http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm

"Loz"  wrote in message 
news:6grop6Fha009U1@mid.individual.net...
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm


Many people fail to grasp the relationship between cause and effect (or 
choose to ignore it to advance their agenda).

x-no-archive: yes

On Aug 17, 11:58 pm, Loz  wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm

Shows where certain people put their priorities. Lower petrol prices
or world peace - no contest!

Haven't seen you here for a while, hope you're doing okay. I see Luton
are now up to minus twenty seven.

Evil Nigel

Loz  wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm

Yeah, praying for cheaper petrol.  Heard about 'em on the radio.

And it's not like petrol prices in the USA are particularly expensive,
if you take a look at it.  But they've just got to have their dirt cheap
gas to fill their horribly inefficient cars because it's an American's
right to fuck everything up horribly with a total absence of concern for
the environment.

I wouldn't mind them wanting to live in a sewer, if they weren't
dragging the rest of us down with them.

Doesn't it strike you as a deeply unchristian thing to do, to pray for
an environmental catastrophe?

Rowland.

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"Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote in 
message 
news:1ilvkku.1gh88f41aer3ndN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet...
> Loz  wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm
>
> Yeah, praying for cheaper petrol.  Heard about 'em on the radio.
>
> And it's not like petrol prices in the USA are particularly expensive,
> if you take a look at it.  But they've just got to have their dirt 
> cheap
> gas to fill their horribly inefficient cars because it's an American's
> right to fuck everything up horribly with a total absence of concern 
> for
> the environment.
>
> I wouldn't mind them wanting to live in a sewer, if they weren't
> dragging the rest of us down with them.
>
> Doesn't it strike you as a deeply unchristian thing to do, to pray for
> an environmental catastrophe?
>
> Rowland.
>
> -- 
> Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org
>                                            Sorry - the spam got to me
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I couldn't help myself and had to respond. I agree with your assessment 
of the situation with caveats.

1. The people doing the praying aren't the most intelligent creatures - 
if they were they wouldn't be praying for cheap gasoline.

2. The high price of gasoline affects the lower classes much more 
harshly than others, and a few dollars more for gasoline can wreak havoc 
with their meager budgets.

3. American mass transit systems are woefully inadequate and are not a 
viable option for the vast majority of the population.

I'm not sure about the unchristian bit (I don't know much about 
religion), but everything else sounds about right.

CJ

CJ Dunnaway  wrote:

> "Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote in 
> message 
> news:1ilvkku.1gh88f41aer3ndN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet...
> > Loz  wrote:
> >
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm
> >
> > Yeah, praying for cheaper petrol.  Heard about 'em on the radio.
> >
> > And it's not like petrol prices in the USA are particularly expensive,
> > if you take a look at it.  But they've just got to have their dirt 
> > cheap
> > gas to fill their horribly inefficient cars because it's an American's
> > right to fuck everything up horribly with a total absence of concern
> > for
> > the environment.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind them wanting to live in a sewer, if they weren't
> > dragging the rest of us down with them.
> >
> > Doesn't it strike you as a deeply unchristian thing to do, to pray for
> > an environmental catastrophe?
> >
> > Rowland.
> >
> > -- 
> > Remove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org
> >                                            Sorry - the spam got to me
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> > UK biker?   Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking
> 
> 
> I couldn't help myself and had to respond. I agree with your assessment
> of the situation with caveats.
> 
> 1. The people doing the praying aren't the most intelligent creatures -
> if they were they wouldn't be praying for cheap gasoline.
> 
> 2. The high price of gasoline affects the lower classes much more 
> harshly than others, and a few dollars more for gasoline can wreak havoc
> with their meager budgets.

Yeah, but in the USA, you have low petrol prices.  The idea that US gas
prices are high is absurd to a Brit like myself - you've still got dirt
cheap fuel to run your cars.

> 3. American mass transit systems are woefully inadequate and are not a
> viable option for the vast majority of the population.

But US petrol prices are low.

