Hi Everybods

I am just contacting you with regards to a petition that concerns dancers in 
the  UK.
I have been informed by a Morris Ring Blog on Google that The Government is 
in the process of introducing the 'Violent Crimes Reduction Bill' whereby 
the sale and use of items such as swords will be prohibited unless for 
historical re-enactment or sporting activities.

Currently, the government does not recognize dance as either a  historical 
re-enactment or a sporting activity and therefore dancers are not  included 
within the exemption for the purchase & use of swords with regards to the 
Violent Crimes Reduction Bill (VCR Bill).

Traditional folklore dances in England since as far back as 1700s have been 
known to use props such as sticks and swords as part of their dances.  These 
dances are forms of art that are of great  historical & cultural  relevance. 
Banning the purchase of and, more importantly, the use of these swords may 
cause such dancing to die out.

It is crucial that sword dances are preserved & allowed to continue.

There is a petition which is up on the home office website.

Please show your support and sign the petition to get dance included so that 
we can continue to preserve and perform the beautiful art of sword dance.

Whether you are a dancer or not, your support is needed, and fast the 
closing date is 25th June 2008

More signatures are desperately needed; here is the link:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/dancers/

PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN!


John (editor efn magazine)


efn magazine

On 28 May, 10:52, "Roger Gall"  wrote:
> Hi Everybods
>
> I am just contacting you with regards to a petition that concerns dancers in
> the �UK.
> I have been informed by a Morris Ring Blog on Google that The Government is
> in the process of introducing the 'Violent Crimes Reduction Bill' whereby
> the sale and use of items such as swords will be prohibited unless for
> historical re-enactment or sporting activities.
>
> Currently, the government does not recognize dance as either a �historical
> re-enactment or a sporting activity and therefore dancers are not �included
> within the exemption for the purchase & use of swords with regards to the
> Violent Crimes Reduction Bill (VCR Bill).
>
> Traditional folklore dances in England since as far back as 1700s have been
> known to use props such as sticks and swords as part of their dances. �These
> dances are forms of art that are of great �historical & cultural �relevance.
> Banning the purchase of and, more importantly, the use of these swords may> cause such dancing to die out.
>
> It is crucial that sword dances are preserved & allowed to continue.
>
> There is a petition which is up on the home office website.
>
> Please show your support and sign the petition to get dance included so that
> we can continue to preserve and perform the beautiful art of sword dance.
>
> Whether you are a dancer or not, your support is needed, and fast the
> closing date is 25th June 2008
>
> More signatures are desperately needed; here is the link:
>
> http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/dancers/
>
> PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO AS MANY PEOPLE AS YOU CAN!
>
> John (editor efn magazine)
>
> efn magazine

Bloody outrageous - petition duly signed today.

Why pick on Morris Dancers?  I cannot recall a single incident of
death by Morris Dancers' sword - wait a munute though, wasn't there
one in Midsomer Murders?

Why not have a go at line-dancers?  Thier pastime was only invented to
give the Morris dancers something to laugh at. ;-)

In message , Roger Gall 
 writes
>I have been informed by a Morris Ring Blog on Google that The Government is
>in the process of introducing the 'Violent Crimes Reduction Bill' whereby

I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers 
knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't 
say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Reg Office: 24 Windmill Walk, Sutton, Ely, Cambs CB6 2NH.

On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:25:48 +0100, Stephen Kellett wrote:

> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers
> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't
> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?

I should think that in recent times swords have been used as a murder 
weapon far less than all sorts of everyday household objects that 
presumably aren't going to be banned.

Anyway, most people wouldn't even recognise a rapper or longsword as a 
sword, and neither type has an even remotely sharp edge. They're just 
flat sticks, or metal strips and for rapper they've often got wooden 
handles on both ends so there's not even a sharp point.

Injuries do happen in rapper, of course, but for quite unrelated reasons.

I've signed, of course.

