Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the sixties 
pirates we would never have had Radio 2.

As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and newsworthy.

Best wishes to all.

Mike

"Mike Terry"  wrote in message
news:DYKdnRoq2v29IyHbnZ2dnUVZ8tOmnZ2d@bt.com...
> Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the sixties
> pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>
> As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and newsworthy.
>
> Best wishes to all.
>
> Mike
>

Listening to http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/local_radio/pirate_bbc_essex/ now -
they are broadcasting their pirate stuff.

Johnnie Walker is due on at 9pm

Jim

He's on now, this is the Johnnie of my youth - superb.

"Jay"  wrote in message 
news:qn3vi.12835$rr5.12682@newsfe1-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Mike Terry"  wrote in message
> news:DYKdnRoq2v29IyHbnZ2dnUVZ8tOmnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the sixties
>> pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>
>> As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and newsworthy.
>>
>> Best wishes to all.
>>
>> Mike
>>
>
> Listening to http://www.bbc.co.uk/essex/local_radio/pirate_bbc_essex/ 
> now -
> they are broadcasting their pirate stuff.
>
> Johnnie Walker is due on at 9pm
>
> Jim
>
>

And the 45 jumps - thats authentic sixties! He needs to put a shilling on 
the record arm.

"Mike Terry"  wrote in message
news:AsednZCNv4YMWCHbnZ2dnUVZ8qqlnZ2d@bt.com...
> And the 45 jumps - thats authentic sixties! He needs to put a shilling on
> the record arm.
>
>

A few 'authentic' breaks in transmission too...

Yup dead air on the internet!! Its all authentic stuff!


"Jay"  wrote in message 
news:YB3vi.9770$ie3.6229@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
>
> "Mike Terry"  wrote in message
> news:AsednZCNv4YMWCHbnZ2dnUVZ8qqlnZ2d@bt.com...
>> And the 45 jumps - thats authentic sixties! He needs to put a shilling on
>> the record arm.
>>
>>
>
> A few 'authentic' breaks in transmission too...
>
>

Apparently medium wave has gone to an emergency tape or
perhaps the regional programme, One of these Nights by
the Eagles.

Back on now on the internet (21:17)

"Mike Terry"  wrote in message 
news:U-Cdnf8NMrgwWyHbnZ2dnUVZ8qGdnZ2d@bt.com...
> Apparently medium wave has gone to an emergency tape or
> perhaps the regional programme, One of these Nights by
> the Eagles.
>
>
>

In uk.media.radio.bbc-r2 on Fri, 10 Aug 2007, Mike Terry wrote :
>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the sixties
>pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>
>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and newsworthy.
>
What happens on the 14th, then?
-- 
Paul 'Charts Fan' Hyett

Paul Hyett wrote:
> In uk.media.radio.bbc-r2 on Fri, 10 Aug 2007, Mike Terry wrote :
>> Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the sixties
>> pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>
>> As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and newsworthy.
>>
> What happens on the 14th, then?

Happened:-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:zNidnXD3m4D6ayDbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>> But not outside international law.
>
> They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
> nowt to do with the British government.

The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
otherwise.

"As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
this interpretation proved to be impractical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

>
<snip>
>
>> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
> Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
> problem.

That just show how little you really understand... :~(

>
> Remember Citizens' Band?
>
> "Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
> about that. But it was done.

Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used, Wilson and 
his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:zNidnXD3m4D6ayDbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>> But not outside international law.
>
> They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
> nowt to do with the British government.

The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
otherwise.

"As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
this interpretation proved to be impractical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

>
<snip>
>
>> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
> Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
> problem.

That just show how little you really understand... :~(

>
> Remember Citizens' Band?
>
> "Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
> about that. But it was done.

Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used, Wilson and 
his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:

> <snip>

>>>But not outside international law.

>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>nowt to do with the British government.

> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
> from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
> the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
> carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
> otherwise.

Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without British 
advertising and English language programming, their lawful function 
would have been pointless.

OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know best. 
Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster and was 
even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
> way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
> the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
> by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
> this interpretation proved to be impractical."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

I am well aware of what the law did.

It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill to 
make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.

"Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
language offshore radio stations.

> <snip>

>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?

>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>problem.

