To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.

There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
apply with physical formats.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>
> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
> apply with physical formats.
> --
> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Me too.
I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
something which has artwork, titles & credits.

Does downloaded music have some sort of built in "key" to say that's
it's been obtained legally?  How do you prove that all your downloaded
music is legal otherwise?  Can you download artwork?

No, for now at least, I'll stick to the physical.  Also, once I've
grown out of or got fed up of a CD, I can pass it on to someone else
(friend, car boot sale, charity shop) without worrying about legality.

On 2008-07-03, JohnB  wrote:
> On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> apply with physical formats.
>> --
>> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
>
> Me too.

<AOL>

> I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
> purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
> something which has artwork, titles & credits.

How old are you both? I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?

-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
 wrote:

>To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.

I wonder who will be the first to use 'The Hyett Defence' when taken
to court for music downloading? :-)

On 3 Jul, 11:04, Huge <H...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
> On 2008-07-03, JohnB  wrote:
>
> > On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:
> >> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
> >> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>
> >> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
> >> apply with physical formats.
> >> --
> >> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
>
> > Me too.
>
> <AOL>
>
> > I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
> > purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
> > something which has artwork, titles & credits.
>
> How old are you both? I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?
>
> --
>           "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
>                  and presumptuous desire for a second one."
>                [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

Can't speak for Paul, but I'd certainly have to hold my hand up to
"old fogey" - at least according to the definition I had when I was
young, and probably the definition that most of the "young" have these
days.  I keep getting told that 50 is the new 40 and that 60 is the
new 50 but I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days.  Mind you,
I'm not confined to armchair and slippers just yet :-)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message
news:yTVVOAEDHHbIFwVK@blueyonder.co.uk...
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>
> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
> apply with physical formats.
> -- 
> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

As long as you can hear it when you want and ideally where you want, then
that nicely establishes ownership. I got rid of a few hundred recently
purely because having a large collection of discs is unwieldy and takes up
too much space.  I'm much more open to buying high-quality mp3s (without
DRM) but I'll still buy CDs for the hard to get stuff or for my favourite
bands.

Having said all that I do miss the pleasures of vinyl a little.  The artwork
and design meant you were often buying something that felt like it had value
beyond the music.  CDs in comparison always felt cheap and tatty.  I guess
digital formats work best in the ether rather than as a physical property.

In article <018b08c5-8f0a-4a37-9620-
56cfb1c7ebeb@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, johnbooth@tinyworld.co.uk 
says...
> I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days. 

Retirement age!

4 weeks to go...

-- 
Snob? Were I a snob, I wouldn't be talking to you.

Paul Hyett wrote:
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> 
> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
> apply with physical formats.

How did you feel when you taped LP's ?

In uk.misc,  (bof) wrote in <R$FFH+I2cLbIFwzZ@hotmail.com>::

>In message , Marc Wilson 
> writes
>>In uk.misc,  (bof) wrote in <I9cjX8HS1KbIFwA$@hotmail.com>::
>>
>>>In message , Marc Wilson
>>> writes
>>>>In uk.misc,  (JohnB) wrote in
>>>>::
>>>
>>>>>Does downloaded music have some sort of built in "key" to say that's
>>>>>it's been obtained legally?
>>>>
>>>>Various sites have music with and without DRM.  I'd never buy a DRM
>>>>copy, as you don't know how they're going to lock you in.  Some versions
>>>>restrict playback to a single machine- if that machine dies, you are (at
>>>>best) seriously inconvenienced.
>>>
>>>I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,
>>>but the first thing I do is make an unprotected copy, then use that.
>>
>>So, you buy DRM and hack it?
>
>yes


Oooh.  Any preferred tools?
-- 
Marc

Giving power and money to government is like giving whiskey and car-keys to teenage boys.  PJ O'Rourke

In message , Marc Wilson 
 writes

>Oooh.  Any preferred tools?

I record in real time to MP3 using Audacity (freeware), but there's now 
a tool from (IIRC) the stable of John the Ripper, that does iTunes 
direct and faster than real time, not tried it, but must get a copy, 
anyone got an URL?

-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

In article <g4i87r$31f$13@anubis.demon.co.uk>, Huge 
<Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes
>On 2008-07-03, JohnB  wrote:
>> On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:
>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>
>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>>> apply with physical formats.
>>> --
>>> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
>>
>> Me too.
>
><AOL>
>
>> I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
>> purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
>> something which has artwork, titles & credits.
>
>How old are you both? I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?
>

Could  be, I'm 43 and feel exactly the same way.

Even more so when it comes to films and stuff. Which is why I can't 
understand why a lot of people seem to think downloads is the way of the 
future. I suppose with music, it's only a few mb to download, a decent 
quality movie is several GBs.

I like to have bookcases full or DVD/CDs :-)

As to DRM, why bother? Has it ever actually stopped anything from being 
freely available anyway?
-- 
Sean Black

On 2008-07-03, Dave Budd  wrote:
> In article <018b08c5-8f0a-4a37-9620-
> 56cfb1c7ebeb@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, johnbooth@tinyworld.co.uk 
> says...
>> I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days. 
>
> Retirement age!

Shut it, grandpa.     :o(


-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

Paul Hyett  wrote:

> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> 
> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
> apply with physical formats.

My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
(and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
format.

As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
would not appear on a CD.

bof  wrote:

> I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,

Umm bth DRM and non-DRM are the same price.

bof  wrote:

> In message , Marc Wilson 
>  writes
> 
> >Oooh.  Any preferred tools?
> 
> I record in real time to MP3 using Audacity (freeware), but there's now
> a tool from (IIRC) the stable of John the Ripper, that does iTunes 
> direct and faster than real time, not tried it, but must get a copy, 
> anyone got an URL?

