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date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:16:03 GMT,    group: uk.music.guitar        back       
What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k

Luke

http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:48:16 +1100   author:   Lu R

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On 23 Oct, 14:48, "Lu R"  wrote:
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima


Try this selection from Larry Carlton. One of the best around 2:30 but
I also like 3:08.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMArrSjSjOo

Green
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:01:28 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Mr. Green

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On 23 Oct, 14:48, "Lu R"  wrote:
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima

This one's a favourite. Try and ignore the naf video, solos at 2:30.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKpazeA5L8

Green
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Mr. Green

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On 10/23/2009 8:48 AM, Lu R wrote:

> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k

Starts at about 50 seconds and ends at 9:23.  :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxkzluURe7g

-- 
Steve
..............................
   P R O J E C T - 4 3
http://www.project-43.com/
..............................
See the new Project-43 Forums
 at http://project-43.com/bb
      Or follow us at
http://twitter.com/project43
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 09:33:03 -0500   author:   Steve M. Mann

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:48:16 +1100, "Lu R" wrote:

>Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUg9RWfPxwg

The whole song.
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:34:46 -0400   author:   Meat Plow

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Oct 23, 9:48 am, "Lu R"  wrote:
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima


Already posted one of my favorite leads in another thread, but here's
a reprise (lead starts at 3:15...oooh, creepy...:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_Up05Y6TiM

As for UFO with Michael Schenker...hard to find a bad one in the lot.
This is one of my favorites of his; I like how the song builds up, he
then unleashes this ferocious yet melodic solo, and just when you
think it's done he comes back with more (lead starts at 2:28):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4caMVHA14Po

One more example of a well-crafted solo that is in 4 distinct parts
yet meshes well together, and tells a story.  No fireworks or
anything, but very melodic, articulate and memorable (lead at 3:30):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP0oeshiQ9g

Finally, my two favorite Brian Robertson solos, both because of how
passionate they sound & tasty use of wah (lead at 2:03 for Johnny The
Fox and 0:54 for Don't Believe A Word)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilxP8As14dM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w8jTuopqHQ&feature=related

-d
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:41:56 -0700 (PDT)   author:   dvaoa

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Please don't cross post, guys.
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:50:12 +0100   author:   George Weston

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Oct 23, 10:50 am, "George Weston" 
wrote:
> Please don't cross post, guys.

My apologies, I'll keep mine in AG.

-d
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 08:03:58 -0700 (PDT)   author:   dvaoa

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
http://electricguitarist.net/2009/03/26/joe-bonamassa-with-danny-gatton-youtube/
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:20:00 -0700 (PDT)   author:   :-)

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
> Lu R  wrote:

> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
> 
> Luke
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
> 
> 


I keep going back to classic stuff (yeah well it's all new to me).

And one of my favorites is the short lead break in
the Kinks "You Really Got Me"   real trashy sounding
but fits the song perfectly.  I think it was probably
ahead of its time compared to other stuff around then.

I really don't care much about listening to technician playing
or fast metronome fiascos
it's all about how it fits perfectly into the song. (imho)

If you want technician then listen to Al Dimeola
anything else is.. well...  less. (as far as technical skills go)
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:20:35 -0400   author:   Squier

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Oct 23, 6:48 am, "Lu R"  wrote:
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima

What does it for me is Robben Ford - either "Help the Poor", "Talk to
Your Daughter", "Indianola", or, "Nothin' but the Blues".
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:42:57 -0700 (PDT)   author:   dugjustdug

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Meat Plow  wrote:
> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:48:16 +1100, "Lu R" wrote:
>
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUg9RWfPxwg
>
> The whole song.

Oh yeah, jeez, when did that album come out, '78?  I think I spent three
months trying to learn all the licks from it.  "Dead On Time" is a cool
song, and I can actually play the thing.  (Of course the lead break is
multitracked so I can only play one part at a time!)

Fat bottomed girls, anyone? ;-)
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:23:56 -0400   author:   RichL

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Lu R wrote:
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
> 
> Luke
> 
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
> 
> 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk

Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
about 1:50 to 2:18.