> That just show how little you really understand... :~(

Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
particular land-based station from being heard.

Let me quote you something from the URL you provided:

SLICE ONE:
"Claims of piracy

During Parliamentary debates which often spilled over into the press, 
several reasons were stated as to why the operations of British 
broadcasting by stations unlicensed by Britain should be stopped. In 
order to promote their political agenda, proponents of legislation 
referred to the offshore stations as "pirate radio stations". Because 
the word "piracy" means theft of property it was necessary to 
castigate the stations as thieves. These allegations of theft included 
the misappropriation of former World War II military instalations;"

Nice one, eh?

If they belonged to the government, they could have claimed them back 
- by force if necessary.

SLICE TWO:
"...wavelengths allocated to other broadcasters by international 
treaty and the unauthorized playing of recorded music."

Doesn't your heart just bleed? As we know, the record companies LOVED 
the offshore stations. They were all for them.

"...On top of this other charges were added to imply that the offshore 
radio ships were a danger to shipping on the high seas and their 
spurious signals could interfere with aircraft and land based 
emergency communications by police, fire and ambulance services."

What a load of bull. How many fire engines or ambulances used MW 199 
for communication?

>>Remember Citizens' Band?
>>"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
>>about that. But it was done.

> Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used,

I never had and have never used a CB radio, so I don't know what you 
mean by "misused". I understand that people were allowed to talk about 
whatever they wanted on (legal) CB. "Misuse" is hard to imagine in 
such circumstances.

> Wilson and 
> his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
> try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
> legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

The missing point is that the restrictions are not and never were 
about safety, or copyright, or about police cars in Oswestry. The law 
was passed by a government that (even more than most governments) 
simply could not stomach any broadcasting that they did not control.

And where are we today, by comparison?

What about the radio spectrum bandwidth taken up by all those extra 
land-based radio stations? TV stations? Mobile phones? The explosion 
in two-way radio? All that radio bandwidth... it was always there.

Now don't get me wrong - I am not in favour of genuine (land-based) 
pirate radio. The government has the right to control broadcasting 
from within the UK. But Caroline was not a pirate station. It was 
operating lawfully.

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:zNidnXD3m4D6ayDbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>> But not outside international law.
>
> They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
> nowt to do with the British government.

The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
otherwise.

"As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
this interpretation proved to be impractical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

>
<snip>
>
>> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
> Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
> problem.

That just show how little you really understand... :~(

>
> Remember Citizens' Band?
>
> "Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
> about that. But it was done.

Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used, Wilson and 
his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:

> <snip>

>>>But not outside international law.

>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>nowt to do with the British government.

> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
> from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
> the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
> carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
> otherwise.

Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without British 
advertising and English language programming, their lawful function 
would have been pointless.

OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know best. 
Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster and was 
even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
> way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
> the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
> by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
> this interpretation proved to be impractical."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

I am well aware of what the law did.

It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill to 
make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.

"Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
language offshore radio stations.

> <snip>

>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?

>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>problem.

> That just show how little you really understand... :~(

Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
particular land-based station from being heard.

Let me quote you something from the URL you provided:

SLICE ONE:
"Claims of piracy

During Parliamentary debates which often spilled over into the press, 
several reasons were stated as to why the operations of British 
broadcasting by stations unlicensed by Britain should be stopped. In 
order to promote their political agenda, proponents of legislation 
referred to the offshore stations as "pirate radio stations". Because 
the word "piracy" means theft of property it was necessary to 
castigate the stations as thieves. These allegations of theft included 
the misappropriation of former World War II military instalations;"

Nice one, eh?

If they belonged to the government, they could have claimed them back 
- by force if necessary.

SLICE TWO:
"...wavelengths allocated to other broadcasters by international 
treaty and the unauthorized playing of recorded music."

Doesn't your heart just bleed? As we know, the record companies LOVED 
the offshore stations. They were all for them.

"...On top of this other charges were added to imply that the offshore 
radio ships were a danger to shipping on the high seas and their 
spurious signals could interfere with aircraft and land based 
emergency communications by police, fire and ambulance services."

What a load of bull. How many fire engines or ambulances used MW 199 
for communication?

>>Remember Citizens' Band?
>>"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
>>about that. But it was done.

> Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used,

I never had and have never used a CB radio, so I don't know what you 
mean by "misused". I understand that people were allowed to talk about 
whatever they wanted on (legal) CB. "Misuse" is hard to imagine in 
such circumstances.

> Wilson and 
> his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
> try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
> legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

The missing point is that the restrictions are not and never were 
about safety, or copyright, or about police cars in Oswestry. The law 
was passed by a government that (even more than most governments) 
simply could not stomach any broadcasting that they did not control.

And where are we today, by comparison?

What about the radio spectrum bandwidth taken up by all those extra 
land-based radio stations? TV stations? Mobile phones? The explosion 
in two-way radio? All that radio bandwidth... it was always there.

Now don't get me wrong - I am not in favour of genuine (land-based) 
pirate radio. The government has the right to control broadcasting 
from within the UK. But Caroline was not a pirate station. It was 
operating lawfully.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:Jf-dnatyVcl9rCPbnZ2dnUVZ8t-nnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
>
>> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>>:Jerry: wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>>>But not outside international law.
>
>>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>>nowt to do with the British government.
>
>> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop 
>> them from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well 
>> within the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could 
>> have carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so 
>> proved otherwise.
>
> Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without 
> British advertising and English language programming, their lawful 
> function would have been pointless.

There was nothing to stop them broadcasting in English, only UK 
citizens would have been breaking any law by working for or on the 
pirate ships / stations (and only then if they returned to the UK).

>
> OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
> European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know 
> best. Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster 
> and was even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

Your point being what exactly? Remember that many of the (UK) pirate 
DJ's went on to work for UK based / owned radio / TV stations.

>
>> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
>> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
>> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in 
>> any way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was 
>> thought by the station operators that if they were staffed, 
>> supplied and funded by non-British citizens that they could 
>> continue transmissions, but this interpretation proved to be 
>> impractical."
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act
>
> I am well aware of what the law did.

Obviously not or you would not be making sweeping and inaccurate 
statements, the MBOA did not prevent the pirates from broadcasting, 
all it did was stop the operations from being based within the (land, 
sea and air space of the) UK.

>
> It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill 
> to make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.
>
> "Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
> language offshore radio stations.

Rubbish, if you want to draw a parallel with the internet, it's like 
creating a law that makes it illegal for UK owned (or non UK owned but 
sited) servers within the UK to host (for example) terrorist manuals - 
it doesn't stop such content from being hosted outside the UK - the 
MBOA did *not* make it illegal to listen to such pirate radio 
stations, unlike the current crop of laws relating to the internet 
that do make it an illegal act to access / download such content.

>
>> <snip>
>
>>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
>>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>>problem.
>
>> That just show how little you really understand... :~(
>
> Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
> low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
> Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
> interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
> claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
> particular land-based station from being heard.

The problem is not that they did but the real threat that someone 
would.

<snip>
>>>Remember Citizens' Band?
>>>"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
>>>about that. But it was done.
>
>> Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used,
>
> I never had and have never used a CB radio, so I don't know what you 
> mean by "misused". I understand that people were allowed to talk 
> about whatever they wanted on (legal) CB. "Misuse" is hard to 
> imagine in such circumstances.

So you bring up CB radio as some sort of example of how allowing 
people to have access to the 'air-waves' didn't cause a problem but 
admit to knowing sod all about the subject - are you an idiot or just 
a troll?!...

>
>> Wilson and his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) 
>> got CB was to try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, 
>> even the those legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) 
>> miss used.
>
> The missing point is that the restrictions are not and never were 
> about safety, or copyright, or about police cars in Oswestry. The 
> law was passed by a government that (even more than most 
> governments) simply could not stomach any broadcasting that they did 
> not control.
>

Not so,the problem of 'pirate' broadcasts breaking into other 
(legitimate) use of the air-waves was very real in those days, 
probably more so than today, and it's still a problem even with all 
the new transmission technologies. OK, the then crop of pirate 
stations had relatively weak transmitters but what would have happened 
if a large, powerful transmitter had been moored off shore (one also 
needs to remember the international political situation at the time, 
some of which was behind the comment made in Parliament at the time I 
suspect).

