Hi,

I've been asked to play bass with a band (I normally play guitar), and
whilst I have a bass - an OLP job which I use for recording, I don't
have an amp.

My question is this, what sort of output power do I need to make a
nice bass noise given that the drummer's a heavy hitter and the
guitarist will be maxing his Fender Twin.

I wouldn't want whatever I get to be pushed to the limit - always nice
to have a bit of headroom.  I'd like to think I could get away with a
combo and not have to spend monster bucks - is this feasible?  And
given that I'm a geriatric, I need to be able to get it in and out of
the car without forklift/truss/visit to A&E.  Obviously I shall try to
get whatever's needed secondhand.

Many TIA

Tim

On 2008-07-14 19:20:18 +0100, HotEL34s  said:

> Hi,
> 
> I've been asked to play bass with a band (I normally play guitar), and
> whilst I have a bass - an OLP job which I use for recording, I don't
> have an amp.
> 
> My question is this, what sort of output power do I need to make a
> nice bass noise given that the drummer's a heavy hitter and the
> guitarist will be maxing his Fender Twin.
> 
> I wouldn't want whatever I get to be pushed to the limit - always nice
> to have a bit of headroom.  I'd like to think I could get away with a
> combo and not have to spend monster bucks - is this feasible?  And
> given that I'm a geriatric, I need to be able to get it in and out of
> the car without forklift/truss/visit to A&E.  Obviously I shall try to
> get whatever's needed secondhand.
> 
> Many TIA
> 
> Tim

The common school of thought is a bass amp needs to be 3 to 4 times the 
power rating of the guitar amps you'll be competing against.  Bass 
needs more wattage behind to to project and to remain clean at relative 
volume to the commonly overdriven guitars.

Cab design and efficiency has a lot to play here too, as does the 
number of speakers.

I personally use a Markbass Little Mark II, that is 500w at 4 ohms and 
300w at 8 ohms. I use this with a single Markbass 1x12 8ohm cab (so 
running at 300w).  The 2 guitarists in my band have relatively small 
rigs, a 1x12 100w Marshall all tube combo, and a 100 H&K Switchblade 
into 2x12.  So no massive stacks here.  We also have a Keith Moon-esque 
drummer and I still have more than enough headroom.  I rarely have to 
turn the master past halfway, even at the bigger gigs.  Whereas my old 
Warwick 250w 1x15 I had to max out in the same venues.  This new 
smaller can is just so much more efficient.

Of course, if I had to play alongside a couple of huge stacks, then I 
would need more speakers, but my amp itself would be fine.

I would also recommend an amp with a DI output, that way if you do run 
out of headroom you can always hook up to the PA system.

The Markbass gear I have is also incredibly light, my amp head is less 
than 6lbs!.   This seems to be the thing for this year is bass circles. 
 Ashdown have their Superfly, there's the Genz Shuttle's, Phil Jones 
breifcase and EA (Euphonic Audio) offerings too.  Of course, these do 
come at a premium, but worth looking into if weight is a major issue.  
BTW, EA make a tiny head and cab that actually fit into a backpack!

I can highly recommend the Markbass stuff though, if you can, check out 
the combo version of my mini stack:
http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua=en&cat=3&vedi=41
I was sorely tempted but wanted the flexibility of separates.

Greg

Greg,

I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  In fact the bassist
I was playing with a couple of years ago had a rig (it was blue in
part - Eden possibly?) that was probably worth more than my car! ...it
was certainly very large.

But the combo thing - excellent, and I guess if you need to, you can
add an extension cab, as you say.  I may have to go and try one out.

Thanks for your feedback.

Cheers

Tim
>
> > Tim
>
> The common school of thought is a bass amp needs to be 3 to 4 times the
> power rating of the guitar amps you'll be competing against.  Bass
> needs more wattage behind to to project and to remain clean at relative
> volume to the commonly overdriven guitars.
>
> Cab design and efficiency has a lot to play here too, as does the
> number of speakers.
>
> I personally use a Markbass Little Mark II, that is 500w at 4 ohms and
> 300w at 8 ohms. I use this with a single Markbass 1x12 8ohm cab (so
> running at 300w).  The 2 guitarists in my band have relatively small
> rigs, a 1x12 100w Marshall all tube combo, and a 100 H&K Switchblade
> into 2x12.  So no massive stacks here.  We also have a Keith Moon-esque
> drummer and I still have more than enough headroom.  I rarely have to
> turn the master past halfway, even at the bigger gigs.  Whereas my old
> Warwick 250w 1x15 I had to max out in the same venues.  This new
> smaller can is just so much more efficient.
>
> Of course, if I had to play alongside a couple of huge stacks, then I
> would need more speakers, but my amp itself would be fine.
>
> I would also recommend an amp with a DI output, that way if you do run
> out of headroom you can always hook up to the PA system.
>
> The Markbass gear I have is also incredibly light, my amp head is less
> than 6lbs!.   This seems to be the thing for this year is bass circles.
>  Ashdown have their Superfly, there's the Genz Shuttle's, Phil Jones
> breifcase and EA (Euphonic Audio) offerings too.  Of course, these do
> come at a premium, but worth looking into if weight is a major issue.  
> BTW, EA make a tiny head and cab that actually fit into a backpack!
>
> I can highly recommend the Markbass stuff though, if you can, check out
> the combo version of my mini stack:http://www.markbass.it/products.php?lingua=en&cat=3&vedi=41
> I was sorely tempted but wanted the flexibility of separates.
>
> Greg- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