And if US mass transit systems are pitiful, then they should be made
otherwise.  The people of the USA have only themselves to blame if they
don't have decent public transport available to them.  You should be
voting in politicians who will improve public transport, rather than the
tossers you've had since the 1930s (especially bad since the 1950s) who
have been acting to destroy public transport so that the firms they are
acting for can make money out of road transport.

The USA used to have excellent public transport - until it was wiped out
by being bought up by the competition and closed down, in order that
particular firms could make excessive profits from road transport at the
expense of society at large.

Why is it that France has a supremely reliable and safe, not to mention
very extensive high speed train network (spreading out across Europe to
link France to Germany, the low countries, and the UK - yep, we've got
one TGV line in the UK so far - running to the Chunnel - with more to
follow if we're lucky) running at over 200mph while the USA has probably
the most pathetic rail network of any large, developed nation?

Is it that France has more money?  Better engineers?  Better industry?
What, than the USA?

Like hell it has.

Or is it more down to the fact that the USA is run by commercial lobbies
and the road transport lobby is in charge of transport policy?

No-one has ever been killed due to high speed operation of TGVs -
compare that to the USA's roads, which are unusually dangerous for a
developed nation.  Why can't the USA have the sort of safe, fast, clean,
efficient transport we have in Europe?  (or at least a similar degree of
road safety...)

Why so backward?

> I'm not sure about the unchristian bit (I don't know much about 
> religion), but everything else sounds about right.

Christians are supposed to give a damn about their fellow man, and not
fuck him around.  By aiming at lower petrol prices, you're aiming at
increased fossil fuel use, which increases global warming, thus acting
to fuck up the entire planetary ecology which is harmful to all
humanity.

It's certainly unchristian to behave like that.

Rowland.

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On 2008-08-18, Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote:
> Loz  wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm
>
> Yeah, praying for cheaper petrol.  Heard about 'em on the radio.
>
> And it's not like petrol prices in the USA are particularly expensive,
> if you take a look at it.  But they've just got to have their dirt cheap
> gas to fill their horribly inefficient cars because it's an American's
> right to fuck everything up horribly with a total absence of concern for
> the environment.
>
> I wouldn't mind them wanting to live in a sewer, if they weren't
> dragging the rest of us down with them.
>
> Doesn't it strike you as a deeply unchristian thing to do, to pray for
> an environmental catastrophe?
>
> Rowland.

It's contrary to my Christian upbringing to pray for anything for ones own 
benefit - but children still prayed 'let it rain on games day' if they 
didn't like being forced to play rugger (and of course, others prayed for 
the opposite).  

People praying for cheap car fuel merely exhibit their own naïvety or
gullibillity, in my opinion.  Or possibly selfishness, of course.  But if 
their prayers really do have such a strong effect on the physical world, I 
pray that they will pray for really 'good' things too ... world peace, end 
to hunger, that sort of thing.

Meanwhile, I'll pray for guidance and try to do the best I can.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

x-no-archive: yes

On Aug 18, 8:36 pm, Whiskers  wrote:

> Meanwhile, I'll pray for guidance

I suspect that the PPP pray to their god GPS SatNav for guidance :)

Evil Nigel

X-No-Archive: Yes

On 2008-08-18, Evil_Nigel@hotmail.co.uk  wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On Aug 18, 8:36 pm, Whiskers  wrote:
>
>> Meanwhile, I'll pray for guidance
>
> I suspect that the PPP pray to their god GPS SatNav for guidance :)

PPP = Petrol Pump Prayers?

Satnav seems to be the least reliable of heavenly guides - eg 
<http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/satnav_mishap/>.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

x-no-archive: yes

On Aug 18, 9:51 pm, Whiskers  wrote:

> PPP = Petrol Pump Prayers?

Petrol Pump Pilgrims.

> Satnav seems to be the least reliable of heavenly guides - eg
> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/satnav_mishap/>.

That's what happens when you treat technology as your master rather
than your servant.

The tabloids frequently run stories about large vehicles stuck in
narrow country lanes or under low bridges, or cars on railway tracks
or in rivers, because drivers blindly followed the instructions on
their satnavs.

