http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece

“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
plan”

---------------------------------------------
David Cameron said:

“As part of his green energy policy he said competition between
neighbours needs to be kick-started to ensure each tries to be the
greenest consumer in their streets“.
---------------------------------------------------

Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
parents for using too much energy.

Not only does he appear to want to be leader of the Tory Party, it
appears he wants to be the leader of the Lib/Lab/Con Party and be the
new Fuehrer of the British Fourth Reich,. A Reich which competes with
the old totalitarian fatherland in its  subjugation of acceptable
civilized behaviour.

There does not seem to be much difference between him and Brown. Well
they are both members of a  British political system that we did not
fight two world wars to see in power in Great
Britain!.....................................DID WE?

incognito wrote:


> So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
> True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
> parents for using too much energy.
> 

This analogy is too far-fetched, and fails under Godwin's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
-- 
Facts are sacred ... but comment is free

On Jun 16, 5:29 pm, Robin T Cox  wrote:
> incognito wrote:
> > So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
> > True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
> > parents for using too much energy.
>
> This analogy is too far-fetched, and fails under Godwin's Law.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
> --
> Facts are sacred ... but comment is free
Godwin's Law is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by
Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a
tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is
made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has
automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
Retrieved from "http://distributedresearch.net/wiki/index.php/Godwin
%27s_Law"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

My post was the first in the thread therefore your analogy does not
count under the supposed Godwin's Law.

If you wish to look clever , “sonny”,  at least try (as hard as you
may find it to do so) to get your facts right.

On 16 Jun, 16:58, incognito  wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> “Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
> plan”
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> David Cameron said:
>
> “As part of his green energy policy he said competition between
> neighbours needs to be kick-started to ensure each tries to be the
> greenest consumer in their streets“.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
> would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------> So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
> True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their> parents for using too much energy.

Mr. Cameron needs to get it though his head that using energy isn't
intrinsically immoral. You pay for it. You can use as much as you
want.

The technology exists to eliminate a huge percentage of carbon dioxide
output, and still produce more energy than we currently do.

If he supports the tenuous C02-global warming link as much as he says,
he should concentrate on such technology, and not anti-privacy garbage
like this.

But then that wouldn't fit with the raison-d'tre of the global-warming
movement, which is becoming a religion in all but name - it boasts
puritanism, guilt-trips, social-control, and is more than capable of
producing a lot of profit for the "priests".

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
 wrote:

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
>“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>plan”

>Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

your 'report' is false....

what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
    and motivational psychology

this is the real back story and source

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
"It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.

Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
the project.

That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
users remained frugal."

...
"We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
think people need extra guidance."



-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
>  wrote:
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
> >plan”
> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­-------------------
>
> your 'report' is false....
>
> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
>     and motivational psychology
>
> this is the real back story and source
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>
> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
> the project.
>
> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
> users remained frugal."
>
> ...
> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
> think people need extra guidance."
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
>  energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>   all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>   the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
>   good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
>                     only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece

It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
If you think it is false take it up with them.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito
 wrote:

>On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>> >plan”
>> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­-------------------
>>
>> your 'report' is false....
>>
>> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
>>     and motivational psychology
>>
>> this is the real back story and source
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
>> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
>> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
>> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
>> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
>> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>>
>> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
>> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
>> the project.
>>
>> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
>> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
>> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
>> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
>> users remained frugal."
>>
>> ...
>> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
>> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
>> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
>> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
>> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
>> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
>> think people need extra guidance."

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
>It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
>If you think it is false take it up with them.

you are responsible for what you post....
your report was false

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The councils should visit those sat on the dole in their council
houses getting free rents and council tax yet their houses are full of
wealth.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
 wrote:

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
>“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>plan”
>
>---------------------------------------------
>David Cameron said:
>
>“As part of his green energy policy he said competition between
>neighbours needs to be kick-started to ensure each tries to be the
>greenest consumer in their streets“.
>---------------------------------------------------


>Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Mr Cameron said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
would also have smart metres allowing homeowners to see how much
energy they were consuming minute-by-minute"

note the addition of 'also' in the first line....

note more particularly that 'energy they were consuming' has been
     replaced by 'energy their neighbours were consuming'

>So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
>True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
>parents for using too much energy.
>
>Not only does he appear to want to be leader of the Tory Party, it
>appears he wants to be the leader of the Lib/Lab/Con Party and be the
>new Fuehrer of the British Fourth Reich,. A Reich which competes with
>the old totalitarian fatherland in its  subjugation of acceptable
>civilized behaviour.
>
>There does not seem to be much difference between him and Brown. Well
>they are both members of a  British political system that we did not
>fight two world wars to see in power in Great
>Britain!.....................................DID WE?


