This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
completely gone!

This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html

I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.

Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, saw 
palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and remember 
getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week ago).

Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)

Regards
Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian

"IanW"  wrote in message 
news:f0k6kv$10j7$1@energise.enta.net...
> This is a bit off topic in the sense that I don't think the symptom was 
> anything to do with my CFS but for years (and I mean at least 5) I've had 
> this pain in my shoulder joint that I get when I raise my left arm 
> vertically above my shoulder, such as most mornings when I fold my arms up 
> behind my head on waking. I always assumed I must have damaged the joint 
> somehow and it was an early spot of arthritis. Well, the thing is, it's 
> completely gone!
>
> This has never happened before and so I'm wondering what it's down to. One 
> thing I have been taking for the past week, morning and night is this:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/fountain_of_youth.html
> The main component is cider vinegar and there's more about it here:
> http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/acvinegar.html
>
> I use 2 tbsp cider vinegar, 1 tbsp molasses, 1/8 tsp powdered tumeric, 1/4 
> tsp powdered cayenne pepper and 1/4 tsp bicarbonate soda.
>
> Yes, it does taste pretty vile but you get used ot it a little. Other than 
> that the only regular supplements I've been taking are b-complex, vit C, 
> saw palmetto (for hair loss!!) but I've been taking those for ages and 
> remember getting the pain not that long ago (probably was about a week 
> ago).
>
> Anyway, worth a try if you have any similar pains :-)
>
> Regards
> Ian
>
>
>
I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting ME.

I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable amount, 
not huge but definate improvement.

Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up the 
back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

"Steven (Silverblade)"  wrote in 
message news:cnFZh.9574
> I'm sure CFS has caused hair los sin me, doc keep saying "Male patern 
> baldness" and I'm like, "Noooooo", doesn't go like it has to me, in my 
> family. My hair keeps failing out by the ton and my scalp has become 
> scabbed/flakey and bleeds at times, which did not happen before getting 
> ME.

I think alot of things can cause excessive hair loss.. mine has been 
thinning for years but had a burst of extra thinning the end of last year 
and so far it's still going a bit faster this year.. however, I've had a 
load of stress over something and that can make matters worse. I think 
overall anything that uses up more of the vits/mins that healthy hair needs, 
or causes reduced absorption of those key nutrients, will cause more hair 
loss.

I actually wonder if over-stimulation of the adrenals can cause hair loss, 
because one thing my accelerated hair loss coincides with is me getting into 
green tea, and while caffeine levels are lower in the stuff there is still 
some in there.

> I found selenium and fish oil helped the mental problems a npitcable 
> amount, not huge but definate improvement.

yeah those and b-vits. I am very on & off with supplements though and they 
can allegedly take weeks to have any effect so I probably don't always 
persist long enough for any of them to have a serious effect.

> Also get hellish pains in upper arms, liek blunt spikes being shoved up 
> the back/outisde of 'em, or like someone's grabbed you brutlaly hard.

not had those but they sound awful. I've never really had much pain with the 
CFS though.. apart from a strange very occassional pain that kind of goes 
round in a band round my chest, but not had that for a while.

Ian