I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.

andon
--
To steal a persons words is plagiarism,
To steal from a whole newsgroup is research.

"andon"  wrote in message 
news:g9a5641hbv8f9kkir21hunij981mrtr3cl@4ax.com...
>I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
> splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
> it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
> using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
> home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
> up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.
>
> andon
> --
> To steal a persons words is plagiarism,
> To steal from a whole newsgroup is research.



a) you shouldnt be driving at all since you cant think and or see.
b) a real disabled person may actually need the space or even two of them.

I know, dont feed the trolls...

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:27 +0100, andon 
wrote:

>I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
>splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
>it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
>using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
>home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
>up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.

Because no matter how ill you feel for the moment, you are not, in fact
disabled?
-- 
"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
Rear Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper

<x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
news:92f564llhnpvahsc8i3d8hffdiib48f8mi@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:27 +0100, andon 
> wrote:
>
>>I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
>>splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
>>it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
>>using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
>>home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
>>up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.
>
> Because no matter how ill you feel for the moment, you are not, in fact
> disabled?
>
Trolling is a mental disability and thus they are indeed disabled?

-- 
Chris
Ignoti nulla cupido

On Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:40:38 +0100, "Cerumen"
, wrote:

>
><x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com> wrote in message 
>news:92f564llhnpvahsc8i3d8hffdiib48f8mi@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:27 +0100, andon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
>>>splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
>>>it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
>>>using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
>>>home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
>>>up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.
>>
>> Because no matter how ill you feel for the moment, you are not, in fact
>> disabled?
>>
>Trolling is a mental disability and thus they are indeed disabled?

Having a disability never required having one's sense of humour
removed.

It is amazing how short the memories of people who post here are.
It is also no surprise to see the instant assumption that just
because I had a cold that I did not have a life-long severe
disablement. That my PA does my driving, and that the fags were a
present for a friend who isn't on O2.

Then again, I would have thought that regulars might just have
recognised the sig file that I have used in writing here and to at
least 2 of you personally.

I'll go back to ignoring the group. It really did die 3 yrs ago
didn't it. 

andon
--
To steal a persons words is plagiarism,
To steal from a whole newsgroup is research.

On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:27 +0100, andon wrote:

> I have a really awful cold. It is causing sinus pain and my head is
> splitting. It has been like this all week. My eyes are streaming and
> it is hard to see because it is so bad. What is so wrong with me
> using a Disabled Bay to pop into the shop for some fags on the way
> home? The way some people go on. I only stopped there because I wan't
> up to going into Tescos and all that hassle.
> 
> andon

So many spritely "disabled" popping into our local Asda. Makes me want to
throw up.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment, 
mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas 
disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments 
which are negatively nuanced.

If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly 
and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)

-- 
þT

L'autisme c'est moi

"Space folds, and folded space bends, and bent folded space contracts and
expands unevenly in every way unconcievable except to someone who does not
believe in the laws of mathematics"

"Dead Paul" <dead_paul@no.reply> wrote in message 
news:g4dqer$qgd$1@news.datemas.de...
> On Wed, 25 Jun 2008 21:27:27 +0100, andon wrote:
>
>
> So many spritely "disabled" popping into our local Asda. Makes me want to
> throw up.
>
> -- 
>   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
> / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/
>

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:

> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment, 

mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.

> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas 
> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments 
> which are negatively nuanced.
> 
> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly 
> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)

you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
"disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
distressed.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 퍝, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>
> > You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>
> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>
> > mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
> > disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
> > which are negatively nuanced.
>
> > If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
> > and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>
> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
> distressed.
>
> --
>    ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>   / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
>  / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
and jaunt normally into the shop.
The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
to do all the shopping in one go.
Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
badge.

Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
obviously distressed out at all.

The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
someone shouldn't be using it.

Martin  <><

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
 wrote:
>On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>>
>> > You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>>
>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>
>> > mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
>> > disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
>> > which are negatively nuanced.
>>
>> > If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
>> > and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>
>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
>> distressed.

>Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>and jaunt normally into the shop.
>The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>to do all the shopping in one go.
>Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>badge.
>
>Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>obviously distressed out at all.
>
>The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>someone shouldn't be using it.
>
I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
since the carpark is on a slight incline.

Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
I get an electric scooter.

My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.

I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
shopping and am on my way out of the store.

x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>  wrote:
>> On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>>>
>>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>
>>>> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
>>>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
>>>> which are negatively nuanced.
>>>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
>>>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
>>> distressed.
> 
>> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>> and jaunt normally into the shop.
>> The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>> to do all the shopping in one go.
>> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>> badge.
>>
>> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>> obviously distressed out at all.
>>
>> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>> someone shouldn't be using it.
>>
> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
> 
> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
> I get an electric scooter.
> 
> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.
> 
> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
> shopping and am on my way out of the store.

