We have briefly discussed the new regulations which are put in the paths 
of musicians trying to visit this country.  Now there's a petition 
calling on the Government to pull back.  Its wording is:

/Quote starts/
To:  UK Parliament

The UK Home Office has introduced new bureaucratic procedures for 
organisations that wish to invite non-EU artists and academics to the 
UK. As professionals committed to the principles of internationalism and 
cultural exchange, we are dismayed by these new regulations - which will 
curb our invitations to non-EU artists and academics to visit the UK for 
talks, artist residencies, conferences and temporary exhibitions.

The system is costly to both the host organisation and to the visitor, 
and has already meant a number of cancelled exhibitions and concerts. 
All non-EU visitors now must apply for a visa in person, and supply 
biometric data, electronic fingerprint scans and a digital photograph. 
The Home Office’s 158-page guideline document also outlines new 
controls over visitors’ day-to-day activity: visitors must show that 
they have at least £800 pounds of personal savings, which have been 
held for at least three months prior to the date of their application; 
the host organisation must keep copies of the visitor’s passport and 
their UK Biometric Card, and a history of their contact details; and if 
the visitor does not turn up to their studio or place of work, or their 
whereabouts is unknown, the organisation is legally obliged to inform 
the UK Border Agency.

We, the undersigned, believe that these Home Office restrictions 
discriminate against our overseas colleagues on the grounds of their 
nationality and financial resources, and will be particularly 
detrimental to artists from developing countries, and those with low 
income. Such restrictions will damage the vital contribution made by 
global artists and scholars to cultural, intellectual and civic life in 
the UK.
/Quote ends/

And you can sign it at:
<http://www.petitiononline.com/MCvisit/petition-sign.html>
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

Molly Mockford wrote:
> We have briefly discussed the new regulations which are put in the paths 
> of musicians trying to visit this country.  Now there's a petition 
> calling on the Government to pull back.  Its wording is:
> 
> /Quote starts/
> To:  UK Parliament
> 
> The UK Home Office has introduced new bureaucratic procedures for 
> organisations that wish to invite non-EU artists and academics to the 
> UK. As professionals committed to the principles of internationalism and 
> cultural exchange, we are dismayed by these new regulations - which will 
> curb our invitations to non-EU artists and academics to visit the UK for 
> talks, artist residencies, conferences and temporary exhibitions.
> 
> The system is costly to both the host organisation and to the visitor, 
> and has already meant a number of cancelled exhibitions and concerts. 
> All non-EU visitors now must apply for a visa in person, and supply 
> biometric data, electronic fingerprint scans and a digital photograph. 
> The Home Office’s 158-page guideline document also outlines new controls 
> over visitors’ day-to-day activity: visitors must show that they have at 
> least £800 pounds of personal savings, which have been held for at least 
> three months prior to the date of their application; the host 
> organisation must keep copies of the visitor’s passport and their UK 
> Biometric Card, and a history of their contact details; and if the 
> visitor does not turn up to their studio or place of work, or their 
> whereabouts is unknown, the organisation is legally obliged to inform 
> the UK Border Agency.
> 
> We, the undersigned, believe that these Home Office restrictions 
> discriminate against our overseas colleagues on the grounds of their 
> nationality and financial resources, and will be particularly 
> detrimental to artists from developing countries, and those with low 
> income. Such restrictions will damage the vital contribution made by 
> global artists and scholars to cultural, intellectual and civic life in 
> the UK.
> /Quote ends/
> 
> And you can sign it at:
> <http://www.petitiononline.com/MCvisit/petition-sign.html>

<rant mode-on>

Not a chance.

They've just sent a 19 year old Canadian girl back because of the new 
and completely daft rules relating to forced marriages and another 
Canadian lady back because her husband is just out of the army,  has 
become self employed and hasn't yet got three years records and so can't 
prove he can keep her.

The immigration authorities are scared to bend any rules because the 
Daily Hate and its friends will crucify them and the politicians won't 
relax the rules because it makes them 'look soft on immigration'.

What it means is that people who obey the rules are not coming here, 
and people slipping in illegally or on a false premiss are getting in 
with little or no trouble because the systems,  pretty obviously,  don't 
work.

The immigration policy of this country is being run by Daily Mail 
editorial writers.

