From The Mirror newspaper so it may not be entirely true...

Moris men school ban.

Morris dancers have been dropped from a school's diversity day because 
they black their faces with burnt cork.

The Motley Morris Men continue the tradition used to hide dancers' 
identities since the 17th century.

But they were axed by Chantry Primary School in Grevesend, Kent.

Head Hazel King said: "We found ourselves in a difficult position of 
weighing up any potential offence."

Dancer Pete Hargreaves: "They say people might be offended, without 
investigating why we do it."

"Alan Lowey"  wrote in message 
news:qAx2m.1$4t4.0@newsfe02.ams2...
> From The Mirror newspaper so it may not be entirely true...
>
> Moris men school ban.
>
> Morris dancers have been dropped from a school's diversity day because 
> they black their faces with burnt cork.

how silly

it washes off

--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8123664.stm

How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to
... how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
traditionally English or Welsh!

On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:59:10 +0100, "Smurf"  wrote:

> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8123664.stm 


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In message , Java Jive 
 writes
>How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
>be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to
>... how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
>traditionally English or Welsh!
>
>On Wed, 1 Jul 2009 08:59:10 +0100, "Smurf"  wrote:
>
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/kent/8123664.stm
>
>
And of course, the Scots have to be careful about where they do their 
sword dancing. They're likely to be done for possession of offensive 
weapons. And what about their bagpipes? These too are intended to put 
the wind up (no pun) the enemy, and therefore are more than a little 
suspect.
-- 
Ian

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:16:25 +0100, Java Jive wrote:

> How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
> be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to ...
> how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
> traditionally English or Welsh!

The real absurdity is that those who take offence are mostly political-
correctness fanatics who seem to be taking offence on behalf of the dark-
skinned ethnic minorities they have appointed themselves to represent.

If I was black I'm not sure that I'd like the implication of being told 
what to think, especially there are far worse and more real racist issues 
to make a fuss about.

-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk  ==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

Java Jive wrote:
> How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
> be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to
> ... how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
> traditionally English or Welsh!
> 


what's all that about blacking up being to avoid being recognised?

Surely it's because it is Morris - Moorish dancing. That's where Morris 
dancing comes from, back to the time of the Crusades, and 400 years ago 
it was common enough for the word to be written as Moorish or Morris, 
either way.

It's a remnant of an early multicultural Europe.


David

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:22:48 +0100, David Kilpatrick
 wrote:

>Java Jive wrote:
>> How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
>> be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to
>> ... how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
>> traditionally English or Welsh!
>> 
>
>
>what's all that about blacking up being to avoid being recognised?
>
>Surely it's because it is Morris - Moorish dancing. That's where Morris 
>dancing comes from, back to the time of the Crusades, and 400 years ago 
>it was common enough for the word to be written as Moorish or Morris, 
>either way.
>
>It's a remnant of an early multicultural Europe.
>

Don't tell the PC brigade that - mustn't confuse them with facts!

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:22:48 +0100, David Kilpatrick wrote:
> 
> Surely it's because it is Morris - Moorish dancing.

I thought that had been debunked along with the pagan fertility ritual 
theory...

> It's a remnant of an early multicultural Europe.

You're on firmer ground there - it's quite possible that the steps and 
figures, or at least the originals of which the morris might be a copy/
parody, were from courtly dances imported from elsewhere in Europe.

(galliard => galley etc.)

-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk  ==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

And dos a dos (Fr back to back) => dosey do

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 07:21:31 -0500, anahata 
wrote:
> 
> (galliard => galley etc.)


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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:55:30 +0100, Java Jive wrote:

> And dos a dos (Fr back to back) => dosey do

Well yes, but unlike "galley" that's a country dancing term, not morris 
that I know of - in fact Cotwold morrisers call the equivalent figure 
"back to back", which doesn't add so much weight to the argument for it 
being a foreign import.

