfare has come a long way, born in ww2 special ops 
and honed in places like Vietnam, Indo China, Afghanistan and Angola the 
average revolutionary is not a bog Irish peasant but rather uses 
sophisticated and cost effective methods to subvert the target countries 
economy, legal system, political infrastructure and any other weak point 
that will provide a desired result.

Reducing the populations morale by manipulating it's naive, greedy and 
unintelligent leadership into turning the place into a police state is 
probably far more damaging than blowing up a train full of people.

Lee  posted
>"Big Les Wade"  wrote in message
>news:glNCQcEK2qmJFwIn@satan.hell...
>> Lee  posted
>>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
>>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
>>>and under a police state".
>>
>> Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
>> terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
>> objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye English
>> bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish independence"?
>
>Since 1921 asymmetrical warfare has come a long way, born in ww2 special ops
>and honed in places like Vietnam, Indo China, Afghanistan and Angola the
>average revolutionary is not a bog Irish peasant but rather uses
>sophisticated and cost effective methods to subvert the target countries
>economy, legal system, political infrastructure and any other weak point
>that will provide a desired result.

Oh, I agree that the technical methods used by terrorists have 
developed, but that's irrelevant. Rimington is discussing their 
*objects*. Why would an Irish nationalist, or for that matter an Islamic 
Jihadist, want England to become a police state?

>Reducing the populations morale by manipulating it's naive, greedy and
>unintelligent leadership into turning the place into a police state is
>probably far more damaging than blowing up a train full of people.

But the ultimate aim of terrorism is not to do damage; that's only the 
means they have adopted to achieve their real end.

-- 
Les
If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being searched,
they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

"Big Les Wade"  wrote in message 
news:xBSGpbK0GtmJFw4o@satan.hell...
> Lee  posted
>>"Big Les Wade"  wrote in message
>>news:glNCQcEK2qmJFwIn@satan.hell...
>>> Lee  posted
>>>>Dame Stella said that the Government was
>>>>"frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict 
>>>>civil
>>>>liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in 
>>>>fear
>>>>and under a police state".
>>>
>>> Is making us live under a police state really one of the objects of
>>> terrorism? If you'd asked (say) a member of the IRA in 1921 what his
>>> objects were, would he have replied (i) "Sure and it's ter make ye 
>>> English
>>> bastards live in a polis state begorrah", or (ii) "Irish independence"?
>>
>>Since 1921 asymmetrical warfare has come a long way, born in ww2 special 
>>ops
>>and honed in places like Vietnam, Indo China, Afghanistan and Angola the
>>average revolutionary is not a bog Irish peasant but rather uses
>>sophisticated and cost effective methods to subvert the target countries
>>economy, legal system, political infrastructure and any other weak point
>>that will provide a desired result.
>
> Oh, I agree that the technical methods used by terrorists have developed, 
> but that's irrelevant. Rimington is discussing their *objects*. Why would 
> an Irish nationalist, or for that matter an Islamic Jihadist, want England 
> to become a police state?

Consider any kind of warfare from stone-age clans yelling abuse at each 
other prior to a fight  to medieval armies firing rotting cattle or even 
prisoners into a besieged cities with a trebuchet or the bombing of Dresden 
in which no arms factories were hurt. It is all good for moral, in that it 
lowers it.

Living in a police state is also bad for morale.

So how does low moral affect a modern industrial democratic country - well 
we have a Faustian Prime Minister who will do anything for more money a bloc 
of extermly rich Arabian countries run by religious zeolots who wish to 
spread the faith and the British public that may ask awkward questions about 
any deals that are struck of the sharia for cash variety.

We already have the first instalment of sharia I believe and many cities 
with a mosque everywhere that you look.


>>Reducing the populations morale by manipulating it's naive, greedy and
>>unintelligent leadership into turning the place into a police state is
>>probably far more damaging than blowing up a train full of people.
>
> But the ultimate aim of terrorism is not to do damage; that's only the 
> means they have adopted to achieve their real end.
>
> -- 
> Les
> If people know by taking part in protests there is a danger of being 
> searched,
> they should think about not putting themselves in that position.

Yep.

Its going along nicely for the muslim pratts, the government are slowly taking our rights 
away and the freedom that we now enjoy.  Soon enough the muslims will be able to just take 
over and half the work is already done for them.


------------
Regards

Trespasser
----------------

When I die, can I do a deal with god for a better place in hell?

I'm not paranoid, I use someone else's wireless network

I am not a free man, I am a number on someone's database

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Http://digitalgrudge.no-ip.org

----------------------------
"Lee"  wrote in message news:kMxml.18355$Qq7.12119@newsfe25.ams2...
>A FORMER MI5 chief today accused the Government of exploiting fears of terrorism to pass 
>draconian laws as fresh allegations emerged of Britain's complicity in torture.
> Dame Stella Rimington declared that ministers were playing into the hands of terrorists 
> by curbing civil liberties. In an interview with a Spanish newspaper published today, 
> Dame Stella said that the Government was "frightening people in order to be able to pass 
> laws which restrict civil liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we 
> live in fear and under a police state".
>
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23644654-details/Ex-MI5+chief:+Ministers+scare+public+to+pass+terrorism+laws/article.do
>
>

On Feb 17, 4:07 am, "Lee"  wrote:
> A FORMER MI5 chief today accused the Government of exploiting fears of
> terrorism to pass draconian laws as fresh allegations emerged of Britain's
> complicity in torture.
> Dame Stella Rimington declared that ministers were playing into the hands of
> terrorists by curbing civil liberties. In an interview with a Spanish
> newspaper published today, Dame Stella said that the Government was
> "frightening people in order to be able to pass laws which restrict civil
> liberties, precisely one of the objects of terrorism: that we live in fear
> and under a police state".
>
> http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23644654-details/Ex-MI...

Manufactured terrorism produces handy cover to consolidate power in
the hands of autocrats - at the expense of freedoms for citizens.

The terrorist need not even be real.
The sheeple are too cowardly to even question the new restrictions
placed upon them.