Not what I wanted to hear, I tend to stop doing something once it 
becomes the subject of exams:

from today's newsfeeds -

---------

The Registry of Guitar Tutors (RGT) has announced new formal 
qualifications for would-be Bob Dylans and K.T. Tunstalls with the 
launch of the first graded exams for acoustic guitarists. Although 
graded exams for classical and electric guitar have been available for 
some years, up until now there have been no specialist qualifications 
available for acoustic guitar players anywhere in the world.

The exams have been developed by the RGT (the UK’s only specialist 
guitar education examination body) whose Board of Patrons includes 
Gordon Giltrap, one of the UK’s most respected acoustic guitar players, 
alongside other popular music grandees such as Sir Paul McCartney, 
Ronnie Wood of the Rolling Stones and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.

The focus of these exams is on practical making-music and includes music 
from a wide range of popular styles including folk, pop, blues, rock and 
country. There are two entry-level examinations designed specifically 
for children and beginners, whilst the higher grades aim to help 
candidates develop their own musical personality.

RGT Director Tony Skinner says: “Acoustic guitar is one of the most 
popular instruments taught in schools and many rock and pop bands now 
prominently feature acoustic guitar. These exams are the first formal 
recognition of the talents of acoustic guitar players and provide 
acoustic guitarist students with a structured course to follow.”

The exams are certificated by London College of Music Exams and Thames 
Valley University and have been accredited by the Qualifications and 
Curriculum Authority and placed on the National Qualifications 
Framework. The higher grades also attract UCAS points for university 
entrance.

The exams will be available from June 2008. A free Exam Information 
Booklet, detailing the requirements for every grade, is available online 
at www.RGT.org.uk.
For more information contact RGT on 01424 222222

-------

David

Thousands and thousands of people play guitar without taking exams. Why does 
this worry you?

Angof

"David Kilpatrick"  wrote in message 
news:YZKdneFijY3OWr_VnZ2dneKdnZydnZ2d@bt.com...
> Not what I wanted to hear, I tend to stop doing something once it becomes 
> the subject of exams:
>
> from today's newsfeeds -
>
> ---------
>
> The Registry of Guitar Tutors (RGT) has announced new formal 
> qualifications for would-be Bob Dylans and K.T. Tunstalls with the launch 
> of the first graded exams for acoustic guitarists. Although graded exams 
> for classical and electric guitar have been available for some years, up 
> until now there have been no specialist qualifications available for 
> acoustic guitar players anywhere in the world.
>
> The exams have been developed by the RGT (the UK’s only specialist guitar 
> education examination body) whose Board of Patrons includes Gordon 
> Giltrap, one of the UK’s most respected acoustic guitar players, alongside 
> other popular music grandees such as Sir Paul McCartney, Ronnie Wood of 
> the Rolling Stones and David Gilmour of Pink Floyd.
>
> The focus of these exams is on practical making-music and includes music 
> from a wide range of popular styles including folk, pop, blues, rock and 
> country. There are two entry-level examinations designed specifically for 
> children and beginners, whilst the higher grades aim to help candidates 
> develop their own musical personality.
>
> RGT Director Tony Skinner says: “Acoustic guitar is one of the most 
> popular instruments taught in schools and many rock and pop bands now 
> prominently feature acoustic guitar. These exams are the first formal 
> recognition of the talents of acoustic guitar players and provide acoustic 
> guitarist students with a structured course to follow.”
>
> The exams are certificated by London College of Music Exams and Thames 
> Valley University and have been accredited by the Qualifications and 
> Curriculum Authority and placed on the National Qualifications Framework. 
> The higher grades also attract UCAS points for university entrance.
>
> The exams will be available from June 2008. A free Exam Information 
> Booklet, detailing the requirements for every grade, is available online 
> at www.RGT.org.uk.
> For more information contact RGT on 01424 222222
>
> -------
>
> David

Angof wrote:
> Thousands and thousands of people play guitar without taking exams. Why does 
> this worry you?


Because far fewer people play instruments for which the exam route is 
normal!

It worries me because it's almost impossible to do without setting a 
curriculum with certain fixed styles, pieces etc. Within five years, 
these styles and pieces become totally un-hip because they are in the exams.