--
Les Cargill
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:50:23 -0400   author:   Les Cargill

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:20:35 -0400, Squier  wrote:

>> Lu R  wrote:
>
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>> 
>> Luke
>> 
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>> 
>> 
>
>
>I keep going back to classic stuff (yeah well it's all new to me).
>
>And one of my favorites is the short lead break in
>the Kinks "You Really Got Me"   real trashy sounding
>but fits the song perfectly.  I think it was probably
>ahead of its time compared to other stuff around then.
>
>I really don't care much about listening to technician playing
>or fast metronome fiascos
>it's all about how it fits perfectly into the song. (imho)
>
>If you want technician then listen to Al Dimeola
>anything else is.. well...  less. (as far as technical skills go)

IIRC the solo in 'You Really Got Me' was played by a very young Jimmy
Page - but my memory plays tricks on me these days.

Pete
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:31:17 GMT   author:   unknown

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Squier wrote:
>> Lu R  wrote:
> 
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>
>> Luke
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>
>>
> 
> 
> I keep going back to classic stuff (yeah well it's all new to me).
> 
> And one of my favorites is the short lead break in
> the Kinks "You Really Got Me"   real trashy sounding
> but fits the song perfectly.  I think it was probably
> ahead of its time compared to other stuff around then.

Ah yes... one of Jimmy Page's finest... ?
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:01:08 +0100   author:   JNugent

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:22:42 -0700 (PDT), "Mr. Green"
 wrote:

>On 23 Oct, 14:48, "Lu R"  wrote:
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>
>> Luke
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>
>This one's a favourite. Try and ignore the naf video, solos at 2:30.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsKpazeA5L8
>

Sweet.

Couldn't find a link on YouTube to one of my faves: studio version of
Let It Rain by Eric Clapton - solo beginning at 1:34.  Smooth as
butter.
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:37:00 -0500   author:   unknown

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
JNugent  wrote:
> Squier wrote:
>>> Lu R  wrote:
>>
>>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>>
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> I keep going back to classic stuff (yeah well it's all new to me).
>>
>> And one of my favorites is the short lead break in
>> the Kinks "You Really Got Me"   real trashy sounding
>> but fits the song perfectly.  I think it was probably
>> ahead of its time compared to other stuff around then.
>
> Ah yes... one of Jimmy Page's finest... ?

Urban legend, incorrect.  Dave Davies played the solo all by himself.

Page played *rhythm* guitar on the Kinks' first LP because Ray Davies
wanted to concentrate on his singing.

Page made a claim about playing the lead on the song back in the '70s.
He has long since retracted it.
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:32:08 -0400   author:   RichL

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Les Cargill  wrote:
> Lu R wrote:
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>
>> Luke
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>
>>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk
>
> Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
> about 1:50 to 2:18.

I often wondered what guitar was used to play that part; it's always
sounded like a Gretsch to me but it sure doesn't look like one in that
clip!  Looks like it could be a Tele...
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:35:04 -0400   author:   RichL

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
RichL wrote:
> Les Cargill  wrote:
>> Lu R wrote:
>>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>>
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk
>>
>> Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
>> about 1:50 to 2:18.
> 
> I often wondered what guitar was used to play that part; it's always
> sounded like a Gretsch to me but it sure doesn't look like one in that
> clip!  Looks like it could be a Tele...
> 
> 


Yerp. They have a high degree of interchangeability; I see
pictures of Luther Perkins with a Gretsch, then a Tele, and
he always sounds the same.

Eliott Easton r00lz. New Wave song with Scotty Moore inflected
solo - instant timeless.

--
Les Cargill
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:38:03 -0400   author:   Les Cargill

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
"Les Cargill"  wrote in message 
news:hbtbug$t5e$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> Lu R wrote:
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>
>> Luke
>>
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>
>>
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk
>
> Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
> about 1:50 to 2:18.