The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.

I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
would think was enough to have to bear.

She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.

Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from 
older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself 
as she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live" 
and few people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she tells 
them that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself against 
such false accusations.

I would suggest to any person thinking of taking a "BB Abuser" to task 
that they hesitate - IMHO, it is better that 100 BB abusers are left for 
the authorities to deal with, than one genuine terminally ill person is 
falsely accused and vilified.

--
Sue

"Palindrome"  wrote in message 
news:ODnbk.180119$fz6.161687@fe08.news.easynews.com...
> x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>>  wrote:
>>> On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility 
>>>>> impairment,
>>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one 
>>>> distinguish
>>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>>
>>>>> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, 
>>>>> whereas
>>>>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of 
>>>>> impairments
>>>>> which are negatively nuanced.
>>>>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be 
>>>>> sprightly
>>>>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and 
>>>> jaunt
>>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are 
>>>> obviously
>>>> distressed.
>>
>>> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>>> and jaunt normally into the shop.
>>> The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>>> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>>> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>>> to do all the shopping in one go.
>>> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>>> badge.
>>>
>>> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>>> obviously distressed out at all.
>>>
>>> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>>> someone shouldn't be using it.
>>>
>> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
>> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
>> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
>> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
>> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
>> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
>> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
>> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>>
>> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
>> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
>> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
>> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
>> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
>> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
>> I get an electric scooter.
>>
>> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
>> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
>> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.
>>
>> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
>> shopping and am on my way out of the store.
>
> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>
> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or two 
> at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you would 
> think was enough to have to bear.

Thats horrible and I have sympathy for her.


> She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.
>
> Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from 
> older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself as 
> she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live" and few 
> people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she tells them 
> that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself against such 
> false accusations.


But having a year, a month or a day to live is not justification on its own 
to park in a disabled spot no matter how much sympathy we have for her and 
shouldnt be any part of the debate..
Of course we dont know her true mobility issues.

>
> I would suggest to any person thinking of taking a "BB Abuser" to task 
> that they hesitate - IMHO, it is better that 100 BB abusers are left for 
> the authorities to deal with, than one genuine terminally ill person is 
> falsely accused and vilified.
>
> --
> Sue

Burgerman wrote:
> "Palindrome"  wrote in message 
> news:ODnbk.180119$fz6.161687@fe08.news.easynews.com...
>> x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>>>  wrote:
>>>> On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility 
>>>>>> impairment,
>>>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one 
>>>>> distinguish
>>>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>>>
>>>>>> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, 
>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of 
>>>>>> impairments
>>>>>> which are negatively nuanced.
>>>>>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be 
>>>>>> sprightly
>>>>>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and 
>>>>> jaunt
>>>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are 
>>>>> obviously
>>>>> distressed.
>>>
>>>> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>>>> and jaunt normally into the shop.
>>>> The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>>>> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>>>> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>>>> to do all the shopping in one go.
>>>> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>>>> badge.
>>>>
>>>> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>>>> obviously distressed out at all.
>>>>
>>>> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>>>> someone shouldn't be using it.
>>>>
>>> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
>>> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
>>> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
>>> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
>>> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
>>> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
>>> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
>>> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>>>
>>> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
>>> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
>>> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
>>> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
>>> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
>>> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
>>> I get an electric scooter.
>>>
>>> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
>>> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
>>> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.
>>>
>>> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
>>> shopping and am on my way out of the store.
>>
>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>>
>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>> would think was enough to have to bear.
> 
> Thats horrible and I have sympathy for her.
> 
> 
>> She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.
>>
>> Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from 
>> older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself 
>> as she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live" 
>> and few people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she 
>> tells them that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself 
>> against such false accusations.
> 
> 
> But having a year, a month or a day to live is not justification on its 
> own to park in a disabled spot no matter how much sympathy we have for 
> her and shouldnt be any part of the debate..
> Of course we dont know her true mobility issues.
> 
Sorry, I took it as read. She is entitled to and has her own BB.