[muttering: world gorn mad, etc...]
-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk  ==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

On 28 May, 11:25, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
> I can't
> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7391750.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/7385600.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicestershire/7372162.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/south_of_scotland/7350929.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/derbyshire/7277173.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7203203.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7186649.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7124992.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/7083843.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2914437.stm

...and many more.

There's clearly a problem here, that need's to be solved. However,
there's no reason why Morris (and other traditional) dancers can't be
included in a "theatrical and performance" exemption.

--
WH

"Stephen Kellett"  wrote in message 
news:6zWGbzAsMTPIFwWb@objmedia.demon.co.uk...
> In message , Roger Gall 
>  writes
>>I have been informed by a Morris Ring Blog on Google that The Government 
>>is
>>in the process of introducing the 'Violent Crimes Reduction Bill' whereby
>
> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers 
> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't 
> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?


There was a bit of a set-to at Marston Moor in 1644 apparently...

Stuart

anahata wrote:
> On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:25:48 +0100, Stephen Kellett wrote:
> 
>> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers
>> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't
>> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?
> 
> I should think that in recent times swords have been used as a murder 
> weapon far less than all sorts of everyday household objects that 
> presumably aren't going to be banned.
> 
> Anyway, most people wouldn't even recognise a rapper or longsword as a 
> sword, and neither type has an even remotely sharp edge. They're just 
> flat sticks, or metal strips and for rapper they've often got wooden 
> handles on both ends so there's not even a sharp point.

Well, it's obvious that all they've got to do is change the name. Just 
call it rapper or longstick, and don't mention swords. You'd have to 
start calling the swords something else - rappers? rulers?

Scottish dancers may have more of a problem if they want to wear full 
highland dress complete with sgian dubh, though. They'll have to invent 
a new type with a rubber blade or something.

-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers 
> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't 
> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?

Swords have been used fairly often in gang warfare in Scotland
in recent decades.  They're quite effective wallet-openers when
a drug debt is in dispute, and were favoured by the Glasgow
franchise of the UVF when settling turf wars.

A baseball bat or golf club works just as well, though.

Somebody was recently sentenced for a random attack on a bus near
here - the victim was left with severe permanent brain damage.  The
weapon used was a pool cue.

There isn't much to choose between short hand weapons in lethality.
I believe there have been cases of people being beaten to death
with frozen fish and legs of frozen meat (not often used as dance
props, I guess).

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

Jack Campin - bogus address wrote:
>> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers 
>> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't 
>> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?
> 
> Swords have been used fairly often in gang warfare in Scotland
> in recent decades.  They're quite effective wallet-openers when
> a drug debt is in dispute, and were favoured by the Glasgow
> franchise of the UVF when settling turf wars.
> 
> A baseball bat or golf club works just as well, though.
> 
> Somebody was recently sentenced for a random attack on a bus near
> here - the victim was left with severe permanent brain damage.  The
> weapon used was a pool cue.
> 
> There isn't much to choose between short hand weapons in lethality.
> I believe there have been cases of people being beaten to death
> with frozen fish and legs of frozen meat (not often used as dance
> props, I guess).

I have seen a rubber chicken used as a morris prop, but not a frozen one.

Roald Dahl wrote a story (some years ago when frozen food was not such 
an everyday thing) about a woman who murdered her husband using a frozen 
leg of lamb to hit him on the head. She then cooked it and serve it to 
the police, who tucked in to it it while discussing how important it was 
to find the murder weapon...



-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

Marjorie said:
> anahata wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 May 2008 11:25:48 +0100, Stephen Kellett wrote:
>> 
>>> I wasn't aware that the current several year long binge of teenagers
>>> knifing each other had anything to do with swords, just knives. I can't
>>> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?
>> 
>> I should think that in recent times swords have been used as a murder 
>> weapon far less than all sorts of everyday household objects that 
>> presumably aren't going to be banned.
>> 
>> Anyway, most people wouldn't even recognise a rapper or longsword as a 
>> sword, and neither type has an even remotely sharp edge. They're just 
>> flat sticks, or metal strips and for rapper they've often got wooden 
>> handles on both ends so there's not even a sharp point.
>
> Well, it's obvious that all they've got to do is change the name. Just 
> call it rapper or longstick, and don't mention swords. You'd have to 
> start calling the swords something else - rappers? rulers?
>
> Scottish dancers may have more of a problem if they want to wear full 
> highland dress complete with sgian dubh, though. They'll have to invent 
> a new type with a rubber blade or something.

