Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.

This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
R3  :o).

So what could be causing the above problem?

"alexander.keys1"  wrote in message 
news:1173130625.883631.98100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> R3  :o).
>
> So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

-- 

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <esk1pb$48t$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
> "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>>> R3  :o).
>>>
>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
>we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
>this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
> 
> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>tony sayer wrote:
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>>> can receive it at all).
>> 
>> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
>> isn't that bad either...
>
>Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
>
>Why all three services are different, I don't know.
>

Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >tony sayer wrote:
> >>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> >>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> >>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> >>> can receive it at all).
> >> 
> >> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> >> isn't that bad either...
> >
> >Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
> >
> >Why all three services are different, I don't know.
> >

> Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
> 4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>
> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> >> R3  :o).
>
> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> can receive it at all).
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

"Robert"  wrote in message 
news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>
>> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> >> R3  :o).
>>
>> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>
>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
>> --
>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>
> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
> distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
> to stay with FM.
>
> Robert
> Cambridge
>

Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to 
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are 
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in 
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel 
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have 
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very 
similar.

S.

Serge Auckland wrote:
> "Robert"  wrote in message
> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>
>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>
>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>
>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>
>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>> --
>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>
>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>> really need to stay with FM.
>>
>> Robert
>> Cambridge
>>
>
> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
1980s.



-- 
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is@dead> wrote in message 
news:AoVHh.50043$3a3.26468@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Serge Auckland wrote:
>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>>
>>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>>
>>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>>
>>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>>
>>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>>
>>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>>
>>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>>> really need to stay with FM.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> Cambridge
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
>> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
>> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
>> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
>> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
>> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
>> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.
>
>
> You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
> stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
> is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
> which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
> lossless.
>
> Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
> ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
> signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
> pan-potted mono.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
> 1980s.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
>
> Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php
>
Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3 
etc.

S.

"alexander.keys1"  wrote in message 
news:1173130625.883631.98100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> R3  :o).
>
> So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

-- 

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <esk1pb$48t$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
> "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>>> R3  :o).
>>>
>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
>we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
>this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
> 
> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>tony sayer wrote:
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>>> can receive it at all).
>> 
>> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
>> isn't that bad either...
>
>Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
>
>Why all three services are different, I don't know.
>

Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >tony sayer wrote:
> >>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> >>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> >>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> >>> can receive it at all).
> >> 
> >> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> >> isn't that bad either...
> >
> >Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
> >
> >Why all three services are different, I don't know.
> >

> Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
> 4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>
> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> >> R3  :o).
>
> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> can receive it at all).
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

"Robert"  wrote in message 
news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>
>> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> >> R3  :o).
>>
>> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>
>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
>> --
>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>
> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
> distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
> to stay with FM.
>
> Robert
> Cambridge
>

Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to 
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are 
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in 
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel 
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have 
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very 
similar.

S.

Serge Auckland wrote:
> "Robert"  wrote in message
> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>
>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>
>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>
>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>
>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>> --
>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>
>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>> really need to stay with FM.
>>
>> Robert
>> Cambridge
>>
>
> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
1980s.



-- 
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is@dead> wrote in message 
news:AoVHh.50043$3a3.26468@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Serge Auckland wrote:
>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>>
>>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>>
>>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>>
>>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>>
>>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>>
>>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>>
>>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>>> really need to stay with FM.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> Cambridge
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
>> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
>> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
>> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
>> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
>> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
>> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.
>
>
> You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
> stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
> is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
> which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
> lossless.
>
> Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
> ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
> signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
> pan-potted mono.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
> 1980s.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
>
> Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php
>
Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3 
etc.

S.

"alexander.keys1"  wrote in message 
news:1173130625.883631.98100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> R3  :o).
>
> So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

-- 

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <esk1pb$48t$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
> "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>>> R3  :o).
>>>
>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
>we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
>this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
> 
> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>tony sayer wrote:
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>>> can receive it at all).
>> 
>> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
>> isn't that bad either...
>
>Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
>
>Why all three services are different, I don't know.
>

Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >tony sayer wrote:
> >>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> >>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> >>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> >>> can receive it at all).
> >> 
> >> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> >> isn't that bad either...
> >
> >Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
> >
> >Why all three services are different, I don't know.
> >

> Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
> 4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>
> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> >> R3  :o).
>
> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> can receive it at all).
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

"Robert"  wrote in message 
news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>
>> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> >> R3  :o).
>>
>> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>
>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
>> --
>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>
> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
> distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
> to stay with FM.
>
> Robert
> Cambridge
>

Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to 
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are 
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in 
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel 
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have 
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very 
similar.