> And where are we today, by comparison?
>
> What about the radio spectrum bandwidth taken up by all those extra 
> land-based radio stations? TV stations? Mobile phones? The explosion 
> in two-way radio? All that radio bandwidth... it was always there.

No it wasn't, as I said before, you obviously know little about how 
these broadcast spectrums work and also you forget that both TV and 
the emergency services have been moved away from the VHF bands whilst 
other services have been moved to the VHF bands.

>
> Now don't get me wrong - I am not in favour of genuine (land-based) 
> pirate radio. The government has the right to control broadcasting 
> from within the UK. But Caroline was not a pirate station. It was 
> operating lawfully.

It could and did carry on though...

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:zNidnXD3m4D6ayDbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>> But not outside international law.
>
> They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
> nowt to do with the British government.

The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
otherwise.

"As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
this interpretation proved to be impractical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

>
<snip>
>
>> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
> Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
> problem.

That just show how little you really understand... :~(

>
> Remember Citizens' Band?
>
> "Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
> about that. But it was done.

Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used, Wilson and 
his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:

> <snip>

>>>But not outside international law.

>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>nowt to do with the British government.

> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
> from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
> the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
> carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
> otherwise.

Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without British 
advertising and English language programming, their lawful function 
would have been pointless.

OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know best. 
Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster and was 
even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
> way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
> the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
> by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
> this interpretation proved to be impractical."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

I am well aware of what the law did.

It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill to 
make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.

"Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
language offshore radio stations.

> <snip>

>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?

>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>problem.

> That just show how little you really understand... :~(

Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
particular land-based station from being heard.

Let me quote you something from the URL you provided:

SLICE ONE:
"Claims of piracy

During Parliamentary debates which often spilled over into the press, 
several reasons were stated as to why the operations of British 
broadcasting by stations unlicensed by Britain should be stopped. In 
order to promote their political agenda, proponents of legislation 
referred to the offshore stations as "pirate radio stations". Because 
the word "piracy" means theft of property it was necessary to 
castigate the stations as thieves. These allegations of theft included 
the misappropriation of former World War II military instalations;"

Nice one, eh?

If they belonged to the government, they could have claimed them back 
- by force if necessary.

SLICE TWO:
"...wavelengths allocated to other broadcasters by international 
treaty and the unauthorized playing of recorded music."

Doesn't your heart just bleed? As we know, the record companies LOVED 
the offshore stations. They were all for them.

"...On top of this other charges were added to imply that the offshore 
radio ships were a danger to shipping on the high seas and their 
spurious signals could interfere with aircraft and land based 
emergency communications by police, fire and ambulance services."

What a load of bull. How many fire engines or ambulances used MW 199 
for communication?

>>Remember Citizens' Band?
>>"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
>>about that. But it was done.

> Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used,

I never had and have never used a CB radio, so I don't know what you 
mean by "misused". I understand that people were allowed to talk about 
whatever they wanted on (legal) CB. "Misuse" is hard to imagine in 
such circumstances.

> Wilson and 
> his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
> try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
> legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

The missing point is that the restrictions are not and never were 
about safety, or copyright, or about police cars in Oswestry. The law 
was passed by a government that (even more than most governments) 
simply could not stomach any broadcasting that they did not control.

And where are we today, by comparison?

What about the radio spectrum bandwidth taken up by all those extra 
land-based radio stations? TV stations? Mobile phones? The explosion 
in two-way radio? All that radio bandwidth... it was always there.

Now don't get me wrong - I am not in favour of genuine (land-based) 
pirate radio. The government has the right to control broadcasting 
from within the UK. But Caroline was not a pirate station. It was 
operating lawfully.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:Jf-dnatyVcl9rCPbnZ2dnUVZ8t-nnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
>
>> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>>:Jerry: wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>
>>>>But not outside international law.
>
>>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>>nowt to do with the British government.
>
>> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop 
>> them from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well 
>> within the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could 
>> have carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so 
>> proved otherwise.
>
> Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without 
> British advertising and English language programming, their lawful 
> function would have been pointless.

There was nothing to stop them broadcasting in English, only UK 
citizens would have been breaking any law by working for or on the 
pirate ships / stations (and only then if they returned to the UK).

>
> OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
> European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know 
> best. Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster 
> and was even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

Your point being what exactly? Remember that many of the (UK) pirate 
DJ's went on to work for UK based / owned radio / TV stations.