And yet I'll probably end up getting one myself eventually :(

Evil Nigel

On 2008-08-18, Evil_Nigel@hotmail.co.uk  wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
>
> On Aug 18, 9:51 pm, Whiskers  wrote:
>
>> PPP = Petrol Pump Prayers?
>
> Petrol Pump Pilgrims.
>
>> Satnav seems to be the least reliable of heavenly guides - eg
>> <http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/satnav_mishap/>.
>
> That's what happens when you treat technology as your master rather
> than your servant.
>
> The tabloids frequently run stories about large vehicles stuck in
> narrow country lanes or under low bridges, or cars on railway tracks
> or in rivers, because drivers blindly followed the instructions on
> their satnavs.
>
> And yet I'll probably end up getting one myself eventually :(
>
> Evil Nigel

I have one, and it can be very useful especially when driving solo or with 
a passenger who can't or won't help with the navigation.  But you need to 
use the Mk 1 Eyeball and a smidgin of awareness, too.  It isn't a 
replacement for a good map.

-- 
-- ^^^^^^^^^^
--  Whiskers 
-- ~~~~~~~~~~

Evil_Nigel@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
> x-no-archive: yes
> 
> On Aug 17, 11:58 pm, Loz  wrote:
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm
> 
> Shows where certain people put their priorities. Lower petrol prices
> or world peace - no contest!
> 
> Haven't seen you here for a while, hope you're doing okay. I see Luton
> are now up to minus twenty seven.
> 
> Evil Nigel

Hi Nigel

I'm fine. I've been doing RL stuff so havent been on usenet as much as 
usual.

My second team Barnet havent started very well this season with 2 
defeats but at least they are 11 points away from the relegation zone ;-)

Loz

"Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote in 
message 
news:1ilvq33.1m80eba15wboumN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet...

<snip>
>> 3. American mass transit systems are woefully inadequate and are not 
>> a
>> viable option for the vast majority of the population.
>
> But US petrol prices are low.
>
> And if US mass transit systems are pitiful, then they should be made
> otherwise.  The people of the USA have only themselves to blame if 
> they
> don't have decent public transport available to them.  You should be
> voting in politicians who will improve public transport, rather than 
> the
> tossers you've had since the 1930s (especially bad since the 1950s) 
> who
> have been acting to destroy public transport so that the firms they 
> are
> acting for can make money out of road transport.
>
> The USA used to have excellent public transport - until it was wiped 
> out
> by being bought up by the competition and closed down, in order that
> particular firms could make excessive profits from road transport at 
> the
> expense of society at large.

<snip>

Many people who would vote in support of mass transit feel 
disenfranchised by the political process and don't bother to get 
involved. They don't even bother to watch TV news, let alone read a 
newspaper to stay abreast of current events.

I vote, I write letters to the editor of my local newspapers, I argue 
with the locals to try to help them see their folly, all to little or no 
avail. I'm not equipped to foment revolution, and there's not much else 
I can do.

CJ (who is hanging his head in shame)

Whiskers  wrote:

> On 2008-08-18, Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote:
> > Loz  wrote:
> >
> >> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7566566.stm
> >
> > Yeah, praying for cheaper petrol.  Heard about 'em on the radio.
> >
> > And it's not like petrol prices in the USA are particularly expensive,
> > if you take a look at it.  But they've just got to have their dirt cheap
> > gas to fill their horribly inefficient cars because it's an American's
> > right to fuck everything up horribly with a total absence of concern for
> > the environment.
> >
> > I wouldn't mind them wanting to live in a sewer, if they weren't
> > dragging the rest of us down with them.
> >
> > Doesn't it strike you as a deeply unchristian thing to do, to pray for
> > an environmental catastrophe?
> >
> > Rowland.
> 
> It's contrary to my Christian upbringing to pray for anything for ones own
> benefit

I'd forgotten that point.

> - but children still prayed 'let it rain on games day' if they 
> didn't like being forced to play rugger (and of course, others prayed for
> the opposite).  

True, but that's more like wishful thinking than anything else.

> People praying for cheap car fuel merely exhibit their own naïvety or
> gullibillity, in my opinion.  Or possibly selfishness, of course.