-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:04:10 -0700 (PDT), Robert S
 wrote:

>On 16 Jun, 16:58, incognito  wrote:
>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> “Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>> plan”
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------
>> David Cameron said:
>>
>> “As part of his green energy policy he said competition between
>> neighbours needs to be kick-started to ensure each tries to be the
>> greenest consumer in their streets“.
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>> consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>> would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>> would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>> energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
>> True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
>> parents for using too much energy.
>
>Mr. Cameron needs to get it though his head that using energy isn't
>intrinsically immoral. You pay for it. You can use as much as you
>want.

>The technology exists to eliminate a huge percentage of carbon dioxide
>output, and still produce more energy than we currently do.

you'd be better reading the article...
the original post has an alleged 'quote' that appears to be
     falsified....


>If he supports the tenuous C02-global warming link as much as he says,
>he should concentrate on such technology, and not anti-privacy garbage
>like this.
>
>But then that wouldn't fit with the raison-d'tre of the global-warming
>movement, which is becoming a religion in all but name - it boasts
>puritanism, guilt-trips, social-control, and is more than capable of
>producing a lot of profit for the "priests".

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

incognito wrote:

> Each house would also have smart metres

Definitely, they're the only ones that know that they are 100 
centimetres. He's a smart bloke that Cameron.

Robin T Cox wrote:
> incognito wrote:
>
>
>> So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
>> True blue Nazism where we all "shop" one another and kids report
>> their parents for using too much energy.
>>
>
> This analogy is too far-fetched, and fails under Godwin's Law.

Already? Bugger. The thread has only just got started and I was ready to 
rant. Pah, that's Mondays for you.

Robert S wrote:

> Mr. Cameron needs to get it though his head that using energy isn't
> intrinsically immoral. You pay for it. You can use as much as you
> want.
>
I think I follow you but there is a logical probleme here. I can pay for 
prostitutes, cocaine, hit jobs therefore I can have as much as I want..

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 21:28:34 +0200, "John of Aix"
 wrote:

>incognito wrote:
>
>> Each house would also have smart metres
>
>Definitely, they're the only ones that know that they are 100 
>centimetres. He's a smart bloke that Cameron. 

meter 2  US var. of metre 1.


-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On 16 Jun, 20:32, "John of Aix"  wrote:
> Robert S wrote:
> > Mr. Cameron needs to get it though his head that using energy isn't
> > intrinsically immoral. You pay for it. You can use as much as you
> > want.
>
> I think I follow you but there is a logical probleme here. I can pay for
> prostitutes, cocaine, hit jobs therefore I can have as much as I want..

The first two, yes.

The third no, because that would involve harm to others. Unlike, say,
using incandescent bulbs in your own house (cf Australia).

On 16 Jun, 16:58, incognito  wrote:
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> “Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
> plan”
>
> ---------------------------------------------
> David Cameron said:
>
> “As part of his green energy policy he said competition between
> neighbours needs to be kick-started to ensure each tries to be the
> greenest consumer in their streets“.
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
> would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------------------
>
> So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
> True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their> parents for using too much energy.
>
> Not only does he appear to want to be leader of the Tory Party, it
> appears he wants to be the leader of the Lib/Lab/Con Party and be the
> new Fuehrer of the British Fourth Reich,. A Reich which competes with
> the old totalitarian fatherland in its  subjugation of acceptable
> civilized behaviour.
>
> There does not seem to be much difference between him and Brown. Well
> they are both members of a  British political system that we did not
> fight two world wars to see in power in Great
> Britain!.....................................DID WE?

Surely  price rationing will have it's effect without marking front
doors for the local psychos. There is huge scope for slashing energy
consumption given the modern practice of overheating houses to enable
folk to walk around semi-naked in winter, not to mention our obsession
with cleanliness. AIUI it was not uncommon for people in this country
to wear combination underwear all year round without removing it, and
surely this is the spirit which Mr C and  all of us would like to see
rekindled today.

j

"count zero"  wrote in message 
news:1a5a2b63-650a-4aa6-8301-66e30a63fac5@k13g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
> The councils should visit those sat on the dole in their council
> houses getting free rents and council tax yet their houses are full of
> wealth.

They do.