> I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
> the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
> I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
> and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  In fact the bassist
> I was playing with a couple of years ago had a rig (it was blue in
> part - Eden possibly?) that was probably worth more than my car! ...it
> was certainly very large.
>
> But the combo thing - excellent, and I guess if you need to, you can
> add an extension cab, as you say.  I may have to go and try one out.
>
> Thanks for your feedback.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim

I hear what you say about 2 x 15"s in fact I played my last gig on an old 
Ampeg 100 watt tube amp hooked u with 2 x 15"s Celestions and it was pretty 
loud.
MarkBass is not a personal favourite of mine however the idea of a combo 
being able to deliver 500 watts with extension cab gives great flexibility.
If you check out MarkBass give MB Jeff Berlin combo with a 15" a try as many 
people speaks highly of it.

Mini

On 15 Jul, 07:45, HotEL34s  wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
> the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
> I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
> and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  In fact the bassist
> I was playing with a couple of years ago had a rig (it was blue in
> part - Eden possibly?) that was probably worth more than my car! ...it
> was certainly very large.
>
> But the combo thing - excellent, and I guess if you need to, you can
> add an extension cab, as you say.  I may have to go and try one out.
>
> Thanks for your feedback.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim

Remember it wasn't that long ago that people baulked at the idea of
only using 10" speakers for bass, now it's pretty much standard.  A
lot of bassits seem to favour a 4x10" cab forgoining the 1x15"
completely.

But like I said though, it really does depend on the situation and who
you're playing with.  If you're playing with guitarists using combos
or half stacks, then a powerful bass combo will be fine, but competing
against bigger stacks, you really need to join them to move more air.

I have used mine in quite a few venues since I've had it, from small
pub gig playing to about 100 people, to marquee's playing to 400-500
people, and it's perfomed admirably.  Although I needed to use the DI
into the desk for the bigger marquee, but the guitarists and kick drum
went into the desk too, the canvas seems to soak soundwaves up like a
sponge.  We also played a birthday party for one of our fellow UKMGers
in quite a large hall.  Admittedly we forgot to bring my cab, so I
used the birthday boy's 2 small 1x12" cabs, but even so, I didn't need
to DI and had buckets of headroom, and I know my single cab would have
been fine too.

I think I may struggle in a couple of weeks time though. We're playing
the national scout jamboree to approx 10,000 kids.  Eeek!.  But
there's gonna be a professional sound system provided and we'll all go
through the desk. Problem solved.  As long as you and the rest of the
band can hear yourselves clearly on stage, you really don't need huge
bass stacks so be heard by the audience.

Greg

wrote in message 
news:0837e027-9184-4ac9-9856-11589c96460f@m45g2000hsb.googlegroups.com...
On 15 Jul, 07:45, HotEL34s  wrote:
> Greg,
>
> I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
> the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
> I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
> and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn. In fact the bassist
> I was playing with a couple of years ago had a rig (it was blue in
> part - Eden possibly?) that was probably worth more than my car! ...it
> was certainly very large.
>
> But the combo thing - excellent, and I guess if you need to, you can
> add an extension cab, as you say. I may have to go and try one out.
>
> Thanks for your feedback.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tim

Remember it wasn't that long ago that people baulked at the idea of
only using 10" speakers for bass, now it's pretty much standard.  A
lot of bassits seem to favour a 4x10" cab forgoining the 1x15"
completely.

But like I said though, it really does depend on the situation and who
you're playing with.  If you're playing with guitarists using combos
or half stacks, then a powerful bass combo will be fine, but competing
against bigger stacks, you really need to join them to move more air.

I have used mine in quite a few venues since I've had it, from small
pub gig playing to about 100 people, to marquee's playing to 400-500
people, and it's perfomed admirably.  Although I needed to use the DI
into the desk for the bigger marquee, but the guitarists and kick drum
went into the desk too, the canvas seems to soak soundwaves up like a
sponge.  We also played a birthday party for one of our fellow UKMGers
in quite a large hall.  Admittedly we forgot to bring my cab, so I
used the birthday boy's 2 small 1x12" cabs, but even so, I didn't need
to DI and had buckets of headroom, and I know my single cab would have
been fine too.

