Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
dead.

Opinions please!

In article ,
ChrisC   wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.

I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

Some people are still reading him, and anxiously awaiting the
publication of book whatever-it-is.

Try reading the first book.  If at the end you want to read
further, do.  I didn't.

If you're interested in reading some fantasy that goes on in many
volumes but is still interesting, try Brust's Dragaeran series.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC  wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

How bored are you?  How desperate are you for something to read?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?"

I read them all again each time a new one comes out.

>And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.

Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.

The first part of the first book is (deliberately) a homage to the first
part of Lord of the Rings, but it diverges quite quickly after that. I think
it's worth reading them all - though I think I might have been happier if
there had been shorter intervals between publications... It's very much like
a High Fantasy soap opera. But be warned that you're going to repeatedly run
into stuff that doesn't get explained fully right away, and new stuff keeps
dropping in to the mix.

Others' opinions may vary, but if I'd known how long it would be going on,
I still would definitely have picked up that first book and read it.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!
> 

Someone gave me volume one, which I read. That was rather interesting, 
so I got volume 2. It was less interesting, but I read all of it. By 
volume 3 a pattern became obvious. Except for volume 1, each volume 
seems to have 3 distinct parts. The first 100-150 pages move along the 
story. The next n pages are dull dulll dullll and nothing really 
happens. The last 50 or 100 pages start the story moving again. I made 
it to about half way through volume 3, and then I found I just couldn't 
keep my eyes open for more than a few pages at a time.

This said, I would strongly advise getting the books from your local 
library rather than buying them. If it turns out you are really like the 
series, you can always buy the books later. If you don't like it, you 
haven't wasted a lot of money.

It seems that the author is far more interested in publishing the 
longest fantasy story than the best one.



-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
catchphrase:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words

In article ,
  wrote:
>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>catchphrase:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>

Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Well, lately I'm studying a lot about books in many genres.

His books sell well, so probably you should try.
 
--
Now working at http://www.newonlineshopping.net

Books, Clothing and Accessories, Computers,
Electronics, Gifts, Jewelry and Watches.

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article ,
>   wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Opinions please!
>> Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>> was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>> catchphrase:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>>
> 
> Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Yes, but they were, as the man said, "cherce."

-- 
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (2006), Poltergeist (2007)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" 

Mr. Raven has read them all.  I've made it to 9. There's too much other 
stuff to read.

And is it worth it???

<shrug> that depends on you.  IMO people either like them or don't.  I 
think they should have been wrapped up well before now, but will 
probably finish them at some point. YMMV.


-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

David DeLaney wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?"
> 
> I read them all again each time a new one comes out.
> 
>> And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.
> 
> Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
> going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
> up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
> book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
> never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
> of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
> covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
> the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.
> 

Except the next, and last book by the authors' admission, is supposed to 
be super extra duper long....he said that he was unable to find a place 
to split it in two so he's putting out the whole thing in 2009.  Which 
is good, IMO....since he's ill and might not live longer than that.  I'm 
not cold blooded..I hope he finds a cure or at least doesn't suffer, but 
I'd like the story to be finished also.

-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
into depth of character or story.

One thing I will say: he stereotypes the behavior of women and young
men way too much.  A character who's a young, swaggering gambler and
serial-tavern-wench-kisser will never never think to himself "where is
[shy, taciturn friend who's never had a girlfriend]? I don't know what
to say to girls and he always does." Or anything close to that. But
all the young men handle their interactions with women they find
attractive that way pretty much every time. And all the women, no
matter their age, respond to other women by twitching their skirts,
pulling on their hair, and trying to take each other down a peg.
Again, almost every time 2 or more women are in the same room the
exact same emotional responses are described. And yet, in all of his
12 books he hasn't mentioned female-patterned baldness. Go figure.

Pick it up if my first paragraph sounds like stuff you'd find
interesting, but keep your equilibrium - he's as imperfect as the rest
of us.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.

