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date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:59:47 +0000,
group: uk.media.radio.bbc-r4
back
Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
My novel 'Those in Peril' started out its chequered life as a Saturday
Night Theatre radio play with the ponderous title: 'The Long, Lonely
Voyage of U-395'. It was first broadcast in 1980, produced by the late
Glyn Dearman, and starred Peter Ustinov's lovely daughter, Tammy.
As with many of my stories, the idea came from a seemingly
inconsequential footnote in history: Karl Doenitz's memoirs. He was the
flag officer commanding Germany's U-boat force during the crucial years
of WWII. Doenitz was an odd character. Cold-blooded as hell it seemed to
me because he made no mention of the death of his son-in-law in a U-boat
in his memoirs. What he did mention, and in some detail, too, was the
'Laconia' incident in which a U-boat torpedoed a troopship loaded to the
gunwales with axis PoWs. The situation was, according to KD, so
desperate that a senior German U-boat commander used an international
distress frequency to request, in effect, a temporary cessation of
hostilities to mount a rescue operation.
I've not heard the radio play for nearly thirty years, I'm not even
certain I have a tape recording or even a copy of script. Every now and
then I fill a skip with inconsequential dross. I've got a BBC list of my
'not in archive' programmes somewhere. If I bestirred myself to look it,
I'm pretty sure that the BBC have lost it, too.
So, for the novel I fictionalised everything, not mentioning the Laconia
incident and I even got the Bundesarchiv to give me a U-boat whose
number was never assigned: U-395. My story focussed on a U-boat towing
a lifeboat crammed with survivors from South American waters to Brest
ââ this was the eye-catching centrepiece of the so-called Laconia
incident.
Some years later I toyed with the idea of a novel version of my radio
play. I wrote a synopsis that went to my editor. She loved it and, if
memory serves, I think it was she who came up with the brilliantly
punchy new title.
Radio plays are ephemeral entities. Their job is to entertain for an
hour or so. They are broadcast one day and forgotten in a week and,
unlike TV programmes, unlikely to be home recorded. They are mayflies of
the airwaves.
Books are far from ephemeral. The conscientious author of a historical
novel will have sufficient regard for his public to do some spadework to
get a few basic facts right. With a brief to write around 120,000 words,
I needed to open up the story. A 90 minute radio play can be sustained
with a narrative thrust that's focussed on a maritime rescue but it's
not enough for a 120K word novel.
I was in strong position to do some serious digging in the search for
another angle because, with my documentary series 'The War in Secret'
and 'The War Being the Wire', together with my early radio play 'The
U-boat that Lost Its Nerve' [1], and my novel 'Churchill's Gold', I'd
carved myself a profitable little niche on U-boat matters. I had a large
library and had built up a circle of generous contacts who were experts
in the field.
One of whom was a historian I had the good fortune to meet during my
long hours in the London Library. He was an irascible rascal: a
controversial German-speaking historian with a wicked sense of humour
who gave generously of his time in guiding me through the quirky
labyrinths of the Bundesarchiv and translating documents for me.
Another great guy who provided unstinting help was the naval historian,
Donald MacIntyre. I used to visit him at his lovely home in Little
Chart, Kent. His knowledge of U-boats was astonishing. If memory serves,
he sank seven of them during WWII. Mostly by ramming. He sank Otto
Kretchmerâs U-99 and took him prisoner.
What interested me about the Laconia affair was whether or not the
appeal by a senior Kriegsmarine officer to the allies to suspend
hostilities during the rescue operation carried the weight of the OKM
ââ the German navyâs high command. The historians I sounded out on
this were of the opinion that it did because the appeal was broadcast on
an international frequency by a senior Kriegsmarine officer and was
never rescinded by the OKM. Not that that did Doenitz much good during
his trial at Nuremberg and the signal was ignored anyway.
With that question out of the way, the next one was: who wouldâve been
the most likely person in Britain to take the decision to ignore the
signal and to go on kicking the crap out of U-boats at every
opportunity? The historians were unequivocal on this point. The very
strong likelihood was that all senior naval officers, including the
various c-in-cs and the general staff wouldâve deemed it inappropriate
to act without referring the matter to the war office. And that meant to
Churchill because he took a keen interest in the minutiae of all U-boat
matters. He once observed that the only thing that really frightened him
during WWII was the U-boat menace. So, based on sound reasoning, I went
ahead in the novel and worked much intrigue and politicking into an
early draft of the novel.
I was far from happy with the result. The politicking in Berlin and
London was all too long on chat and conjecture and short on action. I
racked my brains for inspiration in some desperation because I was
seriously considering abandoning âThose in Perilâ altogether.
I think it was my agent who suggested that I read the original Radio 4
typescript again. Amazingly, the agency had a copy. I did so and the
answer was there in a single throw-away line by a character who observed
that the OKM were keeping a close watch on sailings from Brazilian
waters in the hope of preventing the British getting their hands on
top-quality Brazilian quartz crystals which were a vital component in
the manufacture of oscillators for use in Asdic sets. The oscillators
were the pingerâs.
I realised that I had what Alfred Hitchcock referred to as
âMcGuffinsâ. They could be anything. A little gadget or a drawing
ââ anything ââ it didnât matter what so long as they drove the
characters in the story frantic to get their hands on them. I wanted my
McGuffin to have a definite purpose ââ a tangible dimension. My
knowledge of sonar was zilt. By that happy serendipity that bless some
writers from time to time, my neighbour was Frank Pierce a wartime
boffin who copped an OBE for his pioneering work on Asdic. Even more
fortuitous: his former boss, Jock Anderson (a pioneer of centimetric
radar) lived only about four miles from me in Haslemere. With the
invaluable of those two experts I was able to create a most convincing
McGuffin imaginable: a small sack of quartz crystals. It enabled me to
rework the book completely, losing all the London-Berlin cutaways. There
was enough meat on my McGuffin to focus about 90 per cent of story on
the battle with the Atlantic.
The result was âThose in Perilâ as it is today. A novel that has
come a long way from itâs Radio 4 beginnings. It has been translated
into several languages, gone through several reprints, and become what
Leon Griffith would call âa nice little earnerâ.
That ought to be end of the story but itâs not. Recently my backlist
of titles has attracted the eager interest of film companies looking for
non-theatrical release material. One company in particular were quite
taken with âThose in Perilâ but a little worried that five hours of
heaving Atlantic would hit boredom thresholds. I suggested my discarded
politicking scenes and produced a bible with it worked into the plot.
The joys of cut and paste! They were delighted. Just what they wanted.
When I suggested that much of the material in the miniseries of âThose
in Perilâ could be used as background filler sequences in a low budget
âIndictment at Nurembergâ movie I thought they were going to fall on
my neck in glee.
Iâm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
[1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
23 years later an American film company came up with a
bastardised version of much the same story which they called
'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
--
James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
Power Corp are to make a movie of James Follett's ICE.
http://scripts.digicc.com/powtv/prog_synopsis.php?id=655
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 14:59:47 +0000
author: JF
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"JF" wrote in message
news:QHGP7QFj9tSHFwEW@marage.demon.co.uk...
>
> My novel 'Those in Peril' started out its chequered life as a Saturday
> Night Theatre radio play with the ponderous title: 'The Long, Lonely
> Voyage of U-395'. It was first broadcast in 1980, produced by the late
> Glyn Dearman, and starred Peter Ustinov's lovely daughter, Tammy.
>
> As with many of my stories, the idea came from a seemingly
> inconsequential footnote in history: Karl Doenitz's memoirs. He was the
> flag officer commanding Germany's U-boat force during the crucial years
> of WWII. Doenitz was an odd character. Cold-blooded as hell it seemed to
> me because he made no mention of the death of his son-in-law in a U-boat
> in his memoirs. What he did mention, and in some detail, too, was the
> 'Laconia' incident in which a U-boat torpedoed a troopship loaded to the
> gunwales with axis PoWs. The situation was, according to KD, so
> desperate that a senior German U-boat commander used an international
> distress frequency to request, in effect, a temporary cessation of
> hostilities to mount a rescue operation.
>
> I've not heard the radio play for nearly thirty years, I'm not even
> certain I have a tape recording or even a copy of script. Every now and
> then I fill a skip with inconsequential dross. I've got a BBC list of my
> 'not in archive' programmes somewhere. If I bestirred myself to look it,
> I'm pretty sure that the BBC have lost it, too.
>
> So, for the novel I fictionalised everything, not mentioning the Laconia
> incident and I even got the Bundesarchiv to give me a U-boat whose
> number was never assigned: U-395. My story focussed on a U-boat towing
> a lifeboat crammed with survivors from South American waters to Brest
> -- this was the eye-catching centrepiece of the so-called Laconia
> incident.
>
> Some years later I toyed with the idea of a novel version of my radio
> play. I wrote a synopsis that went to my editor. She loved it and, if
> memory serves, I think it was she who came up with the brilliantly
> punchy new title.
>
> Radio plays are ephemeral entities. Their job is to entertain for an
> hour or so. They are broadcast one day and forgotten in a week and,
> unlike TV programmes, unlikely to be home recorded. They are mayflies of
> the airwaves.
>
> Books are far from ephemeral. The conscientious author of a historical
> novel will have sufficient regard for his public to do some spadework to
> get a few basic facts right. With a brief to write around 120,000 words,
> I needed to open up the story. A 90 minute radio play can be sustained
> with a narrative thrust that's focussed on a maritime rescue but it's
> not enough for a 120K word novel.
>
> I was in strong position to do some serious digging in the search for
> another angle because, with my documentary series 'The War in Secret'
> and 'The War Being the Wire', together with my early radio play 'The
> U-boat that Lost Its Nerve' [1], and my novel 'Churchill's Gold', I'd
> carved myself a profitable little niche on U-boat matters. I had a large
> library and had built up a circle of generous contacts who were experts
> in the field.
>
> One of whom was a historian I had the good fortune to meet during my
> long hours in the London Library. He was an irascible rascal: a
> controversial German-speaking historian with a wicked sense of humour
> who gave generously of his time in guiding me through the quirky
> labyrinths of the Bundesarchiv and translating documents for me.
>
> Another great guy who provided unstinting help was the naval historian,
> Donald MacIntyre. I used to visit him at his lovely home in Little
> Chart, Kent. His knowledge of U-boats was astonishing. If memory serves,
> he sank seven of them during WWII. Mostly by ramming. He sank Otto
> Kretchmer's U-99 and took him prisoner.
>
> What interested me about the Laconia affair was whether or not the
> appeal by a senior Kriegsmarine officer to the allies to suspend
> hostilities during the rescue operation carried the weight of the OKM
> -- the German navy's high command. The historians I sounded out on
> this were of the opinion that it did because the appeal was broadcast on
> an international frequency by a senior Kriegsmarine officer and was
> never rescinded by the OKM. Not that that did Doenitz much good during
> his trial at Nuremberg and the signal was ignored anyway.
>
> With that question out of the way, the next one was: who would've been
> the most likely person in Britain to take the decision to ignore the
> signal and to go on kicking the crap out of U-boats at every
> opportunity? The historians were unequivocal on this point. The very
> strong likelihood was that all senior naval officers, including the
> various c-in-cs and the general staff would've deemed it inappropriate
> to act without referring the matter to the war office. And that meant to
> Churchill because he took a keen interest in the minutiae of all U-boat
> matters. He once observed that the only thing that really frightened him
> during WWII was the U-boat menace. So, based on sound reasoning, I went
> ahead in the novel and worked much intrigue and politicking into an
> early draft of the novel.
>
> I was far from happy with the result. The politicking in Berlin and
> London was all too long on chat and conjecture and short on action. I
> racked my brains for inspiration in some desperation because I was
> seriously considering abandoning 'Those in Peril' altogether.
>
> I think it was my agent who suggested that I read the original Radio 4
> typescript again. Amazingly, the agency had a copy. I did so and the
> answer was there in a single throw-away line by a character who observed
> that the OKM were keeping a close watch on sailings from Brazilian
> waters in the hope of preventing the British getting their hands on
> top-quality Brazilian quartz crystals which were a vital component in
> the manufacture of oscillators for use in Asdic sets. The oscillators
> were the pinger's.
>
> I realised that I had what Alfred Hitchcock referred to as
> 'McGuffins'. They could be anything. A little gadget or a drawing
> -- anything -- it didn't matter what so long as they drove the
> characters in the story frantic to get their hands on them. I wanted my
> McGuffin to have a definite purpose -- a tangible dimension. My
> knowledge of sonar was zilt. By that happy serendipity that bless some
> writers from time to time, my neighbour was Frank Pierce a wartime
> boffin who copped an OBE for his pioneering work on Asdic. Even more
> fortuitous: his former boss, Jock Anderson (a pioneer of centimetric
> radar) lived only about four miles from me in Haslemere. With the
> invaluable of those two experts I was able to create a most convincing
> McGuffin imaginable: a small sack of quartz crystals. It enabled me to
> rework the book completely, losing all the London-Berlin cutaways. There
> was enough meat on my McGuffin to focus about 90 per cent of story on
> the battle with the Atlantic.
>
> The result was 'Those in Peril' as it is today. A novel that has
> come a long way from it's Radio 4 beginnings. It has been translated
> into several languages, gone through several reprints, and become what
> Leon Griffith would call 'a nice little earner'.
>
> That ought to be end of the story but it's not. Recently my backlist
> of titles has attracted the eager interest of film companies looking for
> non-theatrical release material. One company in particular were quite
> taken with 'Those in Peril' but a little worried that five hours of
> heaving Atlantic would hit boredom thresholds. I suggested my discarded
> politicking scenes and produced a bible with it worked into the plot.
> The joys of cut and paste! They were delighted. Just what they wanted.
>
> When I suggested that much of the material in the miniseries of 'Those
> in Peril' could be used as background filler sequences in a low budget
> 'Indictment at Nuremberg' movie I thought they were going to fall on
> my neck in glee.
>
> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>
> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>
> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>
> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>
> --
> James Follett. Novelist. (G1LXP) http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
> Power Corp are to make a movie of James Follett's ICE.
> http://scripts.digicc.com/powtv/prog_synopsis.php?id=655
>
You are wriggling and squirming again Follett. You posted the following
about your novel "Those In Peril" and it does not tally with your above
account. Once more you are attempting to muddy the waters to cover what were
first probably errors, then after you could not bring yourself to admit to
being error prone, they are now classified as lies.
Follett's claim about his novel "Those In Peril" follows verbatim:
=============================
"It darn near didn't get written. That it was based on a true event was
its great selling feature. Trouble is I couldn't find any record that
Donitz had appealed to Churchill on humanitarian grounds to leave the
U-boats alone. The only reference I was able to track down at the time
(around 1991) was a mention in Karl Donitz's autobiography. That wasn't
enough for the publisher. Naval Historical Branch, Public records,
Churchill's papers -- all drew a blank. Here was a great story, likely
to be dead in the water because I couldn't back it up.
A generous but controversial German-speaking historian came to the
rescue. He pointed out that in the 1950s loyal weeders, private and
public, had gone through all records and submitted to Churchill lists of
those records that could show him in an unfavourable light. Churchill
sanctioned the removal of many records -- not all because his sense of
humour wouldn't permit it (such as the Milton Byran flames about his
supposed alcohol excesses!). Nevertheless, many vital papers had
disappeared. My historian colleague suggested approaching the
Bundesarchiv in Freiberg and even wrote a letter to them because he was
on good terms with them. Freiberg turned up trumps: a motherlode of
material including copies of all signals between OKM and the RN via the
Red Cross that confirmed Donitz's claim.
After several months of hard graft and running up huge London Library
freight charges, the book was green lighted. That's why I counsel other
researchers with great caution when dealing with Churchill."
====================================
Some posters tried to discuss Follett's claims with him but as per his usual
style he simply ignored the pertinent point which did not tally with his
claims. Her are some of the remarks/questions posted to James Follett
following his claims concerning his novel "Those In Peril":
When asked to supply a reference to exactly what he was talking about he
posted this link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2...126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
That points to a well known incident in the South Atlantic during WWII
involving the sinking of the "Atlantis", a German armed auxiliary cruiser.
Some of the happenings in his book "Those In Peril", such as a u-boat
Captain being stranded on the auxiliary cruiser when the British attacked,
are obviously from the true incident and there is no harm in that. Many
excellent novels have been later written about true incidents.
Follett's claim that Doenitz appealed to Churchill to "leave the u-boats
alone" because they were busy rescuing sailors of the Kriegsmarine is simply
beyond belief and no mention of it appears anywhere in Doenitz's memoirs.
When challenged on this, he tried to point readers to a completely different
incident which *was* mentioned in Doenitz's book, the "Laconia" incident
which was quite a different affair as that involved civilians, POWs and
others who had nothing to do with the German navy, apart from having been
sunk by a u-boat.
When he first posted that link this reply was posted to him:
"Thanks for the link. I had read the story of Bauer, U-126's captain being
left on the raider when the "Devonshire" attacked but the story of Doenitz
asking free passage for his U-boats carrying survivors does not add up. Why
would the British government be expected to grant a safe passage to
submarine(s) towing 300 German sailors? If there had been many civilians
amongst the survivor as in the case of the "Laconia" I can readily
understand such a request. If Doenitz was looking at the humanitarian side
for his 300 sailors why did he not instruct his U-boat commanders to appeal
for their rescue? That may have made more sense to an opposing country at
war with the appellant; if Britain had rescued the German sailors they would
have become POWs, but to let the U-boats carry them off to freedom in order
to fight another day does not make sense. No wonder the request was ignored,
if it did in fact happen. Unfortunately I loaned out my copy of Doenitz's
memoirs years ago and I'll have to try and remember just who has it."
He did not answer that post. I suspect he got himself in a muddle with the
facts about the "Laconia" incident and the "Atlantis" incident but why he
should claim to have seen "a motherlode of material including copies of all
signals between OKM and the RN via the Red Cross that confirmed Donitz's
claim", only he can explain. Especially as there is no such claim in
Doenitz's book.
============================================
James Follett has yet to answer the most serious charge:
James Follett claimed that Doenitz appealed to Churchill to "leave the
u-boats alone" because they were busy rescuing sailors of the Kriegsmarine.
There is not a single reference in Doenitz's memoirs - despite Follett's
claim - that such an appeal was ever made. Why should Follett claim to have
seen "a motherlode of material including copies of all signals between OKM
and the RN via the Red Cross that confirmed Donitz's claim"? There is no
such claim in Doenitz's book and Follett appears to have invented the whole
scenario in an attempt to prove his book was "important".
He made the foolish claim during newsgroup posts on the subject but even he
should have realised that such serious claims would be checked out. Now he
refuses to admit his mistake and his mistake has been compounded into a lie
by his long refusal to acknowledge his error.
James Follet is either a fool, a revisionist or, more likely, just a nasty
little shit who has always had a down on Churchill and the Royal Navy. The
Royal Navy was my life and Churchill is my hero. I will not let this go.
("Up with this I will not put!")
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 15:51:53 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>
> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>
> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>
> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>
> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
like your u boat is coming in
G
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:01:53 -0000
author: GMK
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"GMK" wrote in message
news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>
>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>
>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>
>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>
>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
> like your u boat is coming in
> G
>
With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist, in my
opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories out of thin
air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the like, also in my
opinion. His ongoing lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the sinking of
the "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic WWII) deserve to
be challenged at every opportunity. His novel concerning those same events,
"Those In Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason for
making these claims? Why does he lie?
Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and unfounded
claims?
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:39:03 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>
> "GMK" wrote in message
> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>
>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>>
>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>
>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>
>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>> like your u boat is coming in
>> G
>>
>
> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist, in
> my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories out of
> thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the like, also in
> my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the
> sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic
> WWII) deserve to be challenged at every opportunity. His novel concerning
> those same events, "Those In Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>
> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason
> for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>
> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
> unfounded claims?
>
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:45:55 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"BrianE" wrote in message
news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
> In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
> light@under_bushel.eu says...
>>
> ..
>
> --
> thar's gold in them thar hills..
Brian,
A section order has just been signed for you.
Can you tell us where you are please, Brian?
You're not going to harm yourself are you, Brian?
If you think you are going to harm yourself, Brian, well do let us know and
we shall try to get one, or maybe two, if they are free, Community SO's to
you, Brian.
Can you hear me, Brian?
Can you hear me, Brian??????
CAN YOU FUCKING HEAR ME KUNT FACE, BRIAN?????//??
Oh, go fucking kill yourself. See if I care.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:23:27 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In article <jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
light@under_bushel.eu says...
>
> "BrianE" wrote in message
> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
> > In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
> >>
> > ..
> >
> > --
> > thar's gold in them thar hills..
>
> Brian,
>
> A section order has just been signed for you.
Within 15 minutes of my last 'reply'?
I was kinda hoping you crossposting numpties would disappear if I
removed Surrey from the list of ngs.
Seems I was wrong.
So.. how was school today?
--
thar's gold in them thar hills..
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:35:51 -0000
author: BrianE
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"BrianE" wrote in message
news:MPG.21b5143e2bee00149896c9@news.motzarella.org...
> In article <jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
> light@under_bushel.eu says...
>>
>> "BrianE" wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
>> > In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
>> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
>> >>
>> > ..
>> >
>> > --
>> > thar's gold in them thar hills..
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> A section order has just been signed for you.
>
> Within 15 minutes of my last 'reply'?
>
> I was kinda hoping you crossposting numpties would disappear if I
> removed Surrey from the list of ngs.
>
> Seems I was wrong.
>
> So.. how was school today?
When did your interest in schoolboys begin, Brian?
Was it before or after you read Neil's account of his doorstep encounter
with a neatly dressed boy?
This could prove most valid to your upcoming defence.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 17:41:29 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>
> "GMK" wrote in message
> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>
>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>>
>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>
>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>
>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>> like your u boat is coming in
>> G
>>
>
> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist, in
> my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories out of
> thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the like, also in
> my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the
> sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic
> WWII) deserve to be challenged at every opportunity. His novel concerning
> those same events, "Those In Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>
> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason
> for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>
> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
> unfounded claims?
>
Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is a bit
naive.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:03:05 -0000
author: The DA
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"The DA" wrote in message
news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>
> "Jim Way" wrote in message
> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>
>> "GMK" wrote in message
>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>
>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson off
>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase and
>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted in
>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled 'U-570'
>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>
>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>
>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>> G
>>>
>>
>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist, in
>> my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories out of
>> thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the like, also in
>> my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the
>> sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic
>> WWII) deserve to be challenged at every opportunity. His novel concerning
>> those same events, "Those In Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>>
>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
>> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason
>> for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>
>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
>> unfounded claims?
>>
>
> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is a
> bit naive.
I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing footsie, in a
little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when he made extremely
serious and unwarranted allegations against Winston Churchill and the Royal
Navy.
He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
He failed to respond.
Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete with a
rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James Follett in a
better light.
Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this affair knows
what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling and squirming. Again.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:24:02 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:6bE2j.93942$392.65854@fe09.news.easynews.com...
>
> "The DA" wrote in message
> news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>>
>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> "GMK" wrote in message
>>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have to
>>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson
>>>>> off
>>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase
>>>>> and
>>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted
>>>>> in
>>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled
>>>>> 'U-570'
>>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>>
>>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in the
>>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>>
>>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>>> G
>>>>
>>>
>>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist, in
>>> my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories out
>>> of thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the like,
>>> also in my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and
>>> the sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South
>>> Atlantic WWII) deserve to be challenged at every opportunity. His novel
>>> concerning those same events, "Those In Peril" was a rather good sea
>>> yarn.
>>>
>>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
>>> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason
>>> for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>>
>>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
>>> unfounded claims?
>>>
>>
>> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is a
>> bit naive.
>
> I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
>
> I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing footsie, in
> a little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when he made extremely
> serious and unwarranted allegations against Winston Churchill and the
> Royal Navy.
>
> He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
>
> He failed to respond.
>
> Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete with a
> rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James Follett in a
> better light.
>
> Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this affair
> knows what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling and squirming.
> Again.
>
Sorry I posted.
I'm afaid the hounding of JF smacks a little of a witch-hunt. Why are you
all so determined to get him to admt to telling porkies? Will it make you
feel any better? GAL.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 18:28:58 -0000
author: The DA
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"The DA" wrote in message
news:daKdnUMwrvvwjdbaRVnyhQA@bt.com...
>
> "Jim Way" wrote in message
> news:6bE2j.93942$392.65854@fe09.news.easynews.com...
>>
>> "The DA" wrote in message
>> news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>>> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "GMK" wrote in message
>>>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have
>>>>> to
>>>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of U-570 --
>>>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>>>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled
>>>>>> 'U-570'
>>>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>>>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>>>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>>>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>>>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>>>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>>>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available on:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>>>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>>>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>>>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>>>> G
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist,
>>>> in my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories
>>>> out of thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the
>>>> like, also in my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning
>>>> Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German
>>>> auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic WWII) deserve to be challenged at
>>>> every opportunity. His novel concerning those same events, "Those In
>>>> Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>>>>
>>>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>>>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
>>>> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the reason
>>>> for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>>>
>>>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
>>>> unfounded claims?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is a
>>> bit naive.
>>
>> I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
>>
>> I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing footsie, in
>> a little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when he made extremely
>> serious and unwarranted allegations against Winston Churchill and the
>> Royal Navy.
>>
>> He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
>>
>> He failed to respond.
>>
>> Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete with a
>> rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James Follett in a
>> better light.
>>
>> Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this affair
>> knows what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling and squirming.
>> Again.
>>
> Sorry I posted.
>
> I'm afaid the hounding of JF smacks a little of a witch-hunt. Why are you
> all so determined to get him to admt to telling porkies? Will it make you
> feel any better? GAL.
Another poster said earlier today if JF said it, that is OK with me. Think
about it.
I am not hounding James Follett. I am repeatedly requesting that James
Follett corrects, or withdraws, or remembers, or whatever you want to call
it, a single factual point which he has claimed in past posts:
Follett's claim was that following the sinking of the German auxiliary
cruiser "Atlantis", Doenitz apparently appealed to Churchill to not
interfere with the U-boats attempts to rescue any survivors. As was pointed
out to Follett at the time, war does not stop for survivors and to expect a
belligerent nation to call a truce in order to let fighting men be rescued
is just simply so way out of this world that one may wonder at the sanity of
the person who suggested it. In this case it is definitely Follett's sanity
which must be questioned for despite his oft repeated claims, there is *NO*
mention in Doenitz's memoirs of any appeal to the allies following the
"Atlantis" incident.
There *is* a mention in Doenitz's memoirs of the "Laconia" incident and the
very dishonourable parts played by certain Allied forces during that, but
when asked was he in fact referring to the "Laconia" incident Follett came
back with a plain "No" and he posted this URL to show what he was talking
about:
"james" wrote in message
news:6kngcrADKgUFFwKg@marage.demon.co.uk...
> X-No-Archive: yes
> In message <Ehi4h.627808$Pi2.596...@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Cecil B
> writes
>>I've read quite a bit about the "Laconia" but I see that is a brand new
>>survivor's story. I'll see if my library can get it for me. When I said "I
>>wish I knew more" I was meaning more about the incident James based his
>>story on. It seems there may be no details of that anywhere except in the
>>German archives he referred to.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2...
> 126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
====================
That was Follett's post to a reference which "James based his story on."
Make of that what you will.
That link, posted by James Follett as a definite reference to his book
"Those In Peril" tells the story of certain battles in the South Atlantic,
battles on which James Follett's book "Those In Peril" is obviously based,
and there is absolutely no harm in that. I have read many novels based on
historical events.
The harm comes when James Follett claims he is privy to inside information
which shows the Allies, and Winston Churchill in particular, with the Royal
Navy as a bystander, to be "guilty" of refusing to listen to "humanitarian"
[Follett's word] pleas from Doenitz which James Follett claimed he had read
and seen as "mention[s] in Karl Donitz's autobiography".
Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
makes no such claim in his book. Read it from beginning to end; there is a
reference to the Kriegsmarine problems in the South Atlantic but there is
not a single claim, word, mention or anything else that "Donitz had appealed
to Churchill on humanitarian grounds to leave the U-boats alone."
James Follett is a liar.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:35:24 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In article <dzD2j.95867$HY1.11451@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
light@under_bushel.eu says...
>
> "BrianE" wrote in message
> news:MPG.21b5143e2bee00149896c9@news.motzarella.org...
