Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)

Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !

Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.

-- 
Edward Cowling   "Must Go - The Gimp Just Escaped !!"

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
> 
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
> 
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
> 

Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...

Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
doctor and computer geek.

-- 
Abo

In article <g4ohbe$ubu$4@news.albasani.net>,
 Abo <no@spam.thanks> writes:
>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the
>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as
>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new
>doctor and computer geek.

You'd think that a sensible girl like Martha would think twice about
leaving an organisation like UNIT, which for all its faults seems
basically competent, for one like Torchwood, which for all its virtues
seems basically incompetent. :)

As we have a thread running at the moment entitled "Missing footage
found - really", it would have been nice had tonight's Doctor Who
episode been called "Missing handage found - really". :)
-- 
John Hall      "George the Third
                Ought never to have occurred.
                One can only wonder
                At so grotesque a blunder."     E.C.Bentley (1875-1956)

Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>> 
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>> 
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>> 
>
>Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>
>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>doctor and computer geek.

Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
particular, daleks speaking German.

But, let me get this straight....
Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?

Well, he is mad.

On the other hand, only 172 days until the cybermen invade.

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>> 
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>> 
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>> 
>
>Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...

And yet, it was able to pull a spaceship out of the gravity well of a
black hole in season two.

>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>doctor and computer geek.

What was it McCoy said in Remembrance about the human capacity to
ignore inconvenient facts?

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

Abo wrote:
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>
> 
> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
> 
> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
> doctor and computer geek.
> 

Yeah I thought the planet towing was a bit daft, especially how the moon 
just somehow popped back into orbit.  Would have been better to have the 
TARDIS somehow wrap it's dematerialisation field around the Earth and 
rematerialise it back in position but back in time to the exact moment 
that it went missing, so no orbital disruption but still no "reset" 
either, since time has still passed on the Earth itself.

Otherwise I thought the episode was great, some very clever bits, 
especially resolving the Rose thing by giving her the Doctor she could 
never have otherwise had.

Féachadóir wrote:
> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>
>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>
>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>
>> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>
>> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>> doctor and computer geek.
> 
> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
> particular, daleks speaking German.
> 

Yeah, loved the "Exterminieren! Exterminieren!"

Also like the fact that people have been speculating all kinds of 
anagrams for "Osterhagen Key" and it turns out to be a literal reference 
to Osterhagen, which was the place where the Nazis developed the V 
weapons in WWII, at the time considered to be the ultimate weapons that 
would end the war.

> But, let me get this straight....
> Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
> evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
> rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
> which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
> process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?
> 

Maybe he only came to that realisation after watching Davros rebuild the 
empire?

> Well, he is mad.
> 

Or yes, that could be it.

> On the other hand, only 172 days until the cybermen invade.
> 

Cybermen invading Victorian England at Christmas by the looks of it too....

Scríobh Gareth :
>Féachadóir wrote:
>> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>>
>>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>>
>>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>>
>>> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>>
>>> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>>> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>>> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>>> doctor and computer geek.
>> 
>> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
>> particular, daleks speaking German.
>> 
>
>Yeah, loved the "Exterminieren! Exterminieren!"
>
>Also like the fact that people have been speculating all kinds of 
>anagrams for "Osterhagen Key" and it turns out to be a literal reference 
>to Osterhagen, which was the place where the Nazis developed the V 
>weapons in WWII, at the time considered to be the ultimate weapons that 
>would end the war.

True. Though it must be said that Osterhagen = Earth's Gone works for
a doomsday device.

>> But, let me get this straight....
>> Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
>> evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
>> rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
>> which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
>> process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?
>> 
>
>Maybe he only came to that realisation after watching Davros rebuild the 
>empire?

It occurred to me after I posted that perhaps that wasn't his real
goal at all. He showed the Doctor his soul.

Oh, and Rose get's her own doctor. All together, awwww...

>> Well, he is mad.
>> 
>
>Or yes, that could be it.

Didn't hurt.

>> On the other hand, only 172 days until the cybermen invade.
>> 
>
>Cybermen invading Victorian England at Christmas by the looks of it too....

And another 'other Doctor' teaser. Assuming he is a doctor, and is not
the Doctor or a random medic, what historical figures does that give
us? Thomas Barnardo? Joseph Lister? 

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

In article ,
Edward Cowling London UK   wrote:
>Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>
>Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>
>Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>

Then how would you explain away McCoy to McGann.

Mind you if if was McGann pre-Time war well ...
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every multiverse 
> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem a 
> bit of an anti climax :-)
>
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone sensible 
> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.

It was like all fanwank. Starts off good but with no thought to plot or 
conclusion.

"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>


The CGI is starting to look very lame, a very bad kill off of the Daleks.

"The Doctor"  wrote in message 
news:g4opa4$d69$1@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> Then how would you explain away McCoy to McGann.


Well in Russell's writing all Doctors could exist, to be honest, it would be 
a sigh of relief if it was William Hartnell.

In article <r8Sbk.5015$7v1.1520@newsfe30.ams2>, Pig  wrote:
>"The Doctor"  wrote in message 
>news:g4opa4$d69$1@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> Then how would you explain away McCoy to McGann.
>
>
>Well in Russell's writing all Doctors could exist, to be honest, it would be 
>a sigh of relief if it was William Hartnell. 
>

Very good point!
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

Pig wrote:
> "Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in 
> message news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>
> 
> 
> The CGI is starting to look very lame, a very bad kill off of the Daleks.
> 
> 
I think they may have spent most of their budget in the beginning of the 
show.

In article , Hakk   wrote:
>Pig wrote:
>> "Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in 
>> message news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>
>> 
>> 
>> The CGI is starting to look very lame, a very bad kill off of the Daleks.
>> 
>> 
>I think they may have spent most of their budget in the beginning of the 
>show.

Low budget?
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.