S.

Serge Auckland wrote:
> "Robert"  wrote in message
> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>
>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>
>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>
>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>
>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>> --
>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>
>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>> really need to stay with FM.
>>
>> Robert
>> Cambridge
>>
>
> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
1980s.



-- 
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is@dead> wrote in message 
news:AoVHh.50043$3a3.26468@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Serge Auckland wrote:
>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>>
>>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>>
>>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>>
>>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>>
>>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>>
>>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>>
>>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>>> really need to stay with FM.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> Cambridge
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
>> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
>> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
>> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
>> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
>> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
>> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.
>
>
> You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
> stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
> is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
> which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
> lossless.
>
> Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
> ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
> signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
> pan-potted mono.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
> 1980s.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
>
> Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php
>
Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3 
etc.

S.

"alexander.keys1"  wrote in message 
news:1173130625.883631.98100@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...
> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> R3  :o).
>
> So what could be causing the above problem?

Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

-- 

Brian Gregory. (In the UK)
ng@bgdsv.co.uk
To email me remove the letter vee.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <esk1pb$48t$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
> "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>>> R3  :o).
>>>
>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
>we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
>this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
> 
> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>tony sayer wrote:
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>>> can receive it at all).
>> 
>> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
>> isn't that bad either...
>
>Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
>
>Why all three services are different, I don't know.
>

Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >tony sayer wrote:
> >>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> >>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> >>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> >>> can receive it at all).
> >> 
> >> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> >> isn't that bad either...
> >
> >Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
> >
> >Why all three services are different, I don't know.
> >

> Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
> 4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>
> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> >> R3  :o).
>
> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> can receive it at all).
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

"Robert"  wrote in message 
news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>
>> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> >> R3  :o).
>>
>> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>
>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
>> --
>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>
> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
> distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
> to stay with FM.
>
> Robert
> Cambridge
>

Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to 
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are 
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in 
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel 
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have 
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very 
similar.

S.

Serge Auckland wrote:
> "Robert"  wrote in message
> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>
>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>
>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>
>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>
>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>> --
>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>
>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>> really need to stay with FM.
>>
>> Robert
>> Cambridge
>>
>
> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
1980s.



-- 
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is@dead> wrote in message 
news:AoVHh.50043$3a3.26468@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Serge Auckland wrote:
>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>>
>>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>>
>>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>>
>>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>>
>>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>>
>>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>>
>>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>>> really need to stay with FM.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> Cambridge
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
>> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
>> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
>> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
>> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
>> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
>> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.
>
>
> You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
> stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
> is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
> which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
> lossless.
>
> Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
> ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
> signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
> pan-potted mono.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
> 1980s.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
>
> Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php
>
Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3 
etc.

S.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

In article <esk1pb$48t$1@gemini.csx.cam.ac.uk>, Robin Fairbairns
 writes
> "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>>> R3  :o).
>>>
>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
>we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
>this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>can receive it at all).

Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
isn't that bad either...


http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/madingley.asp
-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
> 
> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> isn't that bad either...

Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.

Why all three services are different, I don't know.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

In article , Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
>tony sayer wrote:
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>>> can receive it at all).
>> 
>> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
>> isn't that bad either...
>
>Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
>
>Why all three services are different, I don't know.
>

Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned 4 kW
then?....
-- 
Tony Sayer

In article ,
   tony sayer  wrote:
> In article , Mark Carver
> <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> writes
> >tony sayer wrote:
> >>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> >>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> >>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> >>> can receive it at all).
> >> 
> >> Yes it is at Madingley. And uses IIRC 4 kW into Cambridge and the FM
> >> isn't that bad either...
> >
> >Actually the Beeb use 5kW, Digital One 1kW, and the local Cambs mux 2kW.
> >
> >Why all three services are different, I don't know.
> >

> Wonder why the bloke from Crown castle ..sorry!.. The gas board mentioned
> 4 kW then?....


Possibly because: transmitter people think in terms of transmitter power
while the figures quoted above are 'erp'.

-- 
From KT24 - in "Leafy Surrey"

Using a RISC OS computer running v5.11

On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>
> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>
> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
> >> R3  :o).
>
> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>
> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>
> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
> can receive it at all).
> --
> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
to stay with FM.