I think the reason a lot of adult acoustic players don't touch nylon 
string is because it's what was handed out at school for learning 
guitar. They miss out of course.

David

"David Kilpatrick"  wrote in message 
news:b5ednXOAfb6_mb7VnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
> Angof wrote:
>> Thousands and thousands of people play guitar without taking exams. Why 
>> does this worry you?
>
>
> Because far fewer people play instruments for which the exam route is 
> normal!
>
> It worries me because it's almost impossible to do without setting a 
> curriculum with certain fixed styles, pieces etc. Within five years, these 
> styles and pieces become totally un-hip because they are in the exams.
>
> I think the reason a lot of adult acoustic players don't touch nylon 
> string is because it's what was handed out at school for learning guitar. 
> They miss out of course.
>
> David

I would disagree, I think many people dont pick up a nylon string because of 
the music that is associated with it, namely classical music. I dont think 
you see nylon string guitars in popular culture and it is associated with 
high culture and thus it isn't as attractive. Also steel strung acoustics 
are more prominently sold in music shops. It is a cultural thing I think.

I think you're hypothesis has some bearing for those who played guitar at 
school, but I personally think it is a minor consideration in terms of 
general culture.

I agree that people are missing out though.

Angof

*shrug*

The Rock School and RGT exams have been around for years, and I don't 
see any decline in electric guitar playing. Some people just like an 
objective benchmark of how well they're doing.


adrian

-- 
http://www.spaghetti-factory.co.uk
http://www.myspace.com/adrianclarkmusic

On Thu, 08 May 2008 16:35:40 +0100, Adrian Clark 
wrote:
>Some people just like an 
>objective benchmark of how well they're doing.

Indeed. And for some it's a useful target which encourages them to
practice and improve. It's not for everyone but some will find it
beneficial.

Cheers,
Steve W

On Thu, 8 May 2008 15:21:50 +0100, "Angof"  wrote:

>
>"David Kilpatrick"  wrote in message 
>news:b5ednXOAfb6_mb7VnZ2dnUVZ8sjinZ2d@bt.com...
>> Angof wrote:
>>> Thousands and thousands of people play guitar without taking exams. Why 
>>> does this worry you?
>>
>>
>> Because far fewer people play instruments for which the exam route is 
>> normal!
>>
>> It worries me because it's almost impossible to do without setting a 
>> curriculum with certain fixed styles, pieces etc. Within five years, these 
>> styles and pieces become totally un-hip because they are in the exams.
>>
>> I think the reason a lot of adult acoustic players don't touch nylon 
>> string is because it's what was handed out at school for learning guitar. 
>> They miss out of course.
>>
>> David
>
>I would disagree, I think many people dont pick up a nylon string because of 
>the music that is associated with it, namely classical music. I dont think 
>you see nylon string guitars in popular culture and it is associated with 
>high culture and thus it isn't as attractive. Also steel strung acoustics 
>are more prominently sold in music shops. It is a cultural thing I think.
>
>I think you're hypothesis has some bearing for those who played guitar at 
>school, but I personally think it is a minor consideration in terms of 
>general culture.
>
>I agree that people are missing out though.
>
>Angof 
>


Actually, over here in germany, nylon string guitars are considerably
more visible than in the UK, because of German folk music.

-- 
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals      http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/  
http://www.stevedix.de/blog           http://www.snorty.net/

Adrian Clark wrote:
> *shrug*
> 
> The Rock School and RGT exams have been around for years, and I don't 
> see any decline in electric guitar playing. Some people just like an 
> objective benchmark of how well they're doing.
> 
> 
> adrian
> 

Yes, David, Adrian's right! Don't worry a jot, it'll make no difference.

Grades are very different now too - they have a good deal more practical 
use to a learning guitarist than the old grades did for non-classical 
guitar. They were too similar to the classical model. I'd happily teach 
someone to the syllabus WITHOUT them doing the exams! It's a good 
syllabus (I'm talking here about the electric version of these new 
acoustic grades).