-- 
Anahata
anahata@treewind.co.uk  ==//== 01638 720444
http://www.treewind.co.uk ==//== http://www.myspace.com/maryanahata

It's not clear that anyone would actually _be_ offended.  They were
just afraid someone might.

It's a shame that a school didn't use the occasion to teach people
about the background of the practice and that they shouldn't jump to
conclusions about why the dancers dressed up that way.

Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

> It's a shame that a school didn't use the occasion to teach people
> about the background of the practice and that they shouldn't jump to
> conclusions about why the dancers dressed up that way.

In fact not a lot is known about the background to the dance.  It
seems to be part of the pan-European tradition of masked dances
rather than having anything to do with Africa - there is nothing
but the similarity of sound to suggest there is anything Moorish
about it (by which token we might as well conclude that polkas are
totemic dances in honour of the divine polecat).

Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon:

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/carnival.html

which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.

I imagine some schoolteachers might think this

http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/Masked-Dancers.jpg

is offensive to shaggy creatures with big teeth.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
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> Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon [...]
> which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
> imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
> border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.

Actually it occurs to me that are *some* of these traditions you
might want to keep out of schools, on the grounds that they'd scare
the bejeezus out of small kids:

http://s3.images.com/huge.73.368867.JPG

but not, I think, for offending the sensibilities of ghouls.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Hi


If face blacking is purely to avoid being recognised, then perhaps the
Morris team should all wear burkahs instead - that will probably be
allowed!!!!                8^)           

Regards

KGB

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:13:19 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
 wrote:

>Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon:
>
>http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/carnival.html
>
>which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
>imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
>border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.
>
>I imagine some schoolteachers might think this
>
>http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/Masked-Dancers.jpg
>
>is offensive to shaggy creatures with big teeth.


How about black faces /and/ masks?

http://www.4theweb.co.uk/pics/black_dog_molly.jpg
http://www.4theweb.co.uk/pics/black_dog_molly_2.jpg

Oh, and cross dressing.

"anahata"  wrote in message 
news:ZPKdnd6Un_Ay8dbXnZ2dnUVZ8q5i4p2d@brightview.co.uk...
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 14:55:30 +0100, Java Jive wrote:
>
>> And dos a dos (Fr back to back) => dosey do
>
> Well yes, but unlike "galley" that's a country dancing term, not morris
> that I know of - in fact Cotwold morrisers call the equivalent figure
> "back to back", which doesn't add so much weight to the argument for it
> being a foreign import.
>
We NW morris dancers do call it "dos si dos" though.

ally

"David Kilpatrick"  wrote in message 
news:XMWdnRjGIaaT2tbXnZ2dnUVZ8kudnZ2d@bt.com...
> Java Jive wrote:
>> How absurd, so PC that even a traditional English/Welsh pastime cannot
>> be performed in the traditional manner for fear of giving offence to
>> ... how shall I phrase this ... a minority of people who are not
>> traditionally English or Welsh!
>>
>
>
> what's all that about blacking up being to avoid being recognised?
>
> Surely it's because it is Morris - Moorish dancing. That's where Morris 
> dancing comes from, back to the time of the Crusades, and 400 years ago it 
> was common enough for the word to be written as Moorish or Morris, either 
> way.
>
> It's a remnant of an early multicultural Europe.
>
The black faces belong to Border Morris, though, and this originates on the 
English/Welsh borders. It's unlikely to have anything to do with Moors or 
Moorish - in fact it's unlikely any sort of morris dancing is really 
connected to the moors, although it's possible the word "morris" itself has 
some connection. All the border morris people I've talked to - and there 
have been quite a few! - state that the black faces were to prevent the 
dancers from being recognised by their bosses when they went out dancing to 
earn a little more money out of hours. A lot of border dancers these days 
are very creative and paint their faces in other colours - there were some 
gorgeous blue/silver faces at Scarborough Fayre, for example - 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allybeag/3668468715 . Others wear masks - 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allybeag/3664162794/in/set-72157620164639213/ .

