Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
organisers. 

There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
whatsoever. 

What gives them the right to do that?

http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED28%20Jun%202008%2015%3A55%3A06%3A390

Illegal rave equipment destroyed

28 June 2008 15:55

Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the tough
line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized equipment
valued at more than £30,000.

A giant scrap grabber scooped up the costly speakers, sound amps and
electronic equipment and hoisted it into an industrial shredder at
recycling company Pearsons's centre at Thetford where they were rapidly
reduced to fragments.

Norfolk Police have a zero-tolerance to illegal gatherings in the county,
and a van belonging to the organiser of an unauthorised rave on farmland
was also crushed so it could not be used for unlawful purposes again.

Sgt Colin Barratt, of the Breckland area team, said: “We are sending out
a clear message to rave organisers that their actions will not be
tolerated. Knowing their equipment will be seized and disposed of will
hopefully make them think twice about holding their

illegal events and fully realise the cost.

“For the public and landowners it is further evidence of our commitment
to stopping raves from taking place anywhere in the county.”

All the equipment destroyed had been seized during the successful
disruption of three unlicensed events held at Drymere and Cockely Cley in
September and November last year. This also resulted in seven arrests,
with the people involved being banned from rave events for two years. All
of those arrested were also ordered to pay compensation to the landowners.

Sgt Barratt said the tough line is certainly paying dividends as
demonstrated in the western area of the county where he and his team are
based.

“Last year we had in the order of 35 raves in our part of the county.
This year, to date, we have only had three. The big speakers are £1,000
each and it costs £10,000 for a rig, which is the whole kit and caboodle,
so it is certainly hitting them in the pocket,” he stressed.

Sgt Barratt added that the police had offered the confiscated music
equipment to various charitable organisations but none had declared any
interest. “There comes to the point you have just got to shred it, to
prevent it being returned to people who might try and use it again at
other illegal rave events,” he explained.

The recycling firm's managing director, Jo Pearson, said the shredded
material would be put to good use. Salvaged metal will go for smelting and
the wood will be sent to a power plant for fuel.

Phil Stovell wrote:
> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
> organisers.
>
> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
> whatsoever.
>
> What gives them the right to do that?
>
> http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED28%20Jun%202008%2015%3A55%3A06%3A390
>
> Illegal rave equipment destroyed
>
> 28 June 2008 15:55
>
> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
>
> A giant scrap grabber scooped up the costly speakers, sound amps and
> electronic equipment and hoisted it into an industrial shredder at
> recycling company Pearsons's centre at Thetford where they were
> rapidly reduced to fragments.
>
> Norfolk Police have a zero-tolerance to illegal gatherings in the
> county, and a van belonging to the organiser of an unauthorised rave
> on farmland was also crushed so it could not be used for unlawful
> purposes again.
>
> Sgt Colin Barratt, of the Breckland area team, said: "We are sending
> out a clear message to rave organisers that their actions will not be
> tolerated. Knowing their equipment will be seized and disposed of will
> hopefully make them think twice about holding their
>
> illegal events and fully realise the cost.
>
> "For the public and landowners it is further evidence of our
> commitment to stopping raves from taking place anywhere in the
> county."
>
> All the equipment destroyed had been seized during the successful
> disruption of three unlicensed events held at Drymere and Cockely
> Cley in September and November last year. This also resulted in seven
> arrests, with the people involved being banned from rave events for
> two years. All of those arrested were also ordered to pay
> compensation to the landowners.
>
> Sgt Barratt said the tough line is certainly paying dividends as
> demonstrated in the western area of the county where he and his team
> are based.
>
> "Last year we had in the order of 35 raves in our part of the county.
> This year, to date, we have only had three. The big speakers are
> £1,000 each and it costs £10,000 for a rig, which is the whole kit
> and caboodle, so it is certainly hitting them in the pocket," he
> stressed.
>
> Sgt Barratt added that the police had offered the confiscated music
> equipment to various charitable organisations but none had declared
> any interest. "There comes to the point you have just got to shred
> it, to prevent it being returned to people who might try and use it
> again at other illegal rave events," he explained.
>
> The recycling firm's managing director, Jo Pearson, said the shredded
> material would be put to good use. Salvaged metal will go for
> smelting and the wood will be sent to a power plant for fuel.

