<http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-HEAD_W0QQitemZ290236250111QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>

If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it 
done?

On Jun 13, 9:17 am, JNugent  wrote:
> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-...>
>
> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
> done?



By looks of the photos, it should be easy to fix and if done right
should have no impact on tone, stability or playability.  If I had a
guitar with a broken headsock that I wanted to sell, I would consider
selling it broken too. Otherwise, I would have to invest in fixing it.
Since it's no longer in original condition the selling price will not
be significantly different if it's fixed or broken so I might actually
net less if I fix it first.  If I were looking to buy it, I would
prefer to buy it broken so I can either fix it properly myself or take
it to someone I trust rather than trust the skills of the seller or
his repair tech.

Cheers

DV

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:ztGdne1kcvAWHM_VRVnyggA@pipex.net...
> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-HEAD_W0QQitemZ290236250111QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
>
> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it 
> done?




I think he's had a bit too much Red Bull.............does (did) look nice 
though....:
"It may not be worth quite as much, but the playability will STILL be there 
just like BEFORE the break.......sometimes better!!!"

Dave Van  wrote:

> On Jun 13, 9:17 am, JNugent  wrote:
> > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-...>
> >
> > If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
> > done?
> 
> 
> 
> By looks of the photos, it should be easy to fix and if done right
> should have no impact on tone, stability or playability.  If I had a
> guitar with a broken headsock that I wanted to sell, I would consider
> selling it broken too. Otherwise, I would have to invest in fixing it.
> Since it's no longer in original condition the selling price will not
> be significantly different if it's fixed or broken so I might actually
> net less if I fix it first.  If I were looking to buy it, I would
> prefer to buy it broken so I can either fix it properly myself or take
> it to someone I trust rather than trust the skills of the seller or
> his repair tech.

So you would pay more for a broken one on ebay then a complete one that
had a break at sometime in the past?

I know I wouldn't. I would think that the price of the repair would be
less than the difference in price you would get.

-- 
Woody

www.alienrat.com

On Jun 13, 12:19 pm, use...@alienrat.co.uk (Woody) wrote:
> Dave Van  wrote:
> > On Jun 13, 9:17 am, JNugent  wrote:
> > > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-...>
>
> > > If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
> > > done?
>
> > By looks of the photos, it should be easy to fix and if done right
> > should have no impact on tone, stability or playability.  If I had a
> > guitar with a broken headsock that I wanted to sell, I would consider
> > selling it broken too. Otherwise, I would have to invest in fixing it.
> > Since it's no longer in original condition the selling price will not
> > be significantly different if it's fixed or broken so I might actually
> > net less if I fix it first.  If I were looking to buy it, I would
> > prefer to buy it broken so I can either fix it properly myself or take
> > it to someone I trust rather than trust the skills of the seller or
> > his repair tech.
>
> So you would pay more for a broken one on ebay then a complete one that
> had a break at sometime in the past?
>
> I know I wouldn't. I would think that the price of the repair would be
> less than the difference in price you would get.
>
> --
> Woody
>
> www.alienrat.com



I never said I would pay MORE for a broken one.  Don't know how you
read that into what I wrote.  I'm just saying I'd rather perform or
supervise the repair myself than trust a stranger to it. I'm also
saying if he pays to have it fixed, he's only going to get back what
he put into it anyway so why not let the buyer invest that time/money.

There are dozens of Gibsons with repaired headstocks in service and
doing quite well.  Some are more prone to breakage than others but
it's such a common occurrence that many Gibson players/owners just
learn to accept it and even expect it.

The seller's point about it possibly sounding better after the repair
is one I have heard before. I'm not saying I agree or dis-agree but
the logic behind the theory is that if the headstock was prone to
breakage, then the wood was weak, porous, already broken below the
surface, etc.  The theory goes; the repaired joint will be stronger,
stiffer, more stable than the weaker pre-broken state.

At any rate. A broken Gibson headstock is no big deal.  It happens all
the time and they are repaired all the time.

Cheers

DV

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:ztGdne1kcvAWHM_VRVnyggA@pipex.net...
> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GIBSON-FIREBIRD-Custom-Shop-1-of-25-made-BROKE-HEAD_W0QQitemZ290236250111QQihZ019QQcategoryZ33040QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem>
>
> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it 
> done?

I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....

angof

Angof  wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote in message 
> news:ztGdne1kcvAWHM_VRVnyggA@pipex.net...
> > <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290236250111>
> >
> > If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
> > done?
> 
> I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....

I don't know, in that colour...

-- 
Woody

www.alienrat.com

Woody wrote:

> Angof  wrote:
>> "JNugent"  wrote:

>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290236250111>

>>> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
>>> done?

>> I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....

> I don't know, in that colour...

Those metallic colours are actually pretty classic on that particular 
model. It must have been a sickener.