All of the above, I'd say.  And anyway, petrol in the USA is quite cheap
- it's a lot cheaper than here.

>  But if 
> their prayers really do have such a strong effect on the physical world, I
> pray that they will pray for really 'good' things too ... world peace, end
> to hunger, that sort of thing.
> 
> Meanwhile, I'll pray for guidance and try to do the best I can.

<smile>  Yes.

Rowland.

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CJ Dunnaway  wrote:

> "Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> >> 3. American mass transit systems are woefully inadequate and are not
> >> a viable option for the vast majority of the population.
> >
> > But US petrol prices are low.
> >
> > And if US mass transit systems are pitiful, then they should be made
> > otherwise.  The people of the USA have only themselves to blame if
> > they don't have decent public transport available to them.  You should
> > be voting in politicians who will improve public transport, rather than
> > the tossers you've had since the 1930s (especially bad since the 1950s)
> > who have been acting to destroy public transport so that the firms they
> > are acting for can make money out of road transport.
> >
> > The USA used to have excellent public transport - until it was wiped
> > out by being bought up by the competition and closed down, in order that
> > particular firms could make excessive profits from road transport at
> > the expense of society at large.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Many people who would vote in support of mass transit feel 
> disenfranchised by the political process and don't bother to get 
> involved. They don't even bother to watch TV news, let alone read a 
> newspaper to stay abreast of current events.

Quite - as I say, the people of the USA have only themselves to blame.
If they can't be bothered to vote or to stand for office and get shit
government, it's their fault.

It's like with petrol prices: we've got much more expensive petrol here
in the UK than you have in the USA - and I mean *MUCH* more.

We get by - but you know what?  A few years ago before the petrol got to
its current over-the-top levels, when it was closer to what you're
paying in the USA now, there was a sudden rush of big, fuel-hungry
vehicles on the road.

All these big SUVs and people carriers and things like that were filling
the roads - BMW X5s were a particular problem for me (very hard to
overtake 'em - due to the size of the vehicle and the generally bad
attitude of the driver).

Then petrol prices started creeping higher.  There are far fewer
fuel-hungry private vehicles on the roads these days.  People have
bought fuel efficient cars.

And when I travel on the motorway, I'll often see cars travelling at
50-60mph, often tail-gating HGVs (big articulated lorries; I think
they're called `semis' in the USA).  UK motorways have a 70mph speed
limit, and in practice the police won't pay any attention at all if you
do 80mph (/and/ they'll let you off for doing 90mph if you've been
sensible).

But I've seen long strings of slow-moving cars turning up over the last
year or so - seems that people have discovered the fuel economy benefits
of slowing down a little bit.

That's the way to deal with expensive petrol - use it more efficiently.
Not that the USA has particular expensive petrol.

> I vote, I write letters to the editor of my local newspapers, I argue
> with the locals to try to help them see their folly, all to little or no
> avail.

That sort of thing's useless.

> I'm not equipped to foment revolution, and there's not much else 
> I can do.

Stand for office - try to get yourself elected - that's got to be the
thing to try before revolution.  Okay, maybe you couldn't do it - there
are all sorts of unspoken limits on who may stand for office in the USA
(if you have one single dubious act in your past, you're barred from
office unless you can get the support of the rich and powerful people
who run the Democrat/Republican anti-democracy circus), and in any case
it's damned hard cut-throat work that not everyone's cut out for.

But you could try persuading someone else of like mind to stand for
office and support them.  How about co-founding a new political party?

The USA with its `two parties that aren't really separate' needs a
proper democracy and that means new political parties.

If Mexico's PRI can get pushed off the top spot after 70+ years in
power, why couldn't the Democrats and Republicans in the USA be pushed
off the scene?

Northern Irish politics had a shuffling around of political parties that
radical recently, because the parties that had been fully in charge
weren't delivering what the people wanted.