Section 64, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_8#pt5-pb2-l1g64

"Janitor of Lunacy"  wrote in message 
news:tq7ak.140961$8k.62545@newsfe18.ams2...
> Phil Stovell wrote:
>> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
>> organisers.
>>
>> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
>> whatsoever.
>>
>> What gives them the right to do that?

SNIP

>>
>> The recycling firm's managing director, Jo Pearson, said the shredded
>> material would be put to good use. Salvaged metal will go for
>> smelting and the wood will be sent to a power plant for fuel.
>
> Section 64, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994:
>
> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_8#pt5-pb2-l1g64
>
>

Whilst the equipment was used for a rave, it certainly had lots of legal 
uses, so if I were on the Norfolk Police Finance Committee I think I would 
want to know why the stuff wasn't auctioned.

If they seize cars, only the ones worth less than their scrap value are 
actually scrapped (and even then they will be parted out).

> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
> organisers.
>
> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
> whatsoever.
>
> What gives them the right to do that?

The Police have powers under various parts of public order legislation to 
sieze equipment at illegal raves. The owners can apply to have it returned 
but if they don't then the Police have powers to dispose of the goods as 
they see fit. All legal and above board.

Peter Crosland

Phil Stovell wrote:
> 
> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
> organisers.
> 
> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
> whatsoever.
> 
> What gives them the right to do that?
> 
> http://new.edp24.co.uk/content/news/story.aspx?brand=EDPOnline&category=News&tBrand=edponline&tCategory=news&itemid=NOED28%20Jun%202008%2015%3A55%3A06%3A390
> 
> Illegal rave equipment destroyed
> 
> 28 June 2008 15:55
> 
> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the tough
> line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized equipment
> valued at more than £30,000.
> 
> A giant scrap grabber scooped up the costly speakers, sound amps and
> electronic equipment and hoisted it into an industrial shredder at
> recycling company Pearsons's centre at Thetford where they were rapidly
> reduced to fragments.
> 
> Norfolk Police have a zero-tolerance to illegal gatherings in the county,
> and a van belonging to the organiser of an unauthorised rave on farmland
> was also crushed so it could not be used for unlawful purposes again.
> 
> Sgt Colin Barratt, of the Breckland area team, said: “We are sending out
> a clear message to rave organisers that their actions will not be
> tolerated. Knowing their equipment will be seized and disposed of will
> hopefully make them think twice about holding their
> 
> illegal events and fully realise the cost.
> 
> “For the public and landowners it is further evidence of our commitment
> to stopping raves from taking place anywhere in the county.”
> 
> All the equipment destroyed had been seized during the successful
> disruption of three unlicensed events held at Drymere and Cockely Cley in
> September and November last year. This also resulted in seven arrests,
> with the people involved being banned from rave events for two years. All
> of those arrested were also ordered to pay compensation to the landowners.
> 
> Sgt Barratt said the tough line is certainly paying dividends as
> demonstrated in the western area of the county where he and his team are
> based.
> 
> “Last year we had in the order of 35 raves in our part of the county.
> This year, to date, we have only had three. The big speakers are £1,000
> each and it costs £10,000 for a rig, which is the whole kit and caboodle,
> so it is certainly hitting them in the pocket,” he stressed.
> 
> Sgt Barratt added that the police had offered the confiscated music
> equipment to various charitable organisations but none had declared any
> interest. “There comes to the point you have just got to shred it, to
> prevent it being returned to people who might try and use it again at
> other illegal rave events,” he explained.
> 
> The recycling firm's managing director, Jo Pearson, said the shredded
> material would be put to good use. Salvaged metal will go for smelting and
> the wood will be sent to a power plant for fuel.

They probably have to destroy the equipment, otherwise they could be 
accused of profiteering. It follows therefore that nothing should be
recycled. Who gets the money for the metal and wood? It is really not 
on that anyone should make money out of this.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
 wrote:

>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.