I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that 
headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare. I know it's 
a risk on mahogany necked Gibbos (more so without a volute), but there 
still needs to be an accident of horrific proportions (eg, dropping the 
guitar from a height onto an unforgiving surface at an odd angle) before 
it can happen. Since such an accident would cause severe cosmetic damage 
to any guitar, and yet one does not often encounter it on any guitar, 
and discounting the possibility that the owners of mahogany-necked 
Gibsons are particularly prone to dropping their guitars, I think one 
should see this sort of damage as the rarity it is. I accept that it is 
not so rare that you never hear of it (and not so rare that a reasonably 
well knowm method of repair hasn't eveolved), but it's still not a 
common ocurrence.

JNugent  wrote:

> Woody wrote:
> 
> > Angof  wrote:
> >> "JNugent"  wrote:
> 
> >>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290236250111>
> 
> >>> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
> >>> done?
> 
> >> I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....
> 
> > I don't know, in that colour...
> 
> Those metallic colours are actually pretty classic on that particular
> model. It must have been a sickener.

I would imagine so.

> I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that 
> headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare.

Is it? I see it from time to time on ebay, and you hear it occasionally.
Although obviously there are a lot of gibsons, you hear it more often
about those than any other guitars.

> Since such an accident would cause severe cosmetic damage 
> to any guitar, and yet one does not often encounter it on any guitar,
> and discounting the possibility that the owners of mahogany-necked 
> Gibsons are particularly prone to dropping their guitars, I think one
> should see this sort of damage as the rarity it is. I accept that it is
> not so rare that you never hear of it (and not so rare that a reasonably
> well knowm method of repair hasn't eveolved), but it's still not a 
> common ocurrence.

Not common, I would agree, not in whole percentage figures.

-- 
Woody

www.alienrat.com

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:38:12 +0100, JNugent  wrote:

>Woody wrote:
>
>> Angof  wrote:
>>> "JNugent"  wrote:
>
>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290236250111>
>
>>>> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
>>>> done?
>
>>> I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....
>
>> I don't know, in that colour...
>
>Those metallic colours are actually pretty classic on that particular 
>model. It must have been a sickener.
>
>I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that 
>headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare. I know it's 
>a risk on mahogany necked Gibbos (more so without a volute), but there 
>still needs to be an accident of horrific proportions (eg, dropping the 
>guitar from a height onto an unforgiving surface at an odd angle) before 
>it can happen. Since such an accident would cause severe cosmetic damage 
>to any guitar, and yet one does not often encounter it on any guitar, 
>and discounting the possibility that the owners of mahogany-necked 
>Gibsons are particularly prone to dropping their guitars, I think one 
>should see this sort of damage as the rarity it is. I accept that it is 
>not so rare that you never hear of it (and not so rare that a reasonably 
>well knowm method of repair hasn't eveolved), but it's still not a 
>common ocurrence.

Actually the one thing that doesn't seem right about this one is that
"it got broken in shipping". If that's true, why is the case undamaged?
I have broken a headstock in such a way before - I was leaning against a
piano, my feet slipped and the headstock whacked aginst the piano lid as
I fell, and yes it wasn't too difficult to repair and yes the guitar was
fine afterwards. But it did take quite a whack, and I just can't see how
it could have happened if this guitar was being shipped in its case (and
if it wasn't in its case, why the hell not?)
-- 
Chris Bolus (change o to zero to reply by email)
A guitar is for life, not just for Christmas!

Woody wrote:

> JNugent  wrote:
>> Woody wrote:
>>> Angof  wrote:
>>>> "JNugent"  wrote:

>>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290236250111>

>>>>> If it's that easy to fix, the question is begged - why hasn't he had it
>>>>> done?

>>>> I bet he cried when THAT happened! I know I would....

>>> I don't know, in that colour...

>> Those metallic colours are actually pretty classic on that particular
>> model. It must have been a sickener.

> I would imagine so.

>> I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that 
>> headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare.

> Is it? I see it from time to time on ebay, and you hear it occasionally.
> Although obviously there are a lot of gibsons, you hear it more often
> about those than any other guitars.

I have <...cough...> six Gibsons and one Kalamazoo Epiphone here. I 
don't expect any of them ever to suffer a broken headstock. That PP said 
I should be expecting it. One of them has survived in one piece since 
1962, the others varying periods up to 30 years this year.
> 
>> Since such an accident would cause severe cosmetic damage 
>> to any guitar, and yet one does not often encounter it on any guitar,
>> and discounting the possibility that the owners of mahogany-necked 
>> Gibsons are particularly prone to dropping their guitars, I think one
>> should see this sort of damage as the rarity it is. I accept that it is
>> not so rare that you never hear of it (and not so rare that a reasonably
>> well knowm method of repair hasn't eveolved), but it's still not a 
>> common ocurrence.

> Not common, I would agree, not in whole percentage figures.

