I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
noodling.
On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
the one played. The buzz decreases as I increase the pressure on the
string.
As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
it is this that's causing the buzz.
http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg

Any input on this would be much appreciated

Cheers


-
steve <AT> steveevans <DOT> org
-

Steve Evans wrote:
> I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
> amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
> noodling.
> On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
> that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
> the one played. The buzz decreases as I increase the pressure on the
> string.
> As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
> slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
> theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
> it is this that's causing the buzz.
> http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg
> 
> Any input on this would be much appreciated

Wear which reduces the height of a fret increases the propensity of the 
string to buzz on making contact with subsequent frets (particularly with the 
next fret or any others which are aberrantly high). This is more marked with 
a low action. A fretwear pattern which might not trouble an acoustic player 
can be painful on an electric with a close action.

I see why you suggest that a wider contact surface on a fret could increase 
the chances of a buzz, but for average fret widths, that isn't very likely.

If the buzz increases when the string is pressed down harder - that sounds 
right, since pushing a string down harder (eg, hard enough for the string to 
contact the fretboard) usually raises the upward angle of the string where it 
passes over the fret. The problem is likely to be the age-old one of the 
guitar's action at the higher frets simply being too low for the laws of physics!

Live with a slightly higher action if you can, or get the frets dressed 
(re-profiled).

JNugent wrote:
> Steve Evans wrote:
>> I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
>> amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
>> noodling.
>> On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
>> that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
>> the one played. The buzz decreases as I increase the pressure on the
>> string.
>> As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
>> slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
>> theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
>> it is this that's causing the buzz.
>> http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg
>>
>> Any input on this would be much appreciated
> 
> Wear which reduces the height of a fret increases the propensity of the 
> string to buzz on making contact with subsequent frets (particularly 
> with the next fret or any others which are aberrantly high). This is 
> more marked with a low action. A fretwear pattern which might not 
> trouble an acoustic player can be painful on an electric with a close 
> action.
> 
> I see why you suggest that a wider contact surface on a fret could 
> increase the chances of a buzz, but for average fret widths, that isn't 
> very likely.
> 
> If the buzz increases when the string is pressed down harder - that 
> sounds right, since pushing a string down harder (eg, hard enough for 
> the string to contact the fretboard) usually raises the upward angle of 
> the string where it passes over the fret. The problem is likely to be 
> the age-old one of the guitar's action at the higher frets simply being 
> too low for the laws of physics!
> 
> Live with a slightly higher action if you can, or get the frets dressed 
> (re-profiled).

Oh, one other thing...

Buzz on high frets (with a reasonably low action) can also indicate a need 
for truss-rod adjustment (almost-but-not-quite straightening out a slight 
concave bow) and re-setting of the action.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:ML2dnTnkH7TiblXXnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Steve Evans wrote:
>> I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
>> amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
>> noodling.
>> On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
>> that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
>> the one played. The buzz  * * decreases * * as I increase the pressure on 
>> the
>> string.
>> As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
>> slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
>> theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
>> it is this that's causing the buzz.
>> http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg
>>
>> Any input on this would be much appreciated
>
> Wear which reduces the height of a fret increases the propensity of the 
> string to buzz on making contact with subsequent frets (particularly with 
> the next fret or any others which are aberrantly high). This is more 
> marked with a low action. A fretwear pattern which might not trouble an 
> acoustic player can be painful on an electric with a close action.
>
> I see why you suggest that a wider contact surface on a fret could 
> increase the chances of a buzz, but for average fret widths, that isn't 
> very likely.
>
> If the buzz increases when the string is pressed down harder - that sounds 
> right, since pushing a string down harder (eg, hard enough for the string 
> to contact the fretboard) usually raises the upward angle of the string 
> where it passes over the fret.


You seem to have that the wrong way round - the finite inflexibility of 
strings is likely to increase the clearance between the string and the next 
fret(s) along the harder you push the string between the frets, and this 
would be expected to reduce buzzing as the OP stated (see my asterisks 
above).  Perhaps a slip of the keyboard.