One of the most bizarre techniques for removing DRM is to use Apple's
own software. iMovie HD shipped with Tiger allows the import of DRM'd
files from iTunes and then saving them out as vanilla mp4.

"Sofa - Spud"  wrote in message 
news:g4igdt$qhi$4@aioe.org...
> Paul Hyett wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>> apply with physical formats.
>
> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?

Or taped off the radio, that was illegal too but we all did it
didn't we, right kids?

Coincidentally, I've been hving a bit of a clear out today and have
found my old cassette 'taped off the radio' collection which has
just gone straight in the bin.
I mean I am never *ever* going to listen to any of it ever again so
what's the point, you can't keep everything, not even for nostaligic 
reasons!
-- 
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

In article <g4ijhj$6qp$7@anubis.demon.co.uk>, Huge@nowhere.much.invalid 
says...
> On 2008-07-03, Dave Budd  wrote:
> > In article <018b08c5-8f0a-4a37-9620-
> > 56cfb1c7ebeb@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, johnbooth@tinyworld.co.uk 
> > says...
> >> I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days. 
> >
> > Retirement age!
> 
> Shut it, grandpa.     :o(
> 
Oh come on, I bet you could afford to just walk if the fancy took you.
You're only staying coz they're giving you even MORE filthy lucre.
-- 
Snob? Were I a snob, I wouldn't be talking to you.

"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:1iji9v4.rbxyrerdx4ioN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> Paul Hyett  wrote:
>
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> apply with physical formats.
>
> My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
> compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
> (and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
> original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
> format.
>
> As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
> now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
> would not appear on a CD.

To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:27:08 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
wrote:

>Paul Hyett  wrote:
>
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>> 
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>> apply with physical formats.
>
>My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
>compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
>(and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
>original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
>format.

Yet some of the best music of my life was listened to on a tiny mono
transistor radio with a single earpiece.

In message <1ijia1i.1uh5suysqj3b4N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth 
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>bof  wrote:
>
>> I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,
>
>Umm bth DRM and non-DRM are the same price.

Must've changed then, it was 79p for DRM and 99p for non DRM last time I 
bought iMusic.


-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

Col wrote:
> "Sofa - Spud"  wrote in message 
> news:g4igdt$qhi$4@aioe.org...
>> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>
>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>>> apply with physical formats.
>> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?
> 
> Or taped off the radio, that was illegal too but we all did it
> didn't we, right kids?
> 
> Coincidentally, I've been hving a bit of a clear out today and have
> found my old cassette 'taped off the radio' collection which has
> just gone straight in the bin.
> I mean I am never *ever* going to listen to any of it ever again so
> what's the point, you can't keep everything, not even for nostaligic 
> reasons!

A mistake if I may say so. I had lots of tapes - my van had a cassette 
so it was stil viable for me. Some years ago in went the CD then it was 
burnt discs. Then like you I was having a clear out an all those 
compilation tapes done 25+ yrs ago - what about those? Old tape deck 
with connecting wire into the Mic in socket and record them as MP3 and 
burn .

Nostalgia is good

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 13:21:26 +0100, Sean Black wrote:

> I like to have bookcases full of DVD/CDs :-)

http://pixdaus.com/single.php?id=35568


-- 
A gentleman never offends anyone unintentionally.

Mike Plowman  wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:27:08 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
> wrote:
> 
> >Paul Hyett  wrote:
> >
> >> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
> >> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> >> 
> >> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
> >> apply with physical formats.
> >
> >My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
> >compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
> >(and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
> >original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
> >format.
> 
> Yet some of the best music of my life was listened to on a tiny mono
> transistor radio with a single earpiece.

Jings then your taste in music hasn't matured much, has it grandad?

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 13:24:17 +0100, Sofa - Spud wrote:

> Paul Hyett wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>> 
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>> apply with physical formats.
> 
> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?

To what?


-- 
Everything works by magick; science represents a small domain
of magick where coincidences have a relatively high probability 
of occurrence.

In uk.misc,  (BoredOfThem) wrote in
<3E4bk.20071$E41.19738@text.news.virginmedia.com>::

>
>"Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
>news:1iji9v4.rbxyrerdx4ioN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
>> Paul Hyett  wrote:
>>
>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>
>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>>> apply with physical formats.
>>
>> My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
>> compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
>> (and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
>> original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
>> format.
>>
>> As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
>> now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
>> would not appear on a CD.
>
>To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
>Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
>and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.

Depends what it's for, really.  Music for the car, MP3 is adequate: it's
such a shit acoustic environment anyway, and being able to get a whole
holiday's worth of music on one disk is a bonus.

To play on a portable?  Whatever.

For in the house? LP or CD, in that order of preference, every time.
-- 
Marc

It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both incisive  and probing when every twelve 
minutes one is interrupted by twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper."  (Rod Serling)

bof  wrote:

> In message <1ijia1i.1uh5suysqj3b4N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
> >bof  wrote:
> >
> >> I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,
> >
> >Umm bth DRM and non-DRM are the same price.
> 
> Must've changed then, it was 79p for DRM and 99p for non DRM last time I
> bought iMusic.

They're all 79p and have been for some time. What does piss me off is
that when CDs are upgrade to iTunes Plus that few of them offer an
upgrade to anyone who bought them as DRMed music.