>
>> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
>> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
>> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in 
>> any way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was 
>> thought by the station operators that if they were staffed, 
>> supplied and funded by non-British citizens that they could 
>> continue transmissions, but this interpretation proved to be 
>> impractical."
>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act
>
> I am well aware of what the law did.

Obviously not or you would not be making sweeping and inaccurate 
statements, the MBOA did not prevent the pirates from broadcasting, 
all it did was stop the operations from being based within the (land, 
sea and air space of the) UK.

>
> It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill 
> to make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.
>
> "Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
> language offshore radio stations.

Rubbish, if you want to draw a parallel with the internet, it's like 
creating a law that makes it illegal for UK owned (or non UK owned but 
sited) servers within the UK to host (for example) terrorist manuals - 
it doesn't stop such content from being hosted outside the UK - the 
MBOA did *not* make it illegal to listen to such pirate radio 
stations, unlike the current crop of laws relating to the internet 
that do make it an illegal act to access / download such content.

>
>> <snip>
>
>>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
>>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>>problem.
>
>> That just show how little you really understand... :~(
>
> Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
> low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
> Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
> interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
> claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
> particular land-based station from being heard.

The problem is not that they did but the real threat that someone 
would.

<snip>
>>>Remember Citizens' Band?
>>>"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
>>>about that. But it was done.
>
>> Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used,
>
> I never had and have never used a CB radio, so I don't know what you 
> mean by "misused". I understand that people were allowed to talk 
> about whatever they wanted on (legal) CB. "Misuse" is hard to 
> imagine in such circumstances.

So you bring up CB radio as some sort of example of how allowing 
people to have access to the 'air-waves' didn't cause a problem but 
admit to knowing sod all about the subject - are you an idiot or just 
a troll?!...

>
>> Wilson and his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) 
>> got CB was to try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, 
>> even the those legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) 
>> miss used.
>
> The missing point is that the restrictions are not and never were 
> about safety, or copyright, or about police cars in Oswestry. The 
> law was passed by a government that (even more than most 
> governments) simply could not stomach any broadcasting that they did 
> not control.
>

Not so,the problem of 'pirate' broadcasts breaking into other 
(legitimate) use of the air-waves was very real in those days, 
probably more so than today, and it's still a problem even with all 
the new transmission technologies. OK, the then crop of pirate 
stations had relatively weak transmitters but what would have happened 
if a large, powerful transmitter had been moored off shore (one also 
needs to remember the international political situation at the time, 
some of which was behind the comment made in Parliament at the time I 
suspect).

> And where are we today, by comparison?
>
> What about the radio spectrum bandwidth taken up by all those extra 
> land-based radio stations? TV stations? Mobile phones? The explosion 
> in two-way radio? All that radio bandwidth... it was always there.

No it wasn't, as I said before, you obviously know little about how 
these broadcast spectrums work and also you forget that both TV and 
the emergency services have been moved away from the VHF bands whilst 
other services have been moved to the VHF bands.

>
> Now don't get me wrong - I am not in favour of genuine (land-based) 
> pirate radio. The government has the right to control broadcasting 
> from within the UK. But Caroline was not a pirate station. It was 
> operating lawfully.

It could and did carry on though...

JNugent wrote:
> 
> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
> occasional news bulletin.

Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had considerable 
elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR stations did you actually 
hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

Mark Carver wrote:

> JNugent wrote:

>> Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what R1 
>> did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with the 
>> occasional news bulletin.

> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 
> Bournemouth's 2CR aimed at the 50+ age group, Swansea Sound had 
> considerable elements of Welsh language programming. How many ILR 
> stations did you actually hear during the 70s and early 80s ?

OK, then, most. Can't say I've ever spent much time listening to ILR 
in Plymouth (and certainly not in Wales). The ones I remember were 
Radio City (Liverpool), Piccadilly Radio )Manchester), BRMB 
(Birmingham) and Capital Radio (London). Can't remember any of the 
others I heard at the time (usually on the car radio in MW), but never 
heard one that was not predominantly pop music, even if Radio City and 
Piccadilly occasionally ran a sub-regional discussion for the odd 
twenty minutes, in a lip-service attempt.