I believe they visit them at least once a year.

-- 
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time,  like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 10:21:44 -0700 (PDT)  'incognito'
wrote this on uk.politics.misc:

>On Jun 16, 5:29 pm, Robin T Cox  wrote:
>> incognito wrote:
>> > So this is what Cameron and his Nu Conservatives believe in is it?
>> > True blue Nazism where we all “shop” one another and kids report their
>> > parents for using too much energy.
>>
>> This analogy is too far-fetched, and fails under Godwin's Law.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
>> --
>> Facts are sacred ... but comment is free
>Godwin's Law is an adage in Internet culture that was originated by
>Mike Godwin in 1990. The law states that:
>As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
>involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
>Although the law does not specifically mention it, there is a
>tradition in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is
>made, the thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has
>automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
>Retrieved from "http://distributedresearch.net/wiki/index.php/Godwin
>%27s_Law"
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>My post was the first in the thread therefore your analogy does not
>count under the supposed Godwin's Law.
>
>If you wish to look clever , “sonny”,  at least try (as hard as you
>may find it to do so) to get your facts right.

There was also a comment made by Godwin that there are occasions
when the use of Nazi and Hitler are relevant and accurate. He had
no intention of claiming that *all* use of the term was covered by
his law.


-- 
socialism is like chronic heart disease ...
you may not know you suffer from it, but it'll kill you in the end.

On Jun 16, 7:48 pm, abelard  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy> >> >plan”
> >> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> >> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
> >> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> >> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> >> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­­-------------------
>
> >> your 'report' is false....
>
> >> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
> >>     and motivational psychology
>
> >> this is the real back story and source
>
> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
> >> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
> >> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
> >> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
> >> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
> >> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>
> >> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
> >> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
> >> the project.
>
> >> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
> >> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
> >> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
> >> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
> >> users remained frugal."
>
> >> ...
> >> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
> >> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
> >> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
> >> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
> >> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
> >> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
> >> think people need extra guidance."
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
> >If you think it is false take it up with them.
>
> you are responsible for what you post....
> your report was false
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
>  energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>   all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>   the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
>   good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
>                     only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------ Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You are also responsible for that which you post and judging by the
illiteracy that you continuously display; that responsibility is a
heavy one to carry.

On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT), incognito
 wrote:

>On Jun 16, 7:48 pm, abelard  wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito

>>  wrote:
>> >On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>>
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> >> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>> >> >plan”
>> >> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>> >> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>> >> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>> >> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>> >> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­­-------------------
>>
>> >> your 'report' is false....
>>
>> >> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
>> >>     and motivational psychology
>>
>> >> this is the real back story and source
>>
>> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
>> >> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
>> >> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
>> >> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
>> >> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
>> >> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>>
>> >> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
>> >> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
>> >> the project.
>>
>> >> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
>> >> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
>> >> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
>> >> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
>> >> users remained frugal."
>> >> ...
>> >> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
>> >> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
>> >> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
>> >> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
>> >> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
>> >> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
>> >> think people need extra guidance."
>> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> >It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
>> >If you think it is false take it up with them.
>>
>> you are responsible for what you post....
>> your report was false

>You are also responsible for that which you post and judging by the
>illiteracy that you continuously display; that responsibility is a
>heavy one to carry.

your 'report' was false...and probably deliberately falsified by you..

that is your responsibility....

no use your thrashing around to try to obscure that fact

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jun 17, 12:53 am, abelard  wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Jun 16, 7:48 pm, abelard  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito
> >>  wrote:
> >> >On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >> >> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
> >> >> >plan”
> >> >> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> >> >> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure> >> >> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> >> >> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> >> >> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­-------------------
>
> >> >> your 'report' is false....
>
> >> >> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
> >> >>     and motivational psychology
>
> >> >> this is the real back story and source
>
> >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
> >> >> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
> >> >> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
> >> >> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
> >> >> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
> >> >> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>
> >> >> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
> >> >> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of> >> >> the project.
>
> >> >> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
> >> >> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
> >> >> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the> >> >> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
> >> >> users remained frugal."
> >> >> ...
> >> >> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
> >> >> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
> >> >> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
> >> >> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
> >> >> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas> >> >> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
> >> >> think people need extra guidance."
> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >> >It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
> >> >If you think it is false take it up with them.
>
> >> you are responsible for what you post....
> >> your report was false
> >You are also responsible for that which you post and judging by the
> >illiteracy that you continuously display; that responsibility is a
> >heavy one to carry.
>
> your 'report' was false...and probably deliberately falsified by you..
>
> that is your responsibility....
>
> no use your thrashing around to try to obscure that fact
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
>  energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>   all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>   the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
>   good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
>                     only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------ Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece

Above is the original link I gave on this thread.