Love EE... how 'bout Ric's adam's apple?  Sick!
__
Steve
.
date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:58:19 -0500   author:   Stephen Cowell

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Stephen Cowell wrote:
> "Les Cargill"  wrote in message 
> news:hbtbug$t5e$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> Lu R wrote:
>>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>>
>>> Luke
>>>
>>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>>>
>>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk
>>
>> Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
>> about 1:50 to 2:18.
> 
> Love EE... how 'bout Ric's adam's apple?  Sick!
> __
> Steve
> .
> 
> 

Yeah. Wasn't really trying to emphasize that, tho :)

--
Les Cargill
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:00:50 -0400   author:   Les Cargill

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Lu R wrote on 24/10/2009 :
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima

Rock & Roll Baby!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1TDN67ibdo
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:55:10 +1100   author:   Arlowe

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On 10/23/2009 5:50 PM, Les Cargill wrote:

> Lu R wrote:
>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>> 
>> Luke
>> 
>> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>> 
>> 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swunpZMkZAk
> 
> Starts about 1:00 for a few seconds, then again at
> about 1:50 to 2:18.

Another great "Cars" solo. Another one I can hum from start to finish. 
Really sticks with you (at 1:20):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eq-yoorI7lo

-- 
Steve
..............................
   P R O J E C T - 4 3
   http://www.project-43.com/
   The Future of Classic Rock
..............................
Download the "Ticket to Infinity"
Now at your favorite download site!
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 07:26:34 -0500   author:   Steve M. Mann

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:23:56 -0400, "RichL"
wrote:

>Meat Plow  wrote:
>> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:48:16 +1100, "Lu R" wrote:
>>
>>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUg9RWfPxwg
>>
>> The whole song.
>
>Oh yeah, jeez, when did that album come out, '78?  I think I spent three
>months trying to learn all the licks from it.  "Dead On Time" is a cool
>song, and I can actually play the thing.  (Of course the lead break is
>multitracked so I can only play one part at a time!)
>
>Fat bottomed girls, anyone? ;-)
>

I could play it back 20 years ago. I have a  harmonizer patch on the
TubFex that can mimic the famous Brian May multi tracked harmonies
fairly well. Now if it just had a patch that could mimic his playing
ability too :-p
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 12:37:03 -0400   author:   Meat Plow

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Meat Plow  wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009 18:23:56 -0400, "RichL"
> wrote:
>
>> Meat Plow  wrote:
>>> On Sat, 24 Oct 2009 00:48:16 +1100, "Lu R" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>>>>
>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>>>
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUg9RWfPxwg
>>>
>>> The whole song.
>>
>> Oh yeah, jeez, when did that album come out, '78?  I think I spent
>> three months trying to learn all the licks from it.  "Dead On Time"
>> is a cool song, and I can actually play the thing.  (Of course the
>> lead break is multitracked so I can only play one part at a time!)
>>
>> Fat bottomed girls, anyone? ;-)
>>
>
> I could play it back 20 years ago. I have a  harmonizer patch on the
> TubFex that can mimic the famous Brian May multi tracked harmonies
> fairly well. Now if it just had a patch that could mimic his playing
> ability too :-p

I've got the Digitech Brian May pedal, and one of the settings on that
does three-part chord harmonizing, push the expression pedal forward and
you get a major chord, backward gives you a minor.  The limitation is
that the root is always at the bottom with third and fifth above it in
pitch.  So it works for some things and not for others.

Now that I've got a multitrack recording setup, one thing I love to do
is harmonizing the old-fashioned way, one track at a time.
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 13:57:10 -0400   author:   RichL

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
"Lu R"  wrote in message 
news:4ae1b41e$0$5425$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Im gonna start this one off with UFO, Rock Bottom...GL all!!
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lC7E22Fme5k
>
> Luke
>
> http://www.soundclick.com/pentultima
>
>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JD5VT2DHDM&feature=related

Pretty much my favorite solo of all time. Watch out though the asshole that 
posted this messed with the levels after the solo.
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 15:58:09 -0400   author:   Monster Zero

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
It would seem the Guardian has started doing what we've been doing for
years....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/musicblog/2009/oct/22/readers-recommend-songs-super-solos

Pete
date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 03:26:58 GMT   author:   unknown

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
> Page made a claim about playing the lead on the song back in the '70s.
> He has long since retracted it.

Along with a lot of other stuff he originally tried to take credit for.
date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 20:39:03 -0700 (PDT)   author:   Learnwell

Re: What's the best lead guitar break you can link to to hear?   
Learnwell  wrote:
>> Page made a claim about playing the lead on the song back in the
>> '70s. He has long since retracted it.
>
> Along with a lot of other stuff he originally tried to take credit
> for.

