Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but 
anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life 
on Mars".  The basic premise of "Life on Mars" was, of course, "A 
Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode 
definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old 
"Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)

I rather think that "Life on  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans 
would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

(But wherever they go, and whatever happens to them on the way, in that 
enchanted place on top of the Forest, a little boy and his bear will always 
be playing.)
-- 
John Briggs

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  

Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate 
interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  

Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate 
interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

"vague disclaimer"  wrote in message 
news:l64o-1rj5-C25418.10115511042007@europe.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> >> was, of course, "A
>> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>> >>
>> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> >> :-)
>> >
>> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his
>> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep 
>> your
>> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot 
>> in
>> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.

I was convinced Annie was one of the nurses looking after him in hospital. 
She looked/talked more like a nurse than a policewoman.

> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).
>
> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

I'd forgotten all about that but thanks for reminding me Ian as it now means 
I won't sleep nights wondering about it :o)

(kim)

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
>>
>> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at
>> the beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.
>
> Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate
> interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

It was certainly real enough for Sam Tyler.  It is left ambiguous on 
screen - don't make the mistake of assuming that an interview by the author 
is 'canon '.
-- 
John Briggs

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  

Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate 
interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

"vague disclaimer"  wrote in message 
news:l64o-1rj5-C25418.10115511042007@europe.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> >> was, of course, "A
>> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>> >>
>> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> >> :-)
>> >
>> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his
>> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep 
>> your
>> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot 
>> in
>> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.

I was convinced Annie was one of the nurses looking after him in hospital. 
She looked/talked more like a nurse than a policewoman.

> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).
>
> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

I'd forgotten all about that but thanks for reminding me Ian as it now means 
I won't sleep nights wondering about it :o)

(kim)

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
>>
>> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at
>> the beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.
>
> Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate
> interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

It was certainly real enough for Sam Tyler.  It is left ambiguous on 
screen - don't make the mistake of assuming that an interview by the author 
is 'canon '.
-- 
John Briggs

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  

Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate 
interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

"vague disclaimer"  wrote in message 
news:l64o-1rj5-C25418.10115511042007@europe.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> >> was, of course, "A
>> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>> >>
>> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> >> :-)
>> >
>> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his
>> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep 
>> your
>> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot 
>> in
>> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.

I was convinced Annie was one of the nurses looking after him in hospital. 
She looked/talked more like a nurse than a policewoman.

> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).
>
> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

I'd forgotten all about that but thanks for reminding me Ian as it now means 
I won't sleep nights wondering about it :o)

(kim)

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
>>
>> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at
>> the beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.
>
> Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate
> interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

It was certainly real enough for Sam Tyler.  It is left ambiguous on 
screen - don't make the mistake of assuming that an interview by the author 
is 'canon '.
-- 
John Briggs

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

rayhigh wrote:
> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> was, of course, "A
>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>>
>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> :-)
>
> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.

OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> rayhigh wrote:
> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >> was, of course, "A
> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
> >>
> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >> :-)
> >
> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> 
> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his 
> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep your 
> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot in 
> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.

I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel. 

A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the 
end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the 
alt group :).

Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so 
shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the 
first episode though.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer, where 
he bares all), you probably should:

http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

Mark Myers wrote:
> If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> where he bares all), you probably should:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k

Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
(changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.
-- 
John Briggs

vague disclaimer wrote:
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>>>> was, of course, "A
>>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
>>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
>>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
>>>> believe.)
>>>>
>>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>>>> :-)
>>>
>>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
>> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
>> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
>> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
>> him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
>
> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).

Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
television programme :-)

> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
"Torchwood", for example.
-- 
John Briggs

In article <dj9Th.1505$vV5.650@newsfe5-win.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> vague disclaimer wrote:
> > In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> > "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >
> >> rayhigh wrote:
> >>> On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> >>>> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
> >>>> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
> >>>> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
> >>>> was, of course, "A
> >>>> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last
> >>>> episode definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a
> >>>> touch of an old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I
> >>>> believe.)
> >>>>
> >>>> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
> >>>> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
> >>>> :-)
> >>>
> >>> I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
> >>> Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
> >>> story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
> >>> build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
> >>
> >> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy
> >> his friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You
> >> always keep your promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".
> >> Plus "reality" being shot in washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing
> >> him," at the end.
> >
> > I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.
> >
> > A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> > end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> > alt group :).
> 
> Rather a heavy-handed way of just making the point that it's all just a 
> television programme :-)

No, no, no. *It's* not a TV programme, *we* are!
> 
> > Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> > shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> > first episode though.
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  Although even that doesn't 
> seem to have been properly planned.  I think it illustrates that even our 
> best programmes have underdeveloped scripts - this was disastrous for 
> "Torchwood", for example.

And also, I think they were expecting to have John Simm for longer.
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

In article <p27Th.293$NZ2.57@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
 "John Briggs"  wrote:

> Mark Myers wrote:
> > If you haven't read this (a spoilerific interview with the writer,
> > where he bares all), you probably should:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/ypka8k
> 
> Which rather suggests that the "co-creator" hadn't thought things through 
> (changing your mind halfway-through is never a good idea.)  But he wrote 
> that episode, so the "Normal Again" elements are down to him.

Nice to see you haven't abandoned your trademark absolutism :). Changing 
your mind when something isn't working is definitely a good idea (in 
fact it is perfectly clear he had thought it through, but in execution 
realised it was wrong).
-- 
What does not kill me makes me stronger. Unless it leaves me as a quadriplegic.

On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
> 
> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at the 
> beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.  

Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate 
interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

-- 
Mark Myers
usenet2 at mcm2002 dot f9 dot co dot uk
I have all the specs and diagrams at home.

"vague disclaimer"  wrote in message 
news:l64o-1rj5-C25418.10115511042007@europe.isp.giganews.com...
> In article <mr1Th.64$%K5.56@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
> "John Briggs"  wrote:
>
>> rayhigh wrote:
>> > On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
>> >> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly
>> >> original, but anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised
>> >> by the ending of "Life onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars"
>> >> was, of course, "A
>> >> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
>> >> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an
>> >> old "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>> >>
>> >> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy
>> >> fans would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode
>> >> :-)
>> >
>> > I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
>> > Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Willoughby."  I mean...it's a good
>> > story to ripoff, but I was expecting a bit more meat after a 16 hour
>> > build up.  I honestly don't see the "Normal Again" analogy.
>>
>> OK, the specific " Normal Again" elements are him having to destroy his
>> friends in order to "get back", and his mother saying "You always keep 
>> your
>> promises," to inspire him to resist "reality".  Plus "reality" being shot 
>> in
>> washed-out colours.  Plus "We're losing him," at the end.
>
> I certainly saw the Normal Again parallel.

I was convinced Annie was one of the nurses looking after him in hospital. 
She looked/talked more like a nurse than a policewoman.

> A nice meta touch was having test card girl turn the telly off at the
> end. Imagine how *that* would have wound up the NA haters over on the
> alt group :).
>
> Overall, I can't decide whether I liked or hated the way they so
> shamelessly disposed of the 'kidnapped girlfriend' plot set up in the
> first episode though.

I'd forgotten all about that but thanks for reminding me Ian as it now means 
I won't sleep nights wondering about it :o)

(kim)

Mark Myers wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2007 17:56:25 GMT, John Briggs said...
>>
>> It's just part of the way they slipped from "reality" being real at
>> the beginning, to "1973"  being real at the end.
>
> Um, 1973 was never real, even at the end. You need an accurate
> interpretation before your criticisms can have validity.

It was certainly real enough for Sam Tyler.  It is left ambiguous on 
screen - don't make the mistake of assuming that an interview by the author 
is 'canon '.
-- 
John Briggs

On Apr 10, 6:11 pm, "John Briggs"  wrote:
> Now, I know the plotline of "Normal Again" wasn't particularly original, but
> anyone familiar with it wouldn't have been surprised by the ending of "Life
> onMars".  The basic premise of "LifeonMars" was, of course, "A
> Connecticut Yankee At The Court of King Arthur", but the last episode
> definitely drew on "Normal Again", and there was just a touch of an old
> "Twilight Zone" episode ("Dreams for Sale", I believe.)
>
> I rather think that "Lifeon  Mars" fans are in the position Buffy fans
> would have been in if "Normal Again" had been the last episode :-)

I think the whole series ended up being a homage to Rod Serling's
Twilight Zone script "A Stop At Wi