If you wish to claim that I falsified “The Times” report,  for which I
gave (and give) a link, give proof and stop pissing about and making
out that you are the brains of the  British internet………It would seem
to me, after just a short time contributing to this Ng , that you are
an absurd personification of pomposity and ignorance; you are probably
a man/woman/cross-dresser of little intellect and even less education.
One  who bravely tries to find acclaim in an area where he cannot
(normally) be challenged  personally. Well “sonny”, I am challenging
you to come out from behind your bluster and  back up your hysterical
claims.

I mean: how many folk of substance would have to claim the ridiculous
accolades that you bestow  on yourself in your ridiculous posts. You
think that to use illiterate  abbreviations’ and  post in glib
subliminal  language  makes you look clever……..I would think that most
think it makes you look  the prick that you obviously are.

On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT), incognito
 wrote:

>On Jun 17, 12:53 am, abelard  wrote:
>> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  wrote:
>> >On Jun 16, 7:48 pm, abelard  wrote:
>> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>> >>  wrote:
>> >> >On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
>> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>>
>> >> >>  wrote:
>> >> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> >> >> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
>> >> >> >plan”
>> >> >> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
>> >> >> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
>> >> >> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
>> >> >> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
>> >> >> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
>> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­-------------------
>>
>> >> >> your 'report' is false....
>>
>> >> >> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
>> >> >>     and motivational psychology
>>
>> >> >> this is the real back story and source
>>
>> >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
>> >> >> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
>> >> >> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A
>> >> >> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
>> >> >> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
>> >> >> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>>
>> >> >> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
>> >> >> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
>> >> >> the project.
>>
>> >> >> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing
>> >> >> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
>> >> >> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
>> >> >> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light
>> >> >> users remained frugal."
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
>> >> >> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
>> >> >> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
>> >> >> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
>> >> >> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
>> >> >> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
>> >> >> think people need extra guidance."
>> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>>
>> >> >It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
>> >> >If you think it is false take it up with them.
>>
>> >> you are responsible for what you post....
>> >> your report was false
>> >You are also responsible for that which you post and judging by the
>> >illiteracy that you continuously display; that responsibility is a
>> >heavy one to carry.
>>
>> your 'report' was false...and probably deliberately falsified by you..
>>
>> that is your responsibility....
>>
>> no use your thrashing around to try to obscure that fact

>http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
>Above is the original link I gave on this thread.
>
>If you wish to claim that I falsified “The Times” report,  for which I
>gave (and give) a link, give proof 

i have already so done
rbu

>and stop pissing about and making
>out that you are the brains of the  British internet………It would seem
>to me, after just a short time contributing to this Ng , that you are
>an absurd personification of pomposity and ignorance; you are probably
>a man/woman/cross-dresser of little intellect and even less education.
>One  who bravely tries to find acclaim in an area where he cannot
>(normally) be challenged  personally. Well “sonny”, I am challenging
>you to come out from behind your bluster and  back up your hysterical
>claims.
>
>I mean: how many folk of substance would have to claim the ridiculous
>accolades that you bestow  on yourself in your ridiculous posts. You
>think that to use illiterate  abbreviations’ and  post in glib
>subliminal  language  makes you look clever……..I would think that most
>think it makes you look  the prick that you obviously are.