Although, I am 100% with you. I don't think exams are what learning 
music should be about at all. THere is simply no need for them with 
talented and creative pupils. They do serve a purpose though, and that 
purpose is NOT "grading" the pupil. The purpose is maintaining 
motivation to pratice because of a somewhat imposing goal.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 10:48:00 GMT, performingchimp
 wrote:

>Adrian Clark wrote:
>> *shrug*
>> 
>> The Rock School and RGT exams have been around for years, and I don't 
>> see any decline in electric guitar playing. Some people just like an 
>> objective benchmark of how well they're doing.
>> 
>> 
>> adrian
>> 
>
>Yes, David, Adrian's right! Don't worry a jot, it'll make no difference.
>
>Grades are very different now too - they have a good deal more practical 
>use to a learning guitarist than the old grades did for non-classical 
>guitar. They were too similar to the classical model. I'd happily teach 
>someone to the syllabus WITHOUT them doing the exams! It's a good 
>syllabus (I'm talking here about the electric version of these new 
>acoustic grades).
>
>Although, I am 100% with you. I don't think exams are what learning 
>music should be about at all. THere is simply no need for them with 
>talented and creative pupils. They do serve a purpose though, and that 
>purpose is NOT "grading" the pupil. The purpose is maintaining 
>motivation to pratice because of a somewhat imposing goal.

Hear, hear!

I really don't think it matters how you learn guitar - or anything for
pleasure come to that - as long as it's enjoyable and it works for you
and helps you achieve whatever incidental goals you may have.

However, some people like the discipline that syllabuses like
Rockschool offer and, having used it for the past year intensively in
one school I teach at, it isn't at all restrictive as far as the
electric aspect is concerned. There's an importance attached to improv
and although theory is involved, what there is is practical and useful
to know.

At the same time, I teach kids who just seem to be able to provide the
necessary structure themselves and are very goal-driven in terms of
personal achievement - with some it's just a question of me pointing
them in certain directions and being there to answer any queries along
the way.

We all approach learning in a variety of ways - either separately or
in combination and grades simply offer one such approach. I'd hate to
see the whole process reduced to formal methods, but I really don't
see that happening and I don't think it's anyone's intention to
establish the 'one true way'. 

In fact, it's helping to establish the guitar - outside of the
classical sphere - by paying some limited lip service to those who see
the instrument as somehow not worthy of academic status when it comes
to integration into the exam system. I've seen GCSE Music and B Tech
courses achieve far more success for kids who used to have to struggle
to submit guitar solos. Now the examiners are far more open to the
rather less restrictive nature of the instrument as they now have a
score to relate the performance to. Previously it was a real struggle
to stop kids trying to submit aimless solos and chord sequences that
really didn't constitute a solo performance. Now the examiners seem
far more prepared to accept what is becoming a truer representation of
the instrument in terms of a slightly more structured format.

I think that's essentially a good thing and it certainly doesn't
preclude personal goals and achievements.

Steve.

SteveShark wrote:
> 
> In fact, it's helping to establish the guitar - outside of the
> classical sphere - by paying some limited lip service to those who see
> the instrument as somehow not worthy of academic status when it comes
> to integration into the exam system. I've seen GCSE Music and B Tech
> courses achieve far more success for kids who used to have to struggle
> to submit guitar solos. Now the examiners are far more open to the
> rather less restrictive nature of the instrument as they now have a
> score to relate the performance to. Previously it was a real struggle
> to stop kids trying to submit aimless solos and chord sequences that
> really didn't constitute a solo performance. Now the examiners seem
> far more prepared to accept what is becoming a truer representation of
> the instrument in terms of a slightly more structured format.

It's a double-edged sword though, in that the more "pop" music and 
particularly rock guitar are integrated into mainstream education and 
indeed mainstream culture, the less cool it becomes! Being on the 
outside was a great apeal for me. The idea of my guitar being a prt of 
regular school life might have killed it for me.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 17:30:11 GMT, performingchimp
 wrote:

>SteveShark wrote:
>> 
>> In fact, it's helping to establish the guitar - outside of the
>> classical sphere - by paying some limited lip service to those who see
>> the instrument as somehow not worthy of academic status when it comes
>> to integration into the exam system. I've seen GCSE Music and B Tech
>> courses achieve far more success for kids who used to have to struggle
>> to submit guitar solos. Now the examiners are far more open to the
>> rather less restrictive nature of the instrument as they now have a
>> score to relate the performance to. Previously it was a real struggle
>> to stop kids trying to submit aimless solos and chord sequences that
>> really didn't constitute a solo performance. Now the examiners seem
>> far more prepared to accept what is becoming a truer representation of
>> the instrument in terms of a slightly more structured format.
>
>It's a double-edged sword though, in that the more "pop" music and 
>particularly rock guitar are integrated into mainstream education

It already is, surely?

