E4 are showing season 3.  They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't Remember 
Which Sister".  This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark and gets a job 
at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.

It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".

-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 at 20:55:56, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :

>E4 are showing season 3.  They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't Remember
>Which Sister".  This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark and gets a job
>at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.
>
>It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>
Just skip those episodes then...
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 at 20:55:56, Enzo Matrix 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>
>> E4 are showing season 3.  They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't
>> Remember Which Sister".  This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark
>> and gets a job at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.
>>
>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>>
> Just skip those episodes then...

The problem is that there are some funny bits mixed in with all the 
jealousy.  Joey's dance, for instance.  Or Chandler's pen. Or the girl with 
the wooden leg.

Thankfully, the jealousy only lasts for four episodes and then they are "on 
a break" so it should all be over bar the shouting by tomorrow...  Mind you, 
at the time I first watched these episodes, it seemed to take an awful lot 
longer for the break-up to occur.


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 10:47:52, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>>
>>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>>>
>> Just skip those episodes then...
>
>The problem is that there are some funny bits mixed in with all the
>jealousy.  Joey's dance, for instance.  Or Chandler's pen. Or the girl with
>the wooden leg.

But what were the *funny* bits you referred to...
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> E4 are showing season 3. They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't
> Remember Which Sister". This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark
> and gets a job at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.

> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".

Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)


Tennant

-- 
 ____  ____  _  _  _  _    __    _  _  ____ 
(_  _)( ___)( \( )( \( )  /__\  ( \( )(_  _) Greetings to family
  )(   )__)  )  (  )  (  /(__)\  )  (   )(  friends & neighbours
 (__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @orpheus.co.uk & MCR

For latest versions of my reviews, see http://towreviews.cjb.net

Tennant Stuart wrote:
> In article ,
> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>> E4 are showing season 3. They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't
>> Remember Which Sister". This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark
>> and gets a job at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.
>
>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>
> Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)


Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross.  Okay, she grew 
up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross never changed. 
He's always going to be an annoying neurotic.  I thought that Rachel would 
have been far better off with Joey.


It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica and 
Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that Monica and 
Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many times in the first 
few seasons.



-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 22:08:23, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>
>>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>>
>> Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)
>
>Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross.  Okay, she grew
>up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross never changed.
>He's always going to be an annoying neurotic.  I thought that Rachel would
>have been far better off with Joey.
>
They tried, but it just didn't work.
>
>It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica and
>Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that Monica and
>Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many times in the first
>few seasons.

Has anyone made such a list?
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 22:08:23, Enzo Matrix 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>>
>>>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>>>
>>> Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)
>>
>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross.  Okay,
>> she grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but
>> Ross never changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic.  I
>> thought that Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.
>>
> They tried, but it just didn't work.

It was just sad.  Everyone had a happy ending apart from Joey.  Monica and 
Chandler got married, adopted children and got a house in Westchester. 
Phoebe married Mike.  Ross and Rachel ended up together.

On the other hand, everything canged for Joey, which he simply couldn't 
handle. The only woman that he had ever truly loved - Rachel - went off with 
one of his best friends. Despite them all claiming that they would still see 
each other regularly, obviously they didn't because In the end, Joey moved 
to LA.  That's a *huge* change for Joey and one he would never have 
contemplated if he didn't already feel utterly alone.



>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>> times in the first few seasons.
>
> Has anyone made such a list?

In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and are 
unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica just freaks 
out!

In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug.  It seems to be more than a 
normal friendly hug.  (However, I sometimes wonder about the canonicity of 
this episode. The flashback scenes are set three years before. Rachel does 
not recognise Chandler, despite the fact that many flashbacks have shown 
that when he was in college he was a frequent visitor to the Gellar house 
and met Rachel on numerous occasions.  Also, in the pilot episode, the only 
people that Rachel knows are Monica and Ross, yet according to this 
flashback she has also met Chandler and Phoebe.)

In "TO At The Beach", there's a whole discussion about whether Monica would 
go out with Chandler. Although Monica claimed that she wouldn't, the 
discussion was a lot more flirty that would be expected if it were just 
between two friends.

