An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been told
"You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was followed by
an item about the Irish referendum....

-- 
Remove "antispam" and ".invalid" for e-mail address.

Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been
> told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was
> followed by an item about the Irish referendum....

The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try and 
push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it in a 
referendum.

Stephen O'Connell wrote:
> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been
>> told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was
>> followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>
> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try and
> push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it in a
> referendum.

And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which receives a 
large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about it. 'Democracy' is 
bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in Europe with only the Swiss 
coming close. And what does that give, a Canton that gave the vote to 
women just a couple of years ago. Democracy as we know it is utter crap.

"John of Aix"  writes:

> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been
>>> told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was
>>> followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>
>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try and
>> push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it in a
>> referendum.
>
> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which receives a 
> large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about it. 'Democracy' is 
> bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in Europe with only the Swiss 
> coming close. And what does that give, a Canton that gave the vote to 
> women just a couple of years ago. Democracy as we know it is utter crap. 

It's better than everything else on offer.

-- 
watching the river flow

August West wrote:
> "John of Aix"  writes:
>
>> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been
>>>> told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was
>>>> followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>>
>>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try
>>> and push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it in
>>> a referendum.
>>
>> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which
>> receives a large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about it.
>> 'Democracy' is bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in Europe
>> with only the Swiss coming close. And what does that give, a Canton
>> that gave the vote to women just a couple of years ago. Democracy as
>> we know it is utter crap.
>
> It's better than everything else on offer.

Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that situation 
acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve it or find 
some other form of representation and decision making.

"John of Aix"  writes:

> August West wrote:
>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>
>>> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>>>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had been
>>>>> told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."  That was
>>>>> followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>>>
>>>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try
>>>> and push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it in
>>>> a referendum.
>>>
>>> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which
>>> receives a large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about it.
>>> 'Democracy' is bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in Europe
>>> with only the Swiss coming close. And what does that give, a Canton
>>> that gave the vote to women just a couple of years ago. Democracy as
>>> we know it is utter crap.
>>
>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>
> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that situation 
> acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve it or find 
> some other form of representation and decision making. 

That's just bollocks.

-- 
if you want me, I'll be in the bar

August West wrote:
> "John of Aix"  writes:
>
>> August West wrote:
>>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>>
>>>> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>>>>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>>>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had
>>>>>> been told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."
>>>>>> That was followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>>>>
>>>>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try
>>>>> and push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it
>>>>> in a referendum.
>>>>
>>>> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which
>>>> receives a large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about
>>>> it. 'Democracy' is bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in
>>>> Europe with only the Swiss coming close. And what does that give,
>>>> a Canton that gave the vote to women just a couple of years ago.
>>>> Democracy as we know it is utter crap.
>>>
>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>>
>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve
>> it or find some other form of representation and decision making.
>
> That's just bollocks.

No it isn't. As long as in the UK they go on about it being a democracy 
the longer it won't change to become one. " "Well it's a democracy 
innit, best system in the world innit?" as if by repeating the mantra 
everyone will be convinced that both statements apply to the UK whereas 
the first is patently not true. Until that is accepted then nothing will 
change.

"John of Aix"  wrote in message 
news:48554f60$0$870$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
> August West wrote:
>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>
>>> August West wrote:
>>>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>>>>>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>>>>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had
>>>>>>> been told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."
>>>>>>> That was followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also try
>>>>>> and push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland rejecting it
>>>>>> in a referendum.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which
>>>>> receives a large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about
>>>>> it. 'Democracy' is bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in
>>>>> Europe with only the Swiss coming close. And what does that give,
>>>>> a Canton that gave the vote to women just a couple of years ago.
>>>>> Democracy as we know it is utter crap.
>>>>
>>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>>>
>>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
>>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve
>>> it or find some other form of representation and decision making.
>>
>> That's just bollocks.
>
> No it isn't. As long as in the UK they go on about it being a democracy 
> the longer it won't change to become one. " "Well it's a democracy innit, 
> best system in the world innit?" as if by repeating the mantra everyone 
> will be convinced that both statements apply to the UK whereas the first 
> is patently not true. Until that is accepted then nothing will change.
So you're convinced that democracy as enacted in the UK and the EU is 
unsatisfactory (I take it that you can apply the qualitative distinction to 
notice that it's better than Zimbabwean democracy), and apparently you also 
think that there could be better systems than democracy. What in your 
aopinion are the potential candidates and why?

budstaff wrote:
> "John of Aix"  wrote in message
> news:48554f60$0$870$ba4acef3@news.orange.fr...
>> August West wrote:
>>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>>
>>>> August West wrote:
>>>>> "John of Aix"  writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Stephen O'Connell wrote:
>>>>>>> Frederick Williams" <"Frederick Williams wrote:
>>>>>>>> An item about the Zimbabwean election reported that people had
>>>>>>>> been told "You voted wrongly and we're going to punish you."
>>>>>>>> That was followed by an item about the Irish referendum....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The EU will lecture Mugabe about democracy, but they will also
>>>>>>> try and push on with the Lisbon treaty, despite Ireland
>>>>>>> rejecting it in a referendum.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And the UK will lecture Zimbabwe and elect a government which
>>>>>> receives a large majority with 35% of the vote. So tell me about
>>>>>> it. 'Democracy' is bollocks, there isn't a democratic country in
>>>>>> Europe with only the Swiss coming close. And what does that give,
>>>>>> a Canton that gave the vote to women just a couple of years ago.
>>>>>> Democracy as we know it is utter crap.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>>>>
>>>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
>>>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to
>>>> improve it or find some other form of representation and decision
>>>> making.
>>>
>>> That's just bollocks.
>>
>> No it isn't. As long as in the UK they go on about it being a
>> democracy the longer it won't change to become one. " "Well it's a
>> democracy innit, best system in the world innit?" as if by repeating
>> the mantra everyone will be convinced that both statements apply to
>> the UK whereas the first is patently not true. Until that is
>> accepted then nothing will change.

> So you're convinced that democracy as enacted in the UK and the EU is
> unsatisfactory (I take it that you can apply the qualitative
> distinction to notice that it's better than Zimbabwean democracy),

Of course it is better than Zimbabwean democracy, what a stupid remark 
on your part, however that does not make it good.

> and apparently you also think that there could be better systems than
> democracy. What in your aopinion are the potential candidates and why?

There probably could be better systems than democracy but until we have 
democracy we won't be able to compare and, for the moment, there is no 
proper democracy in the UK. Huge government majorities when two thirds 
of the people voted against it is not democracy in any way, shape or 
form.

On 16 Jun, 15:51, "John of Aix"  wrote:

> There probably could be better systems than democracy but until we have
> democracy we won't be able to compare and, for the moment, there is no
> proper democracy in the UK. Huge government majorities when two thirds
> of the people voted against it is not democracy in any way, shape or
> form.

Your only beef seems to be the absence of PR, which exists in plenty
of other places.

>>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>>>
>>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
>>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve
>>> it or find some other form of representation and decision making.
>>
>> That's just bollocks.

No, not really, Rather than find "...some other form....", I'd like to
make the present one work, and the best way to do that, is to stick a
cattle prod up the arse of every indolent, feckless, diffident,
disinterested voter in the land. Then, line up the worst 75% of MP's
against the wall, and....you know the rest. Then make voting
compulsory, a la Australia. I am active in politics, and I can tell
you friend, democracy as you know it is NOT working. Your reply wasn't
worth the effort it took to type. 

>
>No it isn't. As long as in the UK they go on about it being a democracy 
>the longer it won't change to become one. " "Well it's a democracy 
>innit, best system in the world innit?" as if by repeating the mantra 
>everyone will be convinced that both statements apply to the UK whereas 
>the first is patently not true. Until that is accepted then nothing will 
>change. 
>

Absolutely wise and true.

"S." wrote:
> 
> >>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
> >>>
> >>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
> >>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve
> >>> it or find some other form of representation and decision making.
> >>
> >> That's just bollocks.
> 
> No, not really, Rather than find "...some other form....", I'd like to
> make the present one work, and the best way to do that, is to stick a
> cattle prod up the arse of every indolent, feckless, diffident,
> disinterested voter in the land. Then, line up the worst 75% of MP's
> against the wall, and....you know the rest. Then make voting
> compulsory, 

That won't improve the quality of the MPs nor the policies of the
government and opposition, also making people vote won't make them vote
sensibly.

> a la Australia. I am active in politics, and I can tell
> you friend, democracy as you know it is NOT working. Your reply wasn't
> worth the effort it took to type.
> 
> >
> >No it isn't. As long as in the UK they go on about it being a democracy
> >the longer it won't change to become one. " "Well it's a democracy
> >innit, best system in the world innit?" as if by repeating the mantra
> >everyone will be convinced that both statements apply to the UK whereas
> >the first is patently not true. Until that is accepted then nothing will
> >change.
> >
> 
> Absolutely wise and true.


-- 
He is not here; but far away
  The noise of life begins again
  And ghastly thro' the drizzling rain
On the bald street breaks the blank day.

S.  writes:

>>>>> It's better than everything else on offer.
>>>>
>>>> Yes but it's still crap and such statements serve to make that
>>>> situation acceptable and so put into abeyance any attempt to improve
>>>> it or find some other form of representation and decision making.
>>>
>>> That's just bollocks.
>
> No, not really, Rather than find "...some other form....", I'd like to
> make the present one work, and the best way to do that, is to stick a
> cattle prod up the arse of every indolent, feckless, diffident,
> disinterested voter in the land. 

Why? Is compulsion going to make them think, or just cause them to turn
up, and stick their crosses in random boxes? (Research suggets that it's
the latter).

Most people don't care, and there's no way to make them care.

> Then, line up the worst 75% of MP's against the wall, and....you know
> the rest. Then make voting compulsory, a la Australia. I am active in
> politics, and I can tell you friend, democracy as you know it is NOT
> working. Your reply wasn't worth the effort it took to type.

Goodness; with all that pent-up passive agression do you get many votes,
"friend"?

-- 
My name is August West