> > In article <jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
> >>
> >> "BrianE" wrote in message
> >> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
> >> > In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
> >> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
> >> >>
> >> > ..
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > thar's gold in them thar hills..
> >>
> >> Brian,
> >>
> >> A section order has just been signed for you.
> >
> > Within 15 minutes of my last 'reply'?
> >
> > I was kinda hoping you crossposting numpties would disappear if I
> > removed Surrey from the list of ngs.
> >
> > Seems I was wrong.
> >
> > So.. how was school today?
>
> When did your interest in schoolboys begin, Brian?
Oh dear..
--
Thar's gold in them thar hills
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:17:38 -0000
author: BrianE
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>
> "The DA" wrote in message
> news:daKdnUMwrvvwjdbaRVnyhQA@bt.com...
>>
>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>> news:6bE2j.93942$392.65854@fe09.news.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> "The DA" wrote in message
>>> news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>>>> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "GMK" wrote in message
>>>>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of
>>>>>>> U-570 --
>>>>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>>>>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled
>>>>>>> 'U-570'
>>>>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>>>>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>>>>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>>>>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>>>>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>>>>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>>>>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available
>>>>>>> on:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>>>>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>>>>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>>>>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>>>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>>>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>>>>> G
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist,
>>>>> in my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories
>>>>> out of thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the
>>>>> like, also in my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning
>>>>> Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German
>>>>> auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic WWII) deserve to be challenged at
>>>>> every opportunity. His novel concerning those same events, "Those In
>>>>> Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>>>>>
>>>>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>>>>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
>>>>> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the
>>>>> reason for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
>>>>> unfounded claims?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is
>>>> a bit naive.
>>>
>>> I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
>>>
>>> I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing footsie,
>>> in a little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when he made
>>> extremely serious and unwarranted allegations against Winston Churchill
>>> and the Royal Navy.
>>>
>>> He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
>>>
>>> He failed to respond.
>>>
>>> Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete with a
>>> rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James Follett in a
>>> better light.
>>>
>>> Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this affair
>>> knows what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling and squirming.
>>> Again.
>>>
>> Sorry I posted.
>>
>> I'm afaid the hounding of JF smacks a little of a witch-hunt. Why are
>> you all so determined to get him to admt to telling porkies? Will it
>> make you feel any better? GAL.
>
> Another poster said earlier today if JF said it, that is OK with me. Think
> about it.
>
> I am not hounding James Follett. I am repeatedly requesting that James
> Follett corrects, or withdraws, or remembers, or whatever you want to call
> it, a single factual point which he has claimed in past posts:
>
> Follett's claim was that following the sinking of the German auxiliary
> cruiser "Atlantis", Doenitz apparently appealed to Churchill to not
> interfere with the U-boats attempts to rescue any survivors. As was
> pointed out to Follett at the time, war does not stop for survivors and to
> expect a belligerent nation to call a truce in order to let fighting men
> be rescued is just simply so way out of this world that one may wonder at
> the sanity of the person who suggested it. In this case it is definitely
> Follett's sanity which must be questioned for despite his oft repeated
> claims, there is *NO* mention in Doenitz's memoirs of any appeal to the
> allies following the "Atlantis" incident.
>
> There *is* a mention in Doenitz's memoirs of the "Laconia" incident and
> the very dishonourable parts played by certain Allied forces during that,
> but when asked was he in fact referring to the "Laconia" incident Follett
> came back with a plain "No" and he posted this URL to show what he was
> talking about:
>
>
> "james" wrote in message
>
> news:6kngcrADKgUFFwKg@marage.demon.co.uk...
>
>> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>> In message <Ehi4h.627808$Pi2.596...@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Cecil B
>> writes
>
>>>I've read quite a bit about the "Laconia" but I see that is a brand new
>>>survivor's story. I'll see if my library can get it for me. When I said
>>>"I wish I knew more" I was meaning more about the incident James based
>>>his story on. It seems there may be no details of that anywhere except in
>>>the German archives he referred to.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2...
>> 126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
> ====================
>
> That was Follett's post to a reference which "James based his story on."
> Make of that what you will.
>
> That link, posted by James Follett as a definite reference to his book
> "Those In Peril" tells the story of certain battles in the South
> Atlantic, battles on which James Follett's book "Those In Peril" is
> obviously based, and there is absolutely no harm in that. I have read many
> novels based on historical events.
>
> The harm comes when James Follett claims he is privy to inside information
> which shows the Allies, and Winston Churchill in particular, with the
> Royal Navy as a bystander, to be "guilty" of refusing to listen to
> "humanitarian" [Follett's word] pleas from Doenitz which James Follett
> claimed he had read and seen as "mention[s] in Karl Donitz's
> autobiography".
>
> Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
> makes no such claim in his book. Read it from beginning to end; there is a
> reference to the Kriegsmarine problems in the South Atlantic but there is
> not a single claim, word, mention or anything else that "Donitz had
> appealed to Churchill on humanitarian grounds to leave the U-boats alone."
>
> James Follett is a liar.
Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely impossible for
you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be getting a whiff of this?)
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:47:22 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>
> "The DA" wrote in message
> news:daKdnUMwrvvwjdbaRVnyhQA@bt.com...
>>
>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>> news:6bE2j.93942$392.65854@fe09.news.easynews.com...
>>>
>>> "The DA" wrote in message
>>> news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>
>>>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>>>> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "GMK" wrote in message
>>>>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I have
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of
>>>>>>> U-570 --
>>>>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command Hudson
>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the cloudbase
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play resulted
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema Arts
>>>>>>> International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay entitled
>>>>>>> 'U-570'
>>>>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they called
>>>>>>> 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so shift they
>>>>>>> shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that resulted in
>>>>>>> questions beginning raised in parliament in 2000. I was
>>>>>>> sufficient incensed by the liberties that the filmmakers had
>>>>>>> taken to write an article about the fraud for the Daily Mail.
>>>>>>> The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies and Hollywood' is available
>>>>>>> on:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with basic
>>>>>>> facts even to the extent of having Americans play a part in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII was
>>>>>>> unforgivable. The only American involvement in the capture of
>>>>>>> U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>>>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>>>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>>>>> G
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good novelist,
>>>>> in my opinion, but also is an out and out liar, creating tall stories
>>>>> out of thin air and "backing them up" with secret archives and the
>>>>> like, also in my opinion. His ongoing lies concerning
>>>>> Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the sinking of the "Atlantis" (a German
>>>>> auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic WWII) deserve to be challenged at
>>>>> every opportunity. His novel concerning those same events, "Those In
>>>>> Peril" was a rather good sea yarn.
>>>>>
>>>>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>>>>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best" deserve
>>>>> exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What is the
>>>>> reason for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>>>>
>>>>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious and
>>>>> unfounded claims?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh.... stories is
>>>> a bit naive.
>>>
>>> I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
>>>
>>> I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing footsie,
>>> in a little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when he made
>>> extremely serious and unwarranted allegations against Winston Churchill
>>> and the Royal Navy.
>>>
>>> He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
>>>
>>> He failed to respond.
>>>
>>> Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete with a
>>> rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James Follett in a
>>> better light.
>>>
>>> Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this affair
>>> knows what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling and squirming.
>>> Again.
>>>
>> Sorry I posted.