Throughout the first few seasons Chandler and Monica always seem closer than 
with the others. Many times they are seen sat together with their arms 
around each other, as in "TOW Phoebe's Husband" when they are watching 
Joey's porn tape.




-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 12:33:30, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :
>
>It was just sad.  Everyone had a happy ending apart from Joey.  Monica and
>Chandler got married, adopted children and got a house in Westchester.
>Phoebe married Mike.  Ross and Rachel ended up together.
>
>On the other hand, everything canged for Joey, which he simply couldn't
>handle. The only woman that he had ever truly loved - Rachel - went off with
>one of his best friends. Despite them all claiming that they would still see
>each other regularly, obviously they didn't because In the end, Joey moved
>to LA.  That's a *huge* change for Joey and one he would never have
>contemplated if he didn't already feel utterly alone.

Well, ISTM that had the Joey spin-off not been pulled, he would surely 
have ended up happy with Alex - the plot was certainly heading that way.
>>
>> Has anyone made such a list?
>
>In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and are
>unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica just freaks
>out!

I think it was more a case of C. doing so - 'Dear God, this parachute is 
a knapsack!'
>
>In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug.  It seems to be more than a
>normal friendly hug.  (However, I sometimes wonder about the canonicity of
>this episode. The flashback scenes are set three years before. Rachel does
>not recognise Chandler, despite the fact that many flashbacks have shown
>that when he was in college he was a frequent visitor to the Gellar house
>and met Rachel on numerous occasions.  Also, in the pilot episode, the only
>people that Rachel knows are Monica and Ross, yet according to this
>flashback she has also met Chandler and Phoebe.)
>
The curse of the retcons! :)

>In "TO At The Beach", there's a whole discussion about whether Monica would
>go out with Chandler. Although Monica claimed that she wouldn't, the
>discussion was a lot more flirty that would be expected if it were just
>between two friends.

And they certainly managed to get past him peeing on her... :)
>
>Throughout the first few seasons Chandler and Monica always seem closer than
>with the others. Many times they are seen sat together with their arms
>around each other, as in "TOW Phoebe's Husband" when they are watching
>Joey's porn tape.

There were probably others we've missed, too.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 12:33:30, Enzo Matrix 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>
>> It was just sad.  Everyone had a happy ending apart from Joey. Monica and 
>> Chandler got married, adopted children and got a house in
>> Westchester. Phoebe married Mike.  Ross and Rachel ended up together.
>>
>> On the other hand, everything canged for Joey, which he simply
>> couldn't handle. The only woman that he had ever truly loved -
>> Rachel - went off with one of his best friends. Despite them all
>> claiming that they would still see each other regularly, obviously
>> they didn't because In the end, Joey moved to LA.  That's a *huge*
>> change for Joey and one he would never have contemplated if he
>> didn't already feel utterly alone.
>
> Well, ISTM that had the Joey spin-off not been pulled, he would surely
> have ended up happy with Alex - the plot was certainly heading that
> way.

One thought... if his friends loved him so much, why did none of them ever 
visit?




>>> Has anyone made such a list?
>>
>> In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and
>> are unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica
>> just freaks out!
>
> I think it was more a case of C. doing so - 'Dear God, this parachute
> is a knapsack!'
>>
>> In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug.  It seems to be
>> more than a normal friendly hug.  (However, I sometimes wonder about
>> the canonicity of this episode. The flashback scenes are set three
>> years before. Rachel does not recognise Chandler, despite the fact
>> that many flashbacks have shown that when he was in college he was a
>> frequent visitor to the Gellar house and met Rachel on numerous
>> occasions.  Also, in the pilot episode, the only people that Rachel
>> knows are Monica and Ross, yet according to this flashback she has
>> also met Chandler and Phoebe.)
> The curse of the retcons! :)


Indeed!  In "TOW The Prom Video", Chandler is astonished to discover that 
Monica was once fat.  Yet subsequent episodes establish that he already knew 
and had even made insulting comments about her..