Epic, and mildy entertaining to see all of the gang in the Tardis. But a
bit of a let-down to be honest. The Stolen Earth was a good first part,
Journey's End was a poor second part. (Not for the first time.) I didn't
mind the Donna memory wipe thing, but the Daleks who had looked so
powerful in the first part of the story, but were all just destroyed so
easily with the flick of a few switches. Yeah, I'm sure kids loved it,
and it'll get good ratings because of the 'regeneration' cliff-hanger
last week, but for me, not really a great Finale.

I hope that's the last we see of Rose now that she has her man though!

"Stephen O'Connell"  wrote in message 
news:wLVbk.26215$j7.470456@news.indigo.ie...
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>
> Epic, and mildy entertaining to see all of the gang in the Tardis. But a
> bit of a let-down to be honest. The Stolen Earth was a good first part,
> Journey's End was a poor second part. (Not for the first time.) I didn't
> mind the Donna memory wipe thing, but the Daleks who had looked so
> powerful in the first part of the story, but were all just destroyed so
> easily with the flick of a few switches. Yeah, I'm sure kids loved it,
> and it'll get good ratings because of the 'regeneration' cliff-hanger
> last week, but for me, not really a great Finale.

Wow I didn't like the DoctorDonna thing and having a 2nd "half human" 
doctor...thats what ruined it for me...the rest of the story I loved, I 
still can't believe they copped out on killing a companion AGAIN!!!  First 
Rose was to die which turned out to be her living on a parrallel world then 
Caan said someone would die and...well...no one died...I'm guessing the 
"that Donna is dead" line was meant to complete the prophecy but it's still 
a cop out....

Micky and Martha to Torchwood??  Not sure about that one either....I like 
Torchwood and never liked either of them that much in Doctor Who but 
hopefully Mickey will go a bit more "kidulthood" a bit less "weepy over 
rose" then he might fit in...
>
> I hope that's the last we see of Rose now that she has her man though!

See I thought Billie had signed on for the 2009 TV movie thingy they're 
doing....unless that was some misinformation.

On 2008-07-05, Gareth  wrote:
>
> Yeah, loved the "Exterminieren! Exterminieren!"

Very much. Maybe the Daleks had the same kind of language technology the
TARDIS has, especially if as said in the plot they'd been studying
TARDISs

> Maybe he only came to that realisation after watching Davros rebuild the 
> empire?

Or for some reason he felt it had to be done in terms of a prophesy.

>> On the other hand, only 172 days until the cybermen invade.
>
> Cybermen invading Victorian England at Christmas by the looks of it too....

It would be like bows and arrows against the lightning - to think of
another well known science fiction classic :-)

 - Richard

On 2008-07-05, Gareth  wrote:
>
> Otherwise I thought the episode was great, some very clever bits, 
> especially resolving the Rose thing by giving her the Doctor she could 
> never have otherwise had.

You could ask, and maybe so could she, how much did she want the
Doctor and how much did she want the car? How much of what the Doctor is
to her is in the TARDIS and his life which the new Doctor can't have.

Still, he'd do well working for UNIT/Torchwood on her world so there
still can be that life.

 - Richard

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
> 
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
> 
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
> 

Blimey, I've never seen such utter rubbish. It was bad sci-fi, bad 
fantasy, and generally just bad fiction verging on the infantile. Yet 
more of the excessive melodrama and tear-jerking family partings and 
reunions with everyone's mother and dog being dragged out of the 
undergrowth for yet more inflationary gatherings of companions - it's 
going to get a bit more crowded in the next serious if we have this 
continuing reappearance of hangers-on. Yet more inflationary badness: 
not only were the daleks intent on destroying humanity as previously, 
but this time most of the entire universe as well! The ending was an 
even bigger mega-explosion with an even more ludicrous and spurious 
"reset button" in the form of the Donna/Doctor making all the daleks 
spontaneously explode - accompanied by some utter drivel pretend science 
- in the biggest cop-out yet of the new series.

I just can't believe anybody could think that episode was any good at 
all. Of all the key cast, the only decent parts in these two episodes 
were firstly the American UNIT general who got exterminated making a 
stand to allow Martha to run off with the Osterhagen key, and secondly 
Captain Jack. These two characters are the only ones who made any sense 
within the reasonable bounds of what would be expected and possible from 
their characters with descending into the absurd and ridiculous. Given 
that the general was pretty much a bit part and that Jack's character 
isn't really required to have any sensible bounds owing to his 
outlandishness and immortality, that's a sad indictment of the plot and 
characterisation as a whole.

As for the Osterhagen key idea itself, that's just plain thick. No human 
worth his salt would opt for total and complete mass suicide when faced 
the possible total destruction of the human race from an external 
threat. Obviously not. What bollocks.

Michael

"Michael Kilpatrick"  wrote in message 
news:9-ednVNQEbKICe3VnZ2dnUVZ8uCdnZ2d@pipex.net...
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone sensible 
>> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>
>
> Blimey, I've never seen such utter rubbish. It was bad sci-fi, bad 
> fantasy, and generally just bad fiction verging on the infantile. Yet more 
> of the excessive melodrama and tear-jerking family partings and reunions 
> with everyone's mother and dog being dragged out of the undergrowth for 
> yet more inflationary gatherings of companions - it's going to get a bit 
> more crowded in the next serious if we have this continuing reappearance 
> of hangers-on. Yet more inflationary badness: not only were the daleks 
> intent on destroying humanity as previously, but this time most of the 
> entire universe as well! The ending was an even bigger mega-explosion with 
> an even more ludicrous and spurious "reset button" in the form of the 
> Donna/Doctor making all the daleks spontaneously explode - accompanied by 
> some utter drivel pretend science - in the biggest cop-out yet of the new 
> series.
>
> I just can't believe anybody could think that episode was any good at all. 
> Of all the key cast, the only decent parts in these two episodes were 
> firstly the American UNIT general who got exterminated making a stand to 
> allow Martha to run off with the Osterhagen key, and secondly Captain 
> Jack. These two characters are the only ones who made any sense within the 
> reasonable bounds of what would be expected and possible from their 
> characters with descending into the absurd and ridiculous. Given that the 
> general was pretty much a bit part and that Jack's character isn't really 
> required to have any sensible bounds owing to his outlandishness and 
> immortality, that's a sad indictment of the plot and characterisation as a 
> whole.
>
> As for the Osterhagen key idea itself, that's just plain thick. No human 
> worth his salt would opt for total and complete mass suicide when faced 
> the possible total destruction of the human race from an external threat. 
> Obviously not. What bollocks.
>
> Michael

Take it you didn't like it then?!!   :-))

Tim

Both!