>>
>> I'm afaid the hounding of JF smacks a little of a witch-hunt. Why are
>> you all so determined to get him to admt to telling porkies? Will it
>> make you feel any better? GAL.
>
> Another poster said earlier today if JF said it, that is OK with me. Think
> about it.
>
> I am not hounding James Follett. I am repeatedly requesting that James
> Follett corrects, or withdraws, or remembers, or whatever you want to call
> it, a single factual point which he has claimed in past posts:
>
> Follett's claim was that following the sinking of the German auxiliary
> cruiser "Atlantis", Doenitz apparently appealed to Churchill to not
> interfere with the U-boats attempts to rescue any survivors. As was
> pointed out to Follett at the time, war does not stop for survivors and to
> expect a belligerent nation to call a truce in order to let fighting men
> be rescued is just simply so way out of this world that one may wonder at
> the sanity of the person who suggested it. In this case it is definitely
> Follett's sanity which must be questioned for despite his oft repeated
> claims, there is *NO* mention in Doenitz's memoirs of any appeal to the
> allies following the "Atlantis" incident.
>
> There *is* a mention in Doenitz's memoirs of the "Laconia" incident and
> the very dishonourable parts played by certain Allied forces during that,
> but when asked was he in fact referring to the "Laconia" incident Follett
> came back with a plain "No" and he posted this URL to show what he was
> talking about:
>
>
> "james" wrote in message
>
> news:6kngcrADKgUFFwKg@marage.demon.co.uk...
>
>> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>> In message <Ehi4h.627808$Pi2.596...@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Cecil B
>> writes
>
>>>I've read quite a bit about the "Laconia" but I see that is a brand new
>>>survivor's story. I'll see if my library can get it for me. When I said
>>>"I wish I knew more" I was meaning more about the incident James based
>>>his story on. It seems there may be no details of that anywhere except in
>>>the German archives he referred to.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2...
>> 126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
> ====================
>
> That was Follett's post to a reference which "James based his story on."
> Make of that what you will.
>
> That link, posted by James Follett as a definite reference to his book
> "Those In Peril" tells the story of certain battles in the South
> Atlantic, battles on which James Follett's book "Those In Peril" is
> obviously based, and there is absolutely no harm in that. I have read many
> novels based on historical events.
>
> The harm comes when James Follett claims he is privy to inside information
> which shows the Allies, and Winston Churchill in particular, with the
> Royal Navy as a bystander, to be "guilty" of refusing to listen to
> "humanitarian" [Follett's word] pleas from Doenitz which James Follett
> claimed he had read and seen as "mention[s] in Karl Donitz's
> autobiography".
>
> Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
> makes no such claim in his book. Read it from beginning to end; there is a
> reference to the Kriegsmarine problems in the South Atlantic but there is
> not a single claim, word, mention or anything else that "Donitz had
> appealed to Churchill on humanitarian grounds to leave the U-boats alone."
>
> James Follett is a liar.
Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely impossible for
you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be getting a whiff of this?)
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:47:23 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In message <f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com>, Jim Way
writes
>
>Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
>makes no such claim in his book.
He's wrong. It's there. Wim's comprehension of plain English is dubious.
I recently had to explain to him the difference between past tense and
present tense. His lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a
liar on that occasion, too.
This the last time I'll reply to his claims. He had a chance to make
them to my publisher's lawyers and he bottled out. No surprises there.
Anomymous poison pen letter writers are not noted for their courage. Go
back to your silly cross-posting hysterical vendettas and wishing people
dead, Wim. I look upon your views with contempt. They are of no interest
to me and will elicit no further responses from me. Send them to Goodman
Merrick or Michael Rubenstein.
--
James Follett
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:57:00 +0000
author: JF
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In message <Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@marage.demon.co.uk>, JF
writes
> His lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a liar on that
>occasion, too.
Rect. Heh heh. Sod it. 'Led to him calling me'.
Must Prooofread I always.
date: Mon, 26 Nov 2007 23:15:05 +0000
author: JF
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
> Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
> impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely impossible for
> you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be getting a whiff of
> this?)
>
LMAO. 'Keep it short,' says you. Why do you insist on re-posting the whole
thread every time?
And it still seems like an anal-retentive's witch-hunt to me.
date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:57:01 -0000
author: The DA
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"JF" wrote in message
news:c9AsVhO5N1SHFwGA@marage.demon.co.uk...
> In message <Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@marage.demon.co.uk>, JF
> writes
>
>> His lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a liar on that
>> occasion, too.
>
> Rect. Heh heh. Sod it. 'Led to him calling me'.
>
> Must Prooofread I always.
Hey, JF, how many extra copies of the book have you sold on the back of all
this controversy? I smell a rat - Jim Way is your sock puppet, isn't he?
date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 07:05:11 -0000
author: The DA
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"The DA" wrote in
news:yYSdnQxRwdpdItbanZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@bt.com:
>
>> Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
>> impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely
>> impossible for you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be
>> getting a whiff of this?)
>>
> LMAO. 'Keep it short,' says you. Why do you insist on re-posting the
> whole thread every time?
>
> And it still seems like an anal-retentive's witch-hunt to me.
>
>
>
Well it would, to a JF fanboi.
--
P
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:39 +0000 (UTC)
author: Phil Kyle
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in
news:thG2j.125234$Eg2.71291@fe06.news.easynews.com:
>
> "Jim Way" wrote in message
> news:f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>
>> "The DA" wrote in message
>> news:daKdnUMwrvvwjdbaRVnyhQA@bt.com...
>>>
>>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>>> news:6bE2j.93942$392.65854@fe09.news.easynews.com...
>>>>
>>>> "The DA" wrote in message
>>>> news:HKadnU_ZuKnGl9banZ2dnUVZ8qeknZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>
>>>>> "Jim Way" wrote in message
>>>>> news:HEC2j.120182$LL1.106305@fe04.news.easynews.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "GMK" wrote in message
>>>>>> news:z_SdncuyU9VpcNfanZ2dnUVZ8s6inZ2d@bt.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "> I'm not going to write the scripts, heaven be praised. All I
>>>>>>> have to
>>>>>>>> do is manage a wry chuckle on the way to the bank.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [1] 'The U-boat That Lost its Nerve' was the story of
>>>>>>>> U-570 --
>>>>>>>> the U-boat that surrendered to an RAF Coastal Command
>>>>>>>> Hudson
>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>> Iceland. The Hudson unsportingly broke through the
>>>>>>>> cloudbase
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> lobbed an anti-submarine bomb at the U-boat. My play
>>>>>>>> resulted
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> a commission from Roy Skeggs of Hammer Films/ Cinema
>>>>>>>> Arts International Ltd in 1977 to write a screenplay
>>>>>>>> entitled
>>>>>>>> 'U-570'
>>>>>>>> 23 years later an American film company came up with a
>>>>>>>> bastardised version of much the same story which they
>>>>>>>> called 'U-571'! They couldn't use the proper title so
>>>>>>>> shift they shifted the number up one! Amazing cheek that
>>>>>>>> resulted in questions beginning raised in parliament in
>>>>>>>> 2000. I was sufficient incensed by the liberties that
>>>>>>>> the filmmakers had taken to write an article about the
>>>>>>>> fraud for the Daily Mail. The text of 'Lies. Damned Lies
>>>>>>>> and Hollywood' is available
>>>>>>>> on:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.jamesfollett.dswilliams.co.uk
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fictionalising a drama is one thing, but messing with
>>>>>>>> basic facts even to the extent of having Americans play
>>>>>>>> a part in
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> capture of a U-boat when they were not involved in WWII
>>>>>>>> was unforgivable. The only American involvement in the
>>>>>>>> capture of U-570 was the manufacturer of the Hudson.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -- Much do you get then |JF ?