--
Sue

On 4 Jul, 12:15, Palindrome  wrote:
> x{yz}enophi...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2...@hotmail.com"
> >  wrote:
> >> On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 퍝, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>
> >>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
> >>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
> >>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>
> >>>> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
> >>>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
> >>>> which are negatively nuanced.
> >>>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
> >>>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
> >>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
> >>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
> >>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
> >>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
> >>> distressed.
>
> >> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> >> and jaunt normally into the shop.
> >> The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
> >> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> >> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
> >> to do all the shopping in one go.
> >> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> >> badge.
>
> >> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
> >> obviously distressed out at all.
>
> >> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> >> someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> > I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
> > disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
> > but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
> > Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
> > certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
> > all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
> > rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store> > since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>
> > Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
> > still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
> > breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
> > casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
> > itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
> > look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco> > I get an electric scooter.
>
> > My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
> > and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
> > because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop> > I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
> > shopping and am on my way out of the store.
>
> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>
> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or
> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you
> would think was enough to have to bear.
>
> She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.
>
> Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from
> older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself
> as she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live"
> and few people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she tells
> them that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself against
> such false accusations.
>
> I would suggest to any person thinking of taking a "BB Abuser" to task
> that they hesitate - IMHO, it is better that 100 BB abusers are left for
> the authorities to deal with, than one genuine terminally ill person is
> falsely accused and vilified.
>
> --
> Sue- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The few times I have been to the NEC, I've had to show the BB to go
through to disabled parking (still can be some way from the hall),
including showing the photograph to prove I'm the BB holder.
I will happily accept that from someone official from the organisation
whose car park I'm using. But don't bother showing photograph to
public shouting abuse.
One of the most abusive people I have come across......is another BB
user! Perhaps he felt more disabled than others.

Not all of us can use wheelchairs, not all of us are as physically
different as others.

Martin  <><

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:39:41 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:

> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
> 
>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment, 
> 
> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.

How so? Mobility impairment is a disability, but not all disabilities
involve mobility impairment. 

Isn't Mobility impairment the underlying reason for BB's to be issued?

> >> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas 
>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments 
>> which are negatively nuanced.
>> 
>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly 
>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
> 
> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
> distressed.

The corollary is that many with mobility problems can be selectively so. I
know of one or two who argue their right to a BB, but who can still choose
to be quite active if it suits them. 

The real problem is that BB's have become far too easily obtainable. 

-- 
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

"Palindrome"  wrote in message 
news:S0obk.141170$6q2.116792@fe03.news.easynews.com...
> Burgerman wrote:
>> "Palindrome"  wrote in message 
>> news:ODnbk.180119$fz6.161687@fe08.news.easynews.com...
>>> x{yz}enophil44@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>> On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility 
>>>>>>> impairment,
>>>>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one 
>>>>>> distinguish
>>>>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, 
>>>>>>> whereas
>>>>>>> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of 
>>>>>>> impairments
>>>>>>> which are negatively nuanced.
>>>>>>> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be 
>>>>>>> sprightly
>>>>>>> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>>>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>>>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>>>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and 
>>>>>> jaunt
>>>>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are 
>>>>>> obviously
>>>>>> distressed.
>>>>
>>>>> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>>>>> and jaunt normally into the shop.
>>>>> The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>>>>> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>>>>> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>>>>> to do all the shopping in one go.
>>>>> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>>>>> badge.
>>>>>
>>>>> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>>>>> obviously distressed out at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>>>>> someone shouldn't be using it.
>>>>>
>>>> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
>>>> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
>>>> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
>>>> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
>>>> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
>>>> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
>>>> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the 
>>>> store,
>>>> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>>>>
>>>> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
>>>> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
>>>> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
>>>> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
>>>> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
>>>> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large 
>>>> Tesco,
>>>> I get an electric scooter.
>>>>
>>>> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
>>>> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space 
>>>> is
>>>> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the 
>>>> shop.
>>>>
>>>> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
>>>> shopping and am on my way out of the store.
>>>
>>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>>>
>>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>>> would think was enough to have to bear.
>>
>> Thats horrible and I have sympathy for her.
>>
>>
>>> She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.
>>>
>>> Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from 
>>> older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself 
>>> as she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live" 
>>> and few people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she tells 
>>> them that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself against 
>>> such false accusations.
>>
>>
>> But having a year, a month or a day to live is not justification on its 
>> own to park in a disabled spot no matter how much sympathy we have for 
>> her and shouldnt be any part of the debate..
>> Of course we dont know her true mobility issues.
>>
> Sorry, I took it as read. She is entitled to and has her own BB.
>
> --
> Sue


Then she has a right!

But on the other hand I know several people that "have the right" to use 
disabled spots who can push me in a manual wheelchair 5 miles no problem... 
Mostl;y they dont exersize that right though. But it proves they give badges 
away far too easily.

I on the other hand come across loads of shiny silver mercs, big new 4x4s 
etc parked without a badge almost everywhere I go. They just dont care. My 
own disability T4 paraplegia + more means I have no choice but to use a 
large van with a ramp on the side door that allows me to drive from a 
wheelchair. Disabled parking bays are still useless to me anyway since I 
need 2 of them to give room to lower ramp and escape! If someone parks in 
the next one (as they invariably do even in an empty car park) I cant get 
back in. So I use roadside, end parking spaces, etc or park where no bays 
are marked - sideways...