I think I may struggle in a couple of weeks time though. We're playing
the national scout jamboree to approx 10,000 kids.  Eeek!.  But
there's gonna be a professional sound system provided and we'll all go
through the desk. Problem solved.  As long as you and the rest of the
band can hear yourselves clearly on stage, you really don't need huge
bass stacks so be heard by the audience.


The sound-absorbing qualities of marquees are indeed unpredictable.
Last week, our singer/keyboardist's "other band" - a 6-piece soul outfit - 
played in a marquee outside a pub.
Most of the bass frequencies seemed to have disappeared entirely, due 
entirely to the marquee.
Conversely, we played in a marquee last year and the sound wasn't at all 
bad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHo-3mUxXkQ

George

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HotEL34s
 wrote:

>Greg,
>
>I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
>the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
>I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
>and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  

It's amazing how small and portable - in the world of 'clean' ie bass
and acoustic - amplification has got.

Unless I'm missing something radical that's just come on the market
nothing like this revolution has happened in the guitar world - I
guess because it's valves all the way if you're after 'that' sound.

Of course, there's always a Mesa Boogie...

Steve.

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:36:34 +0100, SteveShark 
<steveATguitarsDOTpowernetDOTcoDOTuk> wrote:
>On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HotEL34s
> wrote:
>
>>Greg,
>>
>>I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
>>the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
>>I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
>>and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  
>
>It's amazing how small and portable - in the world of 'clean' ie bass
>and acoustic - amplification has got.

And jazz guitar...I'm tempted by the JazzKat, but due to financial
constraints will probably have to settle for a Roland Cube 30 or 60 :-(

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr     t-bone .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

Stan Barr wrote:

> SteveShark <steveATguitarsDOTpowernetDOTcoDOTuk> wrote:
>> HotEL34s  wrote:

>>> Greg,
>>> I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
>>> the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
>>> I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
>>> and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  

>> It's amazing how small and portable - in the world of 'clean' ie bass
>> and acoustic - amplification has got.

> And jazz guitar...I'm tempted by the JazzKat, but due to financial
> constraints will probably have to settle for a Roland Cube 30 or 60 :-(

Have you managed to *try* a Jazzkat?

...I've got one of the those (the Roland Cube 30x) for home use.
Absolutely brilliant - wouldn't be without it.

Not too complicated and the power squeezer is a total scream, although
not entirely relevant for jazz excursions!

Tim


On Jul 15, 8:09 pm, t-b...@address.invalid (Stan Barr) wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 18:36:34 퍝, SteveShark
>
> <steveATguitarsDOTpowernetDOTcoDOTuk> wrote:
> >On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 00:45:29 -0700 (PDT), HotEL34s
> > wrote:
>
> >>Greg,
>
> >>I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
> >>the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
> >>I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
> >>and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  
>
> >It's amazing how small and portable - in the world of 'clean' ie bass
> >and acoustic - amplification has got.
>
> And jazz guitar...I'm tempted by the JazzKat, but due to financial
> constraints will probably have to settle for a Roland Cube 30 or 60 :-(
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Stan Barr     t-bone .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com
>
> The future was never like this!

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 20:12:34 +0100, JNugent  wrote:
>Stan Barr wrote:
>
>> SteveShark <steveATguitarsDOTpowernetDOTcoDOTuk> wrote:
>>> HotEL34s  wrote:
>
>>>> Greg,
>>>> I love the idea of being able to get away with a 1 x 12 combo although
>>>> the concept beggars belief - I guess I'm a bit old school insofar as
>>>> I've grown up with bassists having 2 x15's or 1 x18 back in the day
>>>> and more recently, 1 x15 plus 4 x 10 with a horn.  
>
>>> It's amazing how small and portable - in the world of 'clean' ie bass
>>> and acoustic - amplification has got.
>
>> And jazz guitar...I'm tempted by the JazzKat, but due to financial
>> constraints will probably have to settle for a Roland Cube 30 or 60 :-(
>
>Have you managed to *try* a Jazzkat?
>

No, but if I had sufficient funds I would soon track one down to try. 
Seen several good reports on it though.

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr     t-bone .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:32:10 -0700 (PDT), HotEL34s 
 wrote:
>...I've got one of the those (the Roland Cube 30x) for home use.
>Absolutely brilliant - wouldn't be without it.

I've got a Micro Cube and something the same with more grunt would suit me
fine.  If I need more oomph I've got a Twin, I've tried the Micro Cube as a
front-end effects unit, works great...

-- 
Cheers,
Stan Barr     t-bone .at. dial .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!