"Beeswing"  wrote in message 
news:QBB5m.31420$uV3.11804@newsfe22.ams2...

p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?

if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best

--
new song, in memory of my father http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

Hi

yes it is a reference to Richard Thompson,. Another great songwriter

"Gill Smith"  wrote in message 
news:NqOdnfsY2pQY7MHXnZ2dnUVZ8i2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
> "Beeswing"  wrote in message 
> news:QBB5m.31420$uV3.11804@newsfe22.ams2...
>
> p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?
>
> if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best
>
> --
> new song, in memory of my father http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
>

"Beeswing"  wrote in message 
news:JE57m.1$Mt.0@newsfe30.ams2...
> Hi
>
> yes it is a reference to Richard Thompson,. Another great songwriter

I'm not particularly enamoured of RT's own version - it borders on the 
mawkish

I've been trying to find the really good cover of that song by someone whose 
name I can't remember

he's an old timer, playing it with much elan

can't locate it on iTunes

--
song in memory of my father http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
and other greatest hits

Gill Smith wrote:

>  
> I've been trying to find the really good cover of that song by someone whose 
> name I can't remember
> 

The CD is called 'His Master's Voice'. His name is....

It's in the shed. Hang on.

JF

JF wrote:
> Gill Smith wrote:
> 
>>  
>> I've been trying to find the really good cover of that song by someone 
>> whose name I can't remember
>>
> 
> The CD is called 'His Master's Voice'. His name is....
> 
> It's in the shed. Hang on.
> 
> JF
Dave Burland?

Mark Bluemel wrote:

>> It's in the shed. Hang on.

> Dave Burland?

That's the chap.

JF

>> "Beeswing"
>> p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?
>> if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best
> yes it is a reference to Richard Thompson

Or you might check out the Stewarts of Blair "Queen Among the
Heather", which is the same story told in better words with a
VASTLY better tune.  (And I've never heard any performance of
it that wasn't incomparably more passionate than any performance
of anything by Richard Thompson).

There is a reason why so many people think all folk music is
mediocre crap, and the adulation accorded to bozos like Thompson
is a large part of it.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Mark Bluemel wrote:

>JF wrote:

[ re Beeswing]

>> The CD is called 'His Master's Voice'. His name is....
>> 
>> It's in the shed. Hang on.

>Dave Burland?

Great performer and CD, but Beeswing isn't on it.

How about "Coda" by Roy Bailey, track 8.

Chris

Chris J Dixon wrote:

>>>
>>> It's in the shed. Hang on.
> 
>> Dave Burland?
> 
> Great performer and CD, but Beeswing isn't on it.

Nor is it. Should have ventured out.
> 
> How about "Coda" by Roy Bailey, track 8.

Maybe I've got this on a cassette somewhere, I've got a (ahem) 
shed-load of stuff off the radio... I may be some time. Years...

JF

Totally agree with John B.  Thompsons voice has greatly improved and his 
songwriting is among the best.  Beeswing is not my favourite but just listen 
to 'Take care the road you choose' or 'dimming of the day'.  I do understand 
why some people (probably the majority) don't get RT but lets not blame him 
for all of life's ills.

"JohnB"  wrote in message 
news:8d3774ce-47fb-457d-af18-3966cabc65b2@r2g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
On 15 July, 09:00, Jack Campin - bogus address
 wrote:
> >> "Beeswing"
> >> p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?
> >> if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best
> > yes it is a reference to Richard Thompson
>
> Or you might check out the Stewarts of Blair "Queen Among the
> Heather", which is the same story told in better words with a
> VASTLY better tune. (And I've never heard any performance of
> it that wasn't incomparably more passionate than any performance
> of anything by Richard Thompson).
>
> There is a reason why so many people think all folk music is
> mediocre crap, and the adulation accorded to bozos like Thompson
> is a large part of it.
>