>>>>>>> You better not pop your clogs just yet,looks
>>>>>>> like your u boat is coming in
>>>>>>> G
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With a bit of luck he will get SFA. The man is a jolly good
>>>>>> novelist, in my opinion, but also is an out and out liar,
>>>>>> creating tall stories out of thin air and "backing them up" with
>>>>>> secret archives and the like, also in my opinion. His ongoing
>>>>>> lies concerning Churchill/Doenitz/RN and the sinking of the
>>>>>> "Atlantis" (a German auxiliary cruiser, South Atlantic WWII)
>>>>>> deserve to be challenged at every opportunity. His novel
>>>>>> concerning those same events, "Those In Peril" was a rather good
>>>>>> sea yarn.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But then, for Follett to develop some underhand tales of the "non
>>>>>> humanitarian Churchill" and "poor Doenitz, who tried his best"
>>>>>> deserve exposing as the blatant and malicious lies they are. What
>>>>>> is the reason for making these claims? Why does he lie?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just where is Follett coming from when he makes such malicious
>>>>>> and unfounded claims?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sorry, but to criticise a storyteller for telling... uh....
>>>>> stories is a bit naive.
>>>>
>>>> I am not criticising James Follett in any way about his novels.
>>>>
>>>> I am criticising the fact that the man thought he was playing
>>>> footsie, in a little-known and well out of the way newsgroup, when
>>>> he made extremely serious and unwarranted allegations against
>>>> Winston Churchill and the Royal Navy.
>>>>
>>>> He was then challenged on his posted "facts".
>>>>
>>>> He failed to respond.
>>>>
>>>> Today he has decided to try and tell the story again - complete
>>>> with a rejuggling of Follett's Facts - in an attempt to show James
>>>> Follett in a better light.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone who has read Follett's posts from the beginning of this
>>>> affair knows what he is trying to do: James Follett is wriggling
>>>> and squirming. Again.
>>>>
>>> Sorry I posted.
>>>
>>> I'm afaid the hounding of JF smacks a little of a witch-hunt. Why
>>> are you all so determined to get him to admt to telling porkies?
>>> Will it make you feel any better? GAL.
>>
>> Another poster said earlier today if JF said it, that is OK with me.
>> Think about it.
>>
>> I am not hounding James Follett. I am repeatedly requesting that
>> James Follett corrects, or withdraws, or remembers, or whatever you
>> want to call it, a single factual point which he has claimed in past
>> posts:
>>
>> Follett's claim was that following the sinking of the German
>> auxiliary cruiser "Atlantis", Doenitz apparently appealed to
>> Churchill to not interfere with the U-boats attempts to rescue any
>> survivors. As was pointed out to Follett at the time, war does not
>> stop for survivors and to expect a belligerent nation to call a truce
>> in order to let fighting men be rescued is just simply so way out of
>> this world that one may wonder at the sanity of the person who
>> suggested it. In this case it is definitely Follett's sanity which
>> must be questioned for despite his oft repeated claims, there is *NO*
>> mention in Doenitz's memoirs of any appeal to the allies following
>> the "Atlantis" incident.
>>
>> There *is* a mention in Doenitz's memoirs of the "Laconia" incident
>> and the very dishonourable parts played by certain Allied forces
>> during that, but when asked was he in fact referring to the "Laconia"
>> incident Follett came back with a plain "No" and he posted this URL
>> to show what he was talking about:
>>
>>
>> "james" wrote in message
>>
>> news:6kngcrADKgUFFwKg@marage.demon.co.uk...
>>
>>> X-No-Archive: yes
>>
>>> In message <Ehi4h.627808$Pi2.596...@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Cecil B
>>> writes
>>
>>>>I've read quite a bit about the "Laconia" but I see that is a brand
>>>>new survivor's story. I'll see if my library can get it for me. When
>>>>I said "I wish I knew more" I was meaning more about the incident
>>>>James based his story on. It seems there may be no details of that
>>>>anywhere except in the German archives he referred to.
>>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2
>>> ... 126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
>> ====================
>>
>> That was Follett's post to a reference which "James based his story
>> on." Make of that what you will.
>>
>> That link, posted by James Follett as a definite reference to his
>> book "Those In Peril" tells the story of certain battles in the
>> South Atlantic, battles on which James Follett's book "Those In
>> Peril" is obviously based, and there is absolutely no harm in that. I
>> have read many novels based on historical events.
>>
>> The harm comes when James Follett claims he is privy to inside
>> information which shows the Allies, and Winston Churchill in
>> particular, with the Royal Navy as a bystander, to be "guilty" of
>> refusing to listen to "humanitarian" [Follett's word] pleas from
>> Doenitz which James Follett claimed he had read and seen as
>> "mention[s] in Karl Donitz's autobiography".
>>
>> Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett:
>> Doenitz makes no such claim in his book. Read it from beginning to
>> end; there is a reference to the Kriegsmarine problems in the South
>> Atlantic but there is not a single claim, word, mention or anything
>> else that "Donitz had appealed to Churchill on humanitarian grounds
>> to leave the U-boats alone."
>>
>> James Follett is a liar.
>
> Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
> impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely impossible
> for you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be getting a whiff
> of this?)
>
>
>
Meeja? Do tell.
--
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:38 +0000 (UTC)
author: Phil Kyle
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in
news:jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com:
>
> "BrianE" wrote in message
> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
>> In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
>> light@under_bushel.eu says...
>>>
>> ..
>>
>> --
>> thar's gold in them thar hills..
>
> Brian,
>
> A section order has just been signed for you.
>
> Can you tell us where you are please, Brian?
>
> You're not going to harm yourself are you, Brian?
>
> If you think you are going to harm yourself, Brian, well do let us
> know and we shall try to get one, or maybe two, if they are free,
> Community SO's to you, Brian.
>
> Can you hear me, Brian?
>
> Can you hear me, Brian??????
>
> CAN YOU FUCKING HEAR ME KUNT FACE, BRIAN?????//??
>
> Oh, go fucking kill yourself. See if I care.
>
>
>
>
>
Hey, Brian is an unlucky name.
--
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:36 +0000 (UTC)
author: Phil Kyle
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
BrianE wrote in
news:MPG.21b5143e2bee00149896c9@news.motzarella.org:
> In article <jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
> light@under_bushel.eu says...
>>
>> "BrianE" wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
>> > In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
>> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
>> >>
>> > ..
>> >
>> > --
>> > thar's gold in them thar hills..
>>
>> Brian,
>>
>> A section order has just been signed for you.
>
> Within 15 minutes of my last 'reply'?
>
> I was kinda hoping you crossposting numpties would disappear if I
> removed Surrey from the list of ngs.
>
> Seems I was wrong.
>
Er yes, because it was a stupid idea.
> So.. how was school today?