Diane L.

Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>> 
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>> 
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>> 
> 
> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...

As opposed to towing a starship away from a black hole a couple of years
ago :)

> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
> doctor and computer geek.

Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in Doctor
Who.

John Hall  wrote:
> 
> You'd think that a sensible girl like Martha would think twice about
> leaving an organisation like UNIT, which for all its faults seems
> basically competent, for one like Torchwood, which for all its virtues

Except for a doomsday weapon and a dodgy teleporter.

> seems basically incompetent. :)

On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:40:52 +0100, Manky Badger <you.must@be.joking> wrote:
>
> "Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
> news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every multiverse 
>> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem a 
>> bit of an anti climax :-)
>>
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone sensible 
>> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>
>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>
> It was like all fanwank. Starts off good but with no thought to plot or 
> conclusion. 

Absolutely.  As a spare hand can obviously help in a potential
regeneration crisis (and it didn't actually hurt or hinder the Doctor
when it was cut off) why don't Time Lords just lop off a hand (or some
other body part) immediately on regenerating so that they can keep it 
around in case of emergency?  Maybe toe-nail clippings might work in
pinch when you have mislaid your spare hand.

As usual, there was lots of surface gloss but no depth to the story.  So
many scenes just seemed to be of the "that's kewl" variety rather than
adding to the story.  The german speaking Daleks for example added not
one iota to the story.  The entire Shadow Proclamation stuff - why?  The
Uncle Tom Cobley and all approach to the companions - why?  Most of them
were sidelined for way more than half the story.  Very few of them had
anything meaningful to do - they just got one very short scene to do
anything.  Rose was seemingly brought back just to give her a shadow of 
the real Doctor.  Characterisation seemed weak - Sarah Jane not getting
involved with "men with guns" but walking around with bloody big alien
bomb.

Some of my issues are with RTD's vision of DW.  Generally he sees humanity 
(well UNIT and Torchwood) as far more competent and able than I do.
Admittedly DW has always had mad geniuses who were able to be hundreds
of years ahead of humanity in technology.  However they were mad
geniuses (and usually evil).  In the recent stories we have had
teleportation devices been understood and cobbled together by UNIT, all
kinds of advanced stuff being done by UNIT and Torchwood, we even had 
Tosh putting together a time-lock.  Added to that we have the mysterious
Mr Copper Foundation (bound to be a plot-point for the specials) helping
to develop the sub-wave network with Harriet Jones.  All this at a time 
when there is zero-evidence of any wider technological advances - lack of
space-flight and general tech around the house.  Others are with his
love of the large-scale and the need for the villains to be utterly
destroyed and the good-guys to come out with hardly a scratch.  It would
be nice if the victory the good guys win was to just put the bad-guys
plans back a little.  To live to fight another day.  It would give more
meaning to an ongoing struggle with the Daleks rather than nearly every
year have a new super-army of Daleks which gets destroyed totally.  I
would also prefer a more fallible and more alien Doctor - but that is
personal taste.

I don't require my DW to be written as pure hard SF (I don't think
many would watch it if it was) however there was far too much
hand-wavium in the story for my tastes.  At times it felt as though
it was just a tidied up bull-session.

-- 
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials" 
   - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Andy Leighton wrote:

> Absolutely.  As a spare hand can obviously help in a potential
> regeneration crisis (and it didn't actually hurt or hinder the Doctor
> when it was cut off) why don't Time Lords just lop off a hand (or some
> other body part) immediately on regenerating so that they can keep it 
> around in case of emergency?

Exactly, I think you have hit the nail on the head. RTD just creates 
ludicrous holes and flaws with this off-the-cuff generation of daft 
devices and cop-outs. As another example, assuming that the Daleks will 
eventually return even if not immediately in the next series (or two), 
we now know that the Donna/Dr invented on the spur of the moment a whole 
load of tricks to turn them into exploding spinning tops at the push of 
a button. Is the Dr going to forget that? No, of course not. So from now 
on any Daleks that appear can be destroyed at the drop of a hat. What 
sort of massive hole is that to dig oneself into?

> 
> As usual, there was lots of surface gloss but no depth to the story.  So
> many scenes just seemed to be of the "that's kewl" variety rather than
> adding to the story.  The german speaking Daleks for example added not
> one iota to the story.


I don't see that location in itself as being a problem. The castle in 
Germany was just a drawing pin-on-the-map choice. Why not? Germany was 
as good as anywhere else and it's not as though the set were that 
spectactular.


>  The entire Shadow Proclamation stuff - why?  The
> Uncle Tom Cobley and all approach to the companions - why?  Most of them
> were sidelined for way more than half the story.  Very few of them had
> anything meaningful to do -

Ooh, they all got to stand around the TARDIS console pushing switches, 
pulling levers and pumping silly whats-its in the most ridiculous scene. 
  How naff.