I can't be the only freelance peripatetic guitar teacher in the
country. I teach in two schools - one a fairly challenging large city
comprehensive and the other a fee-paying school.

>and 
>indeed mainstream culture, 

It already is, surely? 

It's a long time since guitarists were regarded as outsiders, misfits
and deviants.

>the less cool it becomes! 

Nah - guitar has been cool since at least 1965 ;) and shows no signs
of stopping.

>Being on the 
>outside was a great apeal for me. The idea of my guitar being a prt of 
>regular school life might have killed it for me.

Well, our (grammar) school must have been an unusual one but when I
was playing guitar there - 1966 to 1970 - we were actively encouraged
and given time and space for rehearsals, allowed to organise our own
school gigs - we booked Juicy Lucy once....all of which did the
reverse to killing it for those of us who benefited from the school's
attitude towards the guitar. 

As far as I can tell, the kids' reactions to school encouragement are
still positive - both schools I teach at have active bands and
enthusiasm for the instrument is unstoppable.

Steve.

> 
> It's a long time since guitarists were regarded as outsiders, misfits
> and deviants.
> 
> Steve.

"most" guitarists . .

;)

P.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 22:10:30 +0100, SteveShark
<steveATguitarsDOTpowernetDOTcoDOTuk> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 May 2008 17:30:11 GMT, performingchimp
> wrote:
>
>>SteveShark wrote:
>>> 
>>> In fact, it's helping to establish the guitar - outside of the
>>> classical sphere - by paying some limited lip service to those who see
>>> the instrument as somehow not worthy of academic status when it comes
>>> to integration into the exam system. I've seen GCSE Music and B Tech
>>> courses achieve far more success for kids who used to have to struggle
>>> to submit guitar solos. Now the examiners are far more open to the
>>> rather less restrictive nature of the instrument as they now have a
>>> score to relate the performance to. Previously it was a real struggle
>>> to stop kids trying to submit aimless solos and chord sequences that
>>> really didn't constitute a solo performance. Now the examiners seem
>>> far more prepared to accept what is becoming a truer representation of
>>> the instrument in terms of a slightly more structured format.
>>
>>It's a double-edged sword though, in that the more "pop" music and 
>>particularly rock guitar are integrated into mainstream education
>
>It already is, surely?
>
>I can't be the only freelance peripatetic guitar teacher in the
>country. I teach in two schools - one a fairly challenging large city
>comprehensive and the other a fee-paying school.
>
>>and 
>>indeed mainstream culture, 
>
>It already is, surely? 
>
>It's a long time since guitarists were regarded as outsiders, misfits
>and deviants.
>
>>the less cool it becomes! 
>
>Nah - guitar has been cool since at least 1965 ;) and shows no signs
>of stopping.
>
>>Being on the 
>>outside was a great apeal for me. The idea of my guitar being a prt of 
>>regular school life might have killed it for me.
>
>Well, our (grammar) school must have been an unusual one but when I
>was playing guitar there - 1966 to 1970 - we were actively encouraged
>and given time and space for rehearsals, allowed to organise our own
>school gigs - we booked Juicy Lucy once....all of which did the
>reverse to killing it for those of us who benefited from the school's
>attitude towards the guitar. 
>
>As far as I can tell, the kids' reactions to school encouragement are
>still positive - both schools I teach at have active bands and
>enthusiasm for the instrument is unstoppable.
>
At our school we had to recruit extra guitar peris as we have over 90
guitar students.

Two of our recent school bands (Patchwork Grace and Censored) have both
been signed by record companies.

Although it does amuse me when I have the following (regular)
conversation with any student carrying a gig bag...

Me: hello, what have you got there then?
Student: A guitar.
Me: yes, I know it's a guitar, what sort?
Student: An electric guitar...
-- 
Chris Bolus (change o to zero to reply by email)
A guitar is for life, not just for Christmas!