On 4 Jul, 13:02, The Wanderer  wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:39:41 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:
> > On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>
> >> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>
> > mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
> > between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>
> How so? Mobility impairment is a disability, but not all disabilities
> involve mobility impairment.
>
> Isn't Mobility impairment the underlying reason for BB's to be issued?
>
> > >> mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
> >> disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
> >> which are negatively nuanced.
>
> >> If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
> >> and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>
> > you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
> > "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
> > logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
> > normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
> > distressed.
>
> The corollary is that many with mobility problems can be selectively so. I
> know of one or two who argue their right to a BB, but who can still choose
> to be quite active if it suits them.
>
> The real problem is that BB's have become far too easily obtainable.
>
> --
> the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Hmmm...speaking (or typing) as a BB holder, I'm glad they are
obtainable enough for me to get one.
If I had to wait for diagnosis first I'd still be waiting years later.

Martin  <><

Burgerman wrote:
<snip>
> But on the other hand I know several people that "have the right" to use 
> disabled spots who can push me in a manual wheelchair 5 miles no 
> problem... 

Yep, quite within the rules to. Although you may have to call out 
steering guidance (One category for entitlement is to be registered blind*).

* Not partially sighted.

> Mostl;y they dont exersize that right though. But it proves 
> they give badges away far too easily.

No, I don't accept that. Although it may have regional variations.
Hereabouts getting a BB is very, very difficult and GPS are very very 
reluctant to authorise them. A common reason stated is that it will 
discourage the applicant from attempting to walk as far as they 
can..even though that is far less than the entitlement threshold.

Far, far more common than someone "getting one too easily" is someone 
forging one (which is why they are being made harder to forge) or 
misusing some other person's BB.

In some BB countries it is a requirement that a non badge holder using a 
badge can be required to produce evidence that the badge holder is 
nearby. That would be a good idea here too, IMHO.

But I don't accept the idea that there are many BB holders that should 
not have them - I would state the exact opposite, that there are far too 
many people that should have them, that are struggling on without.

--
Sue

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:23:07 +0100, Burgerman wrote:

<snip>

> I on the other hand come across loads of shiny silver mercs, big new 4x4s 
> etc parked without a badge almost everywhere I go. They just dont care. My 
> own disability T4 paraplegia + more means I have no choice but to use a 
> large van with a ramp on the side door that allows me to drive from a 
> wheelchair. Disabled parking bays are still useless to me anyway since I 
> need 2 of them to give room to lower ramp and escape! If someone parks in 
> the next one (as they invariably do even in an empty car park) I cant get 
> back in. So I use roadside, end parking spaces, etc or park where no bays 
> are marked - sideways...

Notwithstanding your comments about being able to get in and out of your
vehicle, is there any reason why anyone who *has* to use a wheelchair or
scooter because they're either completely unable to walk or can't walk more
than half a dozen steps should have an automatic right to park in a marked
bay? 

-- 
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

"The Wanderer"  wrote in message 
news:10j9pogc84dgv$.18ejpsyv3hc3d.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 15:23:07 +0100, Burgerman wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I on the other hand come across loads of shiny silver mercs, big new 4x4s
>> etc parked without a badge almost everywhere I go. They just dont care. 
>> My
>> own disability T4 paraplegia + more means I have no choice but to use a
>> large van with a ramp on the side door that allows me to drive from a
>> wheelchair. Disabled parking bays are still useless to me anyway since I
>> need 2 of them to give room to lower ramp and escape! If someone parks in
>> the next one (as they invariably do even in an empty car park) I cant get
>> back in. So I use roadside, end parking spaces, etc or park where no bays
>> are marked - sideways...
>
> Notwithstanding your comments about being able to get in and out of your
> vehicle, is there any reason why anyone who *has* to use a wheelchair or
> scooter because they're either completely unable to walk or can't walk 
> more
> than half a dozen steps should have an automatic right to park in a marked
> bay?
>
> -- 
> the dot wanderer at tesco dot net
>


Yes if only because they are wider to allow wheelchair 
acess/transfer/entrance. Otherwise they cant get out or worse back in to get 
home.

On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 04:51:56 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
 wrote:

>Not all of us can use wheelchairs, not all of us are as physically
>different as others.

I can only use an electric wheelchair as my condition has stolen my
upper body strength.
-- 
"It's easier to get forgiveness than permission."
Rear Admiral "Amazing" Grace Hopper

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:


> Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> and jaunt normally into the shop.
> The trick is to see what they are like after a while.

You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.

> Many people have
> variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
> to do all the shopping in one go.

I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this and
they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I was
not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them. 

> Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> badge.

I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
 
> Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
> obviously distressed out at all.

I wonder what their secret is.
 
> The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> someone shouldn't be using it.

That's not all which gets abused. 