Well, that can't go unchallenged!
I agree there are a lot of people out there who think folk music to be
dull, repetetive and mediocre (but there are people who would say the
same of blues, heavy metal and modern dance music) - but I would
suggest that a lot of these people would be clueless as to who Richard
Thompson is too.
Ok, I'll accept that you're not a fan of Thompson but it's a little
extreme to blame him for "a large part" of the poor view many take of
folk music.
Thompson's singing has never been his strong suit - though he has
improved notably over the years - but the songs have many fans. This
is obvious by the number of Thompson originals that crop up in so many
performers' repertoires, mine included.
In my view, the poor image of the folk scene (from within) is largely
fuelled by the large number of amateurs who are still stuck were they
were when they started, having barely improved their technique whilst
tackling the same songs they started with all those years ago (plus
this polite way we applaud everything). From without, the stereotype
of folkies as beer-bellied (and tankard carrying) bearded blokes
singing shanties slightly off key or any number of other cartoon send-
ups is not sufficiently challenged. Ask random shoppers in the high
street and you'll soon get the picture.

Would it not be fairer to say that the general public's view of what 
constitutes "folk" and its proponents is conditioned by the mass media's 
  presentation of such?

Ask anyone who has been interviewed by a newspaper or radio station, how 
accurately they have been represented by the final published material, 
to get an idea of whether that is a good thing or not!

As far as the media are concerned, anybody that plays solo acoustic 
guitar is instantly "folk", because categorising them in terms of what 
they play is too taxing for their poor, overworked little brains.

To my mind, RT ceased to be a "folk" performer a long time back, (by my 
own definition anyway) but that doesn't make him a bad person, and I'd 
still cross the road for a live gig - in the way I wouldn't for, say, 
James Blunt.

Actually I might throw myself into the road to avoid James Blunt............

I agree totally.  I'm sure Richard Thompson hates being labelled as 'folk
music'.  Most music retailers (I still want to say record shops) have a folk
section without much actual folk in it.

"Tony F"  wrote in message 
news:20V7m.5150$TZ2.3326@newsfe13.ams2...
> Would it not be fairer to say that the general public's view of what 
> constitutes "folk" and its proponents is conditioned by the mass media's 
> presentation of such?
>
> Ask anyone who has been interviewed by a newspaper or radio station, how 
> accurately they have been represented by the final published material, to 
> get an idea of whether that is a good thing or not!
>
> As far as the media are concerned, anybody that plays solo acoustic guitar 
> is instantly "folk", because categorising them in terms of what they play 
> is too taxing for their poor, overworked little brains.
>
> To my mind, RT ceased to be a "folk" performer a long time back, (by my 
> own definition anyway) but that doesn't make him a bad person, and I'd 
> still cross the road for a live gig - in the way I wouldn't for, say, 
> James Blunt.
>
> Actually I might throw myself into the road to avoid James 
> Blunt............

"Jack Campin - bogus address"  wrote in message 
news:bogus-CA5285.09005615072009@news.albasani.net...
>>> "Beeswing"
>>> p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?
>>> if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best
>> yes it is a reference to Richard Thompson
>
> Or you might check out the Stewarts of Blair "Queen Among the
> Heather", which is the same story told in better words with a
> VASTLY better tune.  (And I've never heard any performance of
> it that wasn't incomparably more passionate than any performance
> of anything by Richard Thompson).
>
> There is a reason why so many people think all folk music is
> mediocre crap, and the adulation accorded to bozos like Thompson
> is a large part of it.

I blame Cecil Sharp

Time and again, on Mike Hardin's prog, acres of turgid dross, usually
contemporary, are broken up by marvellous songs which, you be guessing
it, are trad.

And the reason they survived, unaided, was because people could - and wanted 
to
- remember they

I've heard "The Seeds Of Love" a couple of times and I still can't remember 
the tune.
Is there one?

--
song in memory of my father http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
and other greatest hits

Gill Smith wrote:

> Time and again, on Mike Hardin's prog, acres of turgid dross, usually
> contemporary, are broken up by marvellous songs which, you be guessing
> it, are trad.
> 
> And the reason they survived, unaided, was because people could - and wanted 
> to
> - remember they

I've been saying this for a decade.

Nobody's listening...

I meet a lot of kids who study popular music and performance at college 
and university and the decision to write and perform their own material 
acoustically rather than in a band is just a career move.

But they call it 'folk'...

Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or play,
although you do have to emote with your material which some people find 
difficulty,
and so the rather highly technically competent people playing for
money these days aren't terribly interested in playing it...