Original stuff.
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:37 +0000 (UTC)
author: Phil Kyle
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
BrianE wrote in
news:MPG.21b53a38a8cece199896e7@news.motzarella.org:
> In article <dzD2j.95867$HY1.11451@fe05.news.easynews.com>,
> light@under_bushel.eu says...
>>
>> "BrianE" wrote in message
>> news:MPG.21b5143e2bee00149896c9@news.motzarella.org...
>> > In article <jiD2j.125102$Eg2.118486@fe06.news.easynews.com>,
>> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
>> >>
>> >> "BrianE" wrote in message
>> >> news:MPG.21b50c0c84c717089896c8@news.motzarella.org...
>> >> > In article <6LC2j.120184$LL1.86851@fe04.news.easynews.com>,
>> >> > light@under_bushel.eu says...
>> >> >>
>> >> > ..
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > thar's gold in them thar hills..
>> >>
>> >> Brian,
>> >>
>> >> A section order has just been signed for you.
>> >
>> > Within 15 minutes of my last 'reply'?
>> >
>> > I was kinda hoping you crossposting numpties would disappear if I
>> > removed Surrey from the list of ngs.
>> >
>> > Seems I was wrong.
>> >
>> > So.. how was school today?
>>
>> When did your interest in schoolboys begin, Brian?
>
> Oh dear..
>
>
He's worried about it now.
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:43:37 +0000 (UTC)
author: Phil Kyle
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In article <figlbo$i86$68@blackhelicopter.databasix.com>, philkyle2003
@hotmail.com says...
> > So.. how was school today?
>
> Original stuff.
You can talk dipstick.
Then again, you and all your silly pals are just the height of hilarity
aren't you?
>
--
Thar's gold in them thar hills
date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:06:48 -0000
author: BrianE
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
In message , The DA
writes
>
>"JF" wrote in message
>news:c9AsVhO5N1SHFwGA@marage.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@marage.demon.co.uk>, JF
>> writes
>>
>>> His lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a liar on that
>>> occasion, too.
>>
>> Rect. Heh heh. Sod it. 'Led to him calling me'.
>>
>> Must Prooofread I always.
>
>Hey, JF, how many extra copies of the book have you sold on the back of all
>this controversy? I smell a rat - Jim Way is your sock puppet, isn't he?
Dammit! Sussed again. Okay -- now for Plan B... JF
date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:54:28 +0000
author: JF
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Phil Kyle" wrote in message
news:figlbr$i86$71@blackhelicopter.databasix.com...
> "The DA" wrote in
> news:yYSdnQxRwdpdItbanZ2dnUVZ8vydnZ2d@bt.com:
>
>>
>>> Hi, James. Now, keep it short - impossible for you - keep it sweet -
>>> impossible for you - rebut the facts as stated - definitely
>>> impossible for you. (BTW James, did you know the meeja seem to be
>>> getting a whiff of this?)
>>>
>> LMAO. 'Keep it short,' says you. Why do you insist on re-posting the
>> whole thread every time?
>>
>> And it still seems like an anal-retentive's witch-hunt to me.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Well it would, to a JF fanboi.
Anybody who thinks you might be a tad overenthusiastic in your manhunt is
automatically a JF fanboi? Dickhead.
> --
>
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date: Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:49:33 -0000
author: The DA
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"Jim Way" wrote in message
news:b4g3j.146695$Eg2.114828@fe06.news.easynews.com...
>
> "JF" wrote in message
> news:Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@marage.demon.co.uk...
>> In message <f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com>, Jim Way
>> writes
>>>
>>>Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
>>>makes no such claim in his book.
>>
>> He's wrong. It's there.
>
> A very simple pointer to chapter and page would settle your claim, but
> please do not try using your "Laconia" obfuscation again. You used that
> the last time you were challenged, but in all of this, your claim that
> "Those In Peril" is about the "Atlantis" incident was confirmed in your
> post:
> ============================
> "james" wrote in message
> news:6kngcrADKgUFFwKg@marage.demon.co.uk...
>> X-No-Archive: yes
>
>> In message <Ehi4h.627808$Pi2.596...@fe08.news.easynews.com>, Cecil B
>> writes
>
>>>I've read quite a bit about the "Laconia" but I see that is a brand new
>>>survivor's story. I'll see if my library can get it for me. When I said
>>>"I wish I knew more" I was meaning more about the incident James based
>>>his story on. It seems there may be no details of that anywhere except in
>>>the German archives he referred to.
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_auxiliary_cruiser_Atlantis#U-68.2...126.2C_a_Nightmare.2C_and_HMS_Devonshire
> ==============================
> So, you state your book is based on the "Atlantis" incident and it
> certainly contains many events which occurred during that incident. You
> also state that Doenitz appealed to Churchill to "leave the U-boats alone"
> during the rescue attempts following the sinking of the German vessel. I
> am only asking you to point out where in Doenitz's memoirs doe he refer to
> such an appeal being made concerning the above South Atlantic incident
> which you claimed your novel was based on?
>
>> Wim's comprehension of plain English is dubious. I recently had to
>> explain to him the difference between past tense and present tense. His
>> lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a liar on that occasion,
>> too.
>
> The truth will out, eh Follett?
>
>> This the last time I'll reply to his claims.
>
> You've said that before. Was that another lie?
>
>> He had a chance to make them to my publisher's lawyers and he bottled
>> out. No surprises there. Anomymous poison pen letter writers are not
>> noted for their courage. Go back to your silly cross-posting hysterical
>> vendettas and wishing people dead, Wim. I look upon your views with
>> contempt. They are of no interest to me
>
> They are of such no interest to you that they stick in your craw. You
> probably greatly regret the day you tried to claim your novel "Those In
> Peril" was of some historical import but James Follett being James
> Follett, you simply cannot bring yourself to admit you have made a
> mistake. The mistakes of Follett thereby become the lies of Follett as he
> continues on his wriggling and squirming way.
>
> "Engage the enemy more closely!"
>
>> and will elicit no further responses from me. Send them to Goodman
>> Merrick or Michael Rubenstein.
>
> Who they?
>
>>
>> --
>> James Follett
>
>
date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:50:37 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"JF" wrote in message
news:Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@marage.demon.co.uk...
> In message <f6G2j.120195$LL1.56246@fe04.news.easynews.com>, Jim Way
> writes
>>
>>Oh dear. There is one big fault in that claim by James Follett: Doenitz
>>makes no such claim in his book.
>
> He's wrong. It's there. Wim's comprehension of plain English is dubious. I
> recently had to explain to him the difference between past tense and
> present tense. His lamentable misunderstanding led to me calling me a liar
> on that occasion, too.
>
> This the last time I'll reply to his claims. He had a chance to make them
> to my publisher's lawyers and he bottled out. No surprises there.
> Anomymous poison pen letter writers are not noted for their courage. Go
> back to your silly cross-posting hysterical vendettas and wishing people
> dead, Wim. I look upon your views with contempt. They are of no interest
> to me and will elicit no further responses from me. Send them to Goodman
> Merrick or Michael Rubenstein.
>
> --
> James Follett
date: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 15:37:51 GMT
author: Jim Way
|
Re: Those in Peril. The adventures of a radio play.
"JF" wrote in message
news:Wsh+BNN880SHFw3L@m | |