What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
even though they had done nothing wrong.

-- 
Alasdair.

"Alasdair"  wrote in message 
news:546i64h1bgads9684eo0b05o3amlm2f2r5@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
>  wrote:
>
>>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
>>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
>>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
>
> What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
> unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
> even though they had done nothing wrong.
>
I seem to have read somewhere that they have to return it to the leasing 
company.

Phil Stovell  wrote:

> Sgt Barratt added that the police had offered the confiscated music
> equipment to various charitable organisations but none had declared any
> interest. "There comes to the point you have just got to shred it, to
> prevent it being returned to people who might try and use it again at
> other illegal rave events," he explained.

The police really should burn down houses that have been used as
brothels too, in case other pimps returned there. And any illegal
protests on public roads should result in the roads being torn up, lest
other illegal protests take place there.

> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the tough
> line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized equipment
> valued at more than £30,000.

So those naughty ravers essentially get fined £30,000 for trespass and
littering and making a lot of noise. So good to see proportionate
penalties, when assaults and criminal damage, things that actually hurt
someone, result in an Asbo and a stern telling off.

-- 
Pd

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:07:02 +0100, "mert1639"  wrote:

>
>"Alasdair"  wrote in message 
>news:546i64h1bgads9684eo0b05o3amlm2f2r5@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
>>  wrote:
>>
>>>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
>>>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
>>>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
>>
>> What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
>> unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
>> even though they had done nothing wrong.
>>
>I seem to have read somewhere that they have to return it to the leasing 
>company. 

Which simply means that, as soon as the rave organisers cotton on to that,
they'll ALL be leasing equipment - from each other even, or from shell
companies. No more gear getting seized.

Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'

"Mike Ross"  wrote in message 
news:sb9i64l6f615rl1ukkdg2mju6uuapb8k2r@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:07:02 +0100, "mert1639"  
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Alasdair"  wrote in message
>>news:546i64h1bgads9684eo0b05o3amlm2f2r5@4ax.com...
>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
>>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
>>>>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
>>>>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
>>>
>>> What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
>>> unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
>>> even though they had done nothing wrong.
>>>
>>I seem to have read somewhere that they have to return it to the leasing
>>company.
>
> Which simply means that, as soon as the rave organisers cotton on to that,
> they'll ALL be leasing equipment - from each other even, or from shell
> companies. No more gear getting seized.
>
That's an old trick.
There are plenty of cases of dodgy 'tradesmen' leasing all their possesions 
(e.g. tools and van) from their wife, thus not having any assests to be 
taken in the event of the 'business' going belly up.

mert1639 wrote:
> 
> "Mike Ross"  wrote in message
> news:sb9i64l6f615rl1ukkdg2mju6uuapb8k2r@4ax.com...
> > On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:07:02 +0100, "mert1639" 
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>"Alasdair"  wrote in message
> >>news:546i64h1bgads9684eo0b05o3amlm2f2r5@4ax.com...
> >>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
> >>>>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
> >>>>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
> >>>
> >>> What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
> >>> unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
> >>> even though they had done nothing wrong.
> >>>
> >>I seem to have read somewhere that they have to return it to the leasing
> >>company.
> >
> > Which simply means that, as soon as the rave organisers cotton on to that,
> > they'll ALL be leasing equipment - from each other even, or from shell
> > companies. No more gear getting seized.
> >
> That's an old trick.
> There are plenty of cases of dodgy 'tradesmen' leasing all their possesions
> (e.g. tools and van) from their wife, thus not having any assests to be
> taken in the event of the 'business' going belly up.

Gives the wife a strong position, I would have thought, in case she wants to
dump hubby for the milkman.

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:11:19 +0100, Peter Crosland wrote:

>> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
>> organisers.
>>
>> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
>> whatsoever.
>>
>> What gives them the right to do that?
> 
> The Police have powers under various parts of public order legislation to
> sieze equipment at illegal raves. The owners can apply to have it returned
> but if they don't then the Police have powers to dispose of the goods as
> they see fit. All legal and above board.

Whose board?

> 
> Peter Crosland

-- 
   ___  _______   ___    ___  ___  __  ____
  / _ \/ __/ _ | / _ \  / _ \/ _ |/ / / / /
 / // / _// __ |/ // / / ___/ __ / /_/ / /__
/____/___/_/ |_/____/ /_/  /_/ |_\____/____/

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:06:07 +0100, peterd.news@gmail.invalid (Pd)
wrote:

>Phil Stovell  wrote:
>
>> Sgt Barratt added that the police had offered the confiscated music
>> equipment to various charitable organisations but none had declared any
>> interest. "There comes to the point you have just got to shred it, to
>> prevent it being returned to people who might try and use it again at
>> other illegal rave events," he explained.
>
>The police really should burn down houses that have been used as
>brothels too, in case other pimps returned there. And any illegal
>protests on public roads should result in the roads being torn up, lest
>other illegal protests take place there.
>
>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the tough
>> line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized equipment
>> valued at more than £30,000.
>
>So those naughty ravers essentially get fined £30,000 for trespass and
>littering and making a lot of noise. So good to see proportionate
>penalties, when assaults and criminal damage, things that actually hurt
>someone, result in an Asbo and a stern telling off.

Well, there's no one more effective than the police to exacerbate a
situation. Think: table legs. Think: looking foreign.

MM

Thanks for the replies. It seems the good old police state marches
unstoppably forward, truncheon and CS gas in hand.

mert1639 wrote:
> "Mike Ross"  wrote in message 
> news:sb9i64l6f615rl1ukkdg2mju6uuapb8k2r@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:07:02 +0100, "mert1639"  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Alasdair"  wrote in message
>>> news:546i64h1bgads9684eo0b05o3amlm2f2r5@4ax.com...
>>>> On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 17:00:30 +0100, "Janitor of Lunacy"
>>>>  wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Organisers of illegal raves were today given a stark reminder of the
>>>>>> tough line taken by Norfolk police with the destruction of seized
>>>>>> equipment valued at more than £30,000.
>>>> What is the position if the equipment is leased?  It would be very
>>>> unfair on the leasing company to have their property legally destroyed
>>>> even though they had done nothing wrong.
>>>>
>>> I seem to have read somewhere that they have to return it to the leasing
>>> company.
>> Which simply means that, as soon as the rave organisers cotton on to that,
>> they'll ALL be leasing equipment - from each other even, or from shell
>> companies. No more gear getting seized.
>>
> That's an old trick.
> There are plenty of cases of dodgy 'tradesmen' leasing all their possesions 
> (e.g. tools and van) from their wife, thus not having any assests to be 
> taken in the event of the 'business' going belly up. 
> 
> 
Tools of the trade and a reasonable vehicle are exempt from bankrupcy anyway

R. Mark Clayton wrote:
> "Janitor of Lunacy"  wrote in message 
> news:tq7ak.140961$8k.62545@newsfe18.ams2...
>> Phil Stovell wrote:
>>> Police have destroyed £30,000 worth of equipment seized from rave
>>> organisers.
>>>
>>> There's no mention of a court order, or, indeed, any court action
>>> whatsoever.
>>>
>>> What gives them the right to do that?
> 
> SNIP
> 
>>> The recycling firm's managing director, Jo Pearson, said the shredded
>>> material would be put to good use. Salvaged metal will go for
>>> smelting and the wood will be sent to a power plant for fuel.
>> Section 64, Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994:
>>
>> http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1994/ukpga_19940033_en_8#pt5-pb2-l1g64
>>
>>
> 
> Whilst the equipment was used for a rave, it certainly had lots of legal 
> uses, so if I were on the Norfolk Police Finance Committee I think I would 
> want to know why the stuff wasn't auctioned.

I guess if auctioned it would reach only a tenth of its value and the 
prime candidates to buy it would be the same organisers.
At least this puts it beyond their use.

> 
> If they seize cars, only the ones worth less than their scrap value are 
> actually scrapped (and even then they will be parted out). 
> 
>