I mentioned it to Apple and they sent me a voucher for five free tracks
as a consolation prize. Not a great help considering that I have around
a dozen albums that have iTP versions available that weren't there when
I bought them. And yes, given a choice I'd have bought the CDs rather
than the tracks but at the time I bought them the CDs simply weren't
easily available to me, not even on-line.

It's iRritating.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 12:56:58 +0100, Marc Wilson wrote:

> Oooh.  Any preferred tools?

For the video side of things, this site is superb:

http://www.videohelp.com/


-- 
Opium, fireworks, vodka and meat
Scoot over and save me a seat

In message <1ijigxr.8hdel93azus2N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth 
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>bof  wrote:
>
>> In message <1ijia1i.1uh5suysqj3b4N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
>> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>> >bof  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,
>> >
>> >Umm bth DRM and non-DRM are the same price.
>>
>> Must've changed then, it was 79p for DRM and 99p for non DRM last time I
>> bought iMusic.
>
>They're all 79p and have been for some time.

ISTR it was about a year ago, so if they're the same price why would 
anyone buy DRMed versions, or are the non DRM hobbled in some other way?


-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

On 2008-07-03, Dave Budd  wrote:
> In article <g4ijhj$6qp$7@anubis.demon.co.uk>, Huge@nowhere.much.invalid 
> says...
>> On 2008-07-03, Dave Budd  wrote:
>> > In article <018b08c5-8f0a-4a37-9620-
>> > 56cfb1c7ebeb@z66g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, johnbooth@tinyworld.co.uk 
>> > says...
>> >> I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days. 
>> >
>> > Retirement age!
>> 
>> Shut it, grandpa.     :o(
>> 
> Oh come on, I bet you could afford to just walk if the fancy took you.

Kinda. We'd have to move and it's not a good time.

> You're only staying coz they're giving you even MORE filthy lucre.

That and spinelessness.

-- 
          "Be thankful that you have a life, and forsake your vain
                 and presumptuous desire for a second one."
               [email me at huge {at} huge (dot) org <dot> uk]

"Sofa - Spud"  wrote in message 
news:g4isp3$kms$1@aioe.org...
> Col wrote:
>> "Sofa - Spud"  wrote in message 
>> news:g4igdt$qhi$4@aioe.org...
>>> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>>
>>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>>>> apply with physical formats.
>>> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?
>>
>> Or taped off the radio, that was illegal too but we all did it
>> didn't we, right kids?
>>
>> Coincidentally, I've been hving a bit of a clear out today and have
>> found my old cassette 'taped off the radio' collection which has
>> just gone straight in the bin.
>> I mean I am never *ever* going to listen to any of it ever again so
>> what's the point, you can't keep everything, not even for nostaligic 
>> reasons!
>
> A mistake if I may say so. I had lots of tapes - my van had a cassette so 
> it was stil viable for me. Some years ago in went the CD then it was burnt 
> discs. Then like you I was having a clear out an all those compilation 
> tapes done 25+ yrs ago - what about those? Old tape deck with connecting 
> wire into the Mic in socket and record them as MP3 and burn .

But I've not listened to them for years.
Anything I *really* want I can get from iTunes for 79p.
Beyond that, pretty much anything I might casually want to listen to I
can get on YouTube, and I get the video too!

Beyond *that* I'm clearly not bothered so why keep 'em?

Besides a fair bit of the stuff on the tapes I've subsequently bought
on CD maimly via 'best of' compilations and the 'Now' series CDs
that did 'best of' years from the 80s.
-- 
Col

Steal a spaceship and head for the sun,
Shoot the stars with a lemonade ray gun.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 17:51:08 +0100, Col wrote:

<snip>

YouTube has got an amazing range of stuff on it. Currently playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBRD2b7ZZ2M

OK - it's not rare, or anything, but it's great track, and superb photo.


-- 
I ain't got time for yesterday's news
Don't shoot me up with your bullshit blues

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
 wrote:

>To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>
>There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>apply with physical formats.
>-- 

Plus mp3s sound appaling if you try and listen to them on  Hi-Fi
equipment that IS actually Hi-Fi equipment

Col wrote:
> "Sofa - Spud"  wrote in message 
> news:g4igdt$qhi$4@aioe.org...
>> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>
>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>>> apply with physical formats.
>> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?
> 
> Or taped off the radio, that was illegal too but we all did it
> didn't we, right kids?

I don't think it was illegal then.  Not if you're my age.  Before the 
1988 Act, it was a civil thing.

> Coincidentally, I've been hving a bit of a clear out today and have
> found my old cassette 'taped off the radio' collection which has
> just gone straight in the bin.
> I mean I am never *ever* going to listen to any of it ever again so
> what's the point, you can't keep everything, not even for nostaligic 
> reasons!

That's the advantage of MP3s - you could have ripped and MP3d those 
tapes and played them back in 30 years time, and they'd take up no 
physical space in the meantime.

Steve Firth wrote:
> Paul Hyett  wrote:
> 
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>> apply with physical formats.
> 
> My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
> compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
> (and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
> original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
> format.


That is your objection to lossily compressed downloads.  What's your 
objection to these sorts of downloads:

http://www.avantgardeproject.org/

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:06:45 GMT, Shaun wrote:

> Plus mp3s sound appaling if you try and listen to them on  Hi-Fi
> equipment that IS actually Hi-Fi equipment

Two words:

"Cost benefit analysis".


-- 
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, 
but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.

bof  wrote:

> In message <1ijigxr.8hdel93azus2N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth 
> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
> >bof  wrote:
> >
> >> In message <1ijia1i.1uh5suysqj3b4N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> >> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
> >> >bof  wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I've bought DRMed stuff, it annoys me you have to pay more for non-DRM,
> >> >
> >> >Umm bth DRM and non-DRM are the same price.
> >>
> >> Must've changed then, it was 79p for DRM and 99p for non DRM last time I
> >> bought iMusic.
> >
> >They're all 79p and have been for some time.
> 
> ISTR it was about a year ago, so if they're the same price why would 
> anyone buy DRMed versions, or are the non DRM hobbled in some other way?

They aren't offered in parallel versions. Some labels supply DRM only
others supply non DRM.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:10:16 +0100, Poldie wrote:

<snip>

> That is your objection to lossily compressed downloads.  What's your 
> objection to these sorts of downloads:
> 
> http://www.avantgardeproject.org/

Woah! Currently getting some Morton Subotnik (no that's not a euphemism).
Nice site. Seriously.


-- 
Damn you and your potpourri.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 17:06:45 GMT, shaun.jameson.spam@ntlwolrd.com
(Shaun) wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
> wrote:
>
>>To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>>unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>>There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>>apply with physical formats.
>>-- 
>
>Plus mp3s sound appaling if you try and listen to them on  Hi-Fi
>equipment that IS actually Hi-Fi equipment

Do you get woofers with that?

-- 
TF

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:15:55 +0100, Trash Folder wrote:

> Do you get woofers with that?

"Mu".


-- 
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable 
that we have to alter it every six months.

"Poldie" <_.@._> wrote in message

> That's the advantage of MP3s - you could have ripped and MP3d those tapes 
> and played them back in 30 years time, and they'd take up no physical 
> space in the meantime.

If MPEG is still around in 30 years' time I'll eat my hat if somebody is 
kind enough to mash it for me first.

"Hot Badger Deluxe"  wrote

> Two words:
>
> "Cost benefit analysis".

<'kin laffed!>

tosser!

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 16:58:27 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
wrote:

>Mike Plowman  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 14:27:08 +0100, %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >Paul Hyett  wrote:
>> >
>> >> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> >> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>> >> 
>> >> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> >> apply with physical formats.
>> >
>> >My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
>> >compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
>> >(and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
>> >original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
>> >format.
>> 
>> Yet some of the best music of my life was listened to on a tiny mono
>> transistor radio with a single earpiece.
>
>Jings then your taste in music hasn't matured much, has it grandad?

You miss the point, Just cos we had lo-fi kit back in the early 70's
didn't make the music any less exciting or fun.

I detest twats who wibble on about sound quality like it's the be all
and all 'Oh I have to stick these wafers under my speakers and draw
round the edhee of my CDs with tis pen before they will sound any
good.'' Bollocks. A good tune is a good tune.

Stick Little Richard's Tutti Fritti on an old Dansette and stick
Coldplay on your most expensive hi-fi. I know which one will have
people rocking.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 18:25:27 +0100, Number Two wrote:

<sneeeep>

> tosser!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-0c4lgvpb4


-- 
Most of the trouble in this world has been caused
by folks who can't mind their own business.

Poldie <_.@._> wrote:

> What's your objection to these sorts of downloads:

That I'd rather have root canal work without anaesthetic than listen to
Stockhausen and his imitators?

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 02:55:24, JohnB  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.misc :

>On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> apply with physical formats.
>> --
>> Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett
>
>Me too.
>I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
>purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
>something which has artwork, titles & credits.
>
>Does downloaded music have some sort of built in "key" to say that's
>it's been obtained legally?

I think that's all part of the DRM thing.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 10:04:43, Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote 
in uk.media.tv.misc :

>On 2008-07-03, JohnB  wrote:
>> On 3 Jul, 10:44, Paul Hyett  wrote:

>>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>>
>>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>>> apply with physical formats.
>>
>> Me too.
>
><AOL>

Hi Hugh!

BTW, I'm not sure what AOL means in this context.
>
>> I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
>> purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
>> something which has artwork, titles & credits.
>
>How old are you both?

You've known me on Usenet for a long time, can't you take a guess? :)

>I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?
>
Does 'fogey-hood' start at 40-ish, these days? :)
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 04:10:00, JohnB  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.misc :

>On 3 Jul, 11:04, Huge <H...@nowhere.much.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> > I've only ever downloaded long-out-of-copyright stuff for "educational
>> > purposes".  I've never even considered it otherwise.  I like to hold
>> > something which has artwork, titles & credits.
>>
>> How old are you both? I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?
>
>Can't speak for Paul, but I'd certainly have to hold my hand up to
>"old fogey" - at least according to the definition I had when I was
>young, and probably the definition that most of the "young" have these
>days.  I keep getting told that 50 is the new 40 and that 60 is the
>new 50 but I don't know what 54 is regarded as these days.  Mind you,
>I'm not confined to armchair and slippers just yet :-)

BTW, why is 50 considered middle-aged, when very few people live to be 
100... :)
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 13:21:26, Sean Black  
wrote in uk.media.tv.misc :

>In article <g4i87r$31f$13@anubis.demon.co.uk>, Huge 
><Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> writes
>>
>>How old are you both? I wonder if this is an "old fogey" thing?
>>
>Could  be, I'm 43 and feel exactly the same way.

Just a month or so behind you...
>
>Even more so when it comes to films and stuff. Which is why I can't 
>understand why a lot of people seem to think downloads is the way of 
>the future. I suppose with music, it's only a few mb to download, a 
>decent quality movie is several GBs.

I hadn't even thought about movies - I'm still getting used to DVD's. :)
>
>I like to have bookcases full or DVD/CDs :-)
>
>As to DRM, why bother? Has it ever actually stopped anything from being 
>freely available anyway?

Indeed.

ISTM that DRM might well discourage some people from obtaining music 
legally.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 12:13:01, Deano  wrote in 
uk.media.tv.misc :
>
>"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message
>news:yTVVOAEDHHbIFwVK@blueyonder.co.uk...

>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> apply with physical formats.
>
>As long as you can hear it when you want and ideally where you want, then
>that nicely establishes ownership. I got rid of a few hundred recently
>purely because having a large collection of discs is unwieldy and takes up
>too much space.  I'm much more open to buying high-quality mp3s (without
>DRM) but I'll still buy CDs for the hard to get stuff or for my favourite
>bands.

By the way, did anything come of the gov'ts suggestion for a *fair use* 
clause IRO home-ripping of CD's?
>
>Having said all that I do miss the pleasures of vinyl a little.  The artwork
>and design meant you were often buying something that felt like it had value
>beyond the music.  CDs in comparison always felt cheap and tatty.

I remember this sort of argument from back in the 80's, but the superior 
sound quality of CD's won me over. That's not to say I don't still have 
lots of vinyl records though.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 11:20:27, Mike Plowman  
wrote in uk.media.tv.misc :

>On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
> wrote:
>
>>To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>>unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>
>I wonder who will be the first to use 'The Hyett Defence' when taken
>to court for music downloading? :-)

I never suggested I downloaded music *illegally*.

I only buy new tracks via download that have no physical release, or old 
ones that can no longer be found on physical format.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 13:24:17, Sofa - Spud  
wrote in uk.media.tv.misc :

>Paul Hyett wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>>unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>  There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>>apply with physical formats.
>
>How did you feel when you taped LP's ?

Who, me? :)

Seriously though, just like ripping CD's, you've already paid for the 
music, so IMO copying LP's to tape was just putting it into a format 
convenient for a Walkman.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 14:30:48, Col  wrote in 
uk.media.tv.misc :
>>
>> How did you feel when you taped LP's ?
>
>Or taped off the radio, that was illegal too but we all did it
>didn't we, right kids?
>
>Coincidentally, I've been hving a bit of a clear out today and have
>found my old cassette 'taped off the radio' collection which has
>just gone straight in the bin.

I dare say I've got some tapes like that, but WTF is on them, I have no 
idea now!
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 14:27:08, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote 
in uk.media.tv.misc :

>Paul Hyett  wrote:
>
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
>> apply with physical formats.
>
>My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
>compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
>(and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
>original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
>format.

To my ears, the difference between 256KB/s & 96KB/s is minimal, so I use 
the latter to fit more on my MP3 player.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 13:39:11, BoredOfThem  wrote in 
uk.media.tv.misc :

>> As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
>> now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
>> would not appear on a CD.
>
>To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
>Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
>and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.

Yes, turntables being a bit awkward to listen to on the way to work... 
:)
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:14:35 GMT, Paul Hyett wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 13:39:11, BoredOfThem  wrote in 
> uk.media.tv.misc :
> 
>>> As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
>>> now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
>>> would not appear on a CD.
>>
>>To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
>>Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
>>and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.
> 
> Yes, turntables being a bit awkward to listen to on the way to work... 
> :)

I have the horrible feeling that someone produced an In-Car turntable...


-- 
It's a higher power trying to tell me through
bunnies that we're all going to die.

Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:10:16 +0100, Poldie wrote:
> 
> <snip>
> 
>> That is your objection to lossily compressed downloads.  What's your 
>> objection to these sorts of downloads:
>>
>> http://www.avantgardeproject.org/
> 
> Woah! Currently getting some Morton Subotnik (no that's not a euphemism).
> Nice site. Seriously.

Yeah.   (Checkout the Stockhausen Klavierstuck by the Kontarskys).
MP3s linked to if you don't have an MP3 player which handles Flacs.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:14:34 GMT, Paul Hyett 
wrote:

>
>BTW, why is 50 considered middle-aged, when very few people live to be 
>100... :)

50 isn't middle-aged any more.
I'm considered 'still young', at 55.

Unless people are just being crawlers, though I can't think what they expect
to gain from it. . .
 
-- 
JAF anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
     Sapere Aude

Number Two wrote:
> "Poldie" <_.@._> wrote in message
> 
>> That's the advantage of MP3s - you could have ripped and MP3d those tapes 
>> and played them back in 30 years time, and they'd take up no physical 
>> space in the meantime.
> 
> If MPEG is still around in 30 years' time I'll eat my hat if somebody is 
> kind enough to mash it for me first.

People often mention formats going obsolete, but they're confusing 
physical and logical formats.  There are emulators of all older 
computers, so as long as the physical device (zip drive, 5.25 inch 
floppy etc) is readable, the data is.  There'll always be mp3 players, 
jpg viewers etc because there'll always be people out there with copies 
of windows 98, linux etc, and the mp3s will always be physically 
storable on new magnetic/optical drives, and you'll always be able to 
migrate them onto newer formats as they become available.

"Poldie" <_.@._> wrote in message

>> If MPEG is still around in 30 years' time I'll eat my hat if somebody is 
>> kind enough to mash it for me first.
>
> People often mention formats going obsolete, but they're confusing 
> physical and logical formats.

I'm not, but I take your point.

> There are emulators of all older computers, so as long as the physical 
> device (zip drive, 5.25 inch floppy etc) is readable, the data is. 
> There'll always be mp3 players, jpg viewers etc because there'll always be 
> people out there with copies of windows 98, linux etc, and the mp3s will 
> always be physically storable on new magnetic/optical drives, and you'll 
> always be able to migrate them onto newer formats as they become 
> available.