Crossthreadedly, I suggest :- The Highland Cheeseknife Dance


-- 
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

In article , roger.gall@btinternet.com
(Roger Gall) wrote:

> I have been informed by a Morris Ring Blog on Google that The 
> Government is in the process of introducing the 'Violent Crimes 
> Reduction Bill' whereby the sale and use of items such as swords will 
> be prohibited unless for historical re-enactment or sporting 
> activities.

Thinking about this, I notice that there's no exemption listed for dramatic
activities.

Either that means you can't use swords in plays or they are only banning actual
sharpened swords rather than blunt dramatic swords and therefore hopefully things
like rapper and longsword 'swords'.

If they ban swords in plays then they are facing far more trouble than we can ever
cause - the Royal Shakespeare Company is likely to be somewhat dischuffed for a
start.

Though that would still cause problems for sword use in magic shows, circus acts,
and sword swallowing. Those swords still need to be shown to be sharp, even in the
cases where the actual use is faked.



"Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for carrying
a prohibited weapon. Permission to possess such an article derives from a licence
from the government, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

-- 
To reply email rafe, at the address cix co uk

In message <qqednfampOd98aDVnZ2dnUVZ8sPinZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Marjorie 
 writes
>Roald Dahl wrote a story (some years ago when frozen food was not such 
>an everyday thing) about a woman who murdered her husband using a 
>frozen leg of lamb to hit him on the head. She then cooked it and serve 
>it to the police, who tucked in to it it while discussing how important 
>was to find the murder weapon...


What a delicious story idea... on many levels.

Jacey
-- 
Jacey Bedford
jacey at artisan hyphen harmony dot com
posting via usenet and not googlegroups, ourdebate
or any other forum that reprints usenet posts as
though they were the forum's own

> "Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for 
> carrying
> a prohibited weapon. Permission to possess such an article derives from a 
> licence
> from the government, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

Help help I'm being repressed

-- 
Steve Mansfield
Manchester, England
http://www.lesession.co.uk

"Jacey Bedford" <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote in message 
news:jfoLtvNv9XPIFw2L@parkhead.demon.co.uk...
> In message <qqednfampOd98aDVnZ2dnUVZ8sPinZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Marjorie 
>  writes
>>Roald Dahl wrote a story (some years ago when frozen food was not such an 
>>everyday thing) about a woman who murdered her husband using a frozen leg 
>>of lamb to hit him on the head. She then cooked it and serve it to the 
>>police, who tucked in to it it while discussing how important was to find 
>>the murder weapon...
>
>
> What a delicious story idea... on many levels.
>
Reminds me of something I once heard about someone being shot with bullets 
made of ice.

ally

In message , a l l y 
 writes
>
>"Jacey Bedford" <lookinsig@nospam.invalid> wrote in message
>news:jfoLtvNv9XPIFw2L@parkhead.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <qqednfampOd98aDVnZ2dnUVZ8sPinZ2d@posted.plusnet>, Marjorie
>>  writes
>>>Roald Dahl wrote a story (some years ago when frozen food was not such an
>>>everyday thing) about a woman who murdered her husband using a frozen leg
>>>of lamb to hit him on the head. She then cooked it and serve it to the
>>>police, who tucked in to it it while discussing how important was to find
>>>the murder weapon...
>>
>>
>> What a delicious story idea... on many levels.
>>

"Lamb To The Slaughter" - the husband was a police officer - the people 
eating the weapon were his colleagues.

The first production in the "Tales Of The Unexpected" TV series

-- 
If Alan Turing was alive today, the homosexuality would be OK
but he'd be in trouble for codebreaking.

In message , Rafe Culpin 
<nospam@see.sig.to.reply> writes
>"Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis 
>for carrying
>a prohibited weapon. Permission to possess such an article derives from 
>a licence
>from the government, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."

You'll probably need a stone pulling permit as well.

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Reg Office: 24 Windmill Walk, Sutton, Ely, Cambs CB6 2NH.

In message 
, 
William  writes
>On 28 May, 11:25, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
>> I can't
>> say I've heard or read about any crime involving a sword. Anyone else?

Interesting list. Most of them about samurai swords. One about a 
machete. One about a knife of about kitchen knife size that the media 
called a "sword". Very few about gang violence. They seem to be about 
very aggressive individuals with swords.

 >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2914437.stm

The above story features a Liberal Democrat MP getting attacked with a 
sword.

Stephen
-- 
Stephen Kellett
Object Media Limited    http://www.objmedia.demon.co.uk/software.html
Computer Consultancy, Software Development
Windows C++, Java, Assembler, Performance Analysis, Troubleshooting
Reg Office: 24 Windmill Walk, Sutton, Ely, Cambs CB6 2NH.

> Roald Dahl wrote a story (some years ago when frozen food was not such an 
> everyday thing) about a woman who murdered her husband using a frozen leg 
> of lamb to hit him on the head. She then cooked it and serve it to the 
> police, who tucked in to it it while discussing how important was to find 
> the murder weapon...

There is also a Spanish movie fron the early 90s that uses the same idea
(but ham, not lamb) - one of Almodovar's?

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts

On 28 May, 21:10, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
> In message
> ,
> William  writes
[list of news stories involving word/knife attacks]
> Interesting list. Most of them about samurai swords.

Which have already been banned (with similar exemptions).
See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7331099.stm

>  >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2914437.stm
>
> The above story features a Liberal Democrat MP getting attacked with a
> sword.

A shocking story - His assistant was killed in the same attack.

But I was really only answering your point about swords and crime -
however, I don't believe any of these incidents should require the
abolition of rapper swords or similar items. If that were necessary,
then we would also need to ban kitchen knives.

--
WH

In message 
, 
William  writes
>On 28 May, 21:10, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
>> In message
>> ,
>> William  writes
>[list of news stories involving word/knife attacks]
>> Interesting list. Most of them about samurai swords.
>
>Which have already been banned (with similar exemptions).
>See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7331099.stm
>
>>  >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2914437.stm
>>
>> The above story features a Liberal Democrat MP getting attacked with a
>> sword.
>
>A shocking story - His assistant was killed in the same attack.
>
>But I was really only answering your point about swords and crime -
>however, I don't believe any of these incidents should require the
>abolition of rapper swords or similar items.

>If that were necessary,
>then we would also need to ban kitchen knives.

I'm sure that they are working on it.
-- 
Ian

Stephen Kellett wrote:
> In message , Rafe Culpin 
> <nospam@see.sig.to.reply> writes
>> "Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis 
>> for carrying
>> a prohibited weapon. Permission to possess such an article derives 
>> from a licence
>> from the government, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony."
> 
> You'll probably need a stone pulling permit as well.
> 

Did Mandy Smith have one of those?

-- 
Regards

Nigel Stapley

www.thejudge.me.uk

<reply-to will bounce>

William wrote:
> On 28 May, 21:10, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
>> In message
>> ,
>> William  writes
> [list of news stories involving word/knife attacks]
>> Interesting list. Most of them about samurai swords.
> 
> Which have already been banned (with similar exemptions).
> See: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7331099.stm
> 
>>  >http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/2914437.stm
>>
>> The above story features a Liberal Democrat MP getting attacked with a
>> sword.
> 
> A shocking story - His assistant was killed in the same attack.
> 
> But I was really only answering your point about swords and crime -
> however, I don't believe any of these incidents should require the
> abolition of rapper swords or similar items. If that were necessary,
> then we would also need to ban kitchen knives.
> 

And garden implements. I bought a small hand-fork the other day, and it 
had a sticker on saying it was not to be sold to anyone under 18. 
(Over-18s could presumably be trusted not to stab someone with it? Or 
swallow it?).