I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

> The ILR of today, resembles more the R1 of the 70/80s.

It was like that back in the mid-seventies, too.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:
>>>"JNugent"  wrote:
>>>>Mike Terry wrote:

>>>>>Well here's a new thread for you - my view is that without the 
>>>>>sixties pirates we would never have had Radio 2.
>>>>>As we approach 14 August that becomes very relevant and 
>>>>>newsworthy.

>>>>That is absolutely correct. The reorganisation of BBC radio from:
>>>>Light Programme, Home Service, Third Programme
>>>>to...
>>>>Radio 1, Radio 2, Radio 3, Radio 4
>>>>...was part of a deal with the government which was designed to 
>>>>mitigate and cover the effects of the government's heavy-handed 
>>>>banning of a completely lawful activity which was taking place 
>>>>outside the UK (ie, broadcasting from ships and similar).

>>>Not quite, as (IIRC) they were not paying royalties etc.

>>Whatever they were doing or not doing, they were doing or not doing 
>>it outside the jurisdiction of the UK.

> But not outside international law.

They should have sent for the international police, then. It had nowt 
to do with the British government.

>>With a mindset which made them think they had a right to interfere 
>>with lawful activities on the seas, I'm surprised the Wislon govt 
>>didn't also carpet-bomb the Grand Duchy of Luxembourg (Radio 
>>Caroline was just as lawful as Radio Luxembourg).

> No it wasn't.

Which UK law was being broken (before the creation of the artificial 
offence of doing business with an offshore radio station)?

There is no "offence" of not paying royalties. In any event, the "not 
paying royalties" argument was a total smokescreen and I'm surprised 
you fell for it. No-one was being prejudiced. The copyright holders 
(principally EMI, Decca, Philips, Pye) positively encouraged Radios 
Caroline and London, etc - they sent them their new releases, FOC. 
They wanted them played. They understood that they were on to a good 
thing. They had previously had to PAY Radio Luxembourg to play their 
records (by sponsoring 15m and 30m programmes) and were apparently 
happy to do so.

>>>>A few years later, the Heath government decided to legalise 
>>>>commercial radio and started to hand out licenses for local 
>>>>franchises. IMHO, once a network of pop stations were up and 
>>>>running, more instructions ought to have been given to the Beeb to 
>>>>discontinue R1, since its temporary purpose was then ended.

>>>Sorry but that doesn't follow, certainly were ILR is concerned, you 
>>>might have a point with NIR (aka Virgin Radio) but even then the 
>>>two compliment each other rather than compete - the BBC can (but 
>>>doesn't always) do things that a commercial station can't and 
>>>vise-versa due to each of their funding models.

>>Apart from LBC, all the initial commercial stations used to do what 
>>R1 did - just play records introduced by (local) "celeb" DJs, with 
>>the occasional news bulletin.

> Your point being what, other than missing the fact that until recent 
> years ILR did not have universal coverage so there was still need for 
> a national pop radio station.

"Need"...

<sharp intake of breath>

That's an awfully big statement.

How on Earth did we manage to survive until 1967 without a "national 
pop radio station"? After all, we apparently "needed" one.

>>>If anything, considering how ILR has evolved over the last 30 
>>>years, I think that it's been (in the main) a complete failure, if 
>>>it's acceptable for the entire ILR network to be owned and run by 
>>>one or two media empires it would have been preferable to have 
>>>allowed the BBC to launch local equivalents of R1 as well as what 
>>>we have at present.

>>Local R1 as well as R1 and the gradual take-over of R2?

> Err, local BBC radio has not taken over R2.

You misunderstand.

The thought of Radio 1 effectively having three outlets (R1, 
"R2-under-the-current-management-who-don't-understand-or-see-any-need-for-music-older-than-Bruce-Springsteen" 
and a local network) is enough to make one shudder.

Is there still any room for (non-classical) music for grown-ups at the 
BBC? Every year, there's less of it.

>>The mind boggles.

> It certainly does were ILR (and, VOT, BSkyB) is concerned, monopolies 
> are OK as long as they are not BBC monopolies it seems

Does BSkyB run any radio stations? I know they deliver a hundred or so 
via the satellite. I have no idea what VOT is. In any case, I have no 
problem with local BBC radio (they don't just play records, for a 
start, though I do think they play too many).