-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

Richard Robinson wrote:
> William Black said:
>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or play,
> 
> This is hardly fair on all traditions.
> 

True.

Would you prefer:

'Much traditional'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
play,'

I'm a reasonable man about most things.

Although I have issues with people who want to borrow my musical 
instruments and fishing rods...


-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

William Black wrote:
> Richard Robinson wrote:
>> William Black said:
>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or play,
>>
>> This is hardly fair on all traditions.
>>
> 
> True.
> 
> Would you prefer:
> 
> 'Much traditional'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
> play,'
> 
> I'm a reasonable man about most things.


How about "Much traditional folk isn't technically challenging to sing 
or play badly" ?


-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

Marjorie wrote:
> William Black wrote:
>> Richard Robinson wrote:
>>> William Black said:
>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
>>>> play,
>>>
>>> This is hardly fair on all traditions.
>>>
>>
>> True.
>>
>> Would you prefer:
>>
>> 'Much traditional'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing 
>> or play,'
>>
>> I'm a reasonable man about most things.
> 
> 
> How about "Much traditional folk isn't technically challenging to sing 
> or play badly" ?
> 

No,  that's just plain wrong.

Much folk isn't hard to sing or play,  it is hard to play or sing with 
feeling.

But singing with feeling isn't fashionable these days.


-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

William Black wrote:
> Marjorie wrote:
>> William Black wrote:
>>> Richard Robinson wrote:
>>>> William Black said:
>>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
>>>>> play,
>>>>
>>>> This is hardly fair on all traditions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> True.
>>>
>>> Would you prefer:
>>>
>>> 'Much traditional'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing 
>>> or play,'
>>>
>>> I'm a reasonable man about most things.
>>
>>
>> How about "Much traditional folk isn't technically challenging to sing 
>> or play badly" ?
>>
> 
> No,  that's just plain wrong.
> 
> Much folk isn't hard to sing or play,  it is hard to play or sing with 
> feeling.
> 
> But singing with feeling isn't fashionable these days.
> 
> 
I'd say that playing/singing it without feeling was doing it badly. 
That's a good part of what I meant.

-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

Marjorie wrote:
> William Black wrote:
>> Marjorie wrote:
>>> William Black wrote:
>>>> Richard Robinson wrote:
>>>>> William Black said:
>>>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
>>>>>> play,
>>>>>
>>>>> This is hardly fair on all traditions.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> True.
>>>>
>>>> Would you prefer:
>>>>
>>>> 'Much traditional'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing 
>>>> or play,'
>>>>
>>>> I'm a reasonable man about most things.
>>>
>>>
>>> How about "Much traditional folk isn't technically challenging to 
>>> sing or play badly" ?
>>>
>>
>> No,  that's just plain wrong.
>>
>> Much folk isn't hard to sing or play,  it is hard to play or sing with 
>> feeling.
>>
>> But singing with feeling isn't fashionable these days.
>>
>>
> I'd say that playing/singing it without feeling was doing it badly. 

The problem is that we're in a minority.

The last festival I went to was a sea song/shanty event.

Almost all renditions were the same,  and obviously from the same book.

There are only so many times in a weekend you can stand being 'bound for 
South Australia' by a group that looks (complete with embroidered sky 
blue jumpers) and sounds like half a dozen bored school music teachers 
(now children,  sing along with me) who thought 'wouldn't it be a good 
idea if...' without going to the pub and getting wrecked for the rest of 
the event...


-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

"Stewart Robert Hinsley"  wrote in message 
news:OiwXz1c5p0XKFwIm@meden.invalid...
> In message , Gill Smith 
>  writes
>>"Beeswing"  wrote in message
>>news:QBB5m.31420$uV3.11804@newsfe22.ams2...
>>
>>p.s. is that a reference to Richard Thompson?
>>
>>if it isn't, then check out that song. It's one of his best
>>
> I'd ask who did the good version of that (I don't particularly care for 
> the versions doing the rounds at the moment), except that other people may 
> not agree with me which was the good version.
>
> -- 
> Stewart Hinsley

Try Christy Moore's version (1 of them anyway):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0F6Wy6w3_4&feature=related

Or Daniel Lapp's take on the song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6QEQEgFMGI&feature=related

And, just for fun, one of my favourite RT numbers (quality isn't very good 
though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2XnBHwdd2k&feature=related

And that one definitely isn't folk Jack!