At this point you're better off waiting until he's finished the last
book or two. I've been in a holding pattern for three books now. Once
he's done I'll be going back to read the whole thing.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

It holds up way better than the other long series that started off
well with "Wizard's First Rule". Of course, that may not be saying
much.

John Savard

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
>world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
>based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
>gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
>you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
>flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
>cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
>coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
>other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
>there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
>into depth of character or story.
>
I found the world interesting, but have to admit that about book 6 I
said more than the 8 deadly words.  My exact thoughts were:  "I hope
the bad guy breaks out so that he can kill all these people and the
story will be over."  At which point I decided it was probably time to
stop reading the story.

Oh, and about the male/female relationships... they are very much
young male wish fulfillment, at least in the books I read.  Two young
women are attracted to the same guy, who isn't treating either one all
that well.  Do they decide to dump him and go find men who appreciate
them for who they are?  Do they decide to try to out-compete each
other in fixing the young man's attention?  No, they decide that since
neither of them can have him exclusively, they'll go ahead and share.
Even though (iirc) the two women don't particularly like each other.
That sort of thing.

Rebecca
-- 
Goat:  Your soul's so dark it smudges mine.

ChrisC wrote:
> How long can you flog a dead horse? 

	The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
with "Xanth".




-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
      Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:35:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

He has already told us that each book is the next rotation of the
wheel of time - so it's pointless to go on.

Sea Wasp wrote:
> ChrisC wrote:
> 
>> How long can you flog a dead horse? 
> 
> 
>     The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
> with "Xanth".
> 

Good comparison.  But at least the Xanth books aren't a zillion pages 
long, and the plot continues to move.

Some people feel the same way about Split Infinity et al.


-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath. 

Been eating worms?

On Jun 7, 5:33 pm, David Johnston  wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
> wrote:
>
> >Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> >really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> >say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> >the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> >dead.
>
> >Opinions please!
>
> Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
> paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
> each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
> resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
> destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.  

I have been re-watching Xena, for the first time since it went out of
production.  I won't say it is flawless, but through the first four
seasons at least, an endlessly growing cast isn't the problem.  There
are Xena and Gabrielle, of course, and Joxur as a frequently recurring
character and a handful of occasionally recurring characters.  This
has been the case all along.

For what it is worth, I was skeptical about how well it would hold
up.  I picked up the first season on a whim, and was pleasantly
surprised.

Richard R. Hershberger

In article ,
 ChrisC  wrote:

> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!

Run away!

Don't start the series and you won't have to be disappointed later on 
when it all dissolves into gibberish.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Jun 8, 10:03 am, Howard Brazee  wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
> wrote:
>
> >However, I don't pre-
> >order or wait for them with baited breath.
>
> Been eating worms?

Ack!  Well, tripping over something small is usually what happens when
one's nose is in the air.  I really hate when people mix-up homonyms.
However, it wasn't a total loss.  While I was looking up more
information on my error I found the following cited in an article on
the widespread confusion around baited/bated:

Cruel Clever Cat
 by Geoffrey Taylor

    Sally, having swallowed cheese,
    Directs down holes the scented breeze,
    Enticing thus with baited breath
    Nice mice to an untimely death.

In article ,
ChrisC   wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.

I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

Some people are still reading him, and anxiously awaiting the
publication of book whatever-it-is.

Try reading the first book.  If at the end you want to read
further, do.  I didn't.

If you're interested in reading some fantasy that goes on in many
volumes but is still interesting, try Brust's Dragaeran series.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC  wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

How bored are you?  How desperate are you for something to read?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?"

I read them all again each time a new one comes out.

>And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.

Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.

The first part of the first book is (deliberately) a homage to the first
part of Lord of the Rings, but it diverges quite quickly after that. I think
it's worth reading them all - though I think I might have been happier if
there had been shorter intervals between publications... It's very much like
a High Fantasy soap opera. But be warned that you're going to repeatedly run
into stuff that doesn't get explained fully right away, and new stuff keeps
dropping in to the mix.