ally

"Jack Campin - bogus address"  wrote in message 
news:bogus-CB8766.23235001072009@news.albasani.net...
>> Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon [...]
>> which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
>> imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
>> border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.
>
> Actually it occurs to me that are *some* of these traditions you
> might want to keep out of schools, on the grounds that they'd scare
> the bejeezus out of small kids:
>
> http://s3.images.com/huge.73.368867.JPG
>
Kids would LOVE that!

ally

"KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message 
news:4a4c5d8c.864765@news.enta.net...
>
> Hi
>
>
> If face blacking is purely to avoid being recognised, then perhaps the
> Morris team should all wear burkahs instead - that will probably be
> allowed!!!!                8^)
>
Wouldn't surprise me at all if it had already been done.

ally

"Geoff Berrow"  wrote in message 
news:9pro45p9r4anjqgas2jemjup7tpv916ra3@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:13:19 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
>  wrote:
>
>>Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon:
>>
>>http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/02/carnival.html
>>
>>which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
>>imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
>>border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.
>>
>>I imagine some schoolteachers might think this
>>
>>http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/Masked-Dancers.jpg
>>
>>is offensive to shaggy creatures with big teeth.
>
>
> How about black faces /and/ masks?
>
> http://www.4theweb.co.uk/pics/black_dog_molly.jpg
> http://www.4theweb.co.uk/pics/black_dog_molly_2.jpg
>
> Oh, and cross dressing.

Ah well, yes, but they're molly dancers, who are all barking. [deliberate 
pun - sorry] ;-)

ally

a l l y wrote:

> 
> Ah well, yes, but they're molly dancers, who are all barking. [deliberate 
> pun - sorry] ;-)

The impressive one there is on the right -- the pharaonic beard 
with the white and black striation with added human hand decoration.

JF

So, where do the black faces really come from?  What has black faces
in the Welsh Border area?  Ah, I remember now ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Llanon_sheep.jpg

It must be lonely out there ...

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 10:22:41 +0100, "a l l y"
 wrote:
> 
> The black faces belong to Border Morris, though, and this originates on the 
> English/Welsh borders. It's unlikely to have anything to do with Moors or 
> Moorish

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On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:23:50 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
 wrote:

>> Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon [...]
>> which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
>> imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
>> border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.
>
>Actually it occurs to me that are *some* of these traditions you
>might want to keep out of schools, on the grounds that they'd scare
>the bejeezus out of small kids:
>
>http://s3.images.com/huge.73.368867.JPG
>
>but not, I think, for offending the sensibilities of ghouls.
>

I'm reminded of a certain team of rapper dancers who somewhat
infamously performed (in private, thankfully - if a hall full of
morris dancers counts as that) dressed in the most traditional English
dress they could think of: woad.

Only woad, that is. (actually I doubt the authenticity, based only on
the lack of supply of woad in Hammersmith, but I can't prove anything)

Wonder if any school gigs will be forthcoming...

-- 

Dominic Cronin
Amsterdam

On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:23:50 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
 wrote:

>Actually it occurs to me that are *some* of these traditions you
>might want to keep out of schools, on the grounds that they'd scare
>the bejeezus out of small kids

You write that like it was a bad thing.

Dav Vandenbroucke
davanden at cox dot net

anahata wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 12:22:48 +0100, David Kilpatrick wrote:
>> Surely it's because it is Morris - Moorish dancing.
> 
> I thought that had been debunked along with the pagan fertility ritual 
> theory...


The early 17th c lute books and later tutors had 'Moorish Dance' tunes 
in them. But Will Kemp of course danced his Morris, Shakespeare despite 
bad spelling wouldn't have had Moorish dances.

Having seen traditional (Berber) Moroccan dancing and costume, the 
connection is somewhere around - whites, bells, ribbons. Not sure about 
big sticks, they probably come from another stream. Or not.