> Some of my issues are with RTD's vision of DW.  Generally he sees humanity 
> (well UNIT and Torchwood) as far more competent and able than I do.
> Admittedly DW has always had mad geniuses who were able to be hundreds
> of years ahead of humanity in technology.  However they were mad
> geniuses (and usually evil).  In the recent stories we have had
> teleportation devices been understood and cobbled together by UNIT, all
> kinds of advanced stuff being done by UNIT and Torchwood, we even had 
> Tosh putting together a time-lock.

I see all of these as just more holes that the DW team are digging for 
themselves. Why couldn't the Torchwood team have just found a way to 
hide for a bit longer. Why did their respite have to be at the cost of 
introducing some absurdly out of place technology? Why wasn't there an 
Osterhagen base in the USA that Martha could have got to by some more 
normal means of transport rather than gratuitously transporting to 
Germany using technology that simply didn't belong there?

>  Added to that we have the mysterious
> Mr Copper Foundation (bound to be a plot-point for the specials) helping
> to develop the sub-wave network with Harriet Jones.  All this at a time 
> when there is zero-evidence of any wider technological advances - lack of
> space-flight and general tech around the house.  Others are with his
> love of the large-scale and the need for the villains to be utterly
> destroyed and the good-guys to come out with hardly a scratch.

Yes, as I've said before it's an ill-conceived "inflationary" approach 
to evil. Evil has to be on a larger and larger scale each year and 
destroyed by an even bigger and bigger magic button. It's a 
self-defeating concept that leads to an infantile staleness and 
predictability.

>  It would
> be nice if the victory the good guys win was to just put the bad-guys
> plans back a little.  To live to fight another day.

Hmmm, let's remember that on the planet of Spiridon there is still a 
massive army of Daleks that were frozen by the third Doctor and the 
Thals. Perhaps they can be revived. That's how it should be. Not some 
outlandish nonsense with Caan transporting into the supposedly-locked 
Time War in order to rescue Davros and recreate the Daleks from scratch 
*yet again*.


>  It would give more
> meaning to an ongoing struggle with the Daleks

Meaning? You expect 21st century television drama to have meaning?

Michael

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message 
news:tdjv64ldepcvmclpnp49eitmfp14j5n9gc@4ax.com...
> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>
>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>
>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>
>>
>>Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>
>>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the
>>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as
>>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new
>>doctor and computer geek.
>
> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
> particular, daleks speaking German.
>
> But, let me get this straight....
> Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
> evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
> rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
> which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
> process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?
>

LOL....I was thinking exactly that about an hour after watching it, but 
while it was on I had fun. I think we can safely say Moffat's reign will be 
less spectacular and a little more believable....which will be more than 
welcome after that. However, I would still thank RTD for his part in 
bringing The Doctor back to our screens and I wish him all the best for the 
future.

Bring on the Cybermen!
-- 
Slitheen.
Manchester United - Back to Back Champions 2006/07, 2007/08 & Champions of 
Europe 2008.

Féachadóir wrote:
> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>
>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>
>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>
>> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>
>> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>> doctor and computer geek.
> 
> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
> particular, daleks speaking German.

Heh that *was* fun

-- 
Abo

"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every multiverse 
> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem a 
> bit of an anti climax :-)
>
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone sensible 
> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !

You might have something there,they have brought back the main enemies,maybe 
they will do a multi Doctor episode with look a likes for the dead actors 
who portrayed the Doctors.

In article <g4rsn8$hfa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
Slitheen  wrote:
>"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message 
>news:tdjv64ldepcvmclpnp49eitmfp14j5n9gc@4ax.com...
>> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>>>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
>>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
>>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
>>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>>
>>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
>>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
>>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>>
>>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>>
>>>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the
>>>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as
>>>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new
>>>doctor and computer geek.
>>
>> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
>> particular, daleks speaking German.
>>
>> But, let me get this straight....
>> Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
>> evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
>> rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
>> which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
>> process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?
>>
>
>LOL....I was thinking exactly that about an hour after watching it, but 
>while it was on I had fun. I think we can safely say Moffat's reign will be 
>less spectacular and a little more believable....which will be more than 
>welcome after that. However, I would still thank RTD for his part in 
>bringing The Doctor back to our screens and I wish him all the best for the 
>future.
>
>Bring on the Cybermen!

FRom this Universe agreed.

>-- 
>Slitheen.
>Manchester United - Back to Back Champions 2006/07, 2007/08 & Champions of 
>Europe 2008.
>
>

Man U are daleks in disguise.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

RETARD

-- 
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g4t8rp$79i$10@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <g4rsn8$hfa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Slitheen  wrote:
> >"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
> >news:tdjv64ldepcvmclpnp49eitmfp14j5n9gc@4ax.com...
> >> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
> >>>Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> >>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
> >>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
> >>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
> >>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis
and
> >>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
> >>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
> >>>>
> >>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
> >>>
> >>>Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the
> >>>population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as
> >>>usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new
> >>>doctor and computer geek.
> >>
> >> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
> >> particular, daleks speaking German.
> >>
> >> But, let me get this straight....
> >> Caan is the only surviving Dalek. He falls through time and sees the
> >> evil his race have wrought and vows to end it. Filled with guilt, he
> >> rescues Davros from the time war, allows him to rebuild a dalek race
> >> which kidnaps 27 planets, killing who knows how many millions in the
> >> process, all in order to have the doctor destroy them again?
> >>
> >
> >LOL....I was thinking exactly that about an hour after watching it, but
> >while it was on I had fun. I think we can safely say Moffat's reign will
be
> >less spectacular and a little more believable....which will be more than
> >welcome after that. However, I would still thank RTD for his part in
> >bringing The Doctor back to our screens and I wish him all the best for
the
> >future.
> >
> >Bring on the Cybermen!
>
> FRom this Universe agreed.
>
> >-- 
> >Slitheen.
> >Manchester United - Back to Back Champions 2006/07, 2007/08 & Champions
of
> >Europe 2008.
> >
> >
>
> Man U are daleks in disguise.
> -- 
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

Mark Evans wrote:
> Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:

<snip>

> Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in Doctor
> Who.


Hmmm... Earth like one big Sunnydale. ;-)


-- 
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

"Abo" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message 
news:g4sloo$fqs$1@news.albasani.net...
> Féachadóir wrote:
>> Scríobh Abo <no@spam.thanks>:
>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>>>> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is 
>>>> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>>
>>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>>>> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>>
>>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>>>
>>> Towing the planet??? That made even me cringe a little...
>>>
>>> Nice to see them not do a complete reset though. I wonder how the 
>>> population of Earth would react to that? It looked like business as 
>>> usual in the park where the Doctor dropped off Captain Jack and his new 
>>> doctor and computer geek.
>>
>> Ah now, it was great fun, lots of loud explosions and nice touches. In
>> particular, daleks speaking German.
>
> Heh that *was* fun
>
> -- 
> Abo


It must be what it is like if you select the German language when watching a 
Doctor Who DVD.....which gets me thinking, I wonder if Nick Briggs does the 
alternative Dalek languages on the DVD's? Normally, they just get foreign 
actors to do the alternative audio tracks....but the Dalek voice is pretty 
unique, and Briggs' "Exterminieren! Exterminieren!" was pretty bloody good.
-- 
Slitheen.
"I've searched the phrase 'I shall walk the Earth and my hunger shall know 
no bounds', but I keep getting redirected to Weight Watchers!"
 Ianto Jones, Torchwood.

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <g4rsn8$hfa$1@registered.motzarella.org>,
> Slitheen  wrote:
>> 
>> Bring on the Cybermen!
>
> FRom this Universe agreed.

But they do look exactly the same as the ones from the alternative 
Universe, so it doesn't really matter!

"Andy Leighton"  wrote in message 
news:slrng71pud.lfd.andyl@azaal.plus.com...
> On Sat, 5 Jul 2008 22:40:52 +0100, Manky Badger <you.must@be.joking> 
> wrote:
>>
>> "Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message
>> news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
>>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every 
>>> multiverse
>>> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem 
>>> a
>>> bit of an anti climax :-)
>>>
>>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
>>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone 
>>> sensible
>>> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>>>
>>> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.
>>
>> It was like all fanwank. Starts off good but with no thought to plot or
>> conclusion.
>
> Absolutely.  As a spare hand can obviously help in a potential
> regeneration crisis (and it didn't actually hurt or hinder the Doctor
> when it was cut off) why don't Time Lords just lop off a hand (or some
> other body part) immediately on regenerating so that they can keep it
> around in case of emergency?  Maybe toe-nail clippings might work in
> pinch when you have mislaid your spare hand.
>
> As usual, there was lots of surface gloss but no depth to the story.  So
> many scenes just seemed to be of the "that's kewl" variety rather than
> adding to the story.  The german speaking Daleks for example added not
> one iota to the story.  The entire Shadow Proclamation stuff - why?  The
> Uncle Tom Cobley and all approach to the companions - why?  Most of them
> were sidelined for way more than half the story.  Very few of them had
> anything meaningful to do - they just got one very short scene to do
> anything.  Rose was seemingly brought back just to give her a shadow of
> the real Doctor.  Characterisation seemed weak - Sarah Jane not getting
> involved with "men with guns" but walking around with bloody big alien
> bomb.
>
> Some of my issues are with RTD's vision of DW.  Generally he sees humanity
> (well UNIT and Torchwood) as far more competent and able than I do.
> Admittedly DW has always had mad geniuses who were able to be hundreds
> of years ahead of humanity in technology.  However they were mad
> geniuses (and usually evil).  In the recent stories we have had
> teleportation devices been understood and cobbled together by UNIT, all
> kinds of advanced stuff being done by UNIT and Torchwood, we even had
> Tosh putting together a time-lock.  Added to that we have the mysterious
> Mr Copper Foundation (bound to be a plot-point for the specials) helping
> to develop the sub-wave network with Harriet Jones.  All this at a time
> when there is zero-evidence of any wider technological advances - lack of
> space-flight and general tech around the house.

There were obvious hints in there about the tech being recovered alien 
technology.....weren't there? If not recently, then I seem to remember for 
definite that in a previous episode, from season 2,  the head of Torchwood 
(pre-Cap. Jack era) mentioned they had recovered LOTS of extremely advanced 
alien technology. This stuff isn't what they have just cobbled together from 
man-made tech.
-- 
Slitheen.
"I've searched the phrase 'I shall walk the Earth and my hunger shall know 
no bounds', but I keep getting redirected to Weight Watchers!"
 Ianto Jones, Torchwood.

Scríobh "Commander Gideon" :
>
>"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message 
>news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
>> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was 
>> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every multiverse 
>> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem a 
>> bit of an anti climax :-)
>>
>> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and 
>> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone sensible 
>> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>
>You might have something there,they have brought back the main enemies,maybe 
>they will do a multi Doctor episode with look a likes for the dead actors 
>who portrayed the Doctors. 

Or if the budget stretches to it, do a Trials and Tribblations type
episode. Imagine for example an episode where Ten and [random
assistant] run around Paris trying to stop the [whatever] with Ten's
plans constantly frustrated because he has to avoid running into Four
and Romana during City of Death.

It doesn't have to be that episode of course, I chose it because it's
got a fair number of actual outdoor shots, and so avoids the cheesy
sets that distinguished much of Old Who.