<rant mode-off>

The desire to switch on a very loud amplifier,  plug in an electric 
guitar and play highly distorted blues until I crack a window pane seems 
very pronounced this morning...

-- 
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of 
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat 
single handed with a quarterstaff.

In message <5rqSRUmZvysKFw2z@molly.mockford>, Molly Mockford 
 writes
>We have briefly discussed the new regulations which are put in the 
>paths of musicians trying to visit this country.  Now there's a 
>petition calling on the Government to pull back.

Actually, Molly, there are a great many factual inaccuracies in the 
wording of the petition below and though it would make my life a lot 
easier if I didn't have to get Certificates of Sponsorship for incoming 
non-EU artists, I couldn't sign something that was worded so badly. Note 
I don't comment on the 'academics' bit. I can only say what happens in 
the case of entertainers and sportspeople (Tier Five) - which is the 
band I am licensed (as a Sponsor) to operate in. Scroll down for 
comments:

>Its wording is:
>
>/Quote starts/
>To:  UK Parliament
>
>The UK Home Office has introduced new bureaucratic procedures for 
>organisations that wish to invite non-EU artists and academics to the 
>UK.

There have always been bureaucratic procedures. Yes the way the 'work 
permits' (now called 'certificates of sponsorship') are obtained has 
changed, but there was always a requirement to have a permit before 
entering the country to work. Prior to November 08 it was made by paper 
application by the promoter or agent and even though the promoter or 
agent did not have to have a licence (that cost money) they still had to 
be able to prove they were a legitimate UK 'employer' - and this was 
checked on rigorously.

>As professionals committed to the principles of internationalism and 
>cultural exchange, we are dismayed by these new regulations - which 
>will curb our invitations to non-EU artists and academics to visit the 
>UK for talks, artist residencies, conferences and temporary exhibitions.
>
>The system is costly to both the host organisation and to the visitor,

Actually the new system is cheaper for performers than the old one was. 
Though we sponsors have to pay £400 for a licence and go through an 
initial application process, the actual application per incoming 
performer only costs £10. It used to be £190.

>and has already meant a number of cancelled exhibitions and concerts. 
>All non-EU visitors now must apply for a visa in person, and supply 
>biometric data, electronic fingerprint scans and a digital photograph.

Not true if performers are coming in for less than three months from a 
country which has no requirement for its citizens to have a visitor's 
visa to travel to the UK. i.e. A South African does need 'entry 
clearance' from the British Embassy in South Africa (Pretoria) before 
travelling because all South Africans need a visa to travel to the UK, 
even for a holiday. An American or an Australian or a Canadian does not 
need entry clearance before travelling IF their stay here will be for 
less than three months. (If they are working for more than three months 
they do need to do entry clearance in their country of origin.)

>The Home Office’s 158-page guideline document also outlines new 
>controls over visitors’ day-to-day activity: visitors must show that 
>they have at least £800 pounds of personal savings, which have been 
>held for at least three months prior to the date of their application; 
>the host organisation must keep copies of the visitor’s passport and 
>their UK Biometric Card, and a history of their contact details; and if 
>the visitor does not turn up to their studio or place of work, or their 
>whereabouts is unknown, the organisation is legally obliged to inform 
>the UK Border Agency.

Those controls are enforced very lightly. There was always a requirement 
for the person applying for the old work permit (Pre November 2008) to 
inform the Home Office should the circumstances of a person's stay 
change.

As a Sponsor I have to keep records of who us coming in and out and 
where they are working in case of a spot check or query. I don't have to 
show those records to anyone.

There is no requirement for the incoming artist to show they have access 
to £800 if the licensed sponsor ticks the box on the application 
(online) to vouch for the artists and to say that they are supporting 
them financially so that the incoming artist will be unlikely to sign on 
for benefits while they are here. (That's really what the 800 is all 
about. They want to make sure that folks don't arrive and latch on to 
the benefits system.) I always tick the box for my agency artists though 
if I'm making an application on behalf of a performer who is known to me 
but not part of my agency roster, I don't thick the box and I warn them 
about the £800. Sometimes they don't even get asked for this at the 
point of immigration, but the MIGHT do so I ask them to have it in 
place. So far it has not been a problem.
>
>We, the undersigned, believe that these Home Office restrictions 
>discriminate against our overseas colleagues on the grounds of their 
>nationality and financial resources, and will be particularly 
>detrimental to artists from developing countries, and those with low 
>income. Such restrictions will damage the vital contribution made by 
>global artists and scholars to cultural, intellectual and civic life in 
>the UK.
>/Quote ends/
>
>And you can sign it at:
><http://www.petitiononline.com/MCvisit/petition-sign.html>

So far I've found the new system to work reasonably well, to be cheaper 
than the old one and it only falls down when a performer completely 
fails to check up on the requirements for entry into the UK prior to 
travelling.

