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date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100,    group: uk.media.tv.sky        back       
Sky Boradband Router issues   
I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
battery saver.

I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
the router not processing throughput fast enough.

So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
performing as expected?

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
> saver.
>
> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>
> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
> as expected?
>
> -- 
>

Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
MTU  for the USB wifi.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:52:09 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
John Russell wrote:
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
>> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
>> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
>> saver.
>>
>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>
>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
>> as expected?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> 
> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
> a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
> MTU  for the USB wifi. 
> 
> 
Thanks I'll give that a shot.

Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached 
to my Virgin wifi router.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:30:43 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 

Look here:
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:49:01 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
JohnT wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
> <f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:
> 
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 
> 
> Look here:
> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> 
> john

My router is already configured in that way - almost. I had it set to 
'b&g' mode so I changed it to Auto 108 just to see what would happen, 
but it made no difference.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f77mq0$msk$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> > Look here:
> > http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> > 
> > john
> 
> My router is already configured in that way ...

Don't restict yourself to that single page I listed; look around the
SkyUser site as there is lots of good info there, and if you still cannot
find what you what then ask there - they have a welath of info, knowledge,
and friendliness.

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:06:33 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
> John Russell wrote:
>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>> battery saver.
>>>
>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>
>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>> performing as expected?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>
>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>
> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I can 
> see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is happening 
> on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to my Virgin 
> wifi router.
>
> -- 
>

Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down grade 
down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:02:15 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"John Russell"  wrote in message 
news:4697da3b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
>> John Russell wrote:
>>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>>> battery saver.
>>>>
>>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due 
>>>> to the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>>
>>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>>> performing as expected?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
>> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>>
>> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
>> can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
>> happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to 
>> my Virgin wifi router.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>
> Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
> device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down 
> grade down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
> overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
> better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
> quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
>
>
P.S. If the wifi isn't connecting at the full 54g try another channel. My 
125G connection is only reliable using channels 7 and  8, many of the others 
can't even handle 54g!
date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:29:52 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
> saver.
>
> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>
> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
> as expected?
>
> -- 
>

Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
MTU  for the USB wifi.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:52:09 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
John Russell wrote:
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
>> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
>> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
>> saver.
>>
>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>
>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
>> as expected?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> 
> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
> a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
> MTU  for the USB wifi. 
> 
> 
Thanks I'll give that a shot.

Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached 
to my Virgin wifi router.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:30:43 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 

Look here:
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:49:01 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
JohnT wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
> <f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:
> 
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 
> 
> Look here:
> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> 
> john

My router is already configured in that way - almost. I had it set to 
'b&g' mode so I changed it to Auto 108 just to see what would happen, 
but it made no difference.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f77mq0$msk$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> > Look here:
> > http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> > 
> > john
> 
> My router is already configured in that way ...

Don't restict yourself to that single page I listed; look around the
SkyUser site as there is lots of good info there, and if you still cannot
find what you what then ask there - they have a welath of info, knowledge,
and friendliness.

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:06:33 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
> John Russell wrote:
>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>> battery saver.
>>>
>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>
>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>> performing as expected?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>
>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>
> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I can 
> see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is happening 
> on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to my Virgin 
> wifi router.
>
> -- 
>

Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down grade 
down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:02:15 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"John Russell"  wrote in message 
news:4697da3b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
>> John Russell wrote:
>>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>>> battery saver.
>>>>
>>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due 
>>>> to the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>>
>>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>>> performing as expected?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
>> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>>
>> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
>> can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
>> happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to 
>> my Virgin wifi router.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>
> Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
> device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down 
> grade down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
> overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
> better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
> quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
>
>
P.S. If the wifi isn't connecting at the full 54g try another channel. My 
125G connection is only reliable using channels 7 and  8, many of the others 
can't even handle 54g!
date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:29:52 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
> saver.
>
> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>
> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
> as expected?
>
> -- 
>

Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
MTU  for the USB wifi.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:52:09 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
John Russell wrote:
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link to 
>> it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The router 
>> and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not battery 
>> saver.
>>
>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>
>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers performing 
>> as expected?
>>
>> -- 
>>
> 
> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for say 
> a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to  modify the 
> MTU  for the USB wifi. 
> 
> 
Thanks I'll give that a shot.

Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached 
to my Virgin wifi router.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:30:43 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 

Look here:
http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:49:01 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
JohnT wrote:
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 08:29:40 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
> <f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:
> 
>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. 
> 
> Look here:
> http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> 
> john

My router is already configured in that way - almost. I had it set to 
'b&g' mode so I changed it to Auto 108 just to see what would happen, 
but it made no difference.

-- 
Abo
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100   author:   Abo ks

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:14:16 +0100, Abo <no@spam.thanks> in message
<f77mq0$msk$1@news.albasani.net>, wrote:

> > Look here:
> > http://www.skyuser.co.uk/forum/sky-broadband-tutorial-section/6703-how-configure-your-routers-wireless-settings.html
> > 
> > john
> 
> My router is already configured in that way ...

Don't restict yourself to that single page I listed; look around the
SkyUser site as there is lots of good info there, and if you still cannot
find what you what then ask there - they have a welath of info, knowledge,
and friendliness.

john
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 17:06:33 +0100   author:   JohnT

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
> John Russell wrote:
>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>> battery saver.
>>>
>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due to 
>>> the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>
>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>> performing as expected?
>>>
>>> -- 
>>>
>>
>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>
> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I can 
> see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is happening 
> on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to my Virgin 
> wifi router.
>
> -- 
>

Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down grade 
down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 21:02:15 +0100   author:   John Russell

Re: Sky Boradband Router issues   
"John Russell"  wrote in message 
news:4697da3b$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com...
>
> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
> news:f77k8c$gio$1@news.albasani.net...
>> John Russell wrote:
>>> "Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
>>> news:f779kt$o4u$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>> I've recently got Sky broadband Max, and get 10-12Mbps on a wired link 
>>>> to it which is nice. But if I go wifi I get a maximum of 3.5Mbps. The 
>>>> router and laptop are set to 802.11g mode, and full performance, not 
>>>> battery saver.
>>>>
>>>> I've asked on a router group and someone told me that it could be due 
>>>> to the router not processing throughput fast enough.
>>>>
>>>> So, is anyone else having the same problem, or are your routers 
>>>> performing as expected?
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your PC uses different setups for each interface. It sounds like the MTU 
>>> used with the Lan interface direct to the router  is OK, but the MTU for 
>>> say a USB Wifi dongle is not. You need to try tools such as drTCP to 
>>> modify the MTU  for the USB wifi.
>> Thanks I'll give that a shot.
>>
>> Incidentally, it's not a USB dongle, it's the internal wifi card but I 
>> can see that the same reasoning will hold true. However, the same is 
>> happening on both my laptops, and both laptops work fine when attached to 
>> my Virgin wifi router.
>>
>> -- 
>>
>
> Check what speed tour wifi is using according to the info tab of your wifi 
> device. The 58 speed is a maximum for that device, it can easily down 
> grade down to 11. Even then wifi has a severe overhead, about 50% goes on 
> overhead. So if you have a downgraded link working at 11, it can't perform 
> better than 5.5, and once you include internet overheads a 5.5 link might 
> quite easily perform no better than 3.5.
>
>
P.S. If the wifi isn't connecting at the full 54g try another channel. My 
125G connection is only reliable using channels 7 and  8, many of the others 
can't even handle 54g!
date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:29:52 +0100   author:   John Russell

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