Others' opinions may vary, but if I'd known how long it would be going on,
I still would definitely have picked up that first book and read it.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!
> 

Someone gave me volume one, which I read. That was rather interesting, 
so I got volume 2. It was less interesting, but I read all of it. By 
volume 3 a pattern became obvious. Except for volume 1, each volume 
seems to have 3 distinct parts. The first 100-150 pages move along the 
story. The next n pages are dull dulll dullll and nothing really 
happens. The last 50 or 100 pages start the story moving again. I made 
it to about half way through volume 3, and then I found I just couldn't 
keep my eyes open for more than a few pages at a time.

This said, I would strongly advise getting the books from your local 
library rather than buying them. If it turns out you are really like the 
series, you can always buy the books later. If you don't like it, you 
haven't wasted a lot of money.

It seems that the author is far more interested in publishing the 
longest fantasy story than the best one.



-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
catchphrase:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words

In article ,
  wrote:
>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>catchphrase:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>

Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Well, lately I'm studying a lot about books in many genres.

His books sell well, so probably you should try.
 
--
Now working at http://www.newonlineshopping.net

Books, Clothing and Accessories, Computers,
Electronics, Gifts, Jewelry and Watches.

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article ,
>   wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Opinions please!
>> Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>> was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>> catchphrase:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>>
> 
> Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Yes, but they were, as the man said, "cherce."

-- 
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (2006), Poltergeist (2007)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" 

Mr. Raven has read them all.  I've made it to 9. There's too much other 
stuff to read.

And is it worth it???

<shrug> that depends on you.  IMO people either like them or don't.  I 
think they should have been wrapped up well before now, but will 
probably finish them at some point. YMMV.


-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

David DeLaney wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?"
> 
> I read them all again each time a new one comes out.
> 
>> And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.
> 
> Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
> going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
> up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
> book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
> never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
> of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
> covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
> the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.
> 

Except the next, and last book by the authors' admission, is supposed to 
be super extra duper long....he said that he was unable to find a place 
to split it in two so he's putting out the whole thing in 2009.  Which 
is good, IMO....since he's ill and might not live longer than that.  I'm 
not cold blooded..I hope he finds a cure or at least doesn't suffer, but 
I'd like the story to be finished also.

-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
into depth of character or story.

One thing I will say: he stereotypes the behavior of women and young
men way too much.  A character who's a young, swaggering gambler and
serial-tavern-wench-kisser will never never think to himself "where is
[shy, taciturn friend who's never had a girlfriend]? I don't know what
to say to girls and he always does." Or anything close to that. But
all the young men handle their interactions with women they find
attractive that way pretty much every time. And all the women, no
matter their age, respond to other women by twitching their skirts,
pulling on their hair, and trying to take each other down a peg.
Again, almost every time 2 or more women are in the same room the
exact same emotional responses are described. And yet, in all of his
12 books he hasn't mentioned female-patterned baldness. Go figure.

Pick it up if my first paragraph sounds like stuff you'd find
interesting, but keep your equilibrium - he's as imperfect as the rest
of us.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.

At this point you're better off waiting until he's finished the last
book or two. I've been in a holding pattern for three books now. Once
he's done I'll be going back to read the whole thing.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

It holds up way better than the other long series that started off
well with "Wizard's First Rule". Of course, that may not be saying
much.

John Savard

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
>world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
>based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
>gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
>you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
>flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
>cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
>coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
>other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
>there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
>into depth of character or story.
>
I found the world interesting, but have to admit that about book 6 I
said more than the 8 deadly words.  My exact thoughts were:  "I hope
the bad guy breaks out so that he can kill all these people and the
story will be over."  At which point I decided it was probably time to
stop reading the story.