 
> Martin  <><

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:42:38 +0100, x{yz}enophil44 wrote:

> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>  wrote:
>>On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>>>
>>> > You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>>>
>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>
>>> > mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
>>> > disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
>>> > which are negatively nuanced.
>>>
>>> > If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
>>> > and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>>
>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
>>> distressed.
> 
>>Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>>and jaunt normally into the shop.
>>The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>>variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>>mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>>to do all the shopping in one go.
>>Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>>badge.
>>
>>Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>>obviously distressed out at all.
>>
>>The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>>someone shouldn't be using it.
>>
> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
> 
> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
> I get an electric scooter.
> 
> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.
> 
> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
> shopping and am on my way out of the store.

I also observe them when they get back into the car and most times they
are just as spritely. My wife does the shopping, not me you see.


-- 
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  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:02:11 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 09:39:41 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>> 
>>> You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment, 
>> 
>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
> 
> How so? Mobility impairment is a disability, but not all disabilities
> involve mobility impairment. 

You have left the original context of the discussion now.
 
<snip>

>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
>> distressed.
> 
> The corollary is that many with mobility problems can be selectively so. I
> know of one or two who argue their right to a BB, but who can still choose
> to be quite active if it suits them. 
> 
> The real problem is that BB's have become far too easily obtainable.

That may be so.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 +0000, Palindrome wrote:


> 
> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
> 
> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
> would think was enough to have to bear.

If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb. 


> 
> She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman.
> 
> Yet the abuse that she gets on a regular basis, almost invariably from 
> older people, often has her in tears. She cannot easily defend herself 
> as she cannot say, in front of the kids, "I only have a year to live" 
> and few people recognise the name of her medical condition, if she tells 
> them that. Added to which, she shouldn't have to defend herself against 
> such false accusations.

If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
a bb. 
 
> I would suggest to any person thinking of taking a "BB Abuser" to task 
> that they hesitate - IMHO, it is better that 100 BB abusers are left for 
> the authorities to deal with, than one genuine terminally ill person is 
> falsely accused and vilified.

But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!


-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 15:02:02 +0000, Palindrome wrote:

> Burgerman wrote:
> <snip>
>> But on the other hand I know several people that "have the right" to use 
>> disabled spots who can push me in a manual wheelchair 5 miles no 
>> problem... 
> 
> Yep, quite within the rules to. Although you may have to call out 
> steering guidance (One category for entitlement is to be registered blind*).
> 
> * Not partially sighted.
> 
>> Mostl;y they dont exersize that right though. But it proves 
>> they give badges away far too easily.
> 
> No, I don't accept that. Although it may have regional variations.
> Hereabouts getting a BB is very, very difficult and GPS are very very 
> reluctant to authorise them. A common reason stated is that it will 
> discourage the applicant from attempting to walk as far as they 
> can..even though that is far less than the entitlement threshold.
> 
> Far, far more common than someone "getting one too easily" is someone 
> forging one (which is why they are being made harder to forge) or 
> misusing some other person's BB.
> 
> In some BB countries it is a requirement that a non badge holder using a 
> badge can be required to produce evidence that the badge holder is 
> nearby. That would be a good idea here too, IMHO.
> 
> But I don't accept the idea that there are many BB holders that should 
> not have them - I would state the exact opposite, that there are far too 
> many people that should have them, that are struggling on without.

I'll tell you why a terminally ill (but otherwise fit) person gets a BB
and all the other benefits he can, it's a stuff all you I'm now going to
get what I can attitude. It's as simple as that. Compassion is an idiot
(in this case).

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:59:02 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:42:38 +0100, x{yz}enophil44 wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2306@hotmail.com"
>>  wrote:
>>>On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 +0100, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>>>>
>>>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
>>>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>>>>
>>>> > mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
>>>> > disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
>>>> > which are negatively nuanced.
>>>>
>>>> > If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
>>>> > and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>>>>
>>>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
>>>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
>>>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
>>>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
>>>> distressed.
>> 
>>>Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>>>and jaunt normally into the shop.
>>>The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
>>>variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>>>mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>>>to do all the shopping in one go.
>>>Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>>>badge.
>>>
>>>Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>>>obviously distressed out at all.
>>>
>>>The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>>>someone shouldn't be using it.
>>>
>> I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
>> disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
>> but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
>> Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
>> certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
>> all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
>> rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store,
>> since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>> 
>> Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
>> still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
>> breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
>> casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
>> itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
>> look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco,
>> I get an electric scooter.
>> 
>> My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
>> and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
>> because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop.
>> 
>> I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
>> shopping and am on my way out of the store.
> 
> I also observe them when they get back into the car and most times they
> are just as spritely. My wife does the shopping, not me you see.

Oh, then I hope she's not abusing your BB, presuming it's you who is
entitled to one, if you are remaining in the vehicle.


-- 
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:04:08 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:


I don't have a bb. 

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
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 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:06:55 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:

> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 +0000, Palindrome wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>> 
>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>> would think was enough to have to bear.
> 
> If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
> right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb. 