We'll see.

Hopefully.

Mike Plowman  wrote:

> Stick Little Richard's Tutti Fritti on an old Dansette and stick

.. both into a bin bag.

Sorry I really don't do that skiffle stuff.

As to Coldplay, no I don't like them much either. If I want to feel
miserable I'll read the paper.

In <486d0ad1$0$26075$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, "Number Two"
 wrote:

>
>"Poldie" <_.@._> wrote in message
>
>> That's the advantage of MP3s - you could have ripped and MP3d those tapes 
>> and played them back in 30 years time, and they'd take up no physical 
>> space in the meantime.
>
>If MPEG is still around in 30 years' time I'll eat my hat if somebody is 
>kind enough to mash it for me first.

If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by computers
of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:23:18 +0100, Poldie wrote:

> Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:10:16 +0100, Poldie wrote:
>> 
>> <snip>
>> 
>>> That is your objection to lossily compressed downloads.  What's your 
>>> objection to these sorts of downloads:
>>>
>>> http://www.avantgardeproject.org/
>> 
>> Woah! Currently getting some Morton Subotnik (no that's not a euphemism).
>> Nice site. Seriously.
> 
> Yeah.   (Checkout the Stockhausen Klavierstuck by the Kontarskys).
> MP3s linked to if you don't have an MP3 player which handles Flacs.

I've got all the Klavierstuck on CD. OK, that sounds smug... rewind. Having
recently had some major hardware failures (while I was in fucking
hospital), I _need_ La Monte Young's "The Second Dream of The High-Tension
Line Stepdown Transformer"...

Fucking Hell!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZzz58VUaw

The album is currently going for almost USD170 on Amazon!

Second thought - did I make a CD copy...


-- 
The nice thing about standards is that there 
are so many of them to choose from.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

<snip>

> If I want to feel miserable

You'll pop round to Huge's?

OK, that's an image that I didn't want.


-- 
Reality is a narrow little house which becomes a
prison to those who can't get out of it.

"Mike Henry" <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote

>>If MPEG is still around in 30 years' time I'll eat my hat if somebody is
>>kind enough to mash it for me first.
>
> If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
> then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
> files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by computers
> of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
> unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.

I'm suggesting that the format will become redundant.

If I knew what was going to replace it then I wouldn't be sat here wasting 
my time arguing with you lot.

Paul Hyett  wrote:

> turntables being a bit awkward to listen to on the way to work... 

Well you might think so, but one of my dad's cars could play a 45rpm
single in a slot-loading dashboard player. On a reasonably bumpy road it
would trash both the stylus and the record.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:43:33 +0100, Mike Henry wrote:

> If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
> then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
> files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by computers
> of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
> unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.

It has precedent:

http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.56.html#subj1

-- 
One way ticket from Mornington Crescent to Tannhauser Gate please.

In <%m9bk.20242$E41.8584@text.news.virginmedia.com>, Fevric J Glandules
<fevric@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:43:33 +0100, Mike Henry wrote:
>
>> If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
>> then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
>> files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by computers
>> of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
>> unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.
>
>It has precedent:
>
>http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.56.html#subj1

Not for mp3 files where the file format is known!

"Mike Henry" <{$mrtickle$}@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote

>>> If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
>>> then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
>>> files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by 
>>> computers
>>> of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
>>> unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.
>>
>>It has precedent:
>>
>>http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.56.html#subj1
>
> Not for mp3 files where the file format is known!

One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treadle.

On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 20:40:33 +0100, Number Two wrote:

<snip>

> One of the cross beams has gone out askew on the treadle.

You just need to reset the goat.


-- 
Get ready for the festival
For the festival is only once a year

In article , 
pah@nojunkmailplease.co.uk says...
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> 

Likewise. I like having the artefact. I like having sleeve notes. 
Generally I prefer to spend a reasonable amount of time with an album, so 
that I can get inside the musicians' heads a bit, so I'm not interested 
in getting a track at a time or jumping around from place to place on a 
playlist. I don't often buy greatest hits albums, let alone compilations.

OTOH it's cheaper to put tracks on the web for download rather than 
paying to manufacture CDs, so it opens up the market for more artists. So 
I guess I have to accept that I'm just a dinosaur.

-- 
eric
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

In article , 
shaun.jameson.spam@ntlwolrd.com says...
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
>  wrote:
> 
> >To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> >unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> >
> >There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
> >apply with physical formats.
> 
> Plus mp3s sound appaling if you try and listen to them on  Hi-Fi
> equipment that IS actually Hi-Fi equipment
> 

Or with ears, like I normally do.

-- 
eric
"live fast, die only if strictly necessary"

Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:23:18 +0100, Poldie wrote:
> 
>> Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
>>> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:10:16 +0100, Poldie wrote:
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>> That is your objection to lossily compressed downloads.  What's your 
>>>> objection to these sorts of downloads:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.avantgardeproject.org/
>>> Woah! Currently getting some Morton Subotnik (no that's not a euphemism).
>>> Nice site. Seriously.
>> Yeah.   (Checkout the Stockhausen Klavierstuck by the Kontarskys).
>> MP3s linked to if you don't have an MP3 player which handles Flacs.
> 
> I've got all the Klavierstuck on CD. OK, that sounds smug... rewind.

Even the very recently released ones?   To be honest, the first 11 are 
probably the better ones.  XV, written towards the end of his life, was 
written for and performed on a synth using the typically dreadful cheesy 
keyboard sounds he inexplicably started to use.  I'll have to look out 
for a piano version sometime.