>>I think there's still a good argument for repealing the Marine 
>>Offences ... Act. Heath should have done it in 1970.

> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc? 

Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
problem.

Remember Citizens' Band?

"Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said about 
that. But it was done.

JNugent wrote:
> Mark Carver wrote:

[snip]

>> Not all. Plymouth Sound had all speech programming during the day. 

[snip]

> I must say I'm surprised that Plymouth Sound treated its listeners as 
> more grown up than the listeners in Birmingham, Liverpool and London.

Well, I wouldn't say that. Think more of a local version of TalkSport than a 
local version of Radio 4  ;-)

-- 
Mark
Please replace invalid and invalid with gmx and net to reply.

"JNugent"  wrote in message 
news:zNidnXD3m4D6ayDbnZ2dnUVZ8qKvnZ2d@pipex.net...
> :Jerry: wrote:
<snip>
>> But not outside international law.
>
> They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
> nowt to do with the British government.

The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
otherwise.

"As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
this interpretation proved to be impractical."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

>
<snip>
>
>> Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?
>
> Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
> problem.

That just show how little you really understand... :~(

>
> Remember Citizens' Band?
>
> "Couldn't be done" is what the Wilson government would have said 
> about that. But it was done.

Yes I remember it well, I also remember it being miss used, Wilson and 
his advisers were correct - the reason we (eventually) got CB was to 
try and stop the miss use of unsuitable frequencies, even the those 
legal frequencies were also (and probably still are) miss used.

:Jerry: wrote:

> "JNugent"  wrote:
>>:Jerry: wrote:

> <snip>

>>>But not outside international law.

>>They should have sent for the international police, then. It had 
>>nowt to do with the British government.

> The law didn't stop the pirate ships operating, but it did stop them 
> from being funded, serviced and docked in UK waters, all well within 
> the UK's government remit - as Caroline proved, they could have 
> carried on outside of UK waters but the logistics of doing so proved 
> otherwise.

Perhaps they could have carried on, but to no effect. Without British 
advertising and English language programming, their lawful function 
would have been pointless.

OTOH, there were also offshore radio stations broadcasting to other 
European countries. The Dutch "Radio Veronica" is the one I know best. 
Veronica eventually became a licensed land-based broadcaster and was 
even given a vertical slice franchise of a Dutch TV channel.

> "As a result of this Act, the offshore stations which had been 
> euphemistically called pirate radio stations prior to the Act then 
> became criminal enterprises if they were operated or assisted in any 
> way by persons who were subject to UK law. At first it was thought by 
> the station operators that if they were staffed, supplied and funded 
> by non-British citizens that they could continue transmissions, but 
> this interpretation proved to be impractical."

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Broadcasting_Offences_Act

I am well aware of what the law did.

It created an artificial offence. It was a bit like passing a Bill to 
make it illegal for you - and you alone - to use the internet.

"Why pick on me?", you might say. And so too might the English 
language offshore radio stations.

> <snip>

>>>Who would regulate what frequencies they use etc?

>>Someone else's problem. Where there's a will, there's a way round a 
>>problem.

> That just show how little you really understand... :~(

Those ships operated in an admittedly crowded MW band - but on 
low-power transmitters (certainly nowhere near the power of Radio 
Luxembourg 208, which itself used to cause and suffer from 
interference on adjacent bandwidths). I have never seen or heard any 
claim to the effect that Radios Caroline or London prevented a 
particular land-based station from being heard.

Let me quote you something from the URL you provided:

SLICE ONE:
"Claims of piracy

During Parliamentary debates which often spilled over into the press, 
several reasons were stated as to why the operations of British 
broadcasting by stations unlicensed by Britain should be stopped. In 
order to promote their political agenda, proponents of legislation 
referred to the offshore stations as "pirate radio stations". Because 
the word "piracy" means theft of property it was necessary to 
castigate the stations as thieves. These allegations of theft included 
the misappropriation of former World War II military instalations;"

Nice one, eh?

If they belonged to the government, they could have claimed them back 
- by force if necessary.

SLICE TWO:
"...wavelengths allocated to other broadcasters by international 
treaty and the unauthorized playing of re