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 18:22:25, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>
>> Well, ISTM that had the Joey spin-off not been pulled, he would surely
>> have ended up happy with Alex - the plot was certainly heading that
>> way.
>
>One thought... if his friends loved him so much, why did none of them ever
>visit?
>
Perhaps they unwisely suggested that this 'was not his big break'... :)
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> In article ,
>> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

>>> E4 are showing season 3. They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't
>>> Remember Which Sister". This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark
>>> and gets a job at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.

>>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".

>> Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)

> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay, she
> grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross never
> changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic. I thought that
> Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.

I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the writers'
plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear in a spin-off,
and the remaining five had to have their loose ends tied up. There were
quite a few rumours about a "Rachel in Paris" sitcom, but that died.


> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica and
> Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that Monica and
> Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many times in the first
> few seasons.

Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where everybody
liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic of the show.
When they finally went for it at the end of S4, Chandler & Monica were
supposed to last only a few episodes, but then the ratings soared.


Tennant

-- 
 ____  ____  _  _  _  _    __    _  _  ____ 
(_  _)( ___)( \( )( \( )  /__\  ( \( )(_  _) Greetings to family
  )(   )__)  )  (  )  (  /(__)\  )  (   )(  friends & neighbours
 (__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @orpheus.co.uk & MCR

For latest versions of my reviews, see http://towreviews.cjb.net

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> Paul Hyett wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 22:08:23, Enzo Matrix 
>> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :

>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>> times in the first few seasons.

>> Has anyone made such a list?

> In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and are
> unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica just
> freaks out!

> In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug. It seems to be more
> thana normal friendly hug. (However, I sometimes wonder about the
> canonicity of this episode. The flashback scenes are set three years
> before. Rachel does not recognise Chandler, despite the fact that many
> flashbacks have shown that when he was in college he was a frequent
> visitor to the Gellar house and met Rachel on numerous occasions.

> Also, in the pilot episode, the only people that Rachel knows are Monica
> and Ross, yet according to this flashback she has also met Chandler and
> Phoebe.)

Actually, in the pilot episode Monica *assumes* that Rachel doesn't know
either Chandler *or* Ross. The scene ends before Rachel corrects her.


> In "TO At The Beach", there's a whole discussion about whether Monica
> would go out with Chandler. Although Monica claimed that she wouldn't,
> the discussion was a lot more flirty that would be expected if it were
> just between two friends.

> Throughout the first few seasons Chandler and Monica always seem closer
> than with the others. Many times they are seen sat together with their
> arms around each other, as in "TOW Phoebe's Husband" when they are
> watching Joey's porn tape.

You missed all the times they were squashed into one armchair. :)


Tennant

-- 
 ____  ____  _  _  _  _    __    _  _  ____ 
(_  _)( ___)( \( )( \( )  /__\  ( \( )(_  _) Greetings to family
  )(   )__)  )  (  )  (  /(__)\  )  (   )(  friends & neighbours
 (__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @orpheus.co.uk & MCR

For latest versions of my reviews, see http://towreviews.cjb.net

Tennant Stuart wrote:
> In article ,
> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>>> In article ,
>>> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>>>> E4 are showing season 3. They have just shown "TOW Chandler Can't
>>>> Remember Which Sister". This is the episode where Rachel meets Mark
>>>> and gets a job at Bloomingdales. Ross becomes jealous.
>
>>>> It's the start of the slide to the low point of "Friends".
>
>>> Otherwise known as the high point, to Ross & Phoebe shippers. :)
>
>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay, she
>> grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross
>> never changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic. I
>> thought that Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.
>
> I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the
> writers' plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear in
> a spin-off, and the remaining five had to have their loose ends tied
> up. There were quite a few rumours about a "Rachel in Paris" sitcom,
> but that died.
>
>
>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>> times in the first few seasons.
>
> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where
> everybody liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic
> of the show.

The Moonlighting Effect!