David

On Jul 2, 9:01 am, Dav Vandenbroucke
 wrote:
> It's not clear that anyone would actually _be_ offended.  They were
> just afraid someone might.
>
> It's a shame that a school didn't use the occasion to teach people
> about the background of the practice and that they shouldn't jump to
> conclusions about why the dancers dressed up that way.
>

Hell.
 Next thing you'll want schools to educate people about the customs
and traditions of the natives of Britain....
Not PC don't ya know...

george wrote:

> On Jul 2, 9:01 am, Dav Vandenbroucke
>  wrote:
>> It's not clear that anyone would actually _be_ offended.  They were
>> just afraid someone might.
>>
>> It's a shame that a school didn't use the occasion to teach people
>> about the background of the practice and that they shouldn't jump to
>> conclusions about why the dancers dressed up that way.
>>
> 
> Hell.
>  Next thing you'll want schools to educate people about the customs
> and traditions of the natives of Britain....
> Not PC don't ya know...

Actually it is.

Get down to your local primary or junior school and offer to perform some 
traditional English folk songs and they'll knock your hands off...

They'll probably even offer to pay for your CRB check.

They did for me (but I already had one)...

-- 
William Black

"a l l y"  wrote in message
news:7b3cmgF21qmahU4@mid.individual.net...
>
> "KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message
> news:4a4c5d8c.864765@news.enta.net...
>>
>> Hi
>>
>>
>> If face blacking is purely to avoid being recognised, then perhaps
>> the
>> Morris team should all wear burkahs instead - that will probably be
>> allowed!!!!                8^)
>>
> Wouldn't surprise me at all if it had already been done.
>
> ally
>
It has!! Take a look at the Flag and Bone Gang...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXAdYGgRMI

Tom

The message <78N4m.69930$Eq6.47701@newsfe24.ams2>
from "Tom M"  contains these words:


> "a l l y"  wrote in message
> news:7b3cmgF21qmahU4@mid.individual.net...
> >
> > "KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message
> > news:4a4c5d8c.864765@news.enta.net...
> >>
> >> Hi
> >>
> >>
> >> If face blacking is purely to avoid being recognised, then perhaps
> >> the
> >> Morris team should all wear burkahs instead - that will probably be
> >> allowed!!!!                8^)
> >>

Blacking up as an entertainment is a longstanding tradional pastime, and
these should be savoured for their historic nature.  We should celebrate
nigger minstrels on our beaches, the Black & White minstrel show should
be brought back as prime time TV - we could always run a reality
programme round it - Englands Next Best Wog would go down a treat,
especially in Barnsley. 

Of course, you wouldn't allow a real black to play Othello - it just
wouldn't be true to Shakespeare and that's important.

Perhaps it's just the internet part of the folk scene but this thread
reminds me of why half the acts currently performing in folk clubs turn
my stomach.  Language, both spoken and visual, shapes thought, which is
why it is important. Using the phrase political correctness as an insult
ignores what political correctness is actually all about, what the word
political means in the first place.

There is a poem by Roy Fuller s that ends "Anyone happy in this age and
place/ Is daft or corrupt.  Better to abdicate / From a material and
spiritual terrain / Fit only for barbarians."  

Anyway, it's nice to have my newsreader back...

-- 

                    Arthur Marshall           
              nb Lord Byron's Maggot

> Blacking up as an entertainment is a longstanding tradional pastime, and
> these should be savoured for their historic nature.  We should celebrate
> nigger minstrels on our beaches, the Black & White minstrel show should
> be brought back as prime time TV

Blacking up has nothing to do with minstrel shows.