> Having
> recently had some major hardware failures (while I was in fucking
> hospital), I _need_ La Monte Young's "The Second Dream of The High-Tension
> Line Stepdown Transformer"...
> 
> Fucking Hell!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfZzz58VUaw
> 
> The album is currently going for almost USD170 on Amazon!
> 
> Second thought - did I make a CD copy...

I've seen his "well-tuned piano" on offer for something like $900 on 
Amazon.com fairly recently, so that's something of a bargain!

fOn Thu, 3 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0100, Steve Firth wrote:

>Mike Plowman  wrote:
>
>> Stick Little Richard's Tutti Fritti on an old Dansette and stick
>
>.. both into a bin bag.
>
>Sorry I really don't do that skiffle stuff.
>
>As to Coldplay, no I don't like them much either. If I want to feel
>miserable...

...you'll listen to Morrissey

-- 

Peter

I'm an alien
email: groups at asylum dot nildram dot co dot uk
Predicting wet flurries tonight.
- Greg Goss

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:23:40 +0100, Peter Ward wrote:

> ...you'll listen to Morrissey

Did you hear Jeremy Hardy amazingly singing in tune to Heaven Know's I'm
Miserable Now on ISIHAC?

Er...
that's it


-- 
Hips
Tits
Lips
Power

Fevric J Glandules wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:43:33 +0100, Mike Henry wrote:
> 
>> If you keep the files, transferring to new media as they are invented,
>> then of course they will still "be around". Or are you saying that mp3
>> files will suddenly become impossible to decode and play back by computers
>> of the future? Programmers will forget the file format or somehow be
>> unable to write software? What a strange thing to say.
> 
> It has precedent:
> 
> http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/Risks/21.56.html#subj1

Something of an argument for open standards, that is...

Paul Hyett wrote:
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> 
> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
> apply with physical formats.

I prefer CDs because

1) The quality is superior, and I spend too much on hi-fi equipment to 
have the gall to listen to MP3s on it.

2) No DRM

3) Easily rippable to other formats

4) Very low chance of data corruption, I don't fancy dying hard drives 
or the data layer peeling off CDRs. Of course, you have to handle CDs 
well but that's not difficult

5) I like the artwork

6) Hi-fi seperate MP3 players are hard to come by

And I'm not what you'd call an old fogey.

Hot Badger Deluxe wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 18:14:35 GMT, Paul Hyett wrote:
> 
>> On Thu, 3 Jul 2008 at 13:39:11, BoredOfThem  wrote in 
>> uk.media.tv.misc :
>>
>>>> As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
>>>> now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
>>>> would not appear on a CD.
>>> To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
>>> Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
>>> and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.
>> Yes, turntables being a bit awkward to listen to on the way to work... 
>> :)
> 
> I have the horrible feeling that someone produced an In-Car turntable...

I'm sure with a few more minutes googling I'd be able to prove that I'm 
not imagining the portable vinyl player I'm sure I saw photos of in the 
1990's. It was a piece of kit with a slot for loading the record, which 
span roughly in the centre.

In article , pah@nojunkmailplease.co.uk 
says...
> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.

I'm not arsed. It's easier to play an MP3 out of the ones I've put on my PC 
than dig out a CD.

> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
> apply with physical formats.

Then don't buy DRM-encrusted downloads and get them from mininova instead.

The only people over 35 with a conscience are women who aren't sure if they 
look big in that.
-- 

Dom Robinson	  Gamertag: DVDfever      email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor)
/* 1174 DVDs, 375 games, 451 CDs, 114 cinema films, 54 concerts, music & news
/* gta 4, waz, sweeney todd, interstate 60, indiana jones, avp2, god of war
             New music charts - http://dvdfever.co.uk/music.shtml
               Youtube - http://uk.youtube.com/user/DieHardDom

Anton Gÿsen wrote:
> Paul Hyett wrote:
>> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
>> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
>>
>> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't 
>> apply with physical formats.
> 
> I prefer CDs because
> 
> 1) The quality is superior, and I spend too much on hi-fi equipment to 
> have the gall to listen to MP3s on it.

But digital file formats can exceed the quality offered by CD (higher 
bit rate, more bits per sample).

> 2) No DRM

DRM is becoming less popular anyway, plus CDs do support a shitty, 
primitive DRM, although it's rarely used.

> 3) Easily rippable to other formats

Ripping them simply turns them into file formats which you could have 
downloaded in the first place (ie APE, Flac).

> 4) Very low chance of data corruption, I don't fancy dying hard drives 
> or the data layer peeling off CDRs. Of course, you have to handle CDs 
> well but that's not difficult

You can backup files onto CD-Rs, DVDs etc.

> 5) I like the artwork

Never been interested in all that.

> 6) Hi-fi seperate MP3 players are hard to come by

If you were really bothered and had a proper high fi you could hook up a 
pc/laptop with a decent sound card into your hifi though.

In article , 
mike.plowman@mydomain.net says...
> On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 09:44:01 GMT, Paul Hyett
>  wrote:
> 
> >To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours, 
> >unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> 
> I wonder who will be the first to use 'The Hyett Defence' when taken
> to court for music downloading? :-)
> 
> 
It made me laugh about Virginmedia apparently being encouraged to kick off 
users who download illegally as (a) the practice of 'packet sniffing' is time-
consuming and expensive, and (b) the end result is that you're giving away 
paying customers to the competition. 
-- 

Dom Robinson	  Gamertag: DVDfever      email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor)
/* 1174 DVDs, 375 games, 451 CDs, 114 cinema films, 54 concerts, music & news
/* gta 4, waz, sweeney todd, interstate 60, indiana jones, avp2, god of war
             New music charts - http://dvdfever.co.uk/music.shtml
               Youtube - http://uk.youtube.com/user/DieHardDom

Steve Firth wrote:
> Poldie <_.@._> wrote:
> 
>> What's your objection to these sorts of downloads:
> 
> That I'd rather have root canal work without anaesthetic than listen to
> Stockhausen and his imitators?