-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

Tennant Stuart wrote:
> In article ,
> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 22:08:23, Enzo Matrix 
>>> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>
>>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>>> times in the first few seasons.
>
>>> Has anyone made such a list?
>
>> In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and
>> are unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica
>> just freaks out!
>
>> In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug. It seems to be more
>> thana normal friendly hug. (However, I sometimes wonder about the
>> canonicity of this episode. The flashback scenes are set three years
>> before. Rachel does not recognise Chandler, despite the fact that
>> many flashbacks have shown that when he was in college he was a
>> frequent visitor to the Gellar house and met Rachel on numerous
>> occasions.
>
>> Also, in the pilot episode, the only people that Rachel knows are
>> Monica and Ross, yet according to this flashback she has also met
>> Chandler and Phoebe.)
>
> Actually, in the pilot episode Monica *assumes* that Rachel doesn't
> know either Chandler *or* Ross. The scene ends before Rachel corrects
> her.

Monica says "you know Ross already".

But as we know from subsequent episodes, she knew that Rachel had met 
Chandler because Rachel was an indrect cause of Monica cutting Chandler's 
toe off!


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 18:01:00, Tennant Stuart  
wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>
>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay, she
>> grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross never
>> changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic. I thought that
>> Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.
>
>I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the writers'
>plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear in a spin-off,
>and the remaining five had to have their loose ends tied up.

At what point during S10 was the spin-off confirmed, I wonder?
>
>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica and
>> Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that Monica and
>> Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many times in the first
>> few seasons.
>
>Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where everybody
>liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic of the show.
>When they finally went for it at the end of S4, Chandler & Monica were
>supposed to last only a few episodes, but then the ratings soared.

But they also soared when Ross & Rachel got together in S2, but...
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 22:19:39, Enzo Matrix  wrote 
in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>
>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>> times in the first few seasons.
>>
>> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where
>> everybody liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic
>> of the show.
>
>The Moonlighting Effect!
>
I watched that show, but never recognised any such effect.
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 22:19:39, Enzo Matrix 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>>
>>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>>> times in the first few seasons.
>>>
>>> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where
>>> everybody liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic
>>> of the show.
>>
>> The Moonlighting Effect!
>>
> I watched that show, but never recognised any such effect.

The first couple of seasons were the most popular thing on telly. Ratings 
were sky high, no doubt due to the sexual tension between David and Maddie. 
Then, as soon as David and Maddie got together, the show lost its spark and 
ratings fell through the floor. After a very lacklustre fourth season, the 
show never regained its popularity and was cancelled during the fifth.  A 
show that is predicated on sexual tension between two main characters cannot 
help but jump the shark after those characters get together.  Chris Carter 
claimed that "Moonlighting" was the reason that Mulder and Scully never got 
together (apart from a one-night stand) until the final episode of the X 
Files.

I can see how the PTBs of "Friends" would be concerned abut spoiling the 
dynamic of the show. However, "Friends" was never predicated purely on the 
sexual tension between one couple and so managed to avoid that pitfall. I 
also think that if the PTBs had allowed Monica and Chandler to break up, the 
show could really have become very formulaic, with pairings between various 
friends every couple of years.


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 18:01:00, Tennant Stuart
>  wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>>
>>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay,
>>> she grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but
>>> Ross never changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic. I
>>> thought that Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.
>>
>> I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the
>> writers' plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear
>> in a spin-off, and the remaining five had to have their loose ends
>> tied up.
>
> At what point during S10 was the spin-off confirmed, I wonder?
>>
>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>> times in the first few seasons.
>>
>> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where
>> everybody liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic
>> of the show. When they finally went for it at the end of S4,
>> Chandler & Monica were supposed to last only a few episodes, but
>> then the ratings soared.
>
> But they also soared when Ross & Rachel got together in S2, but...

There's only so many times you can go to the well. Like I said in another 
post, having Monica and Chandler break up would have been a re-run of the 
Rachel/Ross affair. No doubt in the next season we would have had a short 
term pairing of Phoebe and Joey, and then they would have started to ring 
the changes. I doubt the show would have lasted ten years if they'd done 
that.


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

Paul Hyett wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 12:33:30, Enzo Matrix 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>> Throughout the first few seasons Chandler and Monica always seem
>> closer than with the others. Many times they are seen sat together
>> with their arms around each other, as in "TOW Phoebe's Husband" when
>> they are watching Joey's porn tape.
>
> There were probably others we've missed, too.