When I read the original posting I wondered if it was just a matter of not 
pressing hard enough on the strings, or using strings too thick for the 
available amount of pressure.  But perhaps it's just a need for fret 
levelling.

Chris

christofire wrote:
> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
> news:ML2dnTnkH7TiblXXnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@pipex.net...
>> Steve Evans wrote:
>>> I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
>>> amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
>>> noodling.
>>> On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
>>> that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
>>> the one played. The buzz  * * decreases * * as I increase the pressure on 
>>> the
>>> string.
>>> As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
>>> slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
>>> theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
>>> it is this that's causing the buzz.
>>> http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg
>>>
>>> Any input on this would be much appreciated
>> Wear which reduces the height of a fret increases the propensity of the 
>> string to buzz on making contact with subsequent frets (particularly with 
>> the next fret or any others which are aberrantly high). This is more 
>> marked with a low action. A fretwear pattern which might not trouble an 
>> acoustic player can be painful on an electric with a close action.
>>
>> I see why you suggest that a wider contact surface on a fret could 
>> increase the chances of a buzz, but for average fret widths, that isn't 
>> very likely.
>>
>> If the buzz increases when the string is pressed down harder - that sounds 
>> right, since pushing a string down harder (eg, hard enough for the string 
>> to contact the fretboard) usually raises the upward angle of the string 
>> where it passes over the fret.
> 
> 
> You seem to have that the wrong way round - the finite inflexibility of 
> strings is likely to increase the clearance between the string and the next 
> fret(s) along the harder you push the string between the frets, and this 
> would be expected to reduce buzzing as the OP stated (see my asterisks 
> above).  Perhaps a slip of the keyboard.

Sorry (and apologies to the OP). I typed "increasing" when it should have 
been "decreasing". ISTR that was an edit I decided to phrase differently - 
but then forgot to amend that word.

> When I read the original posting I wondered if it was just a matter of not 
> pressing hard enough on the strings, or using strings too thick for the 
> available amount of pressure.  But perhaps it's just a need for fret 
> levelling.

I don't think I've ever seen a case of "too thick" strings causing rattling. 
How would it happen?

On Oct 5, 2:01 am, JNugent  wrote:

> I don't think I've ever seen a case of "too thick" strings causing rattling.
> How would it happen?

Wider range of movement around the middle of the (vibrating portion of
the) string? I've often wondered if that's the case, or if the
opposite is true, due to the greater elasticity of lighter-gauge
strings. Is there a physician... er, I mean physicist in the house?


adrian

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:LNadncX6n_0Z2FTXnZ2dnUVZ8hti4p2d@pipex.net...
> christofire wrote:
>> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
>> news:ML2dnTnkH7TiblXXnZ2dnUVZ8madnZ2d@pipex.net...
>>> Steve Evans wrote:
>>>> I've had this strat plus since the mid 90's. It doesn't get a massive
>>>> amount of use, hasn't played live and is pretty much used for home
>>>> noodling.
>>>> On the higher notes, the strings tend to buzz but not the kind of buzz
>>>> that comes from the string coming into contact with frets other than
>>>> the one played. The buzz  * * decreases * * as I increase the pressure 
>>>> on the
>>>> string.
>>>> As you can see from this photo, the tops of the frets have become
>>>> slightly flat. Putting my sleuthing hat on, I have come up with the
>>>> theory that the string has too large a contact area with the fret and
>>>> it is this that's causing the buzz.
>>>> http://www.steveevans.org/frets.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Any input on this would be much appreciated
>>> Wear which reduces the height of a fret increases the propensity of the 
>>> string to buzz on making contact with subsequent frets (particularly 
>>> with the next fret or any others which are aberrantly high). This is 
>>> more marked with a low action. A fretwear pattern which might not 
>>> trouble an acoustic player can be painful on an electric with a close 
>>> action.
>>>
>>> I see why you suggest that a wider contact surface on a fret could 
>>> increase the chances of a buzz, but for average fret widths, that isn't 
>>> very likely.
>>>
>>> If the buzz increases when the string is pressed down harder - that 
>>> sounds right, since pushing a string down harder (eg, hard enough for 
>>> the string to contact the fretboard) usually raises the upward angle of 
>>> the string where it passes over the fret.
>>
>>
>> You seem to have that the wrong way round - the finite inflexibility of 
>> strings is likely to increase the clearance between the string and the 
>> next fret(s) along the harder you push the string between the frets, and 
>> this would be expected to reduce buzzing as the OP stated (see my 
>> asterisks above).  Perhaps a slip of the keyboard.
>
> Sorry (and apologies to the OP). I typed "increasing" when it should have 
> been "decreasing". ISTR that was an edit I decided to phrase differently - 
> but then forgot to amend that word.
>
>> When I read the original posting I wondered if it was just a matter of 
>> not pressing hard enough on the strings, or using strings too thick for 
>> the available amount of pressure.  But perhaps it's just a need for fret 
>> levelling.
>
> I don't think I've ever seen a case of "too thick" strings causing 
> rattling. How would it happen?


