"Sky dish of the day"  wrote in message 
news:a9facac4-2d22-410a-917e-5244ed6dce5c@w74g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>I already have SKY FTA card in my SKY box.
>
> Can I receive the new May '08 BBC/ITV Freesat on this box, with or
> without a Freesat card ?
>
> Or do I also have to buy a Freesat box ?
>
>


nothing changes - the 'freesat' boxes will be receiving exactly the same 
broadcasts - not an extra, different one.



-- 
Gareth.

That fly, is your magic wand.....

On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:59:40 +0100, "The dog from that film you saw"
 wrote:

>nothing changes - the 'freesat' boxes will be receiving exactly the same 
>broadcasts - not an extra, different one.

However, the 'BBC/ITV Freesat' box will only list channels that have
paid to be featured, so the tens/hundreds of other FTA channels
available on Sky will not be viewable at all.

Of course for some channels, this might be a good thing.
--

"Zero Tolerance"  wrote in message 
news:481604b8.28481453@enews.newsguy.com...
> On Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:59:40 +0100, "The dog from that film you saw"
>  wrote:
>
>>nothing changes - the 'freesat' boxes will be receiving exactly the same
>>broadcasts - not an extra, different one.
>
> However, the 'BBC/ITV Freesat' box will only list channels that have
> paid to be featured, so the tens/hundreds of other FTA channels
> available on Sky will not be viewable at all.
>
> Of course for some channels, this might be a good thing.
> --

How many of the those FTA channels pay to be on SKY's EPG? I do  hope the 
BBC have specified a Manual mode for non-epg channels like SKY have.

On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:38:44 +0100, "John Russell"
 wrote:

>How many of the those FTA channels pay to be on SKY's EPG? 

Almost all of them. 

>I do  hope the 
>BBC have specified a Manual mode for non-epg channels like SKY have. 

No. It is not possible to tune in any FTA channels that have not paid
the BBC to be listed on the Freesat EPG.

--

Zero Tolerance  wrote:
: >How many of the those FTA channels pay to be on SKY's EPG? 

: Almost all of them. 

Actually more than have paid to be on Freesat so far! AFAIK *all* FTA 
channels on Freesat are on Sky - but the reverse is not true!

: No. It is not possible to tune in any FTA channels that have not paid
: the BBC to be listed on the Freesat EPG.

This may change. People in several forums are still convinced that EU 
rules means that STBs cannot block FTA channels - but no-one can quite 
find the reference!

"Brian McIlwrath"  wrote in message 
news:fv74q8$ej6$2@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> Zero Tolerance  wrote:
> : >How many of the those FTA channels pay to be on SKY's EPG?
>
> : Almost all of them.
>
> Actually more than have paid to be on Freesat so far! AFAIK *all* FTA
> channels on Freesat are on Sky - but the reverse is not true!
>
> : No. It is not possible to tune in any FTA channels that have not paid
> : the BBC to be listed on the Freesat EPG.
>
> This may change. People in several forums are still convinced that EU
> rules means that STBs cannot block FTA channels - but no-one can quite
> find the reference!

The only reference I can find is to legislation requiring competition in 
Digital TV supply. It should be noted that the costs of running so called 
FTA channels have to found from somewhere, they are not free to run! In the 
case of the BBC it's by Licence, in the case of others it might be 
advertising. The BBC would be allowed to  say that running Freesat has costs 
which other FTA channels must pay for to be accessed by it. As long as users 
have a choice the EU doesn't care. If the UK government was only legislating 
to only allow Freesat to operate then  they would be in breach of EU 
competition law.

>
> The only reference I can find is to legislation requiring competition in 
> Digital TV supply. It should be noted that the costs of running so called 
> FTA channels have to found from somewhere, they are not free to run! In 
> the case of the BBC it's by Licence, in the case of others it might be 
> advertising. The BBC would be allowed to  say that running Freesat has 
> costs which other FTA channels must pay for to be accessed by it. As long 
> as users have a choice the EU doesn't care. If the UK government was only 
> legislating to only allow Freesat to operate then  they would be in breach 
> of EU competition law.
>

The issue here is also  that the UK government allowed SKY to introduce a 
"financial model" where the channels paid to be in the EPG. It would be 
anti-competitive to  ask that Freesat covered their EPG costs when SKY 
doesn't.  It's the FTA channels who will be behaving anti-competitively and 
restricting choice if they are willing to pay SKY to be in their EPG, but 
not Freesat.

John Russell  wrote:
: >
: > The only reference I can find is to legislation requiring competition in 
: > Digital TV supply. It should be noted that the costs of running so called 
: > FTA channels have to found from somewhere, they are not free to run! In 
: > the case of the BBC it's by Licence, in the case of others it might be 
: > advertising. The BBC would be allowed to  say that running Freesat has 
: > costs which other FTA channels must pay for to be accessed by it. As long 
: > as users have a choice the EU doesn't care. If the UK government was only 
: > legislating to only allow Freesat to operate then  they would be in breach 
: > of EU competition law.
: >

: The issue here is also  that the UK government allowed SKY to introduce a 
: "financial model" where the channels paid to be in the EPG.