I've just watched "TOW the Screamer". Monica and Chandler were located 
virtually within each others' ribcages!


-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> In article ,
>> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

>>> Paul Hyett wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 22:08:23, Enzo Matrix 
>>>> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :

>>>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>>>> times in the first few seasons.

>>>> Has anyone made such a list?

>>> In "TOW The Birth", Chandler speculates that if they reach forty and
>>> are unmarried maybe he and Monica could have a baby together. Monica
>>> just freaks out!

>>> In "TOW The Flashback", Chandler and Monica hug. It seems to be more
>>> thana normal friendly hug. (However, I sometimes wonder about the
>>> canonicity of this episode. The flashback scenes are set three years
>>> before. Rachel does not recognise Chandler, despite the fact that
>>> many flashbacks have shown that when he was in college he was a
>>> frequent visitor to the Gellar house and met Rachel on numerous
>>> occasions.

>>> Also, in the pilot episode, the only people that Rachel knows are
>>> Monica and Ross, yet according to this flashback she has also met
>>> Chandler and Phoebe.)

>> Actually, in the pilot episode Monica *assumes* that Rachel doesn't
>> know either Chandler *or* Ross. The scene ends before Rachel corrects
>> her.

> Monica says "you know Ross already".

No, she asks Rachel if she remembers her brother Ross.


> But as we know from subsequent episodes, she knew that Rachel had met
> Chandler because Rachel was an indrect cause of Monica cutting Chandler's
> toe off!

The point is not who Monica knows. The point is that from the scene
one cannot assume that Rachel doesn't know Chandler, so no retcon.


Tennant

-- 
 ____  ____  _  _  _  _    __    _  _  ____ 
(_  _)( ___)( \( )( \( )  /__\  ( \( )(_  _) Greetings to family
  )(   )__)  )  (  )  (  /(__)\  )  (   )(  friends & neighbours
 (__) (____)(_)\_)(_)\_)(__)(__)(_)\_) (__) @orpheus.co.uk & MCR

For latest versions of my reviews, see http://towreviews.cjb.net

In article , Paul Hyett
 wrote:

> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 18:01:00, Tennant Stuart 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :

>>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay, she
>>> grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but Ross never
>>> changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic. I thought that
>>> Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.

>> I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the writers'
>> plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear in a spin-off,
>> and the remaining five had to have their loose ends tied up.

> At what point during S10 was the spin-off confirmed, I wonder?

I can't remember now when that was, but probably in the S9-S10 hiatus.


>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that Monica
>>> and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many times in
>>> the first few seasons.

>> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where everybody
>> liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the dynamic of the show.
>> When they finally went for it at the end of S4, Chandler & Monica were
>> supposed to last only a few episodes, but then the ratings soared.

> But they also soared when Ross & Rachel got together in S2, but...

..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel were a
'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for Chandler &
Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his posts).


Tennant

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In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> I've just watched "TOW the Screamer". Monica and Chandler were located
> virtually within each others' ribcages!

Exactly, and this increases towards the end of Season 3.


Tennant

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Tennant Stuart wrote:
> In article , Paul Hyett
>  wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 18:01:00, Tennant Stuart
>>  wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :
>
>>>> Well, I was astonished that Rachel ended up back with Ross. Okay,
>>>> she grew up somewhat and became a lot less high-maintenance, but
>>>> Ross never changed. He's always going to be an annoying neurotic.
>>>> I thought that Rachel would have been far better off with Joey.
>
>>> I feel the same way, but wasn't astonished by events since the
>>> writers' plans were ruined when only Matt LeBlanc agreed to appear
>>> in a spin-off, and the remaining five had to have their loose ends
>>> tied up.
>
>> At what point during S10 was the spin-off confirmed, I wonder?
>
> I can't remember now when that was, but probably in the S9-S10 hiatus.
>
>
>>>> It's also a bit odd watching these early episodes when I see Monica
>>>> and Chandler dating other people. However, I have noticed that
>>>> Monica and Chandler's eventual relationship was foreshadowed many
>>>> times in the first few seasons.
>
>>> Indeedy. This was a result of wars in the writing room, where
>>> everybody liked the pairing, but some felt it would ruin the
>>> dynamic of the show. When they finally went for it at the end of
>>> S4, Chandler & Monica were supposed to last only a few episodes,
>>> but then the ratings soared.
>
>> But they also soared when Ross & Rachel got together in S2, but...
>
> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel were a
> 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for Chandler &
> Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his posts).


nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes while 
Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.