Oh, and about the male/female relationships... they are very much
young male wish fulfillment, at least in the books I read.  Two young
women are attracted to the same guy, who isn't treating either one all
that well.  Do they decide to dump him and go find men who appreciate
them for who they are?  Do they decide to try to out-compete each
other in fixing the young man's attention?  No, they decide that since
neither of them can have him exclusively, they'll go ahead and share.
Even though (iirc) the two women don't particularly like each other.
That sort of thing.

Rebecca
-- 
Goat:  Your soul's so dark it smudges mine.

ChrisC wrote:
> How long can you flog a dead horse? 

	The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
with "Xanth".




-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
      Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:35:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

He has already told us that each book is the next rotation of the
wheel of time - so it's pointless to go on.

Sea Wasp wrote:
> ChrisC wrote:
> 
>> How long can you flog a dead horse? 
> 
> 
>     The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
> with "Xanth".
> 

Good comparison.  But at least the Xanth books aren't a zillion pages 
long, and the plot continues to move.

Some people feel the same way about Split Infinity et al.


-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath. 

Been eating worms?

On Jun 7, 5:33 pm, David Johnston  wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
> wrote:
>
> >Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> >really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> >say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> >the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> >dead.
>
> >Opinions please!
>
> Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
> paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
> each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
> resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
> destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.  

I have been re-watching Xena, for the first time since it went out of
production.  I won't say it is flawless, but through the first four
seasons at least, an endlessly growing cast isn't the problem.  There
are Xena and Gabrielle, of course, and Joxur as a frequently recurring
character and a handful of occasionally recurring characters.  This
has been the case all along.

For what it is worth, I was skeptical about how well it would hold
up.  I picked up the first season on a whim, and was pleasantly
surprised.

Richard R. Hershberger

In article ,
 ChrisC  wrote:

> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!

Run away!

Don't start the series and you won't have to be disappointed later on 
when it all dissolves into gibberish.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Jun 8, 10:03 am, Howard Brazee  wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
> wrote:
>
> >However, I don't pre-
> >order or wait for them with baited breath.
>
> Been eating worms?

Ack!  Well, tripping over something small is usually what happens when
one's nose is in the air.  I really hate when people mix-up homonyms.
However, it wasn't a total loss.  While I was looking up more
information on my error I found the following cited in an article on
the widespread confusion around baited/bated:

Cruel Clever Cat
 by Geoffrey Taylor

    Sally, having swallowed cheese,
    Directs down holes the scented breeze,
    Enticing thus with baited breath
    Nice mice to an untimely death.

In article ,
ChrisC   wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.

I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

Some people are still reading him, and anxiously awaiting the
publication of book whatever-it-is.

Try reading the first book.  If at the end you want to read
further, do.  I didn't.

If you're interested in reading some fantasy that goes on in many
volumes but is still interesting, try Brust's Dragaeran series.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC  wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

How bored are you?  How desperate are you for something to read?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?"

I read them all again each time a new one comes out.

>And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.

Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.

The first part of the first book is (deliberately) a homage to the first
part of Lord of the Rings, but it diverges quite quickly after that. I think
it's worth reading them all - though I think I might have been happier if
there had been shorter intervals between publications... It's very much like
a High Fantasy soap opera. But be warned that you're going to repeatedly run
into stuff that doesn't get explained fully right away, and new stuff keeps
dropping in to the mix.

Others' opinions may vary, but if I'd known how long it would be going on,
I still would definitely have picked up that first book and read it.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!
> 

Someone gave me volume one, which I read. That was rather interesting, 
so I got volume 2. It was less interesting, but I read all of it. By 
volume 3 a pattern became obvious. Except for volume 1, each volume 
seems to have 3 distinct parts. The first 100-150 pages move along the 
story. The next n pages are dull dulll dullll and nothing really 
happens. The last 50 or 100 pages start the story moving again. I made 
it to about half way through volume 3, and then I found I just couldn't 
keep my eyes open for more than a few pages at a time.

This said, I would strongly advise getting the books from your local 
library rather than buying them. If it turns out you are really like the 
series, you can always buy the books later. If you don't like it, you 
haven't wasted a lot of money.