If only I had your taste!

In message <g4jeao$m3j$1@registered.motzarella.org>, Anton Gÿsen 
<anton@invalid.invalid> writes

>4) Very low chance of data corruption, I don't fancy dying hard drives 
>or the data layer peeling off CDRs. Of course, you have to handle CDs 
>well but that's not difficult

I recently MP3ed all my CDs, which caused me to listen to ones I hadn't 
in years, and there were a surprising number of them that had developed 
defects, no physical scratches, but jumps and mutes[1] (in the same 
location when played on different CD players) had appeared, on some to 
such a degree to be too annoying to listen to. At least with HD based 
recordings it's easy to take multiple backups of the entire collection, 
if anything gets corrupted just restore from another backup.

[1] I have heard this is caused by oxidation of the aluminium[2] surface 
through microscopic fractures in the CD.

[2]IIRC the owner of Nimbus Records used to fret about this in the 80's 
and produced 'long life' gold surfaced CDs



-- 
bof at bof dot me dot uk

In article <486d0378$1_1@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, reddwarfer2
@tiscali.co.uk says...
> Beyond *that* I'm clearly not bothered so why keep 'em?
> 
Heathen! :)
-- 

Dom Robinson	  Gamertag: DVDfever      email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor)
/* 1174 DVDs, 375 games, 451 CDs, 114 cinema films, 54 concerts, music & news
/* gta 4, waz, sweeney todd, interstate 60, indiana jones, avp2, god of war
             New music charts - http://dvdfever.co.uk/music.shtml
               Youtube - http://uk.youtube.com/user/DieHardDom

On Thu, 03 Jul 2008 21:54:44 +0100, Poldie <_.@._> wrote:

>
>I'm sure with a few more minutes googling I'd be able to prove that I'm 
>not imagining the portable vinyl player I'm sure I saw photos of in the 
>1990's. It was a piece of kit with a slot for loading the record, which 
>span roughly in the centre.

Around 1975, I was working part-time in the skate hire at Southampton ice
rink, and one of the blokes in there used to bring a portable record player.
You could play singles by just pushing them in the slot, whether on a
surface, or while being carried by the shouldered strap.  LPs could be
played by opening the lid, and setting everything manually.  We used to
listen to Moody Blues albums.  It was OK, but not loud enough.

Even earlier, in the 60s, my granddad had a sort-of portable stereo.  The
lid came off, and split into two pieces, with a speaker in each.  It was far
better than it sounds, or rather, it sounded far better than it might have
been expected to - good stereo separation, and quite loud.  The batteries
didn't last long, though.
-- 
JAF anarchatntlworldfullstopcom
     Sapere Aude

In article <3E4bk.20071$E41.19738@text.news.virginmedia.com>, BofT@net.net 
says...
> 
> "Steve Firth" <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote in message 
> news:1iji9v4.rbxyrerdx4ioN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk...
> > Paul Hyett  wrote:
> >
> >> To me, it just doesn't *feel* like a download track is really yours,
> >> unlike holding an actual CD (or even vinyl record) in your hands.
> >>
> >> There are also often DRM issues with downloads too, which just don't
> >> apply with physical formats.
> >
> > My objection to downloads is that even the iTunes plus format is
> > compressed to 256KB/s which is a long way off uncompressed CD quality
> > (and even that isn't perfect). Although it is a lot better than the
> > original 128MB/s format and doesn't have the DRM nonsense of that
> > format.
> >
> > As to the other stuff, I notice an increasing number of iTunes albums
> > now come with decent sized artwork, PDF booklets and even videos which
> > would not appear on a CD.
> 
> To me it's all about the tune, if it's kickin nothing else matters.
> Ok there was something great about putting vinyl on a turntable
> and feeling the music, but there was also a downside.

CDs were like having someone turn the LP over for you.

MP3s save you having to even take them out of the box and then as the CDs get 
old they ski...ski...skip.
-- 

Dom Robinson	  Gamertag: DVDfever      email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor)
/* 1174 DVDs, 375 games, 451 CDs, 114 cinema films, 54 concerts, music & news
/* gta 4, waz, sweeney todd, interstate 60, indiana jones, avp2, god of war
             New music charts - http://dvdfever.co.uk/music.shtml
               Youtube - http://uk.youtube.com/user/DieHardDom

In article , 
mike.plowman@mydomain.net says...
> Stick Little Richard's Tutti Fritti on an old Dansette and stick
> Coldplay on your most expensive hi-fi. I know which one will have
> people rocking.
> 
Yes, but neither make much sense.
-- 

Dom Robinson	  Gamertag: DVDfever      email: dom at dvdfever dot co dot uk
/* http://DVDfever.co.uk (editor)
/* 1174 DVDs, 375 games, 451 CDs, 114 cinema films, 54 concerts, music & news
/* gta 4, waz, sweeney todd, interstate 60, indiana jones, avp2, god of war
             New music charts - http://dvdfever.co.uk/music.shtml
               Youtube - http://uk.youtube.com/user/DieHardDom