-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

>> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel were a
>> 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for Chandler &
>> Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his posts).

> nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes

Yes, or Richard & Caroline, Sam & Diane, Sam & Rebecca, Niles & Daphne,
Smithy & Nessa, Vince & Penny, and Richard & Audrey...


> while Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.

..yes, or Greg & Dharma, Harvey & Sabrina, Dave & Lisa, Steve & Susan,
Darrin & Samantha, and Gavin & Stacey. :)


Tennant

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Tennant Stuart wrote:
> In article ,
> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>>> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel
>>> were a 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for
>>> Chandler & Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his
>>> posts).
>
>> nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes
>
> Yes, or Richard & Caroline, Sam & Diane, Sam & Rebecca, Niles &
> Daphne, Smithy & Nessa, Vince & Penny, and Richard & Audrey...
>
>
>> while Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.
>
> ..yes, or Greg & Dharma, Harvey & Sabrina, Dave & Lisa, Steve & Susan,
> Darrin & Samantha, and Gavin & Stacey. :)


You forgot Karl & Susan!

-- 
Enzo

I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

On Wed, 21 May 2008 at 18:03:00, Tennant Stuart  
wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :

>In article ,
>"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:
>
>>> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel were a
>>> 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for Chandler &
>>> Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his posts).
>
>> nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes
>
>Yes, or Richard & Caroline, Sam & Diane, Sam & Rebecca, Niles & Daphne,
>Smithy & Nessa, Vince & Penny, and Richard & Audrey...

Or Susan & Jack...
>
>> while Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.
>
>..yes, or Greg & Dharma, Harvey & Sabrina, Dave & Lisa, Steve & Susan,
>Darrin & Samantha, and Gavin & Stacey. :)
>
Is this a contest to see how many of these TV couples you can identify? 
:)
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

In article ,
"Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

> Tennant Stuart wrote:
>> In article ,
>> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

>>>> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel
>>>> were a 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for
>>>> Chandler & Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his
>>>> posts).

>>> nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes

>> Yes, or Richard & Caroline, Sam & Diane, Sam & Rebecca, Niles &
>> Daphne, Smithy & Nessa, Vince & Penny, and Richard & Audrey...


>>> while Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.

>> ..yes, or Greg & Dharma, Harvey & Sabrina, Dave & Lisa, Steve & Susan,
>> Darrin & Samantha, and Gavin & Stacey. :)

> You forgot Karl & Susan!

What, after that messy divorce? Their daughter Julie is sweet though.


Tennant

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In article <SoG4RqC++QNIFwyA@blueyonder.co.uk>,
Paul Hyett  wrote:

> On Wed, 21 May 2008 at 18:03:00, Tennant Stuart 
> wrote in uk.media.tv.friends :

>> In article ,
>> "Enzo Matrix"  wrote:

>>>> ..but then dropped again. The difference was that Ross & Rachel were a
>>>> 'will-they-won't-they' type couple, whereas the dynamic for Chandler &
>>>> Monica was quite different, (as Enzo is saying in his posts).

>>> nodnodnod   Ross and Rachel were like David Addison and Maddie Hayes

>> Yes, or Richard & Caroline, Sam & Diane, Sam & Rebecca, Niles & Daphne,
>> Smithy & Nessa, Vince & Penny, and Richard & Audrey...

> Or Susan & Jack...

>>> while Chandler and Monica were more like Paul and Jamie Buchman.

>> ..yes, or Greg & Dharma, Harvey & Sabrina, Dave & Lisa, Steve & Susan,
>> Darrin & Samantha, and Gavin & Stacey. :)

> Is this a contest to see how many of these TV couples you can identify?
> :)

Nope, just the legacy of old threads on ATF and UMTF. :)


Tennant

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