"Woody"  wrote in message 
news:1iiiurs.18uymzq5214zbN%usenet@alienrat.co.uk...
> JNugent  wrote:
>
>> I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that
>> headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare.
>
> Is it? I see it from time to time on ebay, and you hear it occasionally.
> Although obviously there are a lot of gibsons, you hear it more often
> about those than any other guitars.

I think it depends how they are looked after. I fix quite a few.

In fact I've got two Les Pauls here for headstock repairs, both broken by 
the same person.

One has been repaired twice by me already. I'm happy to say that each break 
has been in a different place and not a failure of my joint. This time it is 
well and truly shattered and I'm running out of options...

Steve.

"Steve Robinson"  wrote in message 
news:LaV4k.154017$_c7.83943@newsfe16.ams2...
> "Woody"  wrote in message 
> news:1iiiurs.18uymzq5214zbN%usenet@alienrat.co.uk...
>> JNugent  wrote:
>>
>>> I don't, BTW, accept the point made by the PP who reckoned that
>>> headstocks often snap on Gibsons. I think it's fairly rare.
>>
>> Is it? I see it from time to time on ebay, and you hear it occasionally.
>> Although obviously there are a lot of gibsons, you hear it more often
>> about those than any other guitars.
>
> I think it depends how they are looked after. I fix quite a few.
>
> In fact I've got two Les Pauls here for headstock repairs, both broken by 
> the same person.
>
> One has been repaired twice by me already. I'm happy to say that each 
> break has been in a different place and not a failure of my joint. This 
> time it is well and truly shattered and I'm running out of options...

I wouldn't bother he will only break it again. Maybe it is time you fixed 
the person? :-)

-- 
Woody

"Chris Bolus"  wrote in message 
news:dd97549g6r13662ee5phlblhoqnpl2ua4i@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 09:38:12 +0100, JNugent  wrote:

>
> Actually the one thing that doesn't seem right about this one is that
> "it got broken in shipping". If that's true, why is the case undamaged?
> I have broken a headstock in such a way before - I was leaning against a
> piano, my feet slipped and the headstock whacked aginst the piano lid as
> I fell, and yes it wasn't too difficult to repair and yes the guitar was
> fine afterwards. But it did take quite a whack, and I just can't see how
> it could have happened if this guitar was being shipped in its case (and
> if it wasn't in its case, why the hell not?)
> -- 
> Chris Bolus (change o to zero to reply by email)
> A guitar is for life, not just for Christmas!

A few years back, at a band rehearsal, I witnessed the other guitar-player's 
pristine walnut-tinted SG fall slowly forward off its stand and hit the 
floor, the nut touching first - rapidly followed by the head, which had 
snapped off. Just like that :-(

Point is, the grain runs along the neck (which is fine) but the head is then 
canted back across the grain (which is less good, structurally). Which is 
why it can so easily happen.

Remember Pete Townshend's guitar-trashing days? The Gibson's broke 
relatively easily (a good friend of mine had two or three ex-PT Les Pauls, 
so I've seen the results at first-hand), which got to be a tad expensive. 
Fenders, on the other hand, would eventually let go at the neck/body joint 
when the screws gave out (just as good a crowd-pleaser), so could be put 
back together to live/die another day...

RM

On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:09:32 +0100, Chris Bolus wrote:

> Actually the one thing that doesn't seem right about this one is that
> "it got broken in shipping". If that's true, why is the case undamaged?

Hmmmm, it's illuminating to watch Bryn Hiscox in action on this topic -
around halfway through he gives a passing mention to transit damage (in
competitors' cases, naturally, but he backs up his assertions with
impressive logic).

http://www.hiscoxcases.com/products_hiscox.htm#construction

My latest acquisition is definitely going to ride in a Hiscox...

-- 
Guitarists play jazz at the Beaufort -
www.beaufortjazz.com

On Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:01:06 +0100, nog  wrote:

>On Sat, 14 Jun 2008 12:09:32 +0100, Chris Bolus wrote:
>
>> Actually the one thing that doesn't seem right about this one is that
>> "it got broken in shipping". If that's true, why is the case undamaged?
>
>Hmmmm, it's illuminating to watch Bryn Hiscox in action on this topic -
>around halfway through he gives a passing mention to transit damage (in
>competitors' cases, naturally, but he backs up his assertions with
>impressive logic).
>
>http://www.hiscoxcases.com/products_hiscox.htm#construction
>
>My latest acquisition is definitely going to ride in a Hiscox...


I can certainly back up the comments Bryn Hiscox makes.  I've had my
Hiscox case for nearly ten years, and it's taken several flights with
rather careless carriers.

My Jap Tele came in a case similar to the competitor's case he takes
apart in the video.  It's just not up to the same standard as the
Hiscox case - and this is a Fender case we're talking about.  The
moulding was cheaply produced, because it's warped - and because the
polystyrene insert doesn't make the case very rigid.

As for the plywood case, I also have a similar one.  It's OK.  I've
trusted it to an airline, once.  
-- 
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals      http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/  
http://www.stevedix.de/blog           http://www.snorty.net/