Like songs?
date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:13:20 -0400   author:   RichL

GAS Advice Needed - 5W all valve amp/combo   
Hi, all.  My name is David and I'm a GASaholic.

Have lost the battle, and can no longer resist the pull of tiny valve 
goodness for home use.  I like the sound of the Blackstar, but at 300 
notes, may be a little expensive.

Can anyone make a recommendation - looking for that classic American 
overdrive tone at usable volumes.  In fact will there be any at Buxton?


-- 
David Haggett
Linux user since 01/01/2003
Email: david<at>haggett<dot>demon<dot>co<dot>uk
date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 13:16:03 GMT   author:   David Haggett

Re: GAS Advice Needed - 5W all valve amp/combo   
On Oct 25, 1:16 pm, David Haggett 
wrote:
> Hi, all.  My name is David and I'm a GASaholic.
>
> Have lost the battle, and can no longer resist the pull of tiny valve
> goodness for home use.  I like the sound of the Blackstar, but at 300
> notes, may be a little expensive.
>
> Can anyone make a recommendation - looking for that classic American
> overdrive tone at usable volumes.  In fact will there be any at Buxton?
>

I happened to be in CC Music (THE BEST music shop in Scotland) at
lunchtime collecting my reworked Gordon Smith GS1 (more on this in a
separate post)  and in order to test the mods I've had them make to
the guitar I had to plug it in and try it.  So I used a Blackstar
HT5............. oh dear. I very nearly had a serious accident with my
wallet.   Even though I only did 5 minutes of guitar checking messing
around in the shop I was seriously impressed.

Dave, disregard anything I said about other 5W valve amps (unless you
want to buy a 2nd hand Nanovalve.....)  and get yourself down to a
shop to try the Blackstar HT5.

cheers

Andrew_S
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 07:30:46 -0700 (PDT)   author:   andrew_s

Re: GAS Advice Needed - 5W all valve amp/combo   
"andrew_s"  wrote in message 
news:0fd56feb-dde1-4f62-bd89-206260a521e0@n35g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...

>>Dave, disregard anything I said about other 5W valve amps (unless you
want to buy a 2nd hand Nanovalve.....)  and get yourself down to a
shop to try the Blackstar HT5.<<

Better still try an HT5H through a 4x12, just don't expect the HT5 to sound 
the same.

icarusi
--

remove the 00 to reply
date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:01:11 -0700   author:   icarusi

Re: GAS Advice Needed - 5W all valve amp/combo   
"Nige"  wrote in message 
news:snowman1-1D1F7B.09403026102009@news.zen.co.uk...
> In article <34%Em.42425$XC7.21500@newsfe05.ams2>,
> David Haggett  wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:29:49 -0700, Ross Edwards wrote:
>>
>> >> Have lost the battle, and can no longer resist the pull of tiny valve
>> >> goodness for home use. Â I like the sound of the Blackstar, but at 300
>> >> notes, may be a little expensive.
>> >>
>> >> Can anyone make a recommendation - looking for that classic American
>> >> overdrive tone at usable volumes. Â In fact will there be any at 
>> >> Buxton?
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Go on - get the Blackstar   Buy it on "Take it away" and get another
>> > guitar into the bargain
>> >
>> > Seriously, I'll be bringing mine to Buxton; feel free to give it a
>> > blast.
>>
>>
>> In spite of the non-performing nature of Buxton for me this year, I might
>> just bring the Gibson and try it out, Ross.
>>
>> George, thanks, but 15 Watts will be too much (neighbours just got a new
>> baby) and the headphone out on the Blackstar.
>
> David,
>
> an Orange Tiny Terror has a 15W/7W switchable output. It's not a US tone
> amp thought. It is a 70s Brit rock amp.
>
> Nige.

And it is QUITE LOUD. But sweet sounding.

Jose
-- 
www.mcnach.com

Richt Hoat Chillis:
http://www.myspace.com/rhcpscot  - Bass: OLP MM2
http://www.freakmusic.co.uk/scotland/bands/the_richt_hoat_chillis

www.myspace.com/purplenoise68
-
Current favourite guitar: Fender 'Sambora' Stratocaster
Current favourite bass: Warwick Corvette $$
date: Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:33:52 -0000   author:   Jose de las Heras

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