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:01:33 +0100, Slitheen  wrote:
> "Andy Leighton"  wrote in message 
> news:slrng71pud.lfd.andyl@azaal.plus.com...
>> Some of my issues are with RTD's vision of DW.  Generally he sees humanity
>> (well UNIT and Torchwood) as far more competent and able than I do.
>> Admittedly DW has always had mad geniuses who were able to be hundreds
>> of years ahead of humanity in technology.  However they were mad
>> geniuses (and usually evil).  In the recent stories we have had
>> teleportation devices been understood and cobbled together by UNIT, all
>> kinds of advanced stuff being done by UNIT and Torchwood, we even had
>> Tosh putting together a time-lock.  Added to that we have the mysterious
>> Mr Copper Foundation (bound to be a plot-point for the specials) helping
>> to develop the sub-wave network with Harriet Jones.  All this at a time
>> when there is zero-evidence of any wider technological advances - lack of
>> space-flight and general tech around the house.
>
> There were obvious hints in there about the tech being recovered alien 
> technology.....weren't there? If not recently, then I seem to remember for 
> definite that in a previous episode, from season 2,  the head of Torchwood 
> (pre-Cap. Jack era) mentioned they had recovered LOTS of extremely advanced 
> alien technology. This stuff isn't what they have just cobbled together from 
> man-made tech.

Sure, some of it like the transmat harness that Martha used was cobbled
out of Sontaran tech.  However even that I find too much.  In terms of
technology the Sontarans should be at least hundreds of years ahead.
They are a inter-stellar civilisation (well imperial power).  They war
with the Rutans encompasses half the galaxy.  However in about three
months UNIT was able to more or less complete Project Indigo with some
left over junk - which had probably been shot to pieces?

-- 
Andy Leighton => andyl@azaal.plus.com
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials" 
   - Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> Mark Evans wrote:
>> Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in Doctor
>> Who.
>
>
> Hmmm... Earth like one big Sunnydale. ;-)

What is this "Sunnydale" ?

(kim)

Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
> multiverse where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is
> going to seem a bit of an anti climax :-)
>
> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
> sensible can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
>
> Oh well it may have been crap, but I expect the kids liked it.

It had many flaws but was still quite good overall.

Imagine if RTD had remained in charge for another season, how many guest 
stars would it have included then?

(kim)

"Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
news:t6v474d2l6pj43jv2bjd7s4itjpdk03ccq@4ax.com...
> Scríobh "Commander Gideon" :
> >
> >"Edward Cowling London UK"  wrote in message
> >news:ZIvDpaAWZ8bIFwgm@genghis0.demon.co.uk...
> >> Part of me thought tonight was exciting, but to be honest it was
> >> ludicrously epic. Once the Dr saves all of reality across every
multiverse
> >> where does he go next ? Saving an invasion of Perivale is going to seem
a
> >> bit of an anti climax :-)
> >>
> >> Seriously I'd like to see Sylvester & Sophie turn up in the Tardis and
> >> Sylvester wakes up and says "what a strange dream". Then someone
sensible
> >> can start the new Dr Who sensibly !
> >
> >You might have something there,they have brought back the main
enemies,maybe
> >they will do a multi Doctor episode with look a likes for the dead actors
> >who portrayed the Doctors.
>
> Or if the budget stretches to it, do a Trials and Tribblations type
> episode. Imagine for example an episode where Ten and [random
> assistant] run around Paris trying to stop the [whatever] with Ten's
> plans constantly frustrated because he has to avoid running into Four
> and Romana during City of Death.
>
> It doesn't have to be that episode of course, I chose it because it's
> got a fair number of actual outdoor shots, and so avoids the cheesy
> sets that distinguished much of Old Who.
>
> -- 
> 'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
> © Féachadóir


Hey, if we get more Duggan sighting that works for me, he was fun.  City of
Death was one of my alltime faves, probably because it had Julian Glover,
who is always excellent in everything he does.

Funny thing about Glovers, the most famous one (Danny) is IMHO an overrated
actor, yet the two less famous ones (Julian and John) are phenomenal actors.

Steve

On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Stephen O'Connell wrote:

>>> Bring on the Cybermen!
>> 
>> FRom this Universe agreed.
>
> But they do look exactly the same as the ones from the alternative Universe, 
> so it doesn't really matter!

Except for:
1) the lack of a trademarked logo on the chest plate
2) the use of Gold as a weapon against them
3) the "impossible movement between universes through the void" being 
child's play
4) parallel universe cybermen haven't spread across space

Preacher wrote:

> "Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
> news:t6v474d2l6pj43jv2bjd7s4itjpdk03ccq@4ax.com...
> 

>>Or if the budget stretches to it, do a Trials and Tribblations type
>>episode. Imagine for example an episode where Ten and [random
>>assistant] run around Paris trying to stop the [whatever] with Ten's
>>plans constantly frustrated because he has to avoid running into Four
>>and Romana during City of Death.
>>
> Hey, if we get more Duggan sighting that works for me, he was fun.  City of
> Death was one of my alltime faves,

I agree wholeheartedly on those two points.

> 
> Funny thing about Glovers, the most famous one (Danny) is IMHO an overrated
> actor, yet the two less famous ones (Julian and John) are phenomenal actors.

I always preferred Brian Glover! Did he ever appear in Doctor Who?

Michael

"The Master" <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote in message 
news:Pine.NEB.4.64.0807081354331.6019@sdf.lonestar.org...
> On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>
>>>> Bring on the Cybermen!
>>>
>>> FRom this Universe agreed.
>>
>> But they do look exactly the same as the ones from the alternative 
>> Universe, so it doesn't really matter!
>
> Except for:
> 1) the lack of a trademarked logo on the chest plate
> 2) the use of Gold as a weapon against them
> 3) the "impossible movement between universes through the void" being 
> child's play
> 4) parallel universe cybermen haven't spread across space

I think we can discount point 2. The Cybermen are cybernetic. All they need 
to do is develop a system that is not affected by gold. Evolve. And surely 
that development wouldn't take them more than a couple of months...

Scríobh Michael Kilpatrick :
>Preacher wrote:
>
>> "Féachadóir" <Féach@d.óir> wrote in message
>> news:t6v474d2l6pj43jv2bjd7s4itjpdk03ccq@4ax.com...
>> 
>
>>>Or if the budget stretches to it, do a Trials and Tribblations type
>>>episode. Imagine for example an episode where Ten and [random
>>>assistant] run around Paris trying to stop the [whatever] with Ten's
>>>plans constantly frustrated because he has to avoid running into Four
>>>and Romana during City of Death.
>>>
>> Hey, if we get more Duggan sighting that works for me, he was fun.  City of
>> Death was one of my alltime faves,
>
>I agree wholeheartedly on those two points.
>
>> 
>> Funny thing about Glovers, the most famous one (Danny) is IMHO an overrated
>> actor, yet the two less famous ones (Julian and John) are phenomenal actors.
>
>I always preferred Brian Glover! Did he ever appear in Doctor Who?

Leader of the Planet Tetley?

-- 
'Donegal:  Up Here It's Different'
© Féachadóir

On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Stephen Wilson wrote:

> I think we can discount point 2. The Cybermen are cybernetic. All they need
> to do is develop a system that is not affected by gold. Evolve. And surely
> that development wouldn't take them more than a couple of months...

But as the Doctor pointed out to the parallel earth cybermen, once they 
reached their cybernetic reality, the desire to evolve disapeared since 
creativity was eliminated.  Would an emotionless human brain be able to 
rationalize the need to "evolve" the respration units because gold can 
clog them up?  Probably not...

On Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:48:13 +0100, Michael Kilpatrick wrote:

> I always preferred Brian Glover! Did he ever appear in Doctor Who?

Griffiths in Attack of the Cybermen.

Dave...

In article ,
The Master  <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
>On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>
>>>> Bring on the Cybermen!
>>> 
>>> FRom this Universe agreed.
>>
>> But they do look exactly the same as the ones from the alternative Universe, 
>> so it doesn't really matter!
>
>Except for:
>1) the lack of a trademarked logo on the chest plate
>2) the use of Gold as a weapon against them
>3) the "impossible movement between universes through the void" being 
>child's play
>4) parallel universe cybermen haven't spread across space

A good thing they got /dev/null'ed.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

In article ,
The Master  <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
>On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Stephen Wilson wrote:
>
>> I think we can discount point 2. The Cybermen are cybernetic. All they need
>> to do is develop a system that is not affected by gold. Evolve. And surely
>> that development wouldn't take them more than a couple of months...
>
>But as the Doctor pointed out to the parallel earth cybermen, once they 
>reached their cybernetic reality, the desire to evolve disapeared since 
>creativity was eliminated.  Would an emotionless human brain be able to 
>rationalize the need to "evolve" the respration units because gold can 
>clog them up?  Probably not...

Maybe they evolved differently.  Mondas , no atmosphere; parallel, 
body death.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, The Doctor wrote:

> Maybe they evolved differently.  Mondas , no atmosphere; parallel,
> body death.

Hu?  No no no...  I'm saying bring back the "this universe" Mondas 
Cybermen, and stop using the parallel earth nutjobs...  The over use of 
"delete" is annoying.

In  Andy Leighton  writes:

>On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 21:01:33 +0100, Slitheen  wrote:

<snip>

>> There were obvious hints in there about the tech being recovered alien 
>> technology.....weren't there? If not recently, then I seem to remember for 
>> definite that in a previous episode, from season 2,  the head of Torchwood 
>> (pre-Cap. Jack era) mentioned they had recovered LOTS of extremely advanced 
>> alien technology. This stuff isn't what they have just cobbled together from 
>> man-made tech.

>Sure, some of it like the transmat harness that Martha used was cobbled
>out of Sontaran tech.  However even that I find too much.  In terms of
>technology the Sontarans should be at least hundreds of years ahead.
>They are a inter-stellar civilisation (well imperial power).  They war
>with the Rutans encompasses half the galaxy.  However in about three
>months UNIT was able to more or less complete Project Indigo with some
>left over junk - which had probably been shot to pieces?

What happened to the one in the boy-genius's lab?

-- 
Remove any bits of tatt after the at in my address to reply

GIBBERISH

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g504te$out$8@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article ,
> The Master  <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
> >On Mon, 7 Jul 2008, Stephen O'Connell wrote:
> >
> >>>> Bring on the Cybermen!
> >>>
> >>> FRom this Universe agreed.
> >>
> >> But they do look exactly the same as the ones from the alternative
Universe,
> >> so it doesn't really matter!
> >
> >Except for:
> >1) the lack of a trademarked logo on the chest plate
> >2) the use of Gold as a weapon against them
> >3) the "impossible movement between universes through the void" being
> >child's play
> >4) parallel universe cybermen haven't spread across space
>
> A good thing they got /dev/null'ed.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

It is a telly play

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous

"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g50538$out$9@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article ,
> The Master  <tardis@nospam.sdf.lonestar.org.nospam> wrote:
> >On Tue, 8 Jul 2008, Stephen Wilson wrote:
> >
> >> I think we can discount point 2. The Cybermen are cybernetic. All they
need
> >> to do is develop a system that is not affected by gold. Evolve. And
surely
> >> that development wouldn't take them more than a couple of months...
> >
> >But as the Doctor pointed out to the parallel earth cybermen, once they
> >reached their cybernetic reality, the desire to evolve disapeared since
> >creativity was eliminated.  Would an emotionless human brain be able to
> >rationalize the need to "evolve" the respration units because gold can
> >clog them up?  Probably not...
>
> Maybe they evolved differently.  Mondas , no atmosphere; parallel,
> body death.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

kim wrote:
> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>> Mark Evans wrote:
>>> Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in
>>> Doctor Who.
>>
>>
>> Hmmm... Earth like one big Sunnydale. ;-)
>
> What is this "Sunnydale" ?
>

Did you ever see 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_the_Vampire_Slayer_%28TV_series%29

Sunnydale was the fictional town where Buffy Summers lived. Until the whole 
place got sucked into a closing Hell Mouth.
Most of the time, whatever happened, the people living there seemed to block 
out the existence of vampires etc.
Buffy's mom Joyce was notoriously oblivious. Until she saw her daughter slay 
a vampire in front of her.