(mind you, NI had a lot of well established parties with lots of
grass-roots support - it was just a case of the moderate parties being
side-lined in favour of the extremists of the Paisley's DUP and Sinn
Fein/IRA.  And for all that the Paisley dynasty has its odious side,
unlike Sinn Fein/IRA they've never been murdering bastards.  Okay, okay,
Sinn Fein are politicians - it's just that they're the political wing of
the IRA and lots of prominent Sinn Fein people used to be IRA terrorists
including at least one government minister, who's actually doing rather
a good job from what little I've heard)

> CJ (who is hanging his head in shame)

<grin>  You could always move to a more civilised country.  New Zealand
or Canada, perhaps?

Not that either of those nations is startlingly well equipped with
public transport.  You'd want France or Germany for that.  Or the
Netherlands - apparently 80% of Dutch people speak English and you get
to smoke cannabis in the Amsterdam cafes (but not tobacco)[1].

The UK, usefully more civilised than the USA?  Well, a little bit, but
not enough.

Rowland.

[1]  It's illegal to smoke tobacco in enclosed public places in Holland.
Cannabis is also illegal, but to cut a long story short, they prosecute
for smoking tobacco but not for smoking or possessing cannabis.

The downside is that the Amsterdam cafes are full of stoned Brits.
Better than pissed Brits, but still...

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"Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote in 
message 
news:1ilxvda.zp31miv3e6plN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet...

<snip>
>> CJ (who is hanging his head in shame)
>
> <grin>  You could always move to a more civilised country.  New 
> Zealand
> or Canada, perhaps?
>
> Not that either of those nations is startlingly well equipped with
> public transport.  You'd want France or Germany for that.  Or the
> Netherlands - apparently 80% of Dutch people speak English and you get
> to smoke cannabis in the Amsterdam cafes (but not tobacco)[1].
>
> The UK, usefully more civilised than the USA?  Well, a little bit, but
> not enough.
>
> Rowland.
>
> [1]  It's illegal to smoke tobacco in enclosed public places in 
> Holland.
> Cannabis is also illegal, but to cut a long story short, they 
> prosecute
> for smoking tobacco but not for smoking or possessing cannabis.
>
> The downside is that the Amsterdam cafes are full of stoned Brits.
> Better than pissed Brits, but still...

I wish that were a viable option for me but alas, for various reasons, 
it is not.

CJ

CJ Dunnaway  wrote:

> "Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> >> CJ (who is hanging his head in shame)
> >
> > <grin>  You could always move to a more civilised country.  New
> > Zealand or Canada, perhaps?
> >
> > Not that either of those nations is startlingly well equipped with
> > public transport.  You'd want France or Germany for that.  Or the
> > Netherlands - apparently 80% of Dutch people speak English and you get
> > to smoke cannabis in the Amsterdam cafes (but not tobacco)[1].
> >
> > The UK, usefully more civilised than the USA?  Well, a little bit, but
> > not enough.
> >
> > Rowland.
> >
> > [1]  It's illegal to smoke tobacco in enclosed public places in
> > Holland. Cannabis is also illegal, but to cut a long story short, they
> > prosecute for smoking tobacco but not for smoking or possessing
> > cannabis.
> >
> > The downside is that the Amsterdam cafes are full of stoned Brits.
> > Better than pissed Brits, but still...
> 
> I wish that were a viable option for me but alas, for various reasons,
> it is not.

It's never a good idea to limit yourself in your imagination too much.

Why couldn't you move to a different country?

A lot of people do, you know.

Rowland.

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"Rowland McDonnell" <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote in 
message 
news:1ilzr98.2i02u01az8yicN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet...

<snip>
>> I wish that were a viable option for me but alas, for various 
>> reasons,
>> it is not.
>
> It's never a good idea to limit yourself in your imagination too much.
>
> Why couldn't you move to a different country?
>
> A lot of people do, you know.

1) I'm unemployed and have no money with which to make a new start 
elsewhere.
2) I'm 48 years old and in poor health meaning I'd need to get a whole 
new set of doctors.
3) I have a recent felony conviction which may limit my options for 
finding employment and/or getting permission to work.
4) I've grown weary of moving and lack the ambition to make such a 
drastic change.
5) I am neither physically nor emotionally capable of such a move - I'm 
not a young man anymore.

But one can dream.

CJ