Paying to be in an EPG is pretty universal! Freesat are not free either.

: doesn't.  It's the FTA channels who will be behaving anti-competitively and 
: restricting choice if they are willing to pay SKY to be in their EPG, but 
: not Freesat. 

That's not the issue in question! The question is should (or must!)
receivers allow manual tuning of FTA channels which are *NOT* paying to be in
the EPG - and dump these in some obscure list (as Sky do!). The (very few) 
Freesat receivers which have escaped the intense pre-launch secrecy do 
not - but they might acquire this in a software update.

"Brian McIlwrath"  wrote in message 
news:fv77tu$fju$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
> John Russell  wrote:
> : >
> : > The only reference I can find is to legislation requiring competition 
> in
> : > Digital TV supply. It should be noted that the costs of running so 
> called
> : > FTA channels have to found from somewhere, they are not free to run! 
> In
> : > the case of the BBC it's by Licence, in the case of others it might be
> : > advertising. The BBC would be allowed to  say that running Freesat has
> : > costs which other FTA channels must pay for to be accessed by it. As 
> long
> : > as users have a choice the EU doesn't care. If the UK government was 
> only
> : > legislating to only allow Freesat to operate then  they would be in 
> breach
> : > of EU competition law.
> : >
>
> : The issue here is also  that the UK government allowed SKY to introduce 
> a
> : "financial model" where the channels paid to be in the EPG.
>
> Paying to be in an EPG is pretty universal! Freesat are not free either.
>
> : doesn't.  It's the FTA channels who will be behaving anti-competitively 
> and
> : restricting choice if they are willing to pay SKY to be in their EPG, 
> but
> : not Freesat.
>
> That's not the issue in question! The question is should (or must!)
> receivers allow manual tuning of FTA channels which are *NOT* paying to be 
> in
> the EPG - and dump these in some obscure list (as Sky do!). The (very few)
> Freesat receivers which have escaped the intense pre-launch secrecy do
> not - but they might acquire this in a software update.

It is just as much an issue. If the EPG was considered like a listing mag 
then it would be SKY and Freesat's job to pay  the channels for them to 
appear in the EPG. The problem over FTA would then disappear as both would 
be obliged to offer access to all FTA channels by paying the channels to 
have them in the EPG.

"John Russell"  wrote in message 
news:481725d1$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Brian McIlwrath"  wrote in message 
> news:fv77tu$fju$1@south.jnrs.ja.net...
>> John Russell  wrote:
>> : >
>> : > The only reference I can find is to legislation requiring competition 
>> in
>> : > Digital TV supply. It should be noted that the costs of running so 
>> called
>> : > FTA channels have to found from somewhere, they are not free to run! 
>> In
>> : > the case of the BBC it's by Licence, in the case of others it might 
>> be
>> : > advertising. The BBC would be allowed to  say that running Freesat 
>> has
>> : > costs which other FTA channels must pay for to be accessed by it. As 
>> long
>> : > as users have a choice the EU doesn't care. If the UK government was 
>> only
>> : > legislating to only allow Freesat to operate then  they would be in 
>> breach
>> : > of EU competition law.
>> : >
>>
>> : The issue here is also  that the UK government allowed SKY to introduce 
>> a
>> : "financial model" where the channels paid to be in the EPG.
>>
>> Paying to be in an EPG is pretty universal! Freesat are not free either.
>>
>> : doesn't.  It's the FTA channels who will be behaving anti-competitively 
>> and
>> : restricting choice if they are willing to pay SKY to be in their EPG, 
>> but
>> : not Freesat.
>>
>> That's not the issue in question! The question is should (or must!)
>> receivers allow manual tuning of FTA channels which are *NOT* paying to 
>> be in
>> the EPG - and dump these in some obscure list (as Sky do!). The (very 
>> few)
>> Freesat receivers which have escaped the intense pre-launch secrecy do
>> not - but they might acquire this in a software update.
>
> It is just as much an issue. If the EPG was considered like a listing mag 
> then it would be SKY and Freesat's job to pay  the channels for them to 
> appear in the EPG. The problem over FTA would then disappear as both would 
> be obliged to offer access to all FTA channels by paying the channels to 
> have them in the EPG.
>

P.S. It' only the OFT in the UK which  believe in the ludicrous idea that a 
"box" is a "platform", as argued by Virgin against SKY. It makes more sense 
to  call Sat, Cable or DVB-T a platform. As long as you can buy a box on 
each platform for FTA channels then the EU may well be satisifed that 
competition and access to FTA is being satsified.