I was just 'thinking out loud' from experience with an acoustic guitar with 
a (too) high action.  If I don't press hard enough the strings still sound 
to some extent but vibrate against the fret with my finger as a (lossy) 
fulcrum.  I've only noticed this with thick strings because with thin ones 
the damping of such 'fretless' playing mutes the strings so much that 
nothing much is heard.

Probably not the OP's problem though.

Chris

Adrian Clark wrote:
> On Oct 5, 2:01 am, JNugent  wrote:
> 
>> I don't think I've ever seen a case of "too thick" strings causing rattling.
>> How would it happen?
> 
> Wider range of movement around the middle of the (vibrating portion of
> the) string? I've often wondered if that's the case, or if the
> opposite is true, due to the greater elasticity of lighter-gauge
> strings. Is there a physician... er, I mean physicist in the house?

Counter-intuitive to me, Adrian...

The lowest action I've ever had on any guitar was achieved with an admittedly 
superb neck and very accurate fretting (a 1960s Mosrite), but also with heavy 
(by today's standards) string - 13-56.

I tried lighter strings on it, but even after neck adjustments, they rattled 
unless the action was raised, something I was disinclined to do.

Typically, a "jazz guitar" will have 12, 13s or heavier - and well-made 
archtops from good manufacturers consistently come up with the lowest actions.

christofire wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:

>>> When I read the original posting I wondered if it was just a matter of 
>>> not pressing hard enough on the strings, or using strings too thick for 
>>> the available amount of pressure.  But perhaps it's just a need for fret 
>>> levelling.

>> I don't think I've ever seen a case of "too thick" strings causing 
>> rattling. How would it happen?

> I was just 'thinking out loud' from experience with an acoustic guitar with 
> a (too) high action.  If I don't press hard enough the strings still sound 
> to some extent but vibrate against the fret with my finger as a (lossy) 
> fulcrum.  I've only noticed this with thick strings because with thin ones 
> the damping of such 'fretless' playing mutes the strings so much that 
> nothing much is heard.

> Probably not the OP's problem though.

Fair enough, I can see how that would happen. And paradoxically (one might 
think), lowering the action will reduce the tendency for buzzing.

In normal action ranges though, the lowest I've ever achieved (in "fretless 
wonder" terms) has been with a heavier gauge rather than a lighter gauge.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:NZidnYtbCJJltlfXnZ2dnUVZ8hmdnZ2d@pipex.net...
>
> In normal action ranges though, the lowest I've ever achieved (in 
> "fretless wonder" terms) has been with a heavier gauge rather than a 
> lighter gauge.

Yes that's what I've found too. The higher tension means that the string 
doesn't flap about so much, it seems.

Steve.