Creating unreasoned hysteria about it is just playing into the hands
of the fascists.  Who agree with the presuppositions of what you just
said.  They WANT blacked-up dances to be a statement of white racial
supremacy, which they aren't - yet.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

At 23:51:36 on Tue, 7 Jul 2009, Jack Campin - bogus address 
 wrote in 
:

>Blacking up has nothing to do with minstrel shows.
>
>Creating unreasoned hysteria about it is just playing into the hands
>of the fascists.  Who agree with the presuppositions of what you just
>said.  They WANT blacked-up dances to be a statement of white racial
>supremacy, which they aren't - yet.

Jack, I kinda think that Arthur was being just a tad sarcastic.

But yes, blacking up is something which I have had to explain on many 
occasions to Americans, who choose to take personal offence at a dirty 
face.  We in this country have had many reasons, over the centuries, to 
apply to our faces:

mud
lamp-black
boot-polish
burnt cork
theatrical greasepaint

and no doubt many more.  But none of them, from the early days, had 
anything whatsoever to do with people of African origin.  In every case, 
the purpose was quite simple:  disguise.  You went out on a particular 
Saturday night, and involved yourself in the traditional revels of your 
local vicinity;  but on Sunday, the minister couldn't point the finger 
at you;  and on Monday, your employer couldn't point the finger at you; 
and on Tuesday, your mother-in-law couldn't [see page 82]

Here in Lewes, on Bonfire Night, we process in quite a variety of 
costumes.  One which is, however, common to every single Bonfire Society 
in the whole of Sussex (and Edenbridge) is the Smuggler - hooped 
Guernseys, in colours appropriate to your own society, and white 
trousers, and red stocking cap, and *blacked faces*.  (Or a proper 
mask.)

Many's the night I've arrived home after a solid six hours marching 
around town, with only a wee break for watching fireworks and tipping 
firewater down my throat, and gone straight to bed without washing my 
face;  you should have seen the pillowcase in the morn!  (But that has 
absolutely nothing on the filth that one can find, up to the first 
finger-joint, in one's nostrils the morning after Bonfire... there are 
others here who will confirm that...)
-- 
Molly Mockford
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety - Benjamin Franklin
(My Reply-To address *is* valid, though may not remain so for ever.)

On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:57:48 +0100, Molly Mockford
 wrote:

>At 23:51:36 on Tue, 7 Jul 2009, Jack Campin - bogus address 
> wrote in 
>:
>
>>Blacking up has nothing to do with minstrel shows.


Hi

I shudder to think what would happen if the Political Correctness
brigade realize that - for example - the "Padstow Obby Oss" is
predominantly black in colour and tried to ban it.

I suspect that civil war would break out in Cornwall!!!   8^(

Regards
KGB

"Tom M"  wrote in message 
news:78N4m.69930$Eq6.47701@newsfe24.ams2...
>
> "a l l y"  wrote in message
> news:7b3cmgF21qmahU4@mid.individual.net...
>>
>> "KGB (KGB)"  wrote in message
>> news:4a4c5d8c.864765@news.enta.net...
>>>
>>> Hi
>>>
>>>
>>> If face blacking is purely to avoid being recognised, then perhaps
>>> the
>>> Morris team should all wear burkahs instead - that will probably be
>>> allowed!!!!                8^)
>>>
>> Wouldn't surprise me at all if it had already been done.
>>
>> ally
>>
> It has!! Take a look at the Flag and Bone Gang...
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McXAdYGgRMI
>
Should have thought of that! I know them well. One of my favourite sides to 
watch, actually.

ally

KGB wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Jul 2009 00:57:48 +0100, Molly Mockford
>  wrote:
> 
>>At 23:51:36 on Tue, 7 Jul 2009, Jack Campin - bogus address
>> wrote in
>>:
>>
>>>Blacking up has nothing to do with minstrel shows.
> 
> 
> Hi
> 
> I shudder to think what would happen if the Political Correctness
> brigade realize that - for example - the "Padstow Obby Oss" is
> predominantly black in colour and tried to ban it.

Doubtful.

'Moley dancers' have had a couple of problems recently but they just play 
the 'Heritage card' and get off...