-- 
web site at www.abelard.org - news comment service, logic, economics 
 energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
  the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
  good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
                    only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Jun 17, 1:12 pm, abelard  wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Jun 2008 05:06:59 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
>
>
>
>
>  wrote:
> >On Jun 17, 12:53 am, abelard  wrote:
> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
> >>  wrote:
> >> >On Jun 16, 7:48 pm, abelard  wrote:
> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 11:43:35 -0700 (PDT), incognito
> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> >On Jun 16, 7:31 pm, abelard  wrote:
> >> >> >> On Mon, 16 Jun 2008 08:58:08 -0700 (PDT), incognito
>
> >> >> >>  wrote:
> >> >> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >> >> >> >“Householders to be told to snoop on their neighbours in Tory energy
> >> >> >> >plan”
> >> >> >> >Mr Cameron also said he wanted to see energy bills reveal the average
> >> >> >> >consumption of similar households so that neighbourly peer pressure
> >> >> >> >would ensure people tried to consume more efficiently. Each house
> >> >> >> >would also have smart metres allowing all homeowners to see how much
> >> >> >> >energy their neighbours were consuming minute-by-minute.
> >> >> >> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------­­­­-------------------
>
> >> >> >> your 'report' is false....
>
> >> >> >> what is being discussed is *average* consumption.....
> >> >> >>     and motivational psychology
>
> >> >> >> this is the real back story and source
>
> >> >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/25/science/25tier.html
> >> >> >> "It would be still more powerful, he and Mr. Sunstein suggest, if you
> >> >> >> knew how your energy consumption compared with the social norm. A> >> >> >> study in California showed that when the monthly electric bill listed
> >> >> >> the average consumption in the neighborhood, the people in
> >> >> >> above-average households significantly decreased their consumption.
>
> >> >> >> Meanwhile, the people with the below-average bills reacted by
> >> >> >> significantly increasing their consumption - not exactly the goal of
> >> >> >> the project.
>
> >> >> >> That reaction was avoided when the bill featured a little drawing> >> >> >> along with the numbers: a smiling face on a below-average bill or a
> >> >> >> frowning face on an above-average bill. After that simple nudge, the
> >> >> >> heavy users made even bigger cuts in consumption, while the light> >> >> >> users remained frugal."
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> "We need the right nudge, to borrow the title of the new book applying
> >> >> >> the lessons of social psychology and behavioral economics to
> >> >> >> everything from health care to climate maintenance. The authors of
> >> >> >> 'Nudge,' Cass Sunstein and Richard Thaler of the University of
> >> >> >> Chicago, agree with economists who’d like to reduce greenhouse gas
> >> >> >> emissions by imposing carbon taxes or a cap-and-trade system, but they
> >> >> >> think people need extra guidance."
> >> >> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >> >> >It is not my report, it is a report from The Times, link given above.
> >> >> >If you think it is false take it up with them.
>
> >> >> you are responsible for what you post....
> >> >> your report was false
> >> >You are also responsible for that which you post and judging by the
> >> >illiteracy that you continuously display; that responsibility is a
> >> >heavy one to carry.
>
> >> your 'report' was false...and probably deliberately falsified by you..
>
> >> that is your responsibility....
>
> >> no use your thrashing around to try to obscure that fact
> >http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article4149030.ece
>
> >Above is the original link I gave on this thread.
>
> >If you wish to claim that I falsified “The Times” report,  for which I
> >gave (and give) a link, give proof
>
> i have already so done
> rbu
>
> >and stop pissing about and making
> >out that you are the brains of the  British internet………It would seem
> >to me, after just a short time contributing to this Ng , that you are
> >an absurd personification of pomposity and ignorance; you are probably
> >a man/woman/cross-dresser of little intellect and even less education.
> >One  who bravely tries to find acclaim in an area where he cannot
> >(normally) be challenged  personally. Well “sonny”, I am challenging
> >you to come out from behind your bluster and  back up your hysterical
> >claims.
>
> >I mean: how many folk of substance would have to claim the ridiculous
> >accolades that you bestow  on yourself in your ridiculous posts. You
> >think that to use illiterate  abbreviations’ and  post in glib
> >subliminal  language  makes you look clever……..I would think that most
> >think it makes you look  the prick that you obviously are.
>
> --
> web site atwww.abelard.org- news comment service, logic, economics
>  energy, education, politics, etc 1,552,396 document calls in year past
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­-----
>   all that is necessary for       []     walk quietly and carry
>   the triumph of evil is that      []           a big stick.
>   good people do nothing     []   trust actions not words
>                     only when it's funny -- roger rabbit
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------­------ Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

No you have not you hideous crackpot , you have only made accusations.
I ask again where have I falsified The Times report.?

No doubt you will reply in a Usenet dialect that you think “peeps”
will not be able to comprehend. You seem to work on the principle that
if you post in incomprehensible English,  most will not understand
you . You work on the lines that they will not have the time to try
and pick sense out of your garbage.

Have you never realised,  that because they know, from past
experience, that  your normal jumble of meaningless nonsense is
entirely worthless and too damn boring to read fully, they just giggle
and think Christ” its that idiot abelard again…….Time to move on.

Look on Google at their ratings for Usenet posters.  They award you
two stars out of five. They have given you two,  (no doubt because of
your prolific output of shite) how very sympathetic and kind  of them!