Perhaps morris will have to become an adults-only activity.


-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

"Jack Campin - bogus address"  wrote in message 
news:bogus-D493F7.14302828052008@news.news.demon.net...

> There isn't much to choose between short hand weapons in lethality.
> I believe there have been cases of people being beaten to death
> with frozen fish and legs of frozen meat (not often used as dance
> props, I guess).

I can certainly remember having dance partners who closely  resembled frozen 
meat.

On 28 May, 12:23, William  wrote:

> There's clearly a problem here, that need's to be solved. However,
> there's no reason why Morris (and other traditional) dancers can't be
> included in a "theatrical and performance" exemption.
>
> --
> WH

I can think of one possibilty, namely that to put Morris in that
category would be to implicitly define it as `art', and therefore a
candidate for support such as Arts Council grants. The last I heard
(and I'll admit this is going back a few years) the Arts Council would
not accept Morris as an `art', referring all funding enquiries to the
Sports Council.

So Morris is a sport, and therefore dangerous and to be controlled (or
only performed by highly paid foreigners). They'll be banning stick
dancing next.

On 28 May, 21:10, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
>  They seem to be about
> very aggressive individuals with swords.

And that, of course, is the actual point. A very aggressive person
unable to get a sword will use something else. I'm sure they could be
significantly aggressive with a tea cosy, so perhaps they should be
banned as well.

"Officials Miss The Point Again - Shock Horror"

On 11 Jun, 09:37, bank...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> The last I heard
> (and I'll admit this is going back a few years) the Arts Council would
> not accept Morris as an `art'

Whereas encasing houses in concrete, or failing to make your bed...

--
WH

On 11 Jun, 09:46, bank...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> On 28 May, 21:10, Stephen Kellett  wrote:
>
> >  They seem to be about
> > very aggressive individuals with swords.
>
> And that, of course, is the actual point. A very aggressive person
> unable to get a sword will use something else. I'm sure they could be
> significantly aggressive with a tea cosy, so perhaps they should be
> banned as well.
>
> "Officials Miss The Point Again - Shock Horror"

Here's a comment from another discussion group, about the (doubtful)
sword ban:-

"The poor British...  Here in the U.S.A. we can do sword dances using
GUNS!  Yee-haw!"

Chris.

Exactly!  Perhaps you're a man after my own heart ...
	http://tinyurl.com/57ymkt
... standing in for ...
http://www.cemh.eclipse.co.uk/Macfarlane/Poetry/Posers/Posers.html

On Wed, 11 Jun 2008 17:11:22 -0700 (PDT), William
 wrote:

> On 11 Jun, 09:37, bank...@cix.co.uk wrote:
> > The last I heard
> > (and I'll admit this is going back a few years) the Arts Council would
> > not accept Morris as an `art'
> 
> Whereas encasing houses in concrete, or failing to make your bed...

On Wed, 28 May 2008 06:20:03 -0500, anahata 
wrote:

>
>Anyway, most people wouldn't even recognise a rapper or longsword as a 
>sword, and neither type has an even remotely sharp edge. They're just 
>flat sticks, or metal strips and for rapper they've often got wooden 
>handles on both ends so there's not even a sharp point.
>
>Injuries do happen in rapper, of course, but for quite unrelated reasons.
>

When you first start as a rapper dancer, you are told: "Never let go
of your sword". Why not? Well if you let go, the chap on the other
side of the set will get walloped with a lump of broomshank attached
to half-a-yard of pre-tensioned bed-spring. Not pleasant, and
definitely not likely to make you friends, 

-- 

Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam