I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
posted in a month.

play.com have the discounted DVD here.

http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html

Release date is 3rd September 2007.

No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.

Regards

Ian

Ian Jones wrote:
> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
> posted in a month.
>
> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>
> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>
> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>
> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Ian Jones wrote:
>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>> posted in a month.
>>
>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>
>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>
>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>
>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month..... 

I'll be borrowing someone else's.

I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>> posted in a month.
>>>
>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>
>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>
>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>
>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.

>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)



                  All the best,
                        Angus Manwaring.       (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)

I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html

On 23 May 2007 18:56:9 +0000, "Angus Manwaring"
 wrote:

>On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
>><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>>> posted in a month.
>>>>
>>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>>
>>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>>
>>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)

Sorry, I was in a good mood... :-)

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
give a shit rating" on this is about -247.


-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>wrote:
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>give a shit rating" on this is about -247.

Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of turgid
dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the likes of
Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio 60, all of
which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything that's come out of
any Synthetic World...

Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
amateurs!

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Paul Harper wrote:

> Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
> that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
> amateurs!

I don't know.  For what it is doing the dialogue in the West Wing is 
absolutely brilliantly suited but it is clearly highly unrealistic.  I 
can well imagine other dramas in which WW style language would just seem 
out of place.


> 
> Paul.


-- 
Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one 
plank removed.  Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, 
forequarters, back and finally the tail.  He pondered this for a time 
and eventually declared. “I understand now.  The nose causes the tail”

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>
>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>
>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>
> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>

??????????
So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
the rest.

They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
so you are synthetic also.

So what is the difference.

I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
it's story & reality...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 23:51:42 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Harper wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>>
>>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>>
>> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
>> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
>> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
>> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
>> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>
>??????????
>So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
>the rest.
>
>They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
>so you are synthetic also.
>
>So what is the difference.

Clue: "Synthetic Reality" was capitalised. It's a name.

>I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
>Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
>which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
>lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
>it's story & reality... 

Well, ignoring for the moment the impossibility of lurking *and*
posting... <grin!>

(This is going to sound like a rant, but trust me when I say that I
have gone way beyond ranting about this, and am at a stage of deep,
resigned sadness about the whole thing, in a "Waiting for God" kind of
way...)

.... you do inadvertently raise an interesting point in your use of the
phrase "Babylon 5 reality".

Babylon 5 reality isn't what it used to be and I miss the old one. I
resent its passing and I resent its corrupting and its cheapening.

Back in the heady "old days" (mid 1990's), the reality of Babylon 5
was that it stood for something. Something quite important really. And
a lot of very likeable and very intelligent people (from my less than
lofty perspective) thought so too.

The stories were thought-provoking, usually, the perspectives and
morality a little right-wing and "American" at times but normally
worthy and it achieved a rare thing with its huge scope told from a
local point of view. A real "Lord of the Rings" in space, if you like.

Okay, the dialogue was all speeches which sounded like it was written
by an enthusiastic ten year-old at times, but that could be ignored
because of the story - and if all else failed, there were Ron
Thornton's & Mojo's stunning Chris Foss-inspired battley-bits!.

And the show-runner descended from on high and talked to us minions
and made great-sounding noises about the show's integrity and how this
wasn't some Deep Space franchise and how there was a five year story
and nothing else and how important it was that it remain that way and
the like.

The whole package attracted a fair number of like-minded fans who - in
the UK at least - gathered both online and physically on a regular
basis to watch the show, talk about it and generally have a good (and
on most occasions) silly time because of it. Great times - Babblings
rocked!! (and we raised several thousand pounds for charity over the
years too, which is cool).

That's the reality as it was back in the mid/late 1990's. If it sounds
like an unlikely combination of rose-tinted and sepia-toned, then
that's what it was. It was a good time.

But then the real reality started creeping around the edges. The hissy
fits at conventions, the selling-out of the story integrity to make
yet another pilot, or yet another teevee movie, or a spin-off series,
or another book, or a magazine, or a t-shirt, or.....

All of a sudden, in a baseball-bat-in-the-face kind of way we got
glimpses that this precious integrity and high-sounding idealism was
nothing but a thin facade draped around the usual TV-land bullshit.
It, sadly, WAS all about The Franchise. It was all about Making The
Money.

It wasn't just like Start Wreck, it was worse, because we'd been
suckered into believing that this media machine was nothing of the
sort. Suckered into believing that it was something special, something
different. And boy were we suckered.

The "Babylon 5 reality" is, sadly, that it *is* a Deep Space
franchise. A hook from which to dangle in front of the fans any number
of "special opportunities" that always involved the special
opportunity to throw some more money at the big shots.

It wasn't special, it was just the same as all the others. A rip-off
for us gullible types. And I do include myself in that category.

THAT is the Babylon 5 reality that I dislike.

But like anything in life, it's not the destination that's important
but the journey. And the journey through the old, infinitely better,
integrity-based reality to the current disappointing, but with
hindsight tediously inevitable reality was very much worth traveling.

Through Babblings, I have had the honour of meeting some of the most
likeable, most memorable and most trustworthy people I am ever going
to meet in my one-off time on this planet. And that's all down to what
Babylon 5 used to mean, and for that I shall always be *incredibly*
grateful to it.

And for the life lesson about the ease with which idealism can be
corrupted beyond all recognition I shall also be incredibly grateful
to Babylon 5. A lot of my "traditional English cynicism" is in place
today because of Babylon 5, and that has stood me in good stead over
the years, and looks to always do so.

So when you say that I have "decided to move on and haven't decided
which one yet", you're only partially right. Yes, I have moved on, but
I shall never again invest so much of myself in someone else's ego
trip.

Because I know that from now on if I believe there will *always* be
some bastard there taking advantage, taking the money or just plain
taking the piss, then the vast majority of the time I will be right.

Paul (Bitter? No. More experienced? Yup, but still grateful).

On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>"Synthetic Reality"

Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.

Paul.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
> wrote:
>
>> "Synthetic Reality"
>
> Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.
>
> Paul.

I'll reply to both your posts from with this one.

I'll agree with you...up to a point & that is...

How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

If JS has been given (fairly) free reign & remains true to the 
reality/ideals/world of B5 then how can these new stories be a bad 
thing & that cannot be judged until at least 2 DVDs have been 
released.

Why 2??  It is possible for him to write a bad script & he has to be 
allowed to be able to get the stage crew & actors back into the 
melting pot again.

To me B5 was escapism & yet true enough to reality, for instance every 
one of the lead characters was flawed but they worked they way thru 
these flaws to the ultimate good.

Any new material true to the original concept & having the chance of 
filling in details, giving closure to many of the sub plots which were 
left dangling along the way should be given a chance & not aborted 
before they have a chance of coming to fruition.

If after 2 releases it's discovered that it's just a money spinner 
then even I won't give them a second look..

As for lurking...well I keep my head down most of the time as I'm 
relatively house bound (due to circumstances not health) so am not 
able to go to the conventions & other get togethers so am very much 
not part of the in crowd.  As the postings on both the UK B5 
newsgroups are very much an in group thing I don't indulge but when I 
see anti B5 postings in a B5 newsgroups I can't help but wonder why.

Ian Jones wrote:
> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
> posted in a month.
>
> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>
> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>
> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>
> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Ian Jones wrote:
>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>> posted in a month.
>>
>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>
>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>
>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>
>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month..... 

I'll be borrowing someone else's.

I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>> posted in a month.
>>>
>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>
>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>
>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>
>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.

>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)



                  All the best,
                        Angus Manwaring.       (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)

I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html

On 23 May 2007 18:56:9 +0000, "Angus Manwaring"
 wrote:

>On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
>><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>>> posted in a month.
>>>>
>>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>>
>>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>>
>>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)

Sorry, I was in a good mood... :-)

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
give a shit rating" on this is about -247.


-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>wrote:
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>give a shit rating" on this is about -247.

Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of turgid
dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the likes of
Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio 60, all of
which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything that's come out of
any Synthetic World...

Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
amateurs!

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Paul Harper wrote:

> Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
> that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
> amateurs!

I don't know.  For what it is doing the dialogue in the West Wing is 
absolutely brilliantly suited but it is clearly highly unrealistic.  I 
can well imagine other dramas in which WW style language would just seem 
out of place.


> 
> Paul.


-- 
Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one 
plank removed.  Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, 
forequarters, back and finally the tail.  He pondered this for a time 
and eventually declared. “I understand now.  The nose causes the tail”

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>
>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>
>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>
> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>

??????????
So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
the rest.

They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
so you are synthetic also.

So what is the difference.

I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
it's story & reality...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 23:51:42 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Harper wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>>
>>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>>
>> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
>> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
>> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
>> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
>> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>
>??????????
>So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
>the rest.
>
>They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
>so you are synthetic also.
>
>So what is the difference.

Clue: "Synthetic Reality" was capitalised. It's a name.

>I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
>Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
>which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
>lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
>it's story & reality... 

Well, ignoring for the moment the impossibility of lurking *and*
posting... <grin!>

(This is going to sound like a rant, but trust me when I say that I
have gone way beyond ranting about this, and am at a stage of deep,
resigned sadness about the whole thing, in a "Waiting for God" kind of
way...)

.... you do inadvertently raise an interesting point in your use of the
phrase "Babylon 5 reality".

Babylon 5 reality isn't what it used to be and I miss the old one. I
resent its passing and I resent its corrupting and its cheapening.

Back in the heady "old days" (mid 1990's), the reality of Babylon 5
was that it stood for something. Something quite important really. And
a lot of very likeable and very intelligent people (from my less than
lofty perspective) thought so too.

The stories were thought-provoking, usually, the perspectives and
morality a little right-wing and "American" at times but normally
worthy and it achieved a rare thing with its huge scope told from a
local point of view. A real "Lord of the Rings" in space, if you like.

Okay, the dialogue was all speeches which sounded like it was written
by an enthusiastic ten year-old at times, but that could be ignored
because of the story - and if all else failed, there were Ron
Thornton's & Mojo's stunning Chris Foss-inspired battley-bits!.

And the show-runner descended from on high and talked to us minions
and made great-sounding noises about the show's integrity and how this
wasn't some Deep Space franchise and how there was a five year story
and nothing else and how important it was that it remain that way and
the like.

The whole package attracted a fair number of like-minded fans who - in
the UK at least - gathered both online and physically on a regular
basis to watch the show, talk about it and generally have a good (and
on most occasions) silly time because of it. Great times - Babblings
rocked!! (and we raised several thousand pounds for charity over the
years too, which is cool).

That's the reality as it was back in the mid/late 1990's. If it sounds
like an unlikely combination of rose-tinted and sepia-toned, then
that's what it was. It was a good time.

But then the real reality started creeping around the edges. The hissy
fits at conventions, the selling-out of the story integrity to make
yet another pilot, or yet another teevee movie, or a spin-off series,
or another book, or a magazine, or a t-shirt, or.....

All of a sudden, in a baseball-bat-in-the-face kind of way we got
glimpses that this precious integrity and high-sounding idealism was
nothing but a thin facade draped around the usual TV-land bullshit.
It, sadly, WAS all about The Franchise. It was all about Making The
Money.

It wasn't just like Start Wreck, it was worse, because we'd been
suckered into believing that this media machine was nothing of the
sort. Suckered into believing that it was something special, something
different. And boy were we suckered.

The "Babylon 5 reality" is, sadly, that it *is* a Deep Space
franchise. A hook from which to dangle in front of the fans any number
of "special opportunities" that always involved the special
opportunity to throw some more money at the big shots.

It wasn't special, it was just the same as all the others. A rip-off
for us gullible types. And I do include myself in that category.

THAT is the Babylon 5 reality that I dislike.

But like anything in life, it's not the destination that's important
but the journey. And the journey through the old, infinitely better,
integrity-based reality to the current disappointing, but with
hindsight tediously inevitable reality was very much worth traveling.

Through Babblings, I have had the honour of meeting some of the most
likeable, most memorable and most trustworthy people I am ever going
to meet in my one-off time on this planet. And that's all down to what
Babylon 5 used to mean, and for that I shall always be *incredibly*
grateful to it.

And for the life lesson about the ease with which idealism can be
corrupted beyond all recognition I shall also be incredibly grateful
to Babylon 5. A lot of my "traditional English cynicism" is in place
today because of Babylon 5, and that has stood me in good stead over
the years, and looks to always do so.

So when you say that I have "decided to move on and haven't decided
which one yet", you're only partially right. Yes, I have moved on, but
I shall never again invest so much of myself in someone else's ego
trip.

Because I know that from now on if I believe there will *always* be
some bastard there taking advantage, taking the money or just plain
taking the piss, then the vast majority of the time I will be right.

Paul (Bitter? No. More experienced? Yup, but still grateful).

On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>"Synthetic Reality"

Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.

Paul.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
> wrote:
>
>> "Synthetic Reality"
>
> Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.
>
> Paul.

I'll reply to both your posts from with this one.

I'll agree with you...up to a point & that is...

How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

If JS has been given (fairly) free reign & remains true to the 
reality/ideals/world of B5 then how can these new stories be a bad 
thing & that cannot be judged until at least 2 DVDs have been 
released.

Why 2??  It is possible for him to write a bad script & he has to be 
allowed to be able to get the stage crew & actors back into the 
melting pot again.

To me B5 was escapism & yet true enough to reality, for instance every 
one of the lead characters was flawed but they worked they way thru 
these flaws to the ultimate good.

Any new material true to the original concept & having the chance of 
filling in details, giving closure to many of the sub plots which were 
left dangling along the way should be given a chance & not aborted 
before they have a chance of coming to fruition.

If after 2 releases it's discovered that it's just a money spinner 
then even I won't give them a second look..

As for lurking...well I keep my head down most of the time as I'm 
relatively house bound (due to circumstances not health) so am not 
able to go to the conventions & other get togethers so am very much 
not part of the in crowd.  As the postings on both the UK B5 
newsgroups are very much an in group thing I don't indulge but when I 
see anti B5 postings in a B5 newsgroups I can't help but wonder why.

Ian Jones wrote:
> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
> posted in a month.
>
> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>
> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>
> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>
> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Ian Jones wrote:
>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>> posted in a month.
>>
>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>
>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>
>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>
>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month..... 

I'll be borrowing someone else's.

I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>> posted in a month.
>>>
>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>
>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>
>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>
>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.

>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)



                  All the best,
                        Angus Manwaring.       (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)

I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html

On 23 May 2007 18:56:9 +0000, "Angus Manwaring"
 wrote:

>On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
>><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>>> posted in a month.
>>>>
>>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>>
>>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>>
>>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)

Sorry, I was in a good mood... :-)

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
give a shit rating" on this is about -247.


-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>wrote:
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>give a shit rating" on this is about -247.

Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of turgid
dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the likes of
Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio 60, all of
which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything that's come out of
any Synthetic World...

Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
amateurs!

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Paul Harper wrote:

> Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
> that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
> amateurs!

I don't know.  For what it is doing the dialogue in the West Wing is 
absolutely brilliantly suited but it is clearly highly unrealistic.  I 
can well imagine other dramas in which WW style language would just seem 
out of place.


> 
> Paul.


-- 
Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one 
plank removed.  Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, 
forequarters, back and finally the tail.  He pondered this for a time 
and eventually declared. “I understand now.  The nose causes the tail”

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>
>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>
>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>
> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>

??????????
So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
the rest.

They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
so you are synthetic also.

So what is the difference.

I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
it's story & reality...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 23:51:42 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Harper wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>>
>>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>>
>> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
>> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
>> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
>> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
>> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>
>??????????
>So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
>the rest.
>
>They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
>so you are synthetic also.
>
>So what is the difference.

Clue: "Synthetic Reality" was capitalised. It's a name.

>I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
>Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
>which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
>lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
>it's story & reality... 

Well, ignoring for the moment the impossibility of lurking *and*
posting... <grin!>

(This is going to sound like a rant, but trust me when I say that I
have gone way beyond ranting about this, and am at a stage of deep,
resigned sadness about the whole thing, in a "Waiting for God" kind of
way...)

.... you do inadvertently raise an interesting point in your use of the
phrase "Babylon 5 reality".

Babylon 5 reality isn't what it used to be and I miss the old one. I
resent its passing and I resent its corrupting and its cheapening.

Back in the heady "old days" (mid 1990's), the reality of Babylon 5
was that it stood for something. Something quite important really. And
a lot of very likeable and very intelligent people (from my less than
lofty perspective) thought so too.

The stories were thought-provoking, usually, the perspectives and
morality a little right-wing and "American" at times but normally
worthy and it achieved a rare thing with its huge scope told from a
local point of view. A real "Lord of the Rings" in space, if you like.

Okay, the dialogue was all speeches which sounded like it was written
by an enthusiastic ten year-old at times, but that could be ignored
because of the story - and if all else failed, there were Ron
Thornton's & Mojo's stunning Chris Foss-inspired battley-bits!.

And the show-runner descended from on high and talked to us minions
and made great-sounding noises about the show's integrity and how this
wasn't some Deep Space franchise and how there was a five year story
and nothing else and how important it was that it remain that way and
the like.

The whole package attracted a fair number of like-minded fans who - in
the UK at least - gathered both online and physically on a regular
basis to watch the show, talk about it and generally have a good (and
on most occasions) silly time because of it. Great times - Babblings
rocked!! (and we raised several thousand pounds for charity over the
years too, which is cool).

That's the reality as it was back in the mid/late 1990's. If it sounds
like an unlikely combination of rose-tinted and sepia-toned, then
that's what it was. It was a good time.

But then the real reality started creeping around the edges. The hissy
fits at conventions, the selling-out of the story integrity to make
yet another pilot, or yet another teevee movie, or a spin-off series,
or another book, or a magazine, or a t-shirt, or.....

All of a sudden, in a baseball-bat-in-the-face kind of way we got
glimpses that this precious integrity and high-sounding idealism was
nothing but a thin facade draped around the usual TV-land bullshit.
It, sadly, WAS all about The Franchise. It was all about Making The
Money.

It wasn't just like Start Wreck, it was worse, because we'd been
suckered into believing that this media machine was nothing of the
sort. Suckered into believing that it was something special, something
different. And boy were we suckered.

The "Babylon 5 reality" is, sadly, that it *is* a Deep Space
franchise. A hook from which to dangle in front of the fans any number
of "special opportunities" that always involved the special
opportunity to throw some more money at the big shots.

It wasn't special, it was just the same as all the others. A rip-off
for us gullible types. And I do include myself in that category.

THAT is the Babylon 5 reality that I dislike.

But like anything in life, it's not the destination that's important
but the journey. And the journey through the old, infinitely better,
integrity-based reality to the current disappointing, but with
hindsight tediously inevitable reality was very much worth traveling.

Through Babblings, I have had the honour of meeting some of the most
likeable, most memorable and most trustworthy people I am ever going
to meet in my one-off time on this planet. And that's all down to what
Babylon 5 used to mean, and for that I shall always be *incredibly*
grateful to it.

And for the life lesson about the ease with which idealism can be
corrupted beyond all recognition I shall also be incredibly grateful
to Babylon 5. A lot of my "traditional English cynicism" is in place
today because of Babylon 5, and that has stood me in good stead over
the years, and looks to always do so.

So when you say that I have "decided to move on and haven't decided
which one yet", you're only partially right. Yes, I have moved on, but
I shall never again invest so much of myself in someone else's ego
trip.

Because I know that from now on if I believe there will *always* be
some bastard there taking advantage, taking the money or just plain
taking the piss, then the vast majority of the time I will be right.

Paul (Bitter? No. More experienced? Yup, but still grateful).

On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>"Synthetic Reality"

Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.

Paul.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
> wrote:
>
>> "Synthetic Reality"
>
> Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.
>
> Paul.

I'll reply to both your posts from with this one.

I'll agree with you...up to a point & that is...

How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

If JS has been given (fairly) free reign & remains true to the 
reality/ideals/world of B5 then how can these new stories be a bad 
thing & that cannot be judged until at least 2 DVDs have been 
released.

Why 2??  It is possible for him to write a bad script & he has to be 
allowed to be able to get the stage crew & actors back into the 
melting pot again.

To me B5 was escapism & yet true enough to reality, for instance every 
one of the lead characters was flawed but they worked they way thru 
these flaws to the ultimate good.

Any new material true to the original concept & having the chance of 
filling in details, giving closure to many of the sub plots which were 
left dangling along the way should be given a chance & not aborted 
before they have a chance of coming to fruition.

If after 2 releases it's discovered that it's just a money spinner 
then even I won't give them a second look..

As for lurking...well I keep my head down most of the time as I'm 
relatively house bound (due to circumstances not health) so am not 
able to go to the conventions & other get togethers so am very much 
not part of the in crowd.  As the postings on both the UK B5 
newsgroups are very much an in group thing I don't indulge but when I 
see anti B5 postings in a B5 newsgroups I can't help but wonder why.

Ian Jones wrote:
> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
> posted in a month.
>
> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>
> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>
> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>
> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Ian Jones wrote:
>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>> posted in a month.
>>
>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>
>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>
>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>
>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month..... 

I'll be borrowing someone else's.

I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>> posted in a month.
>>>
>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>
>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>
>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>
>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.

>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)



                  All the best,
                        Angus Manwaring.       (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)

I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html

On 23 May 2007 18:56:9 +0000, "Angus Manwaring"
 wrote:

>On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
>><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>>> posted in a month.
>>>>
>>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>>
>>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>>
>>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)

Sorry, I was in a good mood... :-)

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
give a shit rating" on this is about -247.


-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>wrote:
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>give a shit rating" on this is about -247.

Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of turgid
dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the likes of
Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio 60, all of
which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything that's come out of
any Synthetic World...

Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
amateurs!

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Paul Harper wrote:

> Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
> that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
> amateurs!

I don't know.  For what it is doing the dialogue in the West Wing is 
absolutely brilliantly suited but it is clearly highly unrealistic.  I 
can well imagine other dramas in which WW style language would just seem 
out of place.


> 
> Paul.


-- 
Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one 
plank removed.  Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, 
forequarters, back and finally the tail.  He pondered this for a time 
and eventually declared. “I understand now.  The nose causes the tail”

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>
>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>
>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>
> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>

??????????
So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
the rest.

They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
so you are synthetic also.

So what is the difference.

I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
it's story & reality...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 23:51:42 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Harper wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>>
>>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>>
>> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
>> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
>> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
>> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
>> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>
>??????????
>So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
>the rest.
>
>They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
>so you are synthetic also.
>
>So what is the difference.

Clue: "Synthetic Reality" was capitalised. It's a name.

>I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
>Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
>which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
>lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
>it's story & reality... 

Well, ignoring for the moment the impossibility of lurking *and*
posting... <grin!>

(This is going to sound like a rant, but trust me when I say that I
have gone way beyond ranting about this, and am at a stage of deep,
resigned sadness about the whole thing, in a "Waiting for God" kind of
way...)

.... you do inadvertently raise an interesting point in your use of the
phrase "Babylon 5 reality".

Babylon 5 reality isn't what it used to be and I miss the old one. I
resent its passing and I resent its corrupting and its cheapening.

Back in the heady "old days" (mid 1990's), the reality of Babylon 5
was that it stood for something. Something quite important really. And
a lot of very likeable and very intelligent people (from my less than
lofty perspective) thought so too.

The stories were thought-provoking, usually, the perspectives and
morality a little right-wing and "American" at times but normally
worthy and it achieved a rare thing with its huge scope told from a
local point of view. A real "Lord of the Rings" in space, if you like.

Okay, the dialogue was all speeches which sounded like it was written
by an enthusiastic ten year-old at times, but that could be ignored
because of the story - and if all else failed, there were Ron
Thornton's & Mojo's stunning Chris Foss-inspired battley-bits!.

And the show-runner descended from on high and talked to us minions
and made great-sounding noises about the show's integrity and how this
wasn't some Deep Space franchise and how there was a five year story
and nothing else and how important it was that it remain that way and
the like.

The whole package attracted a fair number of like-minded fans who - in
the UK at least - gathered both online and physically on a regular
basis to watch the show, talk about it and generally have a good (and
on most occasions) silly time because of it. Great times - Babblings
rocked!! (and we raised several thousand pounds for charity over the
years too, which is cool).

That's the reality as it was back in the mid/late 1990's. If it sounds
like an unlikely combination of rose-tinted and sepia-toned, then
that's what it was. It was a good time.

But then the real reality started creeping around the edges. The hissy
fits at conventions, the selling-out of the story integrity to make
yet another pilot, or yet another teevee movie, or a spin-off series,
or another book, or a magazine, or a t-shirt, or.....

All of a sudden, in a baseball-bat-in-the-face kind of way we got
glimpses that this precious integrity and high-sounding idealism was
nothing but a thin facade draped around the usual TV-land bullshit.
It, sadly, WAS all about The Franchise. It was all about Making The
Money.

It wasn't just like Start Wreck, it was worse, because we'd been
suckered into believing that this media machine was nothing of the
sort. Suckered into believing that it was something special, something
different. And boy were we suckered.

The "Babylon 5 reality" is, sadly, that it *is* a Deep Space
franchise. A hook from which to dangle in front of the fans any number
of "special opportunities" that always involved the special
opportunity to throw some more money at the big shots.

It wasn't special, it was just the same as all the others. A rip-off
for us gullible types. And I do include myself in that category.

THAT is the Babylon 5 reality that I dislike.

But like anything in life, it's not the destination that's important
but the journey. And the journey through the old, infinitely better,
integrity-based reality to the current disappointing, but with
hindsight tediously inevitable reality was very much worth traveling.

Through Babblings, I have had the honour of meeting some of the most
likeable, most memorable and most trustworthy people I am ever going
to meet in my one-off time on this planet. And that's all down to what
Babylon 5 used to mean, and for that I shall always be *incredibly*
grateful to it.

And for the life lesson about the ease with which idealism can be
corrupted beyond all recognition I shall also be incredibly grateful
to Babylon 5. A lot of my "traditional English cynicism" is in place
today because of Babylon 5, and that has stood me in good stead over
the years, and looks to always do so.

So when you say that I have "decided to move on and haven't decided
which one yet", you're only partially right. Yes, I have moved on, but
I shall never again invest so much of myself in someone else's ego
trip.

Because I know that from now on if I believe there will *always* be
some bastard there taking advantage, taking the money or just plain
taking the piss, then the vast majority of the time I will be right.

Paul (Bitter? No. More experienced? Yup, but still grateful).

On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>"Synthetic Reality"

Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.

Paul.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
> wrote:
>
>> "Synthetic Reality"
>
> Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.
>
> Paul.

I'll reply to both your posts from with this one.

I'll agree with you...up to a point & that is...

How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

If JS has been given (fairly) free reign & remains true to the 
reality/ideals/world of B5 then how can these new stories be a bad 
thing & that cannot be judged until at least 2 DVDs have been 
released.

Why 2??  It is possible for him to write a bad script & he has to be 
allowed to be able to get the stage crew & actors back into the 
melting pot again.

To me B5 was escapism & yet true enough to reality, for instance every 
one of the lead characters was flawed but they worked they way thru 
these flaws to the ultimate good.

Any new material true to the original concept & having the chance of 
filling in details, giving closure to many of the sub plots which were 
left dangling along the way should be given a chance & not aborted 
before they have a chance of coming to fruition.

If after 2 releases it's discovered that it's just a money spinner 
then even I won't give them a second look..

As for lurking...well I keep my head down most of the time as I'm 
relatively house bound (due to circumstances not health) so am not 
able to go to the conventions & other get togethers so am very much 
not part of the in crowd.  As the postings on both the UK B5 
newsgroups are very much an in group thing I don't indulge but when I 
see anti B5 postings in a B5 newsgroups I can't help but wonder why.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 13:34:16 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>If after 2 releases it's discovered that it's just a money spinner 
>then even I won't give them a second look..

Funny, given all of jms's ranting about it not being a franchise, I
found it hard to see them as anything else beginning with his hyping
the project to his fans in the moderated newsgroup. I don't need a
single release to see the writing on the wall.

And he's entitled to milk his little cash cow, as far as I'm
concerned.

But it doesn't mean that I'm going to want to throw money at stuff I
probably won't watch, even if I buy it. There's not much if anything
in this first release that interests me. As much as I was a Sheridan &
Delenn fan, Sheridan without her does nothing for me. I liked him as
much as I did, because Mira Furlan made me believe that Delenn was
head over heels in love with him. As much as I like Tracy as a person,
Lochley was never a character I cared much about. I was also never a
Crusade fan, gave up watching it about halfway through, so Galen isn't
on my "Oh Shiney" list either. 

>As for lurking...well I keep my head down most of the time as I'm 
>relatively house bound (due to circumstances not health) so am not 
>able to go to the conventions & other get togethers so am very much 
>not part of the in crowd.  As the postings on both the UK B5 
>newsgroups are very much an in group thing I don't indulge but when I 
>see anti B5 postings in a B5 newsgroups I can't help but wonder why. 

Some of us dislike what it's become, when they were so many
protestations that it would never become that.

Some of us dislike seeing the original actors blindsided by franchise
questions at conventions by fans who know more about what is going on
than they do. It's like a slap across the face. The original cast
could be the best ambassadors for the franchise whether they are in a
new project or not. Instead it seems to be much more important to whip
the fans into a frothing frenzy about new projects in the universe
than it is to extend a simple courtesy to the actors who helped make
the universe what it was.

-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sun, 27 May 2007 13:34:16 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
>released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
>overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

You can't obviously. All you can do is look at past franchise
spin-offs and extrapolate. Look at the likes of Rangers, River of
Souls, Crusade and most of the books and judge the likelihood of
anything beyond the watchable half of season 5 being anything other
than an attempted money-spinner.

The show's own executive producer is on record as saying that (all
quotes from jmsnews.com):

"This is a five year story. When it's over, it's over."

"the story lasts just five years, then bye-bye."

"What happens at the end of the five year arc? The "Babylon 5" series
ends...if I have anything to say about it (and I do). If something
esle [sic] follows, we'll see what that is, but it won't be the same
series, or the same title, or really the same characters. Barring that
very distant possibility, at the end of the five year arc, I take a
very, very, VERY long nap."

Given the quality of the output outside of the five-year series, it's
kind of a shame the Mogodon wore off so fast...

>Any new material true to the original concept & having the chance of 
>filling in details, giving closure to many of the sub plots which were 
>left dangling along the way should be given a chance & not aborted 
>before they have a chance of coming to fruition.

That's what season 5 should have done instead of pricking about with
the L'Oreal telepaths.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Ian Jones wrote:
> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
> posted in a month.
>
> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>
> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>
> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>
> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>
> Regards
>
> Ian

You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Ian Jones wrote:
>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>> posted in a month.
>>
>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>
>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>
>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>
>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month..... 

I'll be borrowing someone else's.

I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>> posted in a month.
>>>
>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>
>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>
>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>
>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.

>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)



                  All the best,
                        Angus Manwaring.       (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)

I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html

On 23 May 2007 18:56:9 +0000, "Angus Manwaring"
 wrote:

>On 21-May-07 19:49:30, Paul Harper said
>>On Sun, 20 May 2007 20:18:10 +0100, "Kraftee"
>><kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Ian Jones wrote:
>>>> I hope someone still watches this group as I haven't seen anything
>>>> posted in a month.
>>>>
>>>> play.com have the discounted DVD here.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.play.com/DVD/DVD/4-/3350019/Babylon-5-Lost-Tales/Product.html
>>>>
>>>> Release date is 3rd September 2007.
>>>>
>>>> No sign of it on amazon.co.uk yet.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>You're a bit late, ordered mine on the 29th of last month.....
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>Now come on Paul, its not like you to mince your words.  ;)

Sorry, I was in a good mood... :-)

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>
>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.

If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
give a shit rating" on this is about -247.


-- 
Moyra J. Bligh - moyra@zlatna.com
Mira Furlan Announcements - http://mfannounce.blogspot.com/
moderator mira-f mailing list - http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mira-f/
===============================================================
Mira Furlan & Goran Gajic - come join The Celebration
http://www.zlatna.com/gold.html
===============================================================

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh 
wrote:

>On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>wrote:
>
>>I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>
>>I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>
>If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>give a shit rating" on this is about -247.

Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of turgid
dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the likes of
Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio 60, all of
which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything that's come out of
any Synthetic World...

Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
amateurs!

Paul.
-- 
.. Bill Maher: "Tulips aren't flowers, they're gay onions"
.. A .sig is all well and good, but it's no substitute for a personality
.. Is there a moron carrot above?  Have you replied to it?  Are you sure?
.. EMail: Unless invited to, don't; it's likely to be automatically deleted.

Paul Harper wrote:

> Of course, The West Wing has spoiled it for everyone. Compared to
> that, pretty much all dialogue sounds like it's been written by
> amateurs!

I don't know.  For what it is doing the dialogue in the West Wing is 
absolutely brilliantly suited but it is clearly highly unrealistic.  I 
can well imagine other dramas in which WW style language would just seem 
out of place.


> 
> Paul.


-- 
Each day a man watched a donkey walk past a high wood fence with one 
plank removed.  Each day he saw a nose, then the ears, then the neck, 
forequarters, back and finally the tail.  He pondered this for a time 
and eventually declared. “I understand now.  The nose causes the tail”

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>  wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>
>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>
>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>
> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>

??????????
So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
the rest.

They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
so you are synthetic also.

So what is the difference.

I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
it's story & reality...

On Sat, 26 May 2007 23:51:42 +0100, "Kraftee"
<kraftee@b&e-cottee.me.uk> wrote:

>Paul Harper wrote:
>> On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:09:40 -0400, Moyra J. Bligh
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 21 May 2007 20:49:30 +0100, Paul Harper 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'll be borrowing someone else's.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not giving that wanker any more of my money.
>>>
>>> If I can get a used copy I might add it to my collection, but my "I
>>> give a shit rating" on this is about -247.
>>
>> Yeah, know what you mean. Sitting through another two hours of
>> turgid dialogue just doesn't appeal when I've been watching the
>> likes of Heroes, Grey's Anatomy, House, Ugly Betty and even Studio
>> 60, all of which have infinitely superior dialogue to anything
>> that's come out of any Synthetic World...
>
>??????????
>So Heroes is real, Grey's Anatomy House is also real, like wise all 
>the rest.
>
>They are all synthetic, but here again you are not part of my reality 
>so you are synthetic also.
>
>So what is the difference.

Clue: "Synthetic Reality" was capitalised. It's a name.

>I think the difference is that you may have become bored with the 
>Babylon 5 reality & have decided to move on, but haven't settled on 
>which one yet.  So be it but I do find it strange that you are still 
>lurking & posting on a forum apparently dedicatted to the Babylon 5, 
>it's story & reality... 

Well, ignoring for the moment the impossibility of lurking *and*
posting... <grin!>

(This is going to sound like a rant, but trust me when I say that I
have gone way beyond ranting about this, and am at a stage of deep,
resigned sadness about the whole thing, in a "Waiting for God" kind of
way...)

.... you do inadvertently raise an interesting point in your use of the
phrase "Babylon 5 reality".

Babylon 5 reality isn't what it used to be and I miss the old one. I
resent its passing and I resent its corrupting and its cheapening.

Back in the heady "old days" (mid 1990's), the reality of Babylon 5
was that it stood for something. Something quite important really. And
a lot of very likeable and very intelligent people (from my less than
lofty perspective) thought so too.

The stories were thought-provoking, usually, the perspectives and
morality a little right-wing and "American" at times but normally
worthy and it achieved a rare thing with its huge scope told from a
local point of view. A real "Lord of the Rings" in space, if you like.

Okay, the dialogue was all speeches which sounded like it was written
by an enthusiastic ten year-old at times, but that could be ignored
because of the story - and if all else failed, there were Ron
Thornton's & Mojo's stunning Chris Foss-inspired battley-bits!.

And the show-runner descended from on high and talked to us minions
and made great-sounding noises about the show's integrity and how this
wasn't some Deep Space franchise and how there was a five year story
and nothing else and how important it was that it remain that way and
the like.

The whole package attracted a fair number of like-minded fans who - in
the UK at least - gathered both online and physically on a regular
basis to watch the show, talk about it and generally have a good (and
on most occasions) silly time because of it. Great times - Babblings
rocked!! (and we raised several thousand pounds for charity over the
years too, which is cool).

That's the reality as it was back in the mid/late 1990's. If it sounds
like an unlikely combination of rose-tinted and sepia-toned, then
that's what it was. It was a good time.

But then the real reality started creeping around the edges. The hissy
fits at conventions, the selling-out of the story integrity to make
yet another pilot, or yet another teevee movie, or a spin-off series,
or another book, or a magazine, or a t-shirt, or.....

All of a sudden, in a baseball-bat-in-the-face kind of way we got
glimpses that this precious integrity and high-sounding idealism was
nothing but a thin facade draped around the usual TV-land bullshit.
It, sadly, WAS all about The Franchise. It was all about Making The
Money.

It wasn't just like Start Wreck, it was worse, because we'd been
suckered into believing that this media machine was nothing of the
sort. Suckered into believing that it was something special, something
different. And boy were we suckered.

The "Babylon 5 reality" is, sadly, that it *is* a Deep Space
franchise. A hook from which to dangle in front of the fans any number
of "special opportunities" that always involved the special
opportunity to throw some more money at the big shots.

It wasn't special, it was just the same as all the others. A rip-off
for us gullible types. And I do include myself in that category.

THAT is the Babylon 5 reality that I dislike.

But like anything in life, it's not the destination that's important
but the journey. And the journey through the old, infinitely better,
integrity-based reality to the current disappointing, but with
hindsight tediously inevitable reality was very much worth traveling.

Through Babblings, I have had the honour of meeting some of the most
likeable, most memorable and most trustworthy people I am ever going
to meet in my one-off time on this planet. And that's all down to what
Babylon 5 used to mean, and for that I shall always be *incredibly*
grateful to it.

And for the life lesson about the ease with which idealism can be
corrupted beyond all recognition I shall also be incredibly grateful
to Babylon 5. A lot of my "traditional English cynicism" is in place
today because of Babylon 5, and that has stood me in good stead over
the years, and looks to always do so.

So when you say that I have "decided to move on and haven't decided
which one yet", you're only partially right. Yes, I have moved on, but
I shall never again invest so much of myself in someone else's ego
trip.

Because I know that from now on if I believe there will *always* be
some bastard there taking advantage, taking the money or just plain
taking the piss, then the vast majority of the time I will be right.

Paul (Bitter? No. More experienced? Yup, but still grateful).

On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
wrote:

>"Synthetic Reality"

Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.

Paul.

Paul Harper wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2007 06:00:01 +0100, Paul Harper 
> wrote:
>
>> "Synthetic Reality"
>
> Sorry, "Synthetic Worlds". My bad.
>
> Paul.

I'll reply to both your posts from with this one.

I'll agree with you...up to a point & that is...

How  can anybody prejudge a spin off/add on until it has actually been 
released?  True many aren't good but  FEW are & do contribute to the 
overall arc (yes legend of the rangers ws dire)

If JS has been given (