<snip>
> 
> If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
> a bb. 

<snip>

> But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!

You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
with only a short time left to live.



-- 
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:18:55 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:

> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:06:55 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 +0000, Palindrome wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>>> 
>>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>>> would think was enough to have to bear.
>> 
>> If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
>> right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb. 
> 
> <snip>
>> 
>> If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
>> a bb. 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!
> 
> You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
> nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
> with only a short time left to live.

But that was how her case was presented. She was normal in ever yway
except that she was to become terminally ill at some point in the future.

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>
> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.
>
> > Many people have
> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>
> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this and
> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I was
> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them.
>
> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> > badge.
>
> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>
> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
> > obviously distressed out at all.
>
> I wonder what their secret is.
>
> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> That's not all which gets abused.
>
>
>
> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
and so on.

Martin  <><

On 5 Jul, 09:59, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:42:38 퍝, x{yz}enophil44 wrote:
> > On Fri, 4 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700 (PDT), "mart2...@hotmail.com"
> >  wrote:
> >>On 4 Jul, 09:39, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> >>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 22:19:40 퍝, The Autist formerly known as wrote:
>
> >>> > You should be careful to distinguish disability from mobility impairment,
>
> >>> mobility impairment is a disability. your assertion that one distinguish
> >>> between them is impossible. your assertion is flawed.
>
> >>> > mobility impairment is justifiable cause for using a parking bay, whereas
> >>> > disability is the social construct arising out of any variety of impairments
> >>> > which are negatively nuanced.
>
> >>> > If ones impairment is not located corporeally one can indeed be sprightly
> >>> > and disabled, (but of course not entitled to a parking bay)
>
> >>> you seem to be saying that the mentally ill are not entitled to a
> >>> "disabled" parking bay. well i don't know about that - it would seem
> >>> logical. i'm talking about all those that get out of their cars and jaunt
> >>> normally into the shop. their numbers far outweigh those who are obviously
> >>> distressed.
>
> >>Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> >>and jaunt normally into the shop.
> >>The trick is to see what they are like after a while. Many people have
> >>variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> >>mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
> >>to do all the shopping in one go.
> >>Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> >>badge.
>
> >>Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
> >>obviously distressed out at all.
>
> >>The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> >>someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> > I can often look a bit jaunty myself when I go into a shop from a
> > disabled parking bay, apart from the obvious fact that I carry a stick,
> > but if anyone were to see me entering, for example, our gigantic local
> > Tesco after having had to park at the far end of the car-park I
> > certeinly shouldn't be jaunty.  In fact I had given up going there at
> > all until I got my Blue Badge, because I would have had to stop for a
> > rest three or four times between leaving the car and entering the store> > since the carpark is on a slight incline.
>
> > Apart from the fact that I have arthritis (hence the stick), I would
> > still need a BB because I have heart failure which makes me extremely
> > breathless after a few yards, but which isn't at all obvious to the
> > casual observer, since I always look very fit.  It doesn't manifest
> > itself much when I'm inside the shop, because I stop every few yards to
> > look at things, although if I'm visiting such a shop as the large Tesco> > I get an electric scooter.
>
> > My point is that people can look perfectly healthy even if they're not,
> > and the reason they look as though they maybe don't need the BB space is
> > because they *haven't* had to walk a long way uphill to get to the shop> > I can assure you that I appear far less jaunty when I've finished
> > shopping and am on my way out of the store.
>
> I also observe them when they get back into the car and most times they
> are just as spritely. My wife does the shopping, not me you see.
>
> --
>    ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>   / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
>  / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Great, they are just as sprightly.

So am I, after a few minutes rest at the checkout. Yet most of the
time I have to stop several times while walking round the shop.

As I've said before, hard to say that someone doesn't have mobility
problems.

Martin  <><

On 5 Jul, 16:19, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:18:55 퍝, The Wanderer wrote:
> > On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:06:55 퍝, Dead Paul wrote:
>
> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 퍍, Palindrome wrote:
>
> >>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>
> >>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or
> >>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you
> >>> would think was enough to have to bear.
>
> >> If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
> >> right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb.
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
> >> a bb.
>
> > <snip>
>
> >> But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!
>
> > You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
> > nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
> > with only a short time left to live.
>
> But that was how her case was presented. She was normal in ever yway
> except that she was to become terminally ill at some point in the future.
>
> --
>    ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>   / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
>  / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You don't become terminally ill at some point in the future. You are
diagnosed, you are terminally ill. You might live a week, you might
live 10 years.
Condition can be bad enough to get a BB, I have known a few cancer
patients that died within months who were gioven and indeed needed a
BB.