-- 
William Black

Jack Campin - bogus address said:
>
>  shaggy creatures with big teeth.

You called ?

I think I got mistaken for you last weekend, by the way. I was at
Newcastleton, & got talking with some bloke who was convinced we'd met
before, several years back - "How many white-bearded clarinettists can there
be, playing tunes around the borders ? You had one of those metal-bodied
clarinets". So you were my best guess. I can't remember his name, though ...


-- 
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

>>  shaggy creatures with big teeth.
> You called ?
> I think I got mistaken for you last weekend, by the way. I was at
> Newcastleton, & got talking with some bloke who was convinced we'd
> met before, several years back - "How many white-bearded clarinettists
> can there be, playing tunes around the borders ? You had one of those
> metal-bodied clarinets". So you were my best guess. I can't remember
> his name, though ...

I haven't had a beard for 5 years so he must be well out of touch.

I'm pretty sure nobody else in Scotland is using a Turkish clarinet
for folk music.  I haven't even seen a jazzer using one.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Jack Campin - bogus address said:
>>>  shaggy creatures with big teeth.
>> You called ?
>> I think I got mistaken for you last weekend, by the way. I was at
>> Newcastleton, & got talking with some bloke who was convinced we'd
>> met before, several years back - "How many white-bearded clarinettists
>> can there be, playing tunes around the borders ? You had one of those
>> metal-bodied clarinets". So you were my best guess. I can't remember
>> his name, though ...
>
> I haven't had a beard for 5 years so he must be well out of touch.

I think he said it had been several years ago. Wasn't particularly
consequential ...

> I'm pretty sure nobody else in Scotland is using a Turkish clarinet
> for folk music.  I haven't even seen a jazzer using one.

I saw a busker with one, I think in the late '70s, possibly Leeds. Apart
from that, you're the only person I've met using one in any context on this
island. If you are, still.


-- 
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://www.qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

>> I'm pretty sure nobody else in Scotland is using a Turkish clarinet
>> for folk music.  I haven't even seen a jazzer using one.
> I saw a busker with one, I think in the late '70s, possibly Leeds.
> Apart from that, you're the only person I've met using one in any
> context on this island. If you are, still.

I use it in nearly every session I go to.  (What I often do with it at
Sandy Bell's is use it in the same way as a freebass accordion left
hand, doing fairly complicated semi-improvised backings behind the
Continental-style tunes George comes up with on the moothie).  Might
think about getting a wooden G clarinet in Istanbul some time - they're
edging the metal ones out these days and do sound better in some ways
(look up Husnu Seslendirici on YouTube for an example).

I can't imagine why something with a greater range than a five-string
fiddle, at a tenth of the price, and compact enough to fit in a whisky
presentation tin, hasn't caught on.

Metal B flat clarinets were once used by the Army (lighter and less
climate-sensitive than wood) and they got into wider circulation.  At
a glance it would be hard to tell them from the Turkish G clarinets.
There's a famous picture from the Forties by George Rodger of a London
one-man-band busker playing one of these metal B flat instruments.
They turn up on EBay quite often, and can fetch silly prices.  Some
of them have one-piece bodies, which strikes me as a bizarre idea for
something that's supposed to be portable.

==== j a c k  at  c a m p i n . m e . u k  ===  <http://www.campin.me.uk> ====
Jack Campin, 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland == mob 07800 739 557
CD-ROMs and free stuff:  Scottish music, food intolerance, and Mac logic fonts
****** I killfile Google posts - email me if you want to be whitelisted ******