BigAl

Jacey Bedford wrote:

>> Then you are not doing it right
> 
> <Splork!>
> (Sound of coffee being exhaled through nose all over keyboard.)
> 
> Jacey

> (He's got a point.)

Yebbut. It's folk music -- it also belongs to those of us who do 
it simply, not just the stars who tune their guitars to strange 
effect and wouldn't dream of singing in the sort of pub where 
making them shut up and listen is about as complicated as it gets.

If it's worth doing, it's worth doing badly.

JF

Jacey Bedford wrote:
> In message <$r5u9uAeZtZKFwuK@hartown.demon.co.uk>, gordon jones 
>  writes
>>>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
>>>>>> play,
>>
>> Then you are not doing it right
> 
> <Splork!>
> (Sound of coffee being exhaled through nose all over keyboard.)
> 
> Jacey
> (He's got a point.)

So have I.

It's not written to be difficult.  It's written to be sung in company 
and to be enjoyable.



-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

gordon jones wrote:
>>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or 
>>>>> play,
> 
> Then you are not doing it right

I'm good enough to get paid to do it (well, I was)...

Although the last time I got paid was on a beach in Goa...

And I didn't expect to get paid either...

-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

Richard Robinson wrote:
> William Black said:

>> Although the last time I got paid was on a beach in Goa...
>>
>> And I didn't expect to get paid either...
> 
> I, ah, notice you don't say what that was for ...
> 

If I remember rightly it was 'William Brown'...



-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

Richard Robinson wrote:
> William Black said:
>> Jacey Bedford wrote:
>>> In message <$r5u9uAeZtZKFwuK@hartown.demon.co.uk>, gordon jones 
>>>>>>>> Traditional 'folk' isn't technically challenging to either sing or
>>>>>>>> play,
>>>> Then you are not doing it right
>>> <Splork!> (Sound of coffee being exhaled through nose all over keyboard.)
>>>
>>> Jacey (He's got a point.)
>> So have I.
>>
>> It's not written to be difficult.  It's written to be sung in company and
>> to be enjoyable.
> 
> Written, eh ? That's a whole other bucket of snakes.
> 
> 

Oh isn't it though...


-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

Molly Mockford wrote:
> At 22:47:45 on Wed, 22 Jul 2009, William Black 
>  wrote in 
> <h481qg$qgv$3@news.eternal-september.org>:
> 
>> Richard Robinson wrote:
>>> William Black said:
>>
>>>> Although the last time I got paid was on a beach in Goa...
>>>>
>>>> And I didn't expect to get paid either...
>>>  I, ah, notice you don't say what that was for ...
>>
>> If I remember rightly it was 'William Brown'...
> 
> "Keep that wheel a-turning..."?  I haven't heard that in decades!  And 
> it's a damn' good song, and deserves to be sung more often.
> 
> (Unless you mean a totally different William Brown, in which case "I'll 
> thcream and thcream till I'm thick.  I can, you know"!)

You may put your 'Violet Elizabeth' impersonation back in its box,  it 
was indeed 'that' William Brown,  and,  as you say,  it's a song that 
deserves to be sung more often...

After all...

It's not as if it's difficult to do well...  :-)



-- 
William Black

So I looked at the script
It was six weeks filming in the desert.
No girls,  no dialogue,  just guys with guns.
They said "Do you want wages or a percentage?"
It looked like a certain turkey.
When they came the second time I was ready.
I haven't had to work since...

Eli Wallach on his roles in
"The Magnificent Seven"
and "The Good the Bad and The Ugly

"Zeke"  wrote in message 
news:52775f19-ea02-4efc-a01a-7debb74b7ceb@k6g2000yqn.googlegroups.com...
>
> For God's sake, can't you just revel in the fact that someone is
> getting off their backside to perform - be it good, bad or indifferent
> - without analising any criticising it to death?

<clapclapclap>

Steve
--
http://www.fivetrees.com