Martin  <><

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:36:39 -0700, mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:

> On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
>> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>>
>> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.
>>
>> > Many people have
>> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>>
>> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this and
>> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
>> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I was
>> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
>> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them.
>>
>> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>> > badge.
>>
>> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>>
>> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>> > obviously distressed out at all.
>>
>> I wonder what their secret is.
>>
>> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>>
>> That's not all which gets abused.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
> and so on.

They are all imo a bunch of racist no good failures.

> 
> Martin  <><

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

The Wanderer wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:06:55 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 +0000, Palindrome wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>>>
>>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>>> would think was enough to have to bear.
>> If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
>> right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb. 
> 
> <snip>
>> If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
>> a bb. 
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!
> 
> You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
> nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
> with only a short time left to live.
> 
> 
> 
I think that it is a rather unfortunate illustration of the point I was 
making -  it is very easy to make assumptions about people that appear 
healthy. It is very easy to continue to make such assumptions, even when 
told that the person in question is terminally ill.

The authorities, of course, "gave" her the BB because she fully met the 
requirements for one - not because someone took pity on her because of 
her life expectancy.

--
Sue

On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 17:13:22 GMT, Palindrome wrote:

> The Wanderer wrote:

<snip>

>> You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
>> nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
>> with only a short time left to live.
>> 
>> 
>> 
> I think that it is a rather unfortunate illustration of the point I was 
> making -  it is very easy to make assumptions about people that appear 
> healthy. It is very easy to continue to make such assumptions, even when 
> told that the person in question is terminally ill.

I can't help but think that DP is trolling, given the nature of some of his
posts.


-- 
the dot wanderer at tesco dot net

Dead Paul wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 12:18:55 +0100, The Wanderer wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 10:06:55 +0100, Dead Paul wrote:
>>
>>> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 11:15:59 +0000, Palindrome wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> The ones that suffer most from the BB Vigilantes are younger people.
>>>>
>>>> I know one mum with toddlers. She is terminally ill and has a year or 
>>>> two at most. She won't get to see her own children grow up. Which you 
>>>> would think was enough to have to bear.
>>> If she has no difficulty with personal mobility then she has no need or
>>> right (as I am lead to believe) to mobility payments/bb. 
>> <snip>
>>> If she can get around as well as any fit person then she is in no need of
>>> a bb. 
>> <snip>
>>
>>> But it's the "authorities" who gave her the bb!!
>> You seem to have jumped to some remarkable conclusions given that you know
>> nothing about the young woman's condition other than she is terminally ill
>> with only a short time left to live.
> 
> But that was how her case was presented. She was normal in ever yway
> except that she was to become terminally ill at some point in the future.
> 

"She has the appearance of a normal, healthy, fit, young woman"

In this case, the appearance is very, very deceptive. And she was 
already  terminally ill, not about to become terminally ill. She was 
about to become terminally dead at some point in the very near future.

Now it is natural to act on how things appear to be because most of the 
time appearance matches reality. There are times when it is best not to 
(eg lemonade bottles in the garden shed) - I am suggesting that the way 
one should react to the appearance of bb badge holders is another exception.


--
Sue

On 5 Jul, 17:11, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:36:39 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> >> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
> >> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>
> >> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.
>
> >> > Many people have
> >> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> >> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
> >> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>
> >> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this and
> >> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
> >> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I was
> >> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
> >> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them> >> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> >> > badge.
>
> >> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>
> >> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
> >> > obviously distressed out at all.
>
> >> I wonder what their secret is.
>
> >> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> >> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> >> That's not all which gets abused.
>
> >> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
> > and so on.
>
> They are all imo a bunch of racist no good failures.
>
>
>
> > Martin  <><
>
> --
>    ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>   / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
>  / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Maybe, but they will be more qualified and be on much higher income
than you.
Not bad for failures.

Martin  <><

wrote in message 
news:e0a62d7f-1f46-4e30-ab31-c944ce31f036@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
On 5 Jul, 17:11, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:36:39 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> >> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
> >> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>
> >> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.
>
> >> > Many people have
> >> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
> >> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel 
> >> > able
> >> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>
> >> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this 
> >> and
> >> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
> >> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I 
> >> was
> >> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
> >> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them.
>
> >> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> >> > badge.
>
> >> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>
> >> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who 
> >> > is
> >> > obviously distressed out at all.
>
> >> I wonder what their secret is.
>
> >> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> >> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> >> That's not all which gets abused.
>
> >> > Martin <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
> > and so on.
>
> They are all imo a bunch of racist no good failures.
>
>
>
> > Martin <><
>
> --
> ___ _______ ___ ___ ___ __ ____
> / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \ / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
> / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/ /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Maybe, but they will be more qualified and be on much higher income
than you.
Not bad for failures.