Dominic Cronin wrote:
> On Wed, 01 Jul 2009 23:23:50 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
>  wrote:
> 
>>> Better to say they're part of a global cultural phenomenon [...]
>>> which includes people of every imaginable colour made up to be every
>>> imaginable colour (including black people blacking up).  Blacked-up
>>> border morris sides would fit in just fine in a Brazilian festival.
>> Actually it occurs to me that are *some* of these traditions you
>> might want to keep out of schools, on the grounds that they'd scare
>> the bejeezus out of small kids:
>>
>> http://s3.images.com/huge.73.368867.JPG
>>
>> but not, I think, for offending the sensibilities of ghouls.
>>
> 
> I'm reminded of a certain team of rapper dancers who somewhat
> infamously performed (in private, thankfully - if a hall full of
> morris dancers counts as that) dressed in the most traditional English
> dress they could think of: woad.
> 
> Only woad, that is. (actually I doubt the authenticity, based only on
> the lack of supply of woad in Hammersmith, but I can't prove anything)
> 
> Wonder if any school gigs will be forthcoming...
> 

It was North British Rapper, if woad doesn't grow in North Britain then 
I don't know where it does ;-)

Ian

P.S. I'm sure that was the same event where Gordon Potts ended up 
playing guitar wearing just a beret and a leather waistcoat, and found 
out why you really shouldn't use the whammy bar on a Strat in these 
circumstances -- no cover over the back of the springs...

"Jack Campin - bogus address"  wrote in message 
news:bogus-A37C30.10335513072009@news.albasani.net...
>
> Metal B flat clarinets were once used by the Army (lighter and less
> climate-sensitive than wood) and they got into wider circulation.  At
> a glance it would be hard to tell them from the Turkish G clarinets.
> There's a famous picture from the Forties by George Rodger of a London
> one-man-band busker playing one of these metal B flat instruments.
> They turn up on EBay quite often, and can fetch silly prices.  Some
> of them have one-piece bodies, which strikes me as a bizarre idea for
> something that's supposed to be portable.
>
I had one of those for a while, but seldom used it, and ended up selling it 
to one of our customers (and not at a silly price!). We've had one or two 
through the workshop for repairs. I don't really care for them - I'd rather 
have a soprano sax, given the choice.

ally
www.marshallmcgurk.com

On Jun 30, 7:53 pm, Alan Lowey  wrote:
>  From The Mirror newspaper so it may not be entirely true...
>
> Moris men school ban.
>
> Morris dancers have been dropped from a school's diversity day because
> they black their faces with burnt cork.
>
> The Motley Morris Men continue the tradition used to hide dancers'
> identities since the 17th century.
>
> But they were axed by Chantry Primary School in Grevesend, Kent.
>
> Head Hazel King said: "We found ourselves in a difficult position of
> weighing up any potential offence."
>
> Dancer Pete Hargreaves: "They say people might be offended, without
> investigating why we do it."

Well, well, well. Looks like you Brits are finding out the hard way
that the Colored People business is not so easy!

On Jun 30, 7:53 pm, Alan Lowey  wrote:
> From The Mirror newspaper so it may not be entirely true...
>
> Moris men school ban.
>
> Morris dancers have been dropped from a school's diversity day because
> they black their faces with burnt cork.
>
> The Motley Morris Men continue the tradition used to hide dancers'
> identities since the 17th century.
>
> But they were axed by Chantry Primary School in Grevesend, Kent.
>
> Head Hazel King said: "We found ourselves in a difficult position of
> weighing up any potential offence."

Well, they is gonna lurv me.

My next song is my one about John Clare

or my 'world music' one from an African farmer's perspective, which I'll 
have to do in the appropriate voice

Can a White man sing the blacks?

--
song in memory of my father http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
and other greatest hits

On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:45:05 +0100, "Gill Smith"
 wrote:

>> Head Hazel King said: "We found ourselves in a difficult position of
>> weighing up any potential offence."
>
>Well, they is gonna lurv me.
>
>My next song is my one about John Clare
>
>or my 'world music' one from an African farmer's perspective, which I'll 
>have to do in the appropriate voice
>
>Can a White man sing the blacks?

Dunno, but we have to apologise in advance before every performance of
Huddy Ledbetter's Bourgeois Blues due to  the 'N' word.