I can't comment on academics because that's not Tier Five (entertainers 
and sportspeople), but I can hardly imagine that it would be more 
difficult than entertainers.

I just don't get all the woo-woo panic. It's not like there hasn't been 
a requirement for paperwork in the past and it's not like every other 
country in the world allows performers across their borders without work 
permits. As a musician, try getting a work P3 visa for the USA and 
(comparatively) our system looks deliriously, gloriously helpful and 
totally benign.

It's really no big deal if performers do their homework before they come 
- and - really - if you're going to work abroad why wouldn't you check 
up on immigration requirements before booking a tour and travelling?

Jacey

-- 
Jacey Bedford

Jacey Bedford wrote:
> 
, try getting a work P3 visa for the USA and
> (comparatively) our system looks deliriously, gloriously helpful and 
> totally benign.
> 
> 
> Jacey
> 
Try getting a non-immigrant visa for spouse of a US citizen to enter the 
US for a 6-month stay.  The immigration department regards that as 
tantamount to declaring that you want to enter permanently but are 
claiming otherwise. My daughter is married to a septic, and there are so 
many forms, interviews, approvals, citations and money required that I 
have advised them to go somewhere more welcoming....North Korea, Iran, 
Somalia.....

Tony F wrote:
> Jacey Bedford wrote:
>>
> , try getting a work P3 visa for the USA and
>> (comparatively) our system looks deliriously, gloriously helpful and 
>> totally benign.
>>
>>
>> Jacey
>>
> Try getting a non-immigrant visa for spouse of a US citizen to enter the 
> US for a 6-month stay.  The immigration department regards that as 
> tantamount to declaring that you want to enter permanently but are 
> claiming otherwise. My daughter is married to a septic, and there are so 
> many forms, interviews, approvals, citations and money required that I 
> have advised them to go somewhere more welcoming....North Korea, Iran, 
> Somalia.....

But possibly not the UK.

So far getting my wife settled here has cost us a small fortune,  has 
involved me in  a huge level of paperwork,  has forced me to stand about 
in deeply unwelcoming government offices (wet concrete floors,  a squad 
of huge looming Home Office cops,  metal detectors and all the rest of 
it) and has made me something of an expert in British immigration law 
and regulations,  and all without any real purpose.

Thirty years ago you turned up at the point of entry with your passports 
and marriage lines and the passport got stamped and that was it,  now 
you play silly paper games for months and shell out a fortune and the 
result is just the same...

Still,  I'm doing better than an acquaintance who married a foreign 
student while she was here.

He's still reeling from being told his marriage may not be valid because 
he married a foreigner without Home Office permission,  oh,  and she has 
to leave the country while her application for a visa is being considered...

I'd write a song,  but it would be far too bitter...

-- 
William Black

"Any number under six"

The answer given by Englishman Richard Peeke when asked by the Duke of 
Medina Sidonia how many Spanish sword and buckler men he could beat 
single handed with a quarterstaff.

In message <lg2tm.90321$uC1.49736@newsfe18.ams2>, Tony F 
 writes
>Jacey Bedford wrote:
>>
>, try getting a work P3 visa for the USA and
>> (comparatively) our system looks deliriously, gloriously helpful and 
>>totally benign.
>>   Jacey
>>
>Try getting a non-immigrant visa for spouse of a US citizen to enter 
>the US for a 6-month stay.  The immigration department regards that as 
>tantamount to declaring that you want to enter permanently but are 
>claiming otherwise. My daughter is married to a septic, and there are 
>so many forms, interviews, approvals, citations and money required that 
>I have advised them to go somewhere more welcoming....North Korea, 
>Iran, Somalia.....


Yes I do appreciate that visas can be tricky. I have a friend who 
married a US citizen and his immigration process into the USA has been 
nightmarish.

Jacey
-- 
Jacey Bedford