It seems that the author is far more interested in publishing the 
longest fantasy story than the best one.



-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
catchphrase:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words

In article ,
  wrote:
>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>catchphrase:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>

Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Well, lately I'm studying a lot about books in many genres.

His books sell well, so probably you should try.
 
--
Now working at http://www.newonlineshopping.net

Books, Clothing and Accessories, Computers,
Electronics, Gifts, Jewelry and Watches.

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article ,
>   wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Opinions please!
>> Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>> was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>> catchphrase:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>>
> 
> Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Yes, but they were, as the man said, "cherce."

-- 
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (2006), Poltergeist (2007)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" 

Mr. Raven has read them all.  I've made it to 9. There's too much other 
stuff to read.

And is it worth it???

<shrug> that depends on you.  IMO people either like them or don't.  I 
think they should have been wrapped up well before now, but will 
probably finish them at some point. YMMV.


-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

David DeLaney wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?"
> 
> I read them all again each time a new one comes out.
> 
>> And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.
> 
> Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
> going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
> up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
> book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
> never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
> of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
> covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
> the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.
> 

Except the next, and last book by the authors' admission, is supposed to 
be super extra duper long....he said that he was unable to find a place 
to split it in two so he's putting out the whole thing in 2009.  Which 
is good, IMO....since he's ill and might not live longer than that.  I'm 
not cold blooded..I hope he finds a cure or at least doesn't suffer, but 
I'd like the story to be finished also.

-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
into depth of character or story.

One thing I will say: he stereotypes the behavior of women and young
men way too much.  A character who's a young, swaggering gambler and
serial-tavern-wench-kisser will never never think to himself "where is
[shy, taciturn friend who's never had a girlfriend]? I don't know what
to say to girls and he always does." Or anything close to that. But
all the young men handle their interactions with women they find
attractive that way pretty much every time. And all the women, no
matter their age, respond to other women by twitching their skirts,
pulling on their hair, and trying to take each other down a peg.
Again, almost every time 2 or more women are in the same room the
exact same emotional responses are described. And yet, in all of his
12 books he hasn't mentioned female-patterned baldness. Go figure.

Pick it up if my first paragraph sounds like stuff you'd find
interesting, but keep your equilibrium - he's as imperfect as the rest
of us.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.

At this point you're better off waiting until he's finished the last
book or two. I've been in a holding pattern for three books now. Once
he's done I'll be going back to read the whole thing.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

It holds up way better than the other long series that started off
well with "Wizard's First Rule". Of course, that may not be saying
much.

John Savard

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
>world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
>based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
>gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
>you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
>flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
>cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
>coming back each time a new novel is released. However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath.  I fill up my time with
>other books that are just as good or better.  He's long-winded and
>there's lots of twists and turns, but somehow it hasn't translated
>into depth of character or story.
>
I found the world interesting, but have to admit that about book 6 I
said more than the 8 deadly words.  My exact thoughts were:  "I hope
the bad guy breaks out so that he can kill all these people and the
story will be over."  At which point I decided it was probably time to
stop reading the story.

Oh, and about the male/female relationships... they are very much
young male wish fulfillment, at least in the books I read.  Two young
women are attracted to the same guy, who isn't treating either one all
that well.  Do they decide to dump him and go find men who appreciate
them for who they are?  Do they decide to try to out-compete each
other in fixing the young man's attention?  No, they decide that since
neither of them can have him exclusively, they'll go ahead and share.
Even though (iirc) the two women don't particularly like each other.
That sort of thing.

Rebecca
-- 
Goat:  Your soul's so dark it smudges mine.

ChrisC wrote:
> How long can you flog a dead horse? 

	The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
with "Xanth".




-- 
                      Sea Wasp
                        /^\
                        ;;;	
      Live Journal: http://seawasp.livejournal.com

On Thu, 7 Jun 2007 18:35:24 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
wrote:

>I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

He has already told us that each book is the next rotation of the
wheel of time - so it's pointless to go on.

Sea Wasp wrote:
> ChrisC wrote:
> 
>> How long can you flog a dead horse? 
> 
> 
>     The answer to that is filed under "Anthony, Piers", cross-referenced 
> with "Xanth".
> 

Good comparison.  But at least the Xanth books aren't a zillion pages 
long, and the plot continues to move.

Some people feel the same way about Split Infinity et al.


-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
wrote:

>However, I don't pre-
>order or wait for them with baited breath. 

Been eating worms?

On Jun 7, 5:33 pm, David Johnston  wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
> wrote:
>
> >Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> >really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> >say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> >the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> >dead.
>
> >Opinions please!
>
> Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
> paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
> each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
> resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
> destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.  

I have been re-watching Xena, for the first time since it went out of
production.  I won't say it is flawless, but through the first four
seasons at least, an endlessly growing cast isn't the problem.  There
are Xena and Gabrielle, of course, and Joxur as a frequently recurring
character and a handful of occasionally recurring characters.  This
has been the case all along.

For what it is worth, I was skeptical about how well it would hold
up.  I picked up the first season on a whim, and was pleasantly
surprised.

Richard R. Hershberger

In article ,
 ChrisC  wrote:

> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!

Run away!

Don't start the series and you won't have to be disappointed later on 
when it all dissolves into gibberish.

-- 
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall
to that wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you
sit in the bottom of that cupboard."

On Jun 8, 10:03 am, Howard Brazee  wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 06:23:35 -0000, dgpamudji 
> wrote:
>
> >However, I don't pre-
> >order or wait for them with baited breath.
>
> Been eating worms?

Ack!  Well, tripping over something small is usually what happens when
one's nose is in the air.  I really hate when people mix-up homonyms.
However, it wasn't a total loss.  While I was looking up more
information on my error I found the following cited in an article on
the widespread confusion around baited/bated:

Cruel Clever Cat
 by Geoffrey Taylor

    Sally, having swallowed cheese,
    Directs down holes the scented breeze,
    Enticing thus with baited breath
    Nice mice to an untimely death.

In article ,
ChrisC   wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.

I gave up on him in chapter 1, book 2.

Some people are still reading him, and anxiously awaiting the
publication of book whatever-it-is.

Try reading the first book.  If at the end you want to read
further, do.  I didn't.

If you're interested in reading some fantasy that goes on in many
volumes but is still interesting, try Brust's Dragaeran series.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC  wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

How bored are you?  How desperate are you for something to read?

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?"

I read them all again each time a new one comes out.

>And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.

Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.

The first part of the first book is (deliberately) a homage to the first
part of Lord of the Rings, but it diverges quite quickly after that. I think
it's worth reading them all - though I think I might have been happier if
there had been shorter intervals between publications... It's very much like
a High Fantasy soap opera. But be warned that you're going to repeatedly run
into stuff that doesn't get explained fully right away, and new stuff keeps
dropping in to the mix.

Others' opinions may vary, but if I'd known how long it would be going on,
I still would definitely have picked up that first book and read it.

Dave
-- 
\/David	DeLaney	posting	from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that	grows the flower
It's not the clock that	slows the hour 	The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is	all it takes to	make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE	HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Robert Jordan is a tragic victim of Xena's Paradox, (no, not Xeno's
paradox, this one applies to the writing of swords and sorcery).  With
each book the cast grows, and less and less progress is made to a
resolution of what is going.  Thus he will never reach his
destination.  However, his world is kind of interesting.

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
> 
> Opinions please!
> 

Someone gave me volume one, which I read. That was rather interesting, 
so I got volume 2. It was less interesting, but I read all of it. By 
volume 3 a pattern became obvious. Except for volume 1, each volume 
seems to have 3 distinct parts. The first 100-150 pages move along the 
story. The next n pages are dull dulll dullll and nothing really 
happens. The last 50 or 100 pages start the story moving again. I made 
it to about half way through volume 3, and then I found I just couldn't 
keep my eyes open for more than a few pages at a time.