Maybe but in my experience many of those with degrees that I have met or 
employed were idiots. One "engineer" I know well works in a top job in 
aerospace. But I wouldnt trust him to swap a spark plug in the lawnmower. He 
would fit the wrong one, cross thread it, fail to gap it or crack it or 
something. He learned engineering from a book and is not a "natural" and has 
zero hands on experience. And as far as income goes, there is zero relevance 
there either since for eg a footballer can be on millions and most of them 
get confused if someone asks them their name.

Plus you dont know if the poster is earning good money or not.

On Sun, 06 Jul 2008 01:23:01 -0700, mart2306@hotmail.com wrote:

> On 5 Jul, 17:11, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:36:39 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
>> >> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
>> >> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>>
>> >> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then.
>>
>> >> > Many people have
>> >> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day,
>> >> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel able
>> >> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>>
>> >> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this and
>> >> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
>> >> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I was
>> >> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
>> >> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them.
>>
>> >> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
>> >> > badge.
>>
>> >> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>>
>> >> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who is
>> >> > obviously distressed out at all.
>>
>> >> I wonder what their secret is.
>>
>> >> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
>> >> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>>
>> >> That's not all which gets abused.
>>
>> >> > Martin  <><- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> > Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
>> > and so on.
>>
>> They are all imo a bunch of racist no good failures.
>>
>>
>>
>> > Martin  <><
>>
>> --
>>    ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
>>   / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
>>  / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
>> /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
> 
> Maybe, but they will be more qualified and be on much higher income
> than you.

They have a better income yes but I think my qualifications and field is
an order of magnitude out of their league. 


> Not bad for failures.

I can just imagine their job satisfaction :-)

> 
> Martin  <><

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On 6 Jul, 13:03, "Burgerman"  wrote:
>  wrote in message
>
> news:e0a62d7f-1f46-4e30-ab31-c944ce31f036@25g2000hsx.googlegroups.com...
> On 5 Jul, 17:11, Dead Paul <dead_p...@no.reply> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:36:39 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > > On 5 Jul, 09:52, David <Da...@nospam.thanks> wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 04 Jul 2008 03:18:52 -0700, mart2...@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >> > Yes, many disabled people with mobility problems can get out of cars
> > >> > and jaunt normally into the shop.
> > >> > The trick is to see what they are like after a while.
>
> > >> You should tell that to the "doctors" down the medical services then> > >> > Many people have
> > >> > variable conditions that have good days and bad days. On a bad day> > >> > mobility may be virtually impossible. On a good day they may feel
> > >> > able
> > >> > to do all the shopping in one go.
>
> > >> I've had a few tangles with medical services and a tribunal over this
> > >> and
> > >> they never struck me as interested in your hypothesis. In fact if I was
> > >> feeling better I was told to tell them about it they said because "I
> > >> was
> > >> not entitled to any money if I was not poorly". The silly ****ers would
> > >> have me bouncing around the system like a yo-yo. Stuff that - and them.
>
> > >> > Yet doesn't mean they aren't disabled or aren't in need of a blue
> > >> > badge.
>
> > >> I'm often more disabled and I can't even get ib.
>
> > >> > Come to think of it, its been ages since I've last seen someone who
> > >> > is
> > >> > obviously distressed out at all.
>
> > >> I wonder what their secret is.
>
> > >> > The BB scheme does get abused but I for one hesitate to say that
> > >> > someone shouldn't be using it.
>
> > >> That's not all which gets abused.
>
> > >> > Martin <><- Hide quoted text -
>
> > >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > > Different people, different experiences of doctors, medical services
> > > and so on.
>
> > They are all imo a bunch of racist no good failures.
>
> > > Martin <><
>
> > --
> > ___ _______ ___ ___ ___ __ ____
> > / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \ / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
> > / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
> > /____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/ /_/ |_\____/____/- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Maybe, but they will be more qualified and be on much higher income
> than you.
> Not bad for failures.
>
> Maybe but in my experience many of those with degrees that I have met or
> employed were idiots. One "engineer" I know well works in a top job in
> aerospace. But I wouldnt trust him to swap a spark plug in the lawnmower. He
> would fit the wrong one, cross thread it, fail to gap it or crack it or
> something. He learned engineering from a book and is not a "natural" and has
> zero hands on experience. And as far as income goes, there is zero relevance
> there either since for eg a footballer can be on millions and most of them
> get confused if someone asks them their name.
>
> Plus you dont know if the poster is earning good money or not.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Funny really, many of the people I know with degrees have been pretty
good at their job.
If using their degree. Can be as bad as the rest of us if going
outside their knowledge, skills and experience.
The degree I'm after has zero relevance for my profession - just more
and more employers seem to be specifying having a degree in the job
specification.

As for doctors and medical services - they do tend to be paid pretty
well. Usually better than most non-executives.
True, I don't know what he is earning. Could be on £15k a week, could
be on benefits for all I care. I won't however class them as racist no
good failures.

Martin  <><