-- 
www.woutervalentijn.net

www.nksf.scifics.com/nksfseries.html

liam=mail

On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
> It is a telly play

I know. Good isn't it?

Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
scenery once in a while.

 - Richard

Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> kim wrote:
>> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
>>> Mark Evans wrote:
>>>> Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>>>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in
>>>> Doctor Who.
>>>
>>>
>>> Hmmm... Earth like one big Sunnydale. ;-)
>>
>> What is this "Sunnydale" ?
>>
>
> Did you ever see 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer'?

No, because this is a UK newsgroup and only "very sad" people in the UK ever 
watched Buffy. Just ask Edward? :o)

(kim)

In article ,
Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
>> It is a telly play
>
>I know. Good isn't it?
>
>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
>scenery once in a while.
>
> - Richard
>

Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

"The Doctor"  wrote in message 
news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article ,
> Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
>>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
>>> It is a telly play
>>
>>I know. Good isn't it?
>>
>>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
>>scenery once in a while.
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>
> Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.




Don't be stupid.  How can you possibly know that?


> -- 
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article ,
> Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
>>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
>>> It is a telly play
>>
>>I know. Good isn't it?
>>
>>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
>>scenery once in a while.
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>
> Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.




Don't be stupid.  How can you possibly know that?

And if it's true: how sad!  Everyone should own a TV - at least to watch 
"Doctor Who"...



> -- 
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

And you watch your mothers thirteen inch black and white

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article ,
> Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> >On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
> >> It is a telly play
> >
> >I know. Good isn't it?
> >
> >Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
> >scenery once in a while.
> >
> > - Richard
> >
>
> Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

In article <q2Uck.6$Zm1.1@newsfe27.ams2>,
john smith  wrote:
>
>"The Doctor"  wrote in message
>news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
>> In article ,
>> Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
>>>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
>>>> It is a telly play
>>>
>>>I know. Good isn't it?
>>>
>>>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
>>>scenery once in a while.
>>>
>>> - Richard
>>>
>>
>> Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.
>
>
>
>
>Don't be stupid.  How can you possibly know that?
>
>And if it's true: how sad!  Everyone should own a TV - at least to watch 
>"Doctor Who"...
>
>
>
>> -- 
>> Member - Liberal International
>> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
>> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
>> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!
>
>
>

Top Poster does not watch DW let alone TV.
-- 
Member - Liberal International	
This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca	Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!  
USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

Yads is full of lies

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"john smith"  wrote in message
news:q2Uck.6$Zm1.1@newsfe27.ams2...
>
> "The Doctor"  wrote in message
> news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> > In article ,
> > Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> >>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
> >>> It is a telly play
> >>
> >>I know. Good isn't it?
> >>
> >>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
> >>scenery once in a while.
> >>
> >> - Richard
> >>
> >
> > Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.
>
>
>
>
> Don't be stupid.  How can you possibly know that?
>
> And if it's true: how sad!  Everyone should own a TV - at least to watch
> "Doctor Who"...
>
>
>
> > --
> > Member - Liberal International
> > This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> > God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> > USA petition for dissolution of your nation!
>
>
>

You seem to enjoy telling lies

--
Socrates taught his students that the pursuit of truth can only begin once
they start to question and analyze every belief that they ever held dear. If
a certain belief passes the tests of evidence, deduction, and logic, it
should be kept. If it doesn't, the belief should not only be discarded, but
the thinker must also then question why he was led to believe the erroneous


"The Doctor"  wrote in message
news:g512ml$ice$16@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> In article <q2Uck.6$Zm1.1@newsfe27.ams2>,
> john smith  wrote:
> >
> >"The Doctor"  wrote in message
> >news:g511q7$ice$6@gallifrey.nk.ca...
> >> In article
,
> >> Richard Corfield  <Richard.Corfield@REVERSE.uk.me.littondale> wrote:
> >>>On 2008-07-08, Top Poster <Top> wrote:
> >>>> It is a telly play
> >>>
> >>>I know. Good isn't it?
> >>>
> >>>Not like those old fangled stage plays where they had to stop to change
> >>>scenery once in a while.
> >>>
> >>> - Richard
> >>>
> >>
> >> Top Poster is too poor to own a TV.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Don't be stupid.  How can you possibly know that?
> >
> >And if it's true: how sad!  Everyone should own a TV - at least to watch
> >"Doctor Who"...
> >
> >
> >
> >> --
> >> Member - Liberal International
> >> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> >> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> >> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!
> >
> >
> >
>
> Top Poster does not watch DW let alone TV.
> --
> Member - Liberal International
> This is doctor@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doctor@nl2k.ab.ca
> God, Queen and country! Beware Anti-Christ rising!
> USA petition for dissolution of your nation!

Andy Leighton wrote:

> Added to that we have the
> mysterious Mr Copper Foundation (bound to be a plot-point for the
> specials) helping to develop the sub-wave network with Harriet Jones.

Did you get that reference because I didn't until RTD mentioned it in 
Confidential?

(kim)

On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 01:45:44 +0100, kim wrote:

> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> > kim wrote:
> >> Wouter Valentijn wrote:
> >>> Mark Evans wrote:
> >>>> Abo <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
> >>>>> Edward Cowling London UK wrote:
> >>>
> >>> <snip>
> >>>
> >>>> Which is the way the average Human reacts after an invasion in
> >>>> Doctor Who.
> >>>
> >>> Hmmm... Earth like one big Sunnydale. ;-)
> >>
> >> What is thi