This said, I would strongly advise getting the books from your local 
library rather than buying them. If it turns out you are really like the 
series, you can always buy the books later. If you don't like it, you 
haven't wasted a lot of money.

It seems that the author is far more interested in publishing the 
longest fantasy story than the best one.



-- 
You see writers are like sewers ... what you get out depends a great 
deal on what you put in.
                -- J. Michael Straczynski

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
catchphrase:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words

In article ,
  wrote:
>On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>> dead.
>>
>> Opinions please!
>
>Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>catchphrase:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>

Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Dorothy J. Heydt
Albany, California
djheydt@kithrup.com

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700, ChrisC 
wrote:

>Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>dead.
>
>Opinions please!

Well, lately I'm studying a lot about books in many genres.

His books sell well, so probably you should try.
 
--
Now working at http://www.newonlineshopping.net

Books, Clothing and Accessories, Computers,
Electronics, Gifts, Jewelry and Watches.

Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article ,
>   wrote:
>> On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
>>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>>> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
>>> dead.
>>>
>>> Opinions please!
>> Dorothy's being modest.  Her giving up on him in book 2, Chapter 1,
>> was one of the events that formed the basis of a basic rasf
>> catchphrase:
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Deadly_Words
>>
> 
> Heh.  Most people get fifteen minutes of fame, I get eight words.

Yes, but they were, as the man said, "cherce."

-- 
Kat Richardson
Greywalker (2006), Poltergeist (2007)
Website: http://www.katrichardson.com/
Bloggery: http://katrich.wordpress.com/

ChrisC wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" 

Mr. Raven has read them all.  I've made it to 9. There's too much other 
stuff to read.

And is it worth it???

<shrug> that depends on you.  IMO people either like them or don't.  I 
think they should have been wrapped up well before now, but will 
probably finish them at some point. YMMV.


-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

David DeLaney wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 10:40:33 -0700,  ChrisC  wrote:
>> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
>> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
>> say they have read them all?"
> 
> I read them all again each time a new one comes out.
> 
>> And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
>> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is dead.
> 
> Well. I still have it on my buy-in-hardback list. There is _quite a lot_
> going on in the series, including plot lines that get dropped and picked back
> up three books later, main characters who don't show up at all in a given
> book because too much else was going on, and some questions that may well
> never get resolved at all. It is a Big Sprawling Work that covers all sorts
> of stuff... and, unlike Harry Potter, where each book gets 30% longer and
> covers the same time interval, in one sense this series is keeping the books
> the same length and covering shorter and shorter intervals with each one.
> 

Except the next, and last book by the authors' admission, is supposed to 
be super extra duper long....he said that he was unable to find a place 
to split it in two so he's putting out the whole thing in 2009.  Which 
is good, IMO....since he's ill and might not live longer than that.  I'm 
not cold blooded..I hope he finds a cure or at least doesn't suffer, but 
I'd like the story to be finished also.

-- 
-Gina in Italy

Sig Not Found.

If found, return to me promptly.

On Jun 7, 12:40 pm, ChrisC  wrote:
> Is this guy worth starting or what. I fancy a fantasy soon and was
> really wondering 12+ books in the wheel of time. Can anyone honestly
> say they have read them all?" And is it worth it??? I'm at a lost to
> the amount in the series. How long can you flog a dead horse? If it is
> dead.
>
> Opinions please!

Depends on what you're looking for. I personally find the story and
world interesting.  The different people groups/nationalities are
based on real cultures he has studied, the 'magic' is split along
gender lines and is accessed and works differently depending on what
you are, and his mythology is backward: legends are about a time of
flying cars and other machines rather than knights on horses who
cherish ladies' hankies.  These 3 things are mainly what keeps me
coming back each tim