Robert
Cambridge

"Robert"  wrote in message 
news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>
>> >"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> >> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> >> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> >> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> >> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> >> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> >> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> >> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> >> R3  :o).
>>
>> >> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>
>> >Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>
>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
>> (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
>> breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
>> switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>
>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
>> the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
>> service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
>> can receive it at all).
>> --
>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>
> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but lower
> distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you really need
> to stay with FM.
>
> Robert
> Cambridge
>

Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to 
multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and difference are 
coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are transmitted seperately and in 
both cases reconsituted in the receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel 
carries less information than the L+R channel. I would therefore have 
thought that in terms of stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very 
similar.

S.

Serge Auckland wrote:
> "Robert"  wrote in message
> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>
>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>
>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>
>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>
>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>
>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>
>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>> --
>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>
>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>> really need to stay with FM.
>>
>> Robert
>> Cambridge
>>
>
> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.


You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
lossless.

Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
pan-potted mono.

Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
1980s.



-- 
Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info

Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php

"DAB sounds worse than FM" <dab.is@dead> wrote in message 
news:AoVHh.50043$3a3.26468@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
> Serge Auckland wrote:
>> "Robert"  wrote in message
>> news:1173361644.856726.222140@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Mar 6, 3:36 pm, r...@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns) wrote:
>>>>  "Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>>>>
>>>>> "alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>>>>>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen
>>>>>> to BBC Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up
>>>>>> on the list of channels, although the other BBC channels were
>>>>>> working. I tried rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>>>
>>>>>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>>>>>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just
>>>>>> tried my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on,
>>>>>> including R3  :o).
>>>>
>>>>>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>>>>
>>>>> Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?
>>>>
>>>> we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on
>>>> the (modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then
>>>> started breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence
>>>> than signal, i switched the digital off and we gave up.
>>>>
>>>> this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably
>>>> not the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor
>>>> fm service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ...
>>>> when i can receive it at all).
>>>> --
>>>> Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
>>>
>>> You don't get full stereo on radio 3 any more.   They now usually
>>> broadcast in "joint stereo"  which gives a poor stereo image but
>>> lower distortion.     For full stereo and good sound quality you
>>> really need to stay with FM.
>>>
>>> Robert
>>> Cambridge
>>>
>>
>> Strange you say this, as joint stereo is very similar in concept to
>> multiplex stereo on FM. In joint stereo, the stereo sum and
>> difference are coded separately, and in FM, L+R and L-R are
>> transmitted seperately and in both cases reconsituted in the
>> receiver. Also in both cases the L-R channel carries less information
>> than the L+R channel. I would therefore have thought that in terms of
>> stereo, both FM and DAB would have been very similar.
>
>
> You're confusing different kinds of joint stereo. DAB uses 'intensity 
> stereo' joint stereo, whereas the kind of joint stereo you're referring to 
> is mid/side (used on FM, and used by MP3, AAC, WMA etc, but not by MP2, 
> which is used on DAB). Intensity stereo is lossy, whereas mid/side is 
> lossless.
>
> Intensity stereo used on DAB forms L+R, encodes that and also encodes the 
> ratio of the energy in the L to energy in the R channel. Therefore, the 
> signal envelope is destroyed. Bye bye information, bye bye phase, hello 
> pan-potted mono.
>
> Welcome to the wonderful world of DAB, the future of radio designed in the 
> 1980s.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Steve - www.digitalradiotech.co.uk - Digital Radio News & Info
>
> Find the cheapest Freeview & DAB prices:
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/freeview/freeview_receivers.php
> http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/dab/dab_radios.php
>
Thanks for that. I was unaware that joint stereo on MP2 was different to MP3 
etc.

S.

"Brian Gregory [UK]"  writes:
>"alexander.keys1"  wrote...
>> Last night I was round at a friend's, and they wanted to listen to BBC
>> Radio 3, on their portable DAB. However it did not show up on the list
>> of channels, although the other BBC channels were working. I tried
>> rescanning it, but R3 is still missing.
>>
>> This is in Leicester, presumably from the same Tx that I reported
>> recently wasn't providing a usable signal at my location (just tried
>> my DAB for the first time in weeks - BBC is now back on, including
>> R3  :o).
>>
>> So what could be causing the above problem?
>
>Crap buggy firmware in the receiver?

we moved into the kitchen to eat our evening meal, and switched on the
(modest) digital there.  it played for a few minutes, and then started
breaking up.  at the point where there was more silence than signal, i
switched the digital off and we gave up.

this was in cambridge: i don't know which tx serves us (presumably not
the tiny repeater just over our horizon that gives us such poor fm
service ... after all, with digital i get stereo reception ... when i
can receive it at all).
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge