Singles
-------
Madonna unexpectedly holds off Wiley, to claim a 4th week at #1.

New Entries/New Peaks
---------------------
Top 10 : Wiley #2, Will.I.Am #4, Coldplay #8, Kylie #10

Yay! Kylie's loyal fans rally round her to just keep her top 10 run 
going - now at 16 & counting! :)

Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14, James Fox #15, Duffy #17, Nelly #19
Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22, Pigeon Detectives #24, Sara Bareilles #30
Top 40 : Wideboys #32, Santogold #37

Re-entries T40 : none

New Entries outside the top 40 (plus new peaks) : Lil Wayne #42, Cassie 
#52, Captain #53, Taio Cruz #54, Lil Mama #57,  Paramore #71

Re-entries : Aerosmith (IDWTMAT) #68, Kanye West (Hc) #73


Albums
------
One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off 
the #1 spot!

New Entries/New Peaks
---------------------
Top 10 : Sam Sparro #4, Platters #8, Def Leppard #10
Top 20 : Hadouken #12, Willie Nelson #16

New outside the top 20 : Jack McManus #22, Frankie Valli #25, Delays 
#26, Steve Winwood #31

Re-entries : David Jordan #42, Abba #63, Paramore #65, Will.I.Am #70, 
Taio Cruz #75

Next Week
---------
Singles
-------
Pick a number!

Could be any one of Madonna, Sam Sparro, Wiley or Coldplay

Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)
Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
Top 20 : Pigeon Detectives, Ting Tings
Top 30 : David Jordan
Top 40 : Cassie, GCWCF, Justice, Lil Mama, Paramore

Any other possibilities?

Albums
------
Again, the field is wide open. Lots of new albums, but nothing obvious 
stands out.

I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition', or 
Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' - but asfter this week's 
surprise, who knows? :)

Top 10 NE : Charlatans, Kelly Rowland, Pendulum
Top 20 NE : Isobell Campbell, Jay Sean, Moby, Neil Diamond, Searchers

Others : Barenaked Ladies, DCFC, Frank Sinatra, Josh Groban, Martha 
Wainwright, Santogold
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:brXKBeCo6zJIFwjM@blueyonder.co.uk...
> Singles
> -------
> Madonna unexpectedly holds off Wiley, to claim a 4th week at #1.

What an unattractive mental image that is!

> New Entries/New Peaks
> ---------------------
> Top 10 : Wiley #2,

I've never heard the original BTW.

>Will.I.Am #4,

In which Cheryl Cole finally acheives her long-held ambition of appearing in 
the video to one of her own records. And as the version she contributes to 
is available this week, so also joins the ranks of people appearing on two 
hits simultaneously.

>Coldplay #8,

Unless I'm vastly mistaken, this is the highest position yet for a 
digital-only release - admittedly there is a 7" version on the front of this 
week's NME but that's obviously irrelevant in chart terms.

> Kylie #10
>
> Yay! Kylie's loyal fans rally round her to just keep her top 10 run 
> going - now at 16 & counting! :)

For a moment I thought that said "just to keep her top 10 run going" - which 
would be fairly plausible, given the weakness of this track. Apparently it 
was produced by Calvin Harris, which explains a lot.

> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,

A cover of Bobby Womack's 1976 track, which was apparently recorded for the 
new Asterix movie.
The version without that divot from Gym Class Heroes is listenable enough, 
but she doesn't really sell the song.

> James Fox #15,

Just a couple of places shy of his previous peak, when he represented the UK 
in Eurovision 2004. You can tell how successful he was by the fact that no 
new act has been "our" entry since. And perhaps you can tell how successful 
Cardiff were from the fact that this is about a game they won 80 years ago, 
but then I don't want to go too far down that road.
Incidentally, although this is not the only Cardiff supporters' record, 
there's no sign of one for the other team.

> Nelly #19

It's not true that this is only on one download site, BTW - I've seen it on 
at least two.

> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,

I didn't even realise this download was coming out so soon. It's arguably 
rather a risky strategy, especially when he only managed one real hit off 
this last album.

> Pigeon Detectives #24,

Out tomorrow on CD & 7"s.

> Sara Bareilles #30

Is this really a summery-sounding record?

> Top 40 : Wideboys #32,

Featuring Shaznay Lewis - evidently this is what you do when the solo career 
fails and the band reunion doesn't last.

>Santogold #37

Really not selling many physicals then. Perhaps all the people who'd been 
reading about her online for ages actually saw her on telly and realised 
this wasn't very good.

> New Entries outside the top 40 (plus new peaks) : Lil Wayne #42,

Still haven't heard this.

> Cassie #52,

Out on CD tomorrow, which is presumably why it's climbing now.

>Captain #53,

The song's called 'Keep An Open Mind' but the record company must be getting 
tempted to close theirs.

>Taio Cruz #54,

Out on CD on the 26th.

> Lil Mama #57,

Not actually anyone's mother, AFAICT.

>  Paramore #71

Out on CD tomorrow, although it seems a bit late now. Are they on tour?

> Re-entries : Aerosmith (IDWTMAT) #68,

I was quite happy to miss this thing, actually.

> Kanye West (Hc) #73

Possibly because Chris Martin is back in people's minds, although it was 
only at 79 last week so there may not be a substantial sales gain.

> Albums
> ------
> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off 
> the #1 spot!

They are, to quote one of their earlier hit titles, 'Back In The UK!' and I 
don't think you need to be a Scooter fan to be entertained by the fact.
Apparently their thirteenth studio album (and, clearly, unlucky for some) 
Jumping All Over The World comes with a bonus disc of their biggest hits, 
from 'Posse' to 'I'm Raving' to 'Apache Rocks The Bottom'.

> New Entries/New Peaks
> ---------------------
> Top 10 : Sam Sparro #4, Platters #8,

A bit of a quiet week, then.

>Def Leppard #10

Apparently their first new material since 2002, this album apparently 
contains no ballads, but they continue their fondness for unlikely guest 
stars with Tim McGraw on the radio single 'Nine Lives'. There's the 
obligatory deluxe version with bonus DVD of course.

> Top 20 : Hadouken #12,

Although the album's called Music For An Accelerated Culture, it actually 
feels rather late in arriving: it's almost a year since the "grindie" stars 
cracked the Top 40 with 'Liquid Lives' and longer still since they first 
attracted attention with 'That Boy That Girl' (which JK & Joel actually 
played the week 'Liquid Lives' was in the chart). Since they'd already 
released a USB-only compilation, I was rather thinking there wouldn't be an 
album - but evidently they just hadn't written enough songs yet.

>Willie Nelson #16

Quite possibly the only act in this week's chart with his own line in 
biodiesel. Perhaps surprisingly, this is the first ever UK chart album for 
him, a retrospective including his collaborations with Julio Iglesias, Ray 
Charles and Waylon Jennings - but thankfully no Jessica Simpson.
If this isn't enough Willie for you, a four-CD box set was released on the 
same day.

> New outside the top 20 : Jack McManus #22,

I presume this album is called Either Side Of Midnight because it'll send 
you to sleep at any time of day. I've heard a couple of tracks and it's the 
sort of thing you'd tend to expect, but with more keyboards.

> Frankie Valli #25,

The sleeve says:
FRANKIE VALLI
THE FOUR SEASONS
...presumably to head off any objections to the "Frankie Valli And The Four 
Seasons" billing they sometimes used.
This album was first issued in February to tie in with the musical, but 
seems to have been re-activated this week: over 2 CDs it covers all the 
obvious hits, as well as their originals of 'Bye Bye Baby' and 'The Sun 
Ain't Gonna Shine Anymore'. I suppose the Ultimate Collection last July was 
a lie, then.

>Delays #26,

A couple of places behind the peak of You See Colours two years ago, but 
given the lack of promotion that put paid to their run of Top 40 singles 
even that looks like quite a victory. Word is that this is a better album 
than the last one.

>Steve Winwood #31

As an early present for his sixtieth birthday tomorrow, Muff's brother 
enjoys his highest-charting album since 1990, and a major improvement over 
the Number 97 peak of his last set, About Time. The "single" 'Dirty City' 
features his old collaborator Eric Clapton, and of course there's a deluxe 
version with a DVD too.

> Next Week
> ---------
> Singles
> -------
> Pick a number!
>
> Could be any one of Madonna, Sam Sparro, Wiley or >Coldplay

I was hoping you meant it was between 911, 112 and the 22-20s. ;-)

> Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)

Doing remarkably well on iTunes, although logic would suggest that it would 
be harder than usual for them to top the chart.

> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)

Decidedly possible.

> Top 20 : Pigeon Detectives,

I suppose from 23 it's not entirely out of the question that they might slip 
into the Top 10 - but on past form it doesn't seem entirely likely.

>Ting Tings

If the reported sales of the last single are true, this seems decidedly 
possible, although this song may not be as popular.

> Top 30 : David Jordan

I tend to think that if this was going to become a major hit, it already 
would have.

> Top 40 : Cassie,

Sounds about right.

> GCWCF,

I think this has been cancelled.

> Justice,

On past form, no.

> Lil Mama,

Plausible from the present position.

>Paramore

Can there really be that many people who actually like them and haven't 
already got this?

> Any other possibilities?

It's not a busy week, but there is a rival Cardiff City track coming out 
apparently. Hot Chip are theoretically following up a Top Ten single, but 
who's heard the new one.
Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday, so we'll have another gap 
in the mids.

> Albums
> ------
> Again, the field is wide open. Lots of new albums, but nothing obvious 
> stands out.

On the face of it, it doesn't seem very likely that Scooter could manage a 
second week at the top - but then it didn't seem very likely they'd manage 
the first week either, so who knows?

> I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition',

Not a very obvious choice, bearing in mind the lack of really big hits and 
the number of people who already have the original album.

> or Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' -

Again, there's a bit of a clue in the title to what might hold this back - 
but I suppose you can't totally ignore them either in a quiet week.

>but asfter this week's surprise, who knows? :)

Ooops, I've just said that.

> Top 10 NE : Charlatans,

Pretty unlikely, bearing in mind that it suffers the same handicaps as the 
single (well, the record company have acknowledged its existence, but that's 
about all the effort they've made). I'm sure it will chart, but not up here.

>Kelly Rowland,

I suppose the question has to be whether 'Daylight' was really successful 
enough to help sell a rehashed album.

>Pendulum

Seems a reasonably safe bet.

> Top 20 NE : Isobell Campbell,

And Mark Lanegan, who I think is worth mentioning in this context - their 
last album together went Top 40, but her solo albums have never charted.

>Jay Sean,

If nothing else, the lengthy chart run of the first single suggests a market 
remains for him.

>Moby,

I suppose so, although he's had no luck with singles this time.

>Neil Diamond,

That looks rather low when he's following a Top 5.He could even be a 
possibility for the top.

> Searchers

Always hard to tell with non-topical best-ofs, but the present band do seem 
to be promoting it.

> Others : Barenaked Ladies,

Not really a major chart act here.

>DCFC,

Dream City Film Club? Daniel Cecil Fintan Craig?

>Frank Sinatra,

>Josh Groban, Martha Wainwright, Santogold

These all look plausible, but I couldn't be specific.
And what about Alphabeat?

    Chris

On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 00:34:21, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :

>
>"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message
>news:brXKBeCo6zJIFwjM@blueyonder.co.uk...
>> Singles
>> -------
>> Madonna unexpectedly holds off Wiley, to claim a 4th week at #1.
>
>What an unattractive mental image that is!

For him, or her? :)
>
>> New Entries/New Peaks
>> ---------------------
>> Top 10 : Wiley #2,
>
>I've never heard the original BTW.

Count yourself lucky.
>
>>Will.I.Am #4,
>
>In which Cheryl Cole finally acheives her long-held ambition of appearing in
>the video to one of her own records.

Grin.

> And as the version she contributes to
>is available this week, so also joins the ranks of people appearing on two
>hits simultaneously.

She doesn't *join* the ranks - Girls Aloud have had more than one hit in 
the T40 several times, most recently on 8/3/08 with CTS at #34 & CSF at 
#35.

Of course that comment may just have been ironic...
>
>>Coldplay #8,
>
>Unless I'm vastly mistaken, this is the highest position yet for a
>digital-only release - admittedly there is a 7" version on the front of this
>week's NME but that's obviously irrelevant in chart terms.

I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?
>
>> Kylie #10
>>
>> Yay! Kylie's loyal fans rally round her to just keep her top 10 run
>> going - now at 16 & counting! :)
>
>For a moment I thought that said "just to keep her top 10 run going" - which
>would be fairly plausible, given the weakness of this track.

Well, if it had been the 2nd, and Wow the 3rd, the latter wouldn't have 
made the T10 - IMO.
>
>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>The version without that divot from Gym Class Heroes is listenable enough,
>but she doesn't really sell the song.

Other than to the 10-12k people she *did* sell it to, last week? :)

But this is on full release, so a T10 position looks unlikely now.
>
>> James Fox #15,
>
>Just a couple of places shy of his previous peak, when he represented the UK
>in Eurovision 2004. You can tell how successful he was by the fact that no
>new act has been "our" entry since. And perhaps you can tell how successful
>Cardiff were from the fact that this is about a game they won 80 years ago,
>but then I don't want to go too far down that road.
>Incidentally, although this is not the only Cardiff supporters' record,
>there's no sign of one for the other team.

This is the type of record that's likely to plummet 50+ places next 
week, though.
>
>> Nelly #19
>
>It's not true that this is only on one download site, BTW - I've seen it on
>at least two.

You actually went *looking* for it?
>
>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>
>I didn't even realise this download was coming out so soon. It's arguably
>rather a risky strategy, especially when he only managed one real hit off
>this last album.

I did already mention somewhere that this was charting 9 weeks early.
>
>> Pigeon Detectives #24,
>
>Out tomorrow on CD & 7"s.

Like either of us cares. :)
>
>> Sara Bareilles #30
>
>Is this really a summery-sounding record?

Yes.
>
>> New Entries outside the top 40 (plus new peaks) : Lil Wayne #42,
>
>Still haven't heard this.

Not due out on CD until 2nd June, but with the way it's stalling 
already, it quite possibly never will be.

Radio hasn't touched it with a barge-pole (yet).
>
>> Cassie #52,
>
>Out on CD tomorrow, which is presumably why it's climbing now.

But with already 8 weeks download sales under her belt, probably limited 
scope for physical sales.
>
>>Taio Cruz #54,
>
>Out on CD on the 26th.

Hopefully it'll stall & die by then.
>
>> Lil Mama #57,
>
>Not actually anyone's mother, AFAICT.

Ditto.
>
>>  Paramore #71
>
>Out on CD tomorrow, although it seems a bit late now. Are they on tour?

No idea - but their album seems to be a steady-seller, albeit mostly 
outside the T75.
>
>> Re-entries : Aerosmith (IDWTMAT) #68,
>
>I was quite happy to miss this thing, actually.

Wonder what woke it up this time?
>
>> Albums
>> ------
>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off
>> the #1 spot!
>
>They are, to quote one of their earlier hit titles, 'Back In The UK!' and I
>don't think you need to be a Scooter fan to be entertained by the fact.
>Apparently their thirteenth studio album (and, clearly, unlucky for some)
>Jumping All Over The World comes with a bonus disc of their biggest hits,
>from 'Posse' to 'I'm Raving' to 'Apache Rocks The Bottom'.

IMO JAOTW could be a big hit - a very catchy song, and due out on the 
9th June.
>
>> New Entries/New Peaks
>> ---------------------
>> Top 10 : Sam Sparro #4, Platters #8,
>
>A bit of a quiet week, then.

Only near the top.
>
>> Top 20 : Hadouken #12,

Disappointed that Ms Cilmi fell to #14 - expected her to climb.
>
>>Willie Nelson #16
>
>Perhaps surprisingly, this is the first ever UK chart album for
>him

So surprising I had to check that, but you're right!

>, a retrospective including his collaborations with Julio Iglesias, Ray
>Charles and Waylon Jennings - but thankfully no Jessica Simpson.

If it's his first UK GH album, that explains the relatively good sales.
>
>> New outside the top 20 :
>
>>Delays #26,
>
>A couple of places behind the peak of You See Colours two years ago, but
>given the lack of promotion that put paid to their run of Top 40 singles
>even that looks like quite a victory. Word is that this is a better album
>than the last one.

How much is that actually saying, though?
>
>> Next Week
>> ---------
>> Singles
>> -------
>
>> Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)
>
>Doing remarkably well on iTunes, although logic would suggest that it would
>be harder than usual for them to top the chart.

Harder than never having done it before?
>
>> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
>
>Decidedly possible.

Not an exciting video though - just her doing a 'Sinead O'Connor' 
throughout.
>
>> Top 20 : Pigeon Detectives,
>
>I suppose from 23 it's not entirely out of the question that they might slip
>into the Top 10 - but on past form it doesn't seem entirely likely.

I hope you're right.
>
>>Ting Tings
>
>If the reported sales of the last single are true

It's #58 YTD, despite not being chart-eligible.

>, this seems decidedly
>possible, although this song may not be as popular.

It'll presumably revive the last one though, if it does chart.
>
>> Top 40 :
>
>> GCWCF,
>
>I think this has been cancelled.

Don't know, don't care.
>
>>Paramore
>
>Can there really be that many people who actually like them and haven't
>already got this?

Well, they went T20 last time.

>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday, so we'll have another gap
>in the mids.

You think it'll sell enough to get in them at any point?
>
>> Albums
>> ------
>> I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition',
>
>Not a very obvious choice, bearing in mind the lack of really big hits and
>the number of people who already have the original album.

Loads of people already had the original BTB album, but that didn't stop 
the SE of it going to #1...
>
>> or Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' -
>
>Again, there's a bit of a clue in the title to what might hold this back

But that was their best era...
>
>> Top 10 NE :
>
>>Pendulum
>
>Seems a reasonably safe bet.

Unfortunately.
>
>> Top 20 NE :
>
>>Moby,
>
>I suppose so, although he's had no luck with singles this time.

You usually don't, if you don't bother releasing any... :)
>
>>Neil Diamond,
>
>That looks rather low when he's following a Top 5.He could even be a
>possibility for the top.

If you thought *Scooter* was an unlikely #1...
>
>>DCFC,
>
>Dream City Film Club? Daniel Cecil Fintan Craig?

Death Cab For Cutie.
>
>>Frank Sinatra,
>
>>Josh Groban, Martha Wainwright, Santogold
>
>These all look plausible, but I couldn't be specific.
>And what about Alphabeat?

Not 3 weeks before its release date - namely 2nd June...
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

Paul Hyett wrote:

> Next Week
> ---------
> Albums
> ------
> Others : Barenaked Ladies

Been delayed to 26th May. Plus it's an album aimed at kids, in the vein 
of They Might Be Giants' "No!" - I'd have thought it had far less chance 
of charting than their last two studio albums, "Barenaked Ladies Are Me" 
and "Barenaked Ladies Are Men", and I don't think either of them managed 
T75.

Cheers
Wesley Mead

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:57:31 +0100, Paul Hyett  
 wrote:


> Albums
> ------
> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off  
> the #1 spot!
>

This has made my year! I don't like Scooter, but I just find it amusing
that despite Madonna having some of the coolest collaborators on her
latest album, she's been knocked off the top spot by the uncoolest and
cheesiest dance music group of all time!

Fred X

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:$maTSxCcV+JIFwX4@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 00:34:21, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>
>>
>>"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message
>>news:brXKBeCo6zJIFwjM@blueyonder.co.uk...
>>> Singles
>>> -------
>>> Madonna unexpectedly holds off Wiley, to claim a 4th week at #1.
>>
>>What an unattractive mental image that is!
>
> For him, or her? :)

For me, thinking about it!

>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>> ---------------------
>>> Top 10 : Wiley #2,
>>
>>I've never heard the original BTW.
>
> Count yourself lucky.

The record it samples, I meant. I thought that might be a bit more up your 
street.

>>>Will.I.Am #4,
>>
>>In which Cheryl Cole finally acheives her long-held ambition of appearing 
>>in
>>the video to one of her own records.
>
> Grin.

It always seemed a bit suspicious didn't it?

>> And as the version she contributes to
>>is available this week, so also joins the ranks of people appearing on two
>>hits simultaneously.
>
> She doesn't *join* the ranks - Girls Aloud have had more than one hit in 
> the T40 several times, most recently on 8/3/08 with CTS at #34 & CSF at 
> #35.
>
> Of course that comment may just have been ironic...

Well, I was thinking more along the lines of her being one of several people 
with two hits in this chart. But I realise that's not very clear.

>>>Coldplay #8,
>>
>>Unless I'm vastly mistaken, this is the highest position yet for a
>>digital-only release - admittedly there is a 7" version on the front of 
>>this
>>week's NME but that's obviously irrelevant in chart terms.
>
> I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?

Well, have you heard anything about it ever coming out on CDS? Obviously the 
album's going to be released on CD, but that's probably not what you meant.

>>> Kylie #10
>>>
>>> Yay! Kylie's loyal fans rally round her to just keep her top 10 run
>>> going - now at 16 & counting! :)
>>
>>For a moment I thought that said "just to keep her top 10 run going" - 
>>which
>>would be fairly plausible, given the weakness of this track.
>
> Well, if it had been the 2nd, and Wow the 3rd, the latter wouldn't have 
> made the T10 - IMO.

Although, FWIW, 'Wow' was a bigger radio hit. And obviously it had the plum 
promotional slots, though that's largely a matter of timing.

>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>>The version without that divot from Gym Class Heroes is listenable enough,
>>but she doesn't really sell the song.
>
> Other than to the 10-12k people she *did* sell it to, last week? :)

Of course, I meant artistically, rather than commercially.

>>> James Fox #15,
>>
>>Just a couple of places shy of his previous peak, when he represented the 
>>UK
>>in Eurovision 2004. You can tell how successful he was by the fact that no
>>new act has been "our" entry since. And perhaps you can tell how 
>>successful
>>Cardiff were from the fact that this is about a game they won 80 years 
>>ago,
>>but then I don't want to go too far down that road.
>>Incidentally, although this is not the only Cardiff supporters' record,
>>there's no sign of one for the other team.
>
> This is the type of record that's likely to plummet 50+ places next week, 
> though.

Perhaps, although FWIW the Cup Final is this coming Saturday.

>>> Nelly #19
>>
>>It's not true that this is only on one download site, BTW - I've seen it 
>>on
>>at least two.
>
> You actually went *looking* for it?

I already knew it was on one, so I only had to glance at the iTunes chart 
and - Bingo! It just didn't seem believeable.

>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>
>>I didn't even realise this download was coming out so soon. It's arguably
>>rather a risky strategy, especially when he only managed one real hit off
>>this last album.
>
> I did already mention somewhere that this was charting 9 weeks early.

Indeed so - but it hadn't occured to me until then.
Mind you, I'm sure I've seen release dates in June, which aren't 9 weeks 
away.

>>> Sara Bareilles #30
>>
>>Is this really a summery-sounding record?
>
> Yes.

Maybe they should have released it later then.

>>> New Entries outside the top 40 (plus new peaks) : Lil Wayne #42,
>>
>>Still haven't heard this.
>
> Not due out on CD until 2nd June, but with the way it's stalling already, 
> it quite possibly never will be.
>
> Radio hasn't touched it with a barge-pole (yet).

Presumably people are hearing it somewhere though - clubs maybe, or the 
telly?

>>> Cassie #52,
>>
>>Out on CD tomorrow, which is presumably why it's climbing now.
>
> But with already 8 weeks download sales under her belt, probably limited 
> scope for physical sales.

Agreed - I just mean that the promotion will have been timed around this 
date.

>>> Re-entries : Aerosmith (IDWTMAT) #68,
>>
>>I was quite happy to miss this thing, actually.
>
> Wonder what woke it up this time?

Didn't some twerp sing in on Britain's Got Talent (And Piers Morgan)?

>>> Albums
>>> ------
>>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off
>>> the #1 spot!
>>
>>They are, to quote one of their earlier hit titles, 'Back In The UK!' and 
>>I
>>don't think you need to be a Scooter fan to be entertained by the fact.
>>Apparently their thirteenth studio album (and, clearly, unlucky for some)
>>Jumping All Over The World comes with a bonus disc of their biggest hits,
>>from 'Posse' to 'I'm Raving' to 'Apache Rocks The Bottom'.
>
> IMO JAOTW could be a big hit - a very catchy song, and due out on the 9th 
> June.

It could, although it's curious that the previous one did so poorly.

>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>> ---------------------

>>>Willie Nelson #16
>>
>>Perhaps surprisingly, this is the first ever UK chart album for
>>him
>
> So surprising I had to check that, but you're right!

I was fully expecting to type something about it being "his first chart 
album since...." but it turns out to have been since ever.

>>, a retrospective including his collaborations with Julio Iglesias, Ray
>>Charles and Waylon Jennings - but thankfully no Jessica Simpson.
>
> If it's his first UK GH album, that explains the relatively good sales.

I don't think it is - he's definitely had other compilations in the budget 
chart before. And as you might have seen, he never had that many hits here.

>>> New outside the top 20 :
>>
>>>Delays #26,
>>
>>A couple of places behind the peak of You See Colours two years ago, but
>>given the lack of promotion that put paid to their run of Top 40 singles
>>even that looks like quite a victory. Word is that this is a better album
>>than the last one.
>
> How much is that actually saying, though?

Depends how much better it is - I haven't actually got it yet. I wasn't very 
impressed by the 'Hooray' single, but I liked the EP before that a bit 
better.

>>> Next Week
>>> ---------
>>> Singles
>>> -------
>>
>>> Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)
>>
>>Doing remarkably well on iTunes, although logic would suggest that it 
>>would
>>be harder than usual for them to top the chart.
>
> Harder than never having done it before?

That's what I mean - 'Speed Of Sound' and 'In My Place' couldn't manage it 
with physical formats, more pre-release airplay, not as many free copies 
given away etc.

>>> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
>>
>>Decidedly possible.
>
> Not an exciting video though - just her doing a 'Sinead O'Connor' 
> throughout.

I didn't think 'Mercy' was a great vid either. Perhaps it's intentional.

>>> Top 20 : Pigeon Detectives,
>>
>>I suppose from 23 it's not entirely out of the question that they might 
>>slip
>>into the Top 10 - but on past form it doesn't seem entirely likely.
>
> I hope you're right.

Not that it'd be the end of the world anyway.

>>>Ting Tings
>>
>>If the reported sales of the last single are true
>
> It's #58 YTD, despite not being chart-eligible.

>>, this seems decidedly
>>possible, although this song may not be as popular.
>
> It'll presumably revive the last one though, if it does chart.

Not if it's ineligble though?

>>> Top 40 :
>>
>>> GCWCF,
>>>Paramore
>>
>>Can there really be that many people who actually like them and haven't
>>already got this?
>
> Well, they went T20 last time.

But not the time before or the time before that.

>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday, so we'll have another 
>>gap
>>in the mids.
>
> You think it'll sell enough to get in them at any point?

I don't see why not, since singles from new Cure albums seem to do OK. Not 
that there have been all that many of them to go on recently.

>>> Albums
>>> ------
>>> I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition',
>>
>>Not a very obvious choice, bearing in mind the lack of really big hits and
>>the number of people who already have the original album.
>
> Loads of people already had the original BTB album, but that didn't stop 
> the SE of it going to #1...

It didn't enter at that position.

>>> or Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' -
>>
>>Again, there's a bit of a clue in the title to what might hold this back
>
> But that was their best era...

Are you sure? I'm not certain I'd feel confident pronouncing on that. 
Anyway, the fact that it's a lot of very old material might make it even 
more specialist than usual.

>>> Top 20 NE :
>>
>>>Moby,
>>
>>I suppose so, although he's had no luck with singles this time.
>
> You usually don't, if you don't bother releasing any... :)

Some people would call that pretty good luck for the rest of us. But anyway, 
he did: 'Alice' came out in March and was so massively successful they 
postponed the (physical) album for a month.

>>>Neil Diamond,
>>
>>That looks rather low when he's following a Top 5.He could even be a
>>possibility for the top.
>
> If you thought *Scooter* was an unlikely #1...

...The the guy who had a Top 5 album much more recently, has topped the 
chart on several previous occasions and is being worshipped by Radio 2 this 
month would be a much less unlikely one?

>>>DCFC,
>>
>>Dream City Film Club? Daniel Cecil Fintan Craig?
>
> Death Cab For Cutie.

Ah. This is why I try to avoid reducing act names to initials (other than 
ones like OMD and ELO who are commonly known that way) - they're actually 
quite opaque if you don't know what to expect.
Anyway, I'm sort of undecided on this one.

>>And what about Alphabeat?
>
> Not 3 weeks before its release date - namely 2nd June...

This is another where no two sources seem to agree. But I didn't see any 
copies on the shelves today, so I'll take the later date to be correct.

    Chris

On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 20:15:44, Fred X  wrote in 
uk.music.charts :

>On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:57:31 +0100, Paul Hyett 
> wrote:
>
>
>> Albums
>> ------
>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna 
>>off   the #1 spot!
>>
>This has made my year! I don't like Scooter, but I just find it amusing
>that despite Madonna having some of the coolest collaborators on her
>latest album

Maybe not 'despite', but 'because of'?

Given the probable age of a significant part of her fanbase: 30-40's 
(myself included) - I doubt they would be so ready to consider such 
collaborators 'cool'.

>, she's been knocked off the top spot by the uncoolest and
>cheesiest dance music group of all time!

I wouldn't go quite *that* far. :)
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 23:22:59, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :

>>>> Singles
>>>> -------
>>>> Madonna unexpectedly holds off Wiley, to claim a 4th week at #1.
>>>
>>>What an unattractive mental image that is!
>>
>> For him, or her? :)
>
>For me, thinking about it!

Grin.
>
>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>> ---------------------
>>>> Top 10 : Wiley #2,
>>>
>>>I've never heard the original BTW.
>>
>> Count yourself lucky.
>
>The record it samples, I meant.

Oh right.
>
>>>>Will.I.Am #4,
>
>>> And as the version she contributes to
>>>is available this week, so also joins the ranks of people appearing on two
>>>hits simultaneously.
>>
>> She doesn't *join* the ranks - Girls Aloud have had more than one hit in
>> the T40 several times, most recently on 8/3/08 with CTS at #34 & CSF at
>> #35.
>>
>> Of course that comment may just have been ironic...
>
>Well, I was thinking more along the lines of her being one of several people
>with two hits in this chart. But I realise that's not very clear.

To say the least. :)
>
>>>>Coldplay #8,
>>>
>>>Unless I'm vastly mistaken, this is the highest position yet for a
>>>digital-only release - admittedly there is a 7" version on the front of
>>>this
>>>week's NME but that's obviously irrelevant in chart terms.
>>
>> I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?
>
>Well, have you heard anything about it ever coming out on CDS?

Well, I couldn't see it on the NR sched, but I assumed that *had* to be 
a mistake - one of the biggest bands not releasing the first single from 
their new album in physical format...

> Obviously the
>album's going to be released on CD, but that's probably not what you meant.

So - how many do you think their album will sell 1st week?

Given the decline in album sales generally, I would say no more than 
250k - though most, if not all, of the individual tracks will probably 
chart in the singles T200.
>
>>>> Kylie #10
>>>
>>>For a moment I thought that said "just to keep her top 10 run going" -
>>>which
>>>would be fairly plausible, given the weakness of this track.
>>
>> Well, if it had been the 2nd, and Wow the 3rd, the latter wouldn't have
>> made the T10 - IMO.
>
>Although, FWIW, 'Wow' was a bigger radio hit.

Though 'In My Arms' *is* #5 on airplay this week.

> And obviously it had the plum
>promotional slots, though that's largely a matter of timing.

BTW, I reckon 50% of her sales must have been physical last week, as the 
was just #23 on downloads, which probably equates to around 6k virtual 
sales. Overall she sold 12.206.

Also, this was her 32nd top 10 hit - not many have had more...
>
>>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>>>The version without that divot from Gym Class Heroes is listenable enough,
>>>but she doesn't really sell the song.
>>
>> Other than to the 10-12k people she *did* sell it to, last week? :)
>
>Of course, I meant artistically, rather than commercially.

Or 'promotionally'?
>
>>>> James Fox #15,
>>
>> This is the type of record that's likely to plummet 50+ places next week,
>> though.
>
>Perhaps, although FWIW the Cup Final is this coming Saturday.

But since it will sell *only* to CCFC fans, and only a small proportion 
of *them*...
>
>>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>>
>>>I didn't even realise this download was coming out so soon.
>>
>> I did already mention somewhere that this was charting 9 weeks early.
>
>Indeed so - but it hadn't occured to me until then.
>Mind you, I'm sure I've seen release dates in June, which aren't 9 weeks
>away.

His listed release date of 30th June is, or at least was, when I made 
the original comment.

I simply can't see the date holding up though - either they'll bring it 
forward significantly, or abandon the physical release altogether. What 
would be the point in releasing a song on CD which, by that time, will 
surely be long past its sales peak. Has it even been released to radio 
yet?

It does have a video since it's already out in America - but I haven't 
seen it on TV here yet, but it's a boring one.
>
>>>> Sara Bareilles #30
>>>
>>>Is this really a summery-sounding record?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>Maybe they should have released it later then.

The recent weather suggests otherwise.

In any case, you wouldn't normally release a song titled, say, 
'Umbrella' in the summer... :)
>
>>>> New Entries outside the top 40 (plus new peaks) : Lil Wayne #42,
>>>
>>>Still haven't heard this.
>>
>> Not due out on CD until 2nd June, but with the way it's stalling already,
>> it quite possibly never will be.
>>
>> Radio hasn't touched it with a barge-pole (yet).
>
>Presumably people are hearing it somewhere though - clubs maybe, or the
>telly?

I've seen it on Sky, but it's not in the TV play T40.
>
>>>> Cassie #52,
>>>
>>>Out on CD tomorrow, which is presumably why it's climbing now.
>>
>> But with already 8 weeks download sales under her belt, probably limited
>> scope for physical sales.
>
>Agreed - I just mean that the promotion will have been timed around this
>date.

What promo - it's never even gone T100 on airplay AFAIK?
>
>>>> Albums
>>>> ------
>>>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna off
>>>> the #1 spot!

>>>Jumping All Over The World comes with a bonus disc of their biggest hits,
>>>from 'Posse' to 'I'm Raving' to 'Apache Rocks The Bottom'.
>>
>> IMO JAOTW could be a big hit - a very catchy song, and due out on the 9th
>> June.
>
>It could, although it's curious that the previous one did so poorly.

Well, they're not exactly top priority for UK radio. :)
>
>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>> ---------------------
>
>>>>Willie Nelson #16
>>
>> If it's his first UK GH album, that explains the relatively good sales.
>
>I don't think it is - he's definitely had other compilations in the budget
>chart before. And as you might have seen, he never had that many hits here.

So what's new, for US country singers... :)
>>>
>>>>Delays #26,
>>>
>>>A couple of places behind the peak of You See Colours two years ago, but
>>>given the lack of promotion that put paid to their run of Top 40 singles
>>>even that looks like quite a victory. Word is that this is a better album
>>>than the last one.
>>
>> How much is that actually saying, though?
>
>Depends how much better it is - I haven't actually got it yet.

You seem to buy albums from most indie bands of this type.
>
>>>> Next Week
>>>> ---------
>>>> Singles
>>>> -------
>>>
>>>> Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)
>>>
>>>Doing remarkably well on iTunes, although logic would suggest that it
>>>would
>>>be harder than usual for them to top the chart.
>>
>> Harder than never having done it before?
>
>That's what I mean - 'Speed Of Sound' and 'In My Place' couldn't manage it
>with physical formats, more pre-release airplay, not as many free copies
>given away etc.

Of course, when I wrote the above, I had no idea that it might not even 
be released in physical format. If anything, that's likely to boost 
album sales, as people who want it in physical format will have no 
choice.
>
>>>> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
>>
>> Not an exciting video though - just her doing a 'Sinead O'Connor'
>> throughout.
>
>I didn't think 'Mercy' was a great vid either.

What about the Rockferry vid?
>
>>>>Ting Tings
>>>
>>>If the reported sales of the last single are true
>>
>> It's #58 YTD, despite not being chart-eligible.
>
>>>, this seems decidedly
>>>possible, although this song may not be as popular.
>>
>> It'll presumably revive the last one though, if it does chart.
>
>Not if it's ineligble though?

But that doesn't mean its sales won't increase.
>
>
>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday, so we'll have another
>>>gap
>>>in the mids.
>>
>> You think it'll sell enough to get in them at any point?
>
>I don't see why not, since singles from new Cure albums seem to do OK. Not
>that there have been all that many of them to go on recently.

But they are another group whose fanbase is from the physical single 
era*, so that won't be an advantage to them now.

* Even *I* have one of their singles - Lovecats.
>
>>>> Albums
>>>> ------
>>>> I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition',
>>>
>>>Not a very obvious choice, bearing in mind the lack of really big hits and
>>>the number of people who already have the original album.
>>
>> Loads of people already had the original BTB album, but that didn't stop
>> the SE of it going to #1...
>
>It didn't enter at that position.

So?
>
>>>> or Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' -
>>>
>>>Again, there's a bit of a clue in the title to what might hold this back
>>
>> But that was their best era...
>
>Are you sure? I'm not certain I'd feel confident pronouncing on that.

In chart terms, it was.

Yes, they had a number of T10 hits in the 90's, but they were 
ultra-front-loaded - zero staying power.
>
>>>>Neil Diamond,
>>>
>>>That looks rather low when he's following a Top 5.He could even be a
>>>possibility for the top.
>>
>> If you thought *Scooter* was an unlikely #1...
>
>...The the guy who had a Top 5 album much more recently, has topped the
>chart on several previous occasions and is being worshipped by Radio 2 this
>month would be a much less unlikely one?

But he's virtually a joke outside his core fanbase.
>
>>>And what about Alphabeat?
>>
>> Not 3 weeks before its release date - namely 2nd June...
>
>This is another where no two sources seem to agree. But I didn't see any
>copies on the shelves today, so I'll take the later date to be correct.

I cannot understand why Fascination has sold so steadily - to me they 
sound just like the kind of boy/girl groups that were regarded as cheesy 
even back in the 80's...
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

On Tue, 13 May 2008 08:05:43 +0100, Paul Hyett  
 wrote:

> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 20:15:44, Fred X  wrote in  
> uk.music.charts :
>
>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:57:31 +0100, Paul Hyett  
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Albums
>>> ------
>>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna  
>>> off   the #1 spot!
>>>
>> This has made my year! I don't like Scooter, but I just find it amusing
>> that despite Madonna having some of the coolest collaborators on her
>> latest album
>
> Maybe not 'despite', but 'because of'?
>
> Given the probable age of a significant part of her fanbase: 30-40's  
> (myself included) - I doubt they would be so ready to consider such  
> collaborators 'cool'.

Well the odd thing about her using Timberlake, Timbaland and Pharrel
Williams is that they are "so last year" and she usually uses "cutting
edge" producers like Stuart Price or Mirwais.


Fred X

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:KqDeBfG2rTKIFwZe@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 at 23:22:59, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>
>>>>> Singles
>>>>> -------
>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>> Top 10 : Wiley #2,
>>>>
>>>>I've never heard the original BTW.
>>>
>>> Count yourself lucky.
>>
>>The record it samples, I meant.
>
> Oh right.

So, anyway, I haven't heard it.

>>>>>Coldplay #8,
>>>>
>>>>Unless I'm vastly mistaken, this is the highest position yet for a
>>>>digital-only release - admittedly there is a 7" version on the front of
>>>>this
>>>>week's NME but that's obviously irrelevant in chart terms.
>>>
>>> I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?
>>
>>Well, have you heard anything about it ever coming out on CDS?
>
> Well, I couldn't see it on the NR sched, but I assumed that *had* to be a 
> mistake - one of the biggest bands not releasing the first single from 
> their new album in physical format...

Next thing you know, they'll be doing something crazy like letting people 
download it for free.

>> Obviously the
>>album's going to be released on CD, but that's probably not what you 
>>meant.
>
> So - how many do you think their album will sell 1st week?

Lots. ;-)

> Given the decline in album sales generally, I would say no more than 
> 250k - though most, if not all, of the individual tracks will probably 
> chart in the singles T200.

This is the sort of level I was thinking of too, bearing in mind the overall 
dip in sales, the signs of backlash (which tends to happen after these 
record-breaking albums anyway) and so on.

>>>>> Kylie #10
>>>>
>>>>For a moment I thought that said "just to keep her top 10 run going" -
>>>>which
>>>>would be fairly plausible, given the weakness of this track.
>>>
>>> Well, if it had been the 2nd, and Wow the 3rd, the latter wouldn't have
>>> made the T10 - IMO.
>>
>>Although, FWIW, 'Wow' was a bigger radio hit.
>
> Though 'In My Arms' *is* #5 on airplay this week.

'Wow' must have got higher though, surely?

>>>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>>>>The version without that divot from Gym Class Heroes is listenable 
>>>>enough,
>>>>but she doesn't really sell the song.
>>>
>>> Other than to the 10-12k people she *did* sell it to, last week? :)
>>
>>Of course, I meant artistically, rather than commercially.
>
> Or 'promotionally'?

Are you suggesting I did mean that or I didn't?

>>>>> James Fox #15,
>>>
>>> This is the type of record that's likely to plummet 50+ places next 
>>> week,
>>> though.
>>
>>Perhaps, although FWIW the Cup Final is this coming Saturday.
>
> But since it will sell *only* to CCFC fans, and only a small proportion of 
> *them*...

Oh yeah, I get all that.
I just mean that releasing it ahead of the final might have given it 
slightly more longevity than if they'd released it in the exact week.

>>>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>>>
>>>>I didn't even realise this download was coming out so soon.
>>>
>>> I did already mention somewhere that this was charting 9 weeks early.
>>
>>Indeed so - but it hadn't occured to me until then.
>>Mind you, I'm sure I've seen release dates in June, which aren't 9 weeks
>>away.
>
> His listed release date of 30th June is, or at least was, when I made the 
> original comment.
>
> I simply can't see the date holding up though - either they'll bring it 
> forward significantly, or abandon the physical release altogether. What 
> would be the point in releasing a song on CD which, by that time, will 
> surely be long past its sales peak.

That's also after the album, of course. But then, so were his previous hits.

>Has it even been released to radio yet?

Since I've heard it, I think that has to be a yes.

> It does have a video since it's already out in America - but I haven't 
> seen it on TV here yet, but it's a boring one.

How do you know it's boring if you haven't seen it?
I suspect you're right though.

>>>>> Sara Bareilles #30
>>>>
>>>>Is this really a summery-sounding record?
>>>
>>> Yes.
>>
>>Maybe they should have released it later then.
>
> The recent weather suggests otherwise.

It does, but they won't have known that when they scheduled the release.

> In any case, you wouldn't normally release a song titled, say, 'Umbrella' 
> in the summer... :)

Ha!
Obviously, the circumstances are a bit different there.

>>>>> Cassie #52,
>>>>
>>>>Out on CD tomorrow, which is presumably why it's climbing now.
>>>
>>> But with already 8 weeks download sales under her belt, probably limited
>>> scope for physical sales.
>>
>>Agreed - I just mean that the promotion will have been timed around this
>>date.
>
> What promo - it's never even gone T100 on airplay >AFAIK?

I didn't say there was much of it, just that whatever the record company are 
doing they'll be doing around about now.

>>>>> Albums
>>>>> ------
>>>>> One of the biggest surprises of the year, as Scooter knocks Madonna 
>>>>> off
>>>>> the #1 spot!
>
>>>>Jumping All Over The World comes with a bonus disc of their biggest 
>>>>hits,
>>>>from 'Posse' to 'I'm Raving' to 'Apache Rocks The Bottom'.
>>>
>>> IMO JAOTW could be a big hit - a very catchy song, and due out on the 
>>> 9th
>>> June.
>>
>>It could, although it's curious that the previous one did so poorly.
>
> Well, they're not exactly top priority for UK radio. :)

I was thinking of mentioning that myself. Of course, they never have been.

>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>> ---------------------
>>
>>>>>Willie Nelson #16
>>>
>>> If it's his first UK GH album, that explains the relatively good sales.
>>
>>I don't think it is - he's definitely had other compilations in the budget
>>chart before. And as you might have seen, he never had that many hits 
>>here.
>
> So what's new, for US country singers... :)

It doesn't really happen anymore, but there have been country singers who've 
notched up decent numbers of hits. And even fewer from outside the US have 
managed it - I can only think of Shania Twain and Daniel O'Donnell, offhand.

>>>>>Delays #26,
>>>>
>>>>A couple of places behind the peak of You See Colours two years ago, but
>>>>given the lack of promotion that put paid to their run of Top 40 singles
>>>>even that looks like quite a victory. Word is that this is a better 
>>>>album
>>>>than the last one.
>>>
>>> How much is that actually saying, though?
>>
>>Depends how much better it is - I haven't actually got it yet.
>
> You seem to buy albums from most indie bands of this type.

Yes and indeed I have got the previous two Delays albums but for various 
reasons I haven't picked this one up yet.

>>>>> Next Week
>>>>> ---------
>>>>> Singles
>>>>> -------
>>>>
>>>>> Top  5 : Coldplay (if not #1)
>>>>
>>>>Doing remarkably well on iTunes, although logic would suggest that it
>>>>would
>>>>be harder than usual for them to top the chart.
>>>
>>> Harder than never having done it before?
>>
>>That's what I mean - 'Speed Of Sound' and 'In My Place' couldn't manage it
>>with physical formats, more pre-release airplay, not as many free copies
>>given away etc.
>
> Of course, when I wrote the above, I had no idea that it might not even be 
> released in physical format.

Although either way, it obviously wasn't coming out on CD this week.

>>>>> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
>>>
>>> Not an exciting video though - just her doing a 'Sinead O'Connor'
>>> throughout.
>>
>>I didn't think 'Mercy' was a great vid either.
>
> What about the Rockferry vid?

Don't think I ever saw it.

>>>>>Ting Tings
>>>>
>>>>If the reported sales of the last single are true
>>>
>>> It's #58 YTD, despite not being chart-eligible.
>>
>>>>, this seems decidedly
>>>>possible, although this song may not be as popular.
>>>
>>> It'll presumably revive the last one though, if it does chart.
>>
>>Not if it's ineligble though?
>
> But that doesn't mean its sales won't increase.

Depends what you mean by "revive" though.

>>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday, so we'll have another
>>>>gap
>>>>in the mids.
>>>
>>> You think it'll sell enough to get in them at any point?
>>
>>I don't see why not, since singles from new Cure albums seem to do OK. Not
>>that there have been all that many of them to go on recently.
>
> But they are another group whose fanbase is from the physical single era*, 
> so that won't be an advantage to them now.

I know what you mean, but people were still buying their singles as recently 
as 2004 - which was the last time they actually released any, and well after 
they got really serious attention. I'm not saying this is going to go Top 5 
or anything but this far ahead of the album it should creep into the Top 40.

> * Even *I* have one of their singles - Lovecats.

That's the one where they sing about all the cops and robbers isn't it? ;-)
Even I sort of like that one, although that might be partly because I 
suspect it annoys Cure fans.

>>>>> Albums
>>>>> ------
>>>>> I guess the best bet would be either Amy W's 'Frank-Special Edition',
>>>>
>>>>Not a very obvious choice, bearing in mind the lack of really big hits 
>>>>and
>>>>the number of people who already have the original album.
>>>
>>> Loads of people already had the original BTB album, but that didn't stop
>>> the SE of it going to #1...
>>
>>It didn't enter at that position.
>
> So?

So why should this?

>>>>> or Iron Maiden 'Somewhere Back In Time 1980-1989' -
>>>>
>>>>Again, there's a bit of a clue in the title to what might hold this back
>>>
>>> But that was their best era...
>>
>>Are you sure? I'm not certain I'd feel confident pronouncing on that.
>
> In chart terms, it was.

Ah, that's not quite the same thing.

> Yes, they had a number of T10 hits in the 90's, but they were 
> ultra-front-loaded - zero staying power.

Which I suppose is true, mathematically - though I haven't made a detailed 
analysis - but surely it says as much about the chart as a whole as about 
Maiden?
And of course we all recall that their Number One single was in the 1990s.

>>>>>Neil Diamond,
>>>>
>>>>That looks rather low when he's following a Top 5.He could even be a
>>>>possibility for the top.
>>>
>>> If you thought *Scooter* was an unlikely #1...
>>
>>...The the guy who had a Top 5 album much more recently, has topped the
>>chart on several previous occasions and is being worshipped by Radio 2 
>>this
>>month would be a much less unlikely one?
>
> But he's virtually a joke outside his core fanbase.

As opposed to the critically-acclaimed serious artists Scooter?

Like I've said before, the key to chart success isn't how few people dislike 
your records - it's how many people do like them.

>>>>And what about Alphabeat?
>>>
>>> Not 3 weeks before its release date - namely 2nd June...
>>
>>This is another where no two sources seem to agree. But I didn't see any
>>copies on the shelves today, so I'll take the later date to be correct.
>
> I cannot understand why Fascination has sold so steadily - to me they 
> sound just like the kind of boy/girl groups that were regarded as cheesy 
> even back in the 80's...

But sold a lot of records?

    Chris

On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 21:58:23, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>
>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>> -------
>>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>>>Coldplay #8,
>>>>
>>>> I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?
>>>
>>>Well, have you heard anything about it ever coming out on CDS?
>>
>> Well, I couldn't see it on the NR sched, but I assumed that *had* to be a
>> mistake - one of the biggest bands not releasing the first single from
>> their new album in physical format...
>
>Next thing you know, they'll be doing something crazy like letting people
>download it for free.

How on earth did they get their record company to agree to that, I 
wonder?

Still no video, BTW - though surely one must appear soon, to help promo 
the album.
>
>> Given the decline in album sales generally, I would say no more than
>> 250k - though most, if not all, of the individual tracks will probably
>> chart in the singles T200.
>
>This is the sort of level I was thinking of too, bearing in mind the overall
>dip in sales, the signs of backlash (which tends to happen after these
>record-breaking albums anyway) and so on.

Quite a bit has been said about individual album track downloads 
undercutting sales of CD albums - but ISTM that since most such tracks 
sell little more than 1-2k, that is a totally inadequate explanation for 
the overall decline in album sales. Individual tracks would surely have 
to sell tens of thousands to seriously eat into CD album sales.
>
>>>>>> Kylie #10
>>
>> Though 'In My Arms' *is* #5 on airplay this week.
>
>'Wow' must have got higher though, surely?

Yes, both it & 2 Hearts got to #2. Of course, IMA still has a chance to 
climb...
>
>>>>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>>>
>>>Of course, I meant artistically, rather than commercially.
>>
>> Or 'promotionally'?
>
>Are you suggesting I did mean that or I didn't?

That's what I thought you meant.
>
>>>>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>
>>Has it even been released to radio yet?
>
>Since I've heard it, I think that has to be a yes.
>
>> It does have a video since it's already out in America - but I haven't
>> seen it on TV here yet, but it's a boring one.
>
>How do you know it's boring if you haven't seen it?

Well, its Ne-Yo... :)

Seriously though, I said I hadn't seen it on *TV* - I said nothing about 
not seeing it on Youtube.
>
>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>>> ---------------------
>>
>> So what's new, for US country singers... :)
>
>It doesn't really happen anymore, but there have been country singers who've
>notched up decent numbers of hits. And even fewer from outside the US have
>managed it - I can only think of Shania Twain and Daniel O'Donnell, offhand.

I was just about to argue with you about Shania, but I thought I'd 
better check Guinness first - and you're right, she is Canadian!

I'd just assumed that *all* country singers *must* be American.

On a side issue, I picked up her massive-selling 'Come On Over' album 
2nd-hand recently - and I can see why it sold so many (3m in the UK 
alone)! Plus she looks amazing on the album cover...
>
>>>>>>Delays #26,
>>
>> You seem to buy albums from most indie bands of this type.
>
>Yes and indeed I have got the previous two Delays albums but for various
>reasons I haven't picked this one up yet.

I find indie bands too raw for my taste - I prefer well-produced (or 
some might even say over-produced) music myself.
>
>>>>>> Next Week
>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>> -------
>>>>>> Top 10 : Duffy (WA)
>>>>
>>>> Not an exciting video though - just her doing a 'Sinead O'Connor'
>>>> throughout.
>>>
>>>I didn't think 'Mercy' was a great vid either.
>>
>> What about the Rockferry vid?
>
>Don't think I ever saw it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlcRRnbqS8Y
>
>>>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday
>
>> * Even *I* have one of their singles - Lovecats.
>
>That's the one where they sing about all the cops and robbers isn't it? ;-)

I can't remember - haven't heard it for probably 20 years!

>Even I sort of like that one, although that might be partly because I
>suspect it annoys Cure fans.

But by definition, surely they are the ones who bought it?
>
>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>> ------
>
>Like I've said before, the key to chart success isn't how few people dislike
>your records - it's how many people do like them.

Or how low overall sales levels are?
>>
>> I cannot understand why Fascination has sold so steadily - to me they
>> sound just like the kind of boy/girl groups that were regarded as cheesy
>> even back in the 80's...
>
>But sold a lot of records?

Back *then*, yes - but why now?
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:owi2XPCwNoKIFwtd@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 at 21:58:23, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>>
>>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>>>>>Coldplay #8,
>>>>>
>>>>> I've heard nothing about this *never* coming out on CD?
>>>>
>>>>Well, have you heard anything about it ever coming out on CDS?
>>>
>>> Well, I couldn't see it on the NR sched, but I assumed that *had* to be 
>>> a
>>> mistake - one of the biggest bands not releasing the first single from
>>> their new album in physical format...
>>
>>Next thing you know, they'll be doing something crazy like letting people
>>download it for free.
>
> How on earth did they get their record company to agree to that, I wonder?

Because they're Coldplay, probably. As they're one of EMI's biggest active 
bands (especially now Radiohead have gone) the label has an obvious 
incentive to keep them sweet. And of course there is some publicity value in 
this.

> Still no video, BTW - though surely one must appear soon, to help promo 
> the album.

Presumably. Although I suppose there are a couple of million people who 
don't need to see a video.

>>> Given the decline in album sales generally, I would say no more than
>>> 250k - though most, if not all, of the individual tracks will probably
>>> chart in the singles T200.
>>
>>This is the sort of level I was thinking of too, bearing in mind the 
>>overall
>>dip in sales, the signs of backlash (which tends to happen after these
>>record-breaking albums anyway) and so on.
>
> Quite a bit has been said about individual album track downloads 
> undercutting sales of CD albums - but ISTM that since most such tracks 
> sell little more than 1-2k, that is a totally inadequate explanation for 
> the overall decline in album sales. Individual tracks would surely have to 
> sell tens of thousands to seriously eat into CD album sales.

Also, the most popular download tracks are (more or less inevitably) largely 
singles and old "classics", which were seldom unobtainable even in the days 
before downloads.
Perhaps it's the idea of single-track downloads that are undercutting sales? 
That and the various other factors.


>>>>>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>>>>
>>>>Of course, I meant artistically, rather than commercially.
>>>
>>> Or 'promotionally'?
>>
>>Are you suggesting I did mean that or I didn't?
>
> That's what I thought you meant.

What I actually meant was to criticise her performance: it's technically 
quite good but she doesn't seem to engage with the subject matter of the 
song. Considering the song's supposed to be about staying out partying all 
night, she doesn't sound very excited.

>>>>>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>>
>>>Has it even been released to radio yet?
>>
>>Since I've heard it, I think that has to be a yes.
>>
>>> It does have a video since it's already out in America - but I haven't
>>> seen it on TV here yet, but it's a boring one.
>>
>>How do you know it's boring if you haven't seen it?
>
> Well, its Ne-Yo... :)

I was going to do that joke myself. Although to be honest, I've never 
actually seen any of his videos, so I can only assume they're as boring as 
the songs.

> Seriously though, I said I hadn't seen it on *TV* - I said nothing about 
> not seeing it on Youtube.

I didn't think you'd bother with him though.

>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>> ------
>>>>>>> New Entries/New Peaks
>>>>>>> ---------------------
>>>
>>> So what's new, for US country singers... :)
>>
>>It doesn't really happen anymore, but there have been country singers 
>>who've
>>notched up decent numbers of hits. And even fewer from outside the US have
>>managed it - I can only think of Shania Twain and Daniel O'Donnell, 
>>offhand.
>
> I was just about to argue with you about Shania, but I thought I'd better 
> check Guinness first - and you're right, she is Canadian!

You didn't think I'd make that up did you? She lives in Switzerland now, I 
believe.

> I'd just assumed that *all* country singers *must* be American.

Well, Daniel O'Donnell obviously isn't either. And I was debating earlier in 
the thread whether I should include Ronan Keating as well. Despite the name, 
Keith Urban is also a non-US country singer, though of course he's never 
been particularly successful here.
Of course there *are* a lot of country singers in other parts of the world 
(including here) but few of them become high-profile.

> On a side issue, I picked up her massive-selling 'Come On Over' album 
> 2nd-hand recently - and I can see why it sold so many (3m in the UK 
> alone)! Plus she looks amazing on the album cover...

"Plus"? You mean there's another reason?? ;-)
Of course, we got a different version here from the North Americans.

>>>>>>>Delays #26,
>>>
>>> You seem to buy albums from most indie bands of this type.
>>
>>Yes and indeed I have got the previous two Delays albums but for various
>>reasons I haven't picked this one up yet.
>
> I find indie bands too raw for my taste - I prefer well-produced (or some 
> might even say over-produced) music myself.

Delays themselves don't really do "raw" though, at least on record. Parts of 
their last one were produced by Trevor Horn! This time they've worked with 
Youth.

>>>>>>> Next Week
>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>>> -------

>>>>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday
>>
>>> * Even *I* have one of their singles - Lovecats.
>>
>>That's the one where they sing about all the cops and robbers isn't it? 
>>;-)
>
> I can't remember - haven't heard it for probably 20 years!

Sorry, that was a joke referencing the supposed resemblance between that and 
the new Hoosiers single.

>>Even I sort of like that one, although that might be partly because I
>>suspect it annoys Cure fans.
>
> But by definition, surely they are the ones who bought >it?

Presumably they (at any rate, the people who were Cure fans at that time) 
did buy it. But presumably not only them, since not all their singles have 
been equally successful.
The point I was making was not so much that Cure fans don't like the song 
itself as that they might resent people who *only* like that one or 'Friday 
I'm In Love', which seems like their other big crossover hit - but perhaps 
more so this one because it's so far removed from their usual sort of thing.

>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>> ------
>>
>>Like I've said before, the key to chart success isn't how few people 
>>dislike
>>your records - it's how many people do like them.
>
> Or how low overall sales levels are?

Yeah, in practice there are obviously lots of other factors involved, but I 
was trying to reduce it to an aphorism.

>>> I cannot understand why Fascination has sold so steadily - to me they
>>> sound just like the kind of boy/girl groups that were regarded as cheesy
>>> even back in the 80's...
>>
>>But sold a lot of records?
>
> Back *then*, yes - but why now?

Same reason as it would have then. Whatever that was!

    Chris

On Wed, 14 May 2008 at 21:54:26, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>>
>>>Next thing you know, they'll be doing something crazy like letting people
>>>download it for free.
>>
>> How on earth did they get their record company to agree to that, I wonder?
>
>Because they're Coldplay, probably. As they're one of EMI's biggest active
>bands (especially now Radiohead have gone) the label has an obvious
>incentive to keep them sweet. And of course there is some publicity value in
>this.

I dare say they only allowed it as long as there was a commercial 
download release too, though.
>
>> Still no video, BTW - though surely one must appear soon, to help promo
>> the album.
>
>Presumably. Although I suppose there are a couple of million people who
>don't need to see a video.

It does seem that singles sell quite well nowadays even without (or 
rather, before) their video being released - an effect that hasn't 
really been testable for the best part of 2 decades.
>>
>> Quite a bit has been said about individual album track downloads
>> undercutting sales of CD albums - but ISTM that since most such tracks
>> sell little more than 1-2k, that is a totally inadequate explanation for
>> the overall decline in album sales. Individual tracks would surely have to
>> sell tens of thousands to seriously eat into CD album sales.
>
>Also, the most popular download tracks are (more or less inevitably) largely
>singles and old "classics", which were seldom unobtainable even in the days
>before downloads.

A lot of the 'new' singles sales are indeed the ones you suggest, but a 
lot of them fall outside even the T200, so how could we tell which was 
which?

>Perhaps it's the idea of single-track downloads that are undercutting sales?

But that's precisely the effect  I just suggested was being overstated.

When a new album comes out by a popular artist, generally the individual 
tracks from it don't chart for more than a week (if at all), so their 
negative effect on album sales shouldn't be more than a couple of 
thousand...
>
>That and the various other factors.
>
You mean piracy?
>
>>>>>>>> Top 20 : Kelly Rowland #14,
>
>What I actually meant was to criticise her performance: it's technically
>quite good but she doesn't seem to engage with the subject matter of the
>song. Considering the song's supposed to be about staying out partying all
>night, she doesn't sound very excited.

Plus you'd expect a song about partying to itself be more lively.
>
>>>>>>>> Top 30 : Ne-Yo #22,
>>>
>>>How do you know it's boring if you haven't seen it?
>>
>> Well, its Ne-Yo... :)
>
>I was going to do that joke myself. Although to be honest, I've never
>actually seen any of his videos, so I can only assume they're as boring as
>the songs.

I tend to avoid them too, of course.
>
>> Seriously though, I said I hadn't seen it on *TV* - I said nothing about
>> not seeing it on Youtube.
>
>I didn't think you'd bother with him though.

'Know your enemy'. :)

Seriously though, when Buzzjack run their prediction threads, they 
normally have a Youtube link, so I check out those songs that others 
predict will do well.
>
>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>> ------
>> I was just about to argue with you about Shania, but I thought I'd better
>> check Guinness first - and you're right, she is Canadian!
>
>You didn't think I'd make that up did you?

Of course not - but I didn't think there were any prominent non-American 
Country singers.
>
>> I'd just assumed that *all* country singers *must* be American.
>
>Well, Daniel O'Donnell obviously isn't either.

But OTOH, I wouldn't really describe him as Country.

>And I was debating earlier in
>the thread whether I should include Ronan Keating as well. Despite the name,
>Keith Urban is also a non-US country singer, though of course he's never
>been particularly successful here.

I must have a different idea of what is 'Country' than you, as I 
wouldn't use it for either of the above.

>Of course there *are* a lot of country singers in other parts of the world
>(including here) but few of them become high-profile.
>
>> On a side issue, I picked up her massive-selling 'Come On Over' album
>> 2nd-hand recently - and I can see why it sold so many (3m in the UK
>> alone)! Plus she looks amazing on the album cover...
>
>"Plus"? You mean there's another reason?? ;-)

Actually the pages of the album blurb were stuck together when I got the 
CD - I don't want to think by *what*... :)

>Of course, we got a different version here from the North Americans.

Different, how?
>
>>>>>>>> Next Week
>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday
>>>
>>>> * Even *I* have one of their singles - Lovecats.
>>>
>>>That's the one where they sing about all the cops and robbers isn't it?
>>>;-)
>>
>> I can't remember - haven't heard it for probably 20 years!
>
>Sorry, that was a joke referencing the supposed resemblance between that and
>the new Hoosiers single.

You mean the one people *wish* they hadn't heard for 20 years? :)
>
>The point I was making was not so much that Cure fans don't like the song
>itself as that they might resent people who *only* like that one or 'Friday
>I'm In Love', which seems like their other big crossover hit
> - but perhaps
>more so this one because it's so far removed from their usual sort of thing.

As with REM, and people like me who only like 'Shiny Happy People'?
>
>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>> ------
>>>
>>>Like I've said before, the key to chart success isn't how few people
>>>dislike
>>>your records - it's how many people do like them.
>>
>> Or how low overall sales levels are?
>
>Yeah, in practice there are obviously lots of other factors involved, but I
>was trying to reduce it to
>an aphorism.

I just sprayed some roses against those... :)
>
>
BTW, did you get my email?
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:I1iuWjBxW9KIFwZq@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Wed, 14 May 2008 at 21:54:26, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>>>
>>>>Next thing you know, they'll be doing something crazy like letting 
>>>>people
>>>>download it for free.
>>>
>>> How on earth did they get their record company to agree to that, I 
>>> wonder?
>>
>>Because they're Coldplay, probably. As they're one of EMI's biggest active
>>bands (especially now Radiohead have gone) the label has an obvious
>>incentive to keep them sweet. And of course there is some publicity value 
>>in
>>this.
>
> I dare say they only allowed it as long as there was a commercial download 
> release too, though.

That may very well be the case - although of course it's also possible that 
Coldplay themselves wanted the paid release. Come to think of it, that might 
be another advantage for the label - it's a way to test how well they can 
sell downloads after a freebie release.

>>> Still no video, BTW - though surely one must appear soon, to help promo
>>> the album.
>>
>>Presumably. Although I suppose there are a couple of million people who
>>don't need to see a video.
>
> It does seem that singles sell quite well nowadays even without (or 
> rather, before) their video being released - an effect that hasn't really 
> been testable for the best part of 2 decades.

Yup - I was about to mention 'Never Gonna Give You Up' but even that was 
more than 20 years ago.
Of course, in the intervening years it wasn't unheard of for a single to 
chart before/without a video, but neither was it really common enough to 
draw many conclusions.

>>> Quite a bit has been said about individual album track downloads
>>> undercutting sales of CD albums - but ISTM that since most such tracks
>>> sell little more than 1-2k, that is a totally inadequate explanation for
>>> the overall decline in album sales. Individual tracks would surely have 
>>> to
>>> sell tens of thousands to seriously eat into CD album sales.
>>
>>Also, the most popular download tracks are (more or less inevitably) 
>>largely
>>singles and old "classics", which were seldom unobtainable even in the 
>>days
>>before downloads.
>
> A lot of the 'new' singles sales are indeed the ones you suggest, but a 
> lot of them fall outside even the T200, so how could we tell which was 
> which?

We can't but that's sort of the point I was making. Also, of course, some of 
those sales will be to people who wouldn't have bought the albums anyway.

>>Perhaps it's the idea of single-track downloads that are undercutting 
>>sales?
>
> But that's precisely the effect  I just suggested was being overstated.

The emphasis in my sentence was on the word "idea" - what I mean is, even if 
people aren't in practice downloading the tracks, the knowledge that they 
could might be stopping some impulse purchases.

> When a new album comes out by a popular artist, generally the individual 
> tracks from it don't chart for more than a week (if at all), so their 
> negative effect on album sales shouldn't be more than a couple of 
> thousand...
>>
>>That and the various other factors.
>>
> You mean piracy?

Yup, piracy, and other things that aren't anything to do with downloading 
(eg economic outlook, competition from other forms of entertainment, 
reduction in retail space, etc etc)

>>
>>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>>> ------
>>> I was just about to argue with you about Shania, but I thought I'd 
>>> better
>>> check Guinness first - and you're right, she is Canadian!
>>
>>You didn't think I'd make that up did you?
>
> Of course not - but I didn't think there were any prominent non-American 
> Country singers.
>>
>>> I'd just assumed that *all* country singers *must* be American.
>>
>>Well, Daniel O'Donnell obviously isn't either.
>
> But OTOH, I wouldn't really describe him as Country.

I would (and indeed I have!) but I can see that's different from some other 
country stars.

>>And I was debating earlier in
>>the thread whether I should include Ronan Keating as well. Despite the 
>>name,
>>Keith Urban is also a non-US country singer, though of course he's never
>>been particularly successful here.
>
> I must have a different idea of what is 'Country' than you, as I wouldn't 
> use it for either of the above.

As you can see I ultimately decided not to use it of Keating - of course 
it's not disputed that he's had success with covers of country songs, but 
that's not quite the same thing; otherwise Ray Charles would have been a 
country singer.
Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.

>>Of course there *are* a lot of country singers in other parts of the world
>>(including here) but few of them become high-profile.
>>
>>> On a side issue, I picked up her massive-selling 'Come On Over' album
>>> 2nd-hand recently - and I can see why it sold so many (3m in the UK
>>> alone)! Plus she looks amazing on the album cover...
>>
>>"Plus"? You mean there's another reason?? ;-)
>
> Actually the pages of the album blurb were stuck together when I got the 
> CD - I don't want to think by *what*... :)

Neither did I. eww!

>>Of course, we got a different version here from the North Americans.
>
> Different, how?

Remixed to make it less country-sounding, apparently.

>>>>>>>>> Next Week
>>>>>>>>> ---------
>>>>>>>>> Singles
>>>>>>>>> -------
>>>>>>>>Also, the Cure are releasing a single on Tuesday

>>
>>The point I was making was not so much that Cure fans don't like the song
>>itself as that they might resent people who *only* like that one or 
>>'Friday
>>I'm In Love', which seems like their other big crossover hit
>> - but perhaps
>>more so this one because it's so far removed from their usual sort of 
>>thing.
>
> As with REM, and people like me who only like 'Shiny Happy People'?

Yes, pretty much. I think with most long-running acts the loyal fans will 
tend to have a certain disdain or similar for people who only seem 
interested in one or two songs - but it's heightened in cases like this 
where the song in question is (seemingly) "lighter" than the rest of their 
material.


> BTW, did you get my email?

I have now, thanks. I don't check that addy every day.

    Chris

On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 22:01:58, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>
>> I dare say they only allowed it as long as there was a commercial download
>> release too, though.
>
>That may very well be the case - although of course it's also possible that
>Coldplay themselves wanted the paid release. Come to think of it, that might
>be another advantage for the label - it's a way to test how well they can
>sell downloads after a freebie release.

Not as well as before one, I'd have thought!

I can see why bands might want to give away a random track now & again, 
but to do so with the lead-off track from an album??
>>
>> It does seem that singles sell quite well nowadays even without (or
>> rather, before) their video being released - an effect that hasn't really
>> been testable for the best part of 2 decades.
>
>Yup - I was about to mention 'Never Gonna Give You Up' but even that was
>more than 20 years ago.

I must be missing the connection?

>Of course, in the intervening years it wasn't unheard of for a single to
>chart before/without a video, but neither was it really common enough to
>draw many conclusions.

There have been #1 in recent years without videos, albeit in rare 
circumstances - the Elvis re-releases.
>>
>> A lot of the 'new' singles sales are indeed the ones you suggest, but a
>> lot of them fall outside even the T200, so how could we tell which was
>> which?
>
>We can't but that's sort of the point I was making. Also, of course, some of
>those sales will be to people who wouldn't have bought the albums anyway.

Most, I'd have thought.

In the past, I've often been in a position where I was on the fence 
about buying a single, and eventually decided not to - but regretted 
that decision later when the single was long gone.

Downloads make such missed opportunities a thing of the past, and that 
in itself must be a strong driving factor in the virtual market.
>
>The emphasis in my sentence was on the word "idea" - what I mean is, even if
>people aren't in practice downloading the tracks, the knowledge that they
>could might be stopping some impulse purchases.

Good point - you're far more likely to make an impulse buy when you know 
it's your only chance to get a song. With downloads there is no urgency, 
and this time for reflection has probably led to a decline in novelty 
single sales - though just too late to save us from the likes of Crazy 
Frog...
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>>>> ------
>As you can see I ultimately decided not to use it of Keating - of course
>it's not disputed that he's had success with covers of country songs, but
>that's not quite the same thing; otherwise Ray Charles would have been a
>country singer.

>Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.

You like waving red flags at bulls, do you? :)

Re : Shania Twain.
>
>>>Of course, we got a different version here from the North Americans.
>>
>> Different, how?
>
>Remixed to make it less country-sounding, apparently.

In which case - good job.
>
>> BTW, did you get my email?
>
>I have now, thanks. I don't check that addy every day.

I should check it again tonight, though...
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:9K+TZoCERSLIFwEV@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 22:01:58, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>>
>>As you can see I ultimately decided not to use it of Keating - of course
>>it's not disputed that he's had success with covers of country songs, but
>>that's not quite the same thing; otherwise Ray Charles would have been a
>>country singer.
>
>>Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.
>
> You like waving red flags at bulls, do you? :)

Why do you think Keith Urban is not a country singer?

On Fri, 16 May 2008 at 15:07:37, Phoebe  wrote in 
uk.music.charts :
>>
>>>Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.
>>
>> You like waving red flags at bulls, do you? :)
>
>Why do you think Keith Urban is not a country singer?
>
He doesn't sound like what *I'd* call Country.
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:9K+TZoCERSLIFwEV@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Thu, 15 May 2008 at 22:01:58, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>>>
>>> I dare say they only allowed it as long as there was a commercial 
>>> download
>>> release too, though.
>>
>>That may very well be the case - although of course it's also possible 
>>that
>>Coldplay themselves wanted the paid release. Come to think of it, that 
>>might
>>be another advantage for the label - it's a way to test how well they can
>>sell downloads after a freebie release.
>
> Not as well as before one, I'd have thought!

Probably not - but they can test how much less.

> I can see why bands might want to give away a random track now & again, 
> but to do so with the lead-off track from an album??

Of course, bands who aren't as this big do it a lot nowadays. And it's 
becoming common-ish practice to give out a freebie well ahead of the album 
and then charge people for a single nearer the time.

>>> It does seem that singles sell quite well nowadays even without (or
>>> rather, before) their video being released - an effect that hasn't 
>>> really
>>> been testable for the best part of 2 decades.
>>
>>Yup - I was about to mention 'Never Gonna Give You Up' but even that was
>>more than 20 years ago.
>
> I must be missing the connection?

The video for that was only shot a few days before it reached Number One (ie 
several weeks into the chart run) possibly because they wanted people to 
know the song before they saw what Rick Astley looked like.

>>Of course, in the intervening years it wasn't unheard of for a single to
>>chart before/without a video, but neither was it really common enough to
>>draw many conclusions.
>
> There have been #1 in recent years without videos, albeit in rare 
> circumstances - the Elvis re-releases.

And the George Harrison one too, IIRC (there was a video on the website for 
the 2000 version, but I don't think that was ever televised).
Offhand, the last "natural" example I can think of was 'Masses Against The 
Classes'.

>>> A lot of the 'new' singles sales are indeed the ones you suggest, but a
>>> lot of them fall outside even the T200, so how could we tell which was
>>> which?
>>
>>We can't but that's sort of the point I was making. Also, of course, some 
>>of
>>those sales will be to people who wouldn't have bought the albums anyway.
>
> Most, I'd have thought.
>
> In the past, I've often been in a position where I was on the fence about 
> buying a single, and eventually decided not to - but regretted that 
> decision later when the single was long gone.

I've been there too. Possibly not with the same records though.

> Downloads make such missed opportunities a thing of the past, and that in 
> itself must be a strong driving factor in the virtual market.

Up to a point, yes, although some downloads do go offline - as is the case 
with the Slade and Madness catalogues at the moment, for example.

>>The emphasis in my sentence was on the word "idea" - what I mean is, even 
>>if
>>people aren't in practice downloading the tracks, the knowledge that they
>>could might be stopping some impulse purchases.
>
> Good point - you're far more likely to make an impulse buy when you know 
> it's your only chance to get a song. With downloads there is no urgency, 
> and this time for reflection has probably led to a decline in novelty 
> single sales - though just too late to save us from the likes of Crazy 
> Frog...

I don't know if that's really related to the apparent decline in novelty 
singles, even if we could agree on what they were. If nothing else, 
downloads are surely easier to buy whilst drunk. ;-)
I was thinking more about the effect on album sales. To use a real-world 
example, I saw a Stranglers CD in Woolworths for £3 a couple of weeks ago. 
Once upon a time, I probably would have bought it, but this time I 
considered the fact that I've already got two of the songs I like on MP3 and 
decided the rest of the album wasn't worth the cash and effort.

>>>>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>>>>> ------
>>As you can see I ultimately decided not to use it of Keating - of course
>>it's not disputed that he's had success with covers of country songs, but
>>that's not quite the same thing; otherwise Ray Charles would have been a
>>country singer.
>
>>Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.
>
> You like waving red flags at bulls, do you? :)

If they're running towards Keith Urban, yes.

>>> BTW, did you get my email?
>>
>>I have now, thanks. I don't check that addy every day.
>
> I should check it again tonight, though...

I have. Thanks.

    Chris

On Fri, 16 May 2008 at 20:30:47, Chris Brown  
wrote in uk.music.charts :

>>> Come to think of it, that
>>>might
>>>be another advantage for the label - it's a way to test how well they can
>>>sell downloads after a freebie release.
>>
>> Not as well as before one, I'd have thought!
>
>Probably not - but they can test how much less.

Not really, because they can't know how much it would have sold 
*without* the freebie offer.
>
>> I can see why bands might want to give away a random track now & again,
>> but to do so with the lead-off track from an album??
>
>Of course, bands who aren't as this big do it a lot nowadays. And it's
>becoming common-ish practice to give out a freebie well ahead of the album
>and then charge people for a single nearer the time.

I guess it's a good way of getting rid of the crap that wasn't good 
enough to make it onto an album... :)
>>>
>>>Yup - I was about to mention 'Never Gonna Give You Up' but even that was
>>>more than 20 years ago.
>>
>> I must be missing the connection?
>
>The video for that was only shot a few days before it reached Number One (ie
>several weeks into the chart run) possibly because they wanted people to
>know the song before they saw what Rick Astley looked like.

Grin.

Not something you could hide nowadays though, as there's almost 
invariably *something* about a new artist to be found on the web - often 
a lot more than you wanted to know... :)
>
>And the George Harrison one too, IIRC (there was a video on the website for
>the 2000 version, but I don't think that was ever televised).
>Offhand, the last "natural" example I can think of was 'Masses Against The
>Classes'.

I'm unfamiliar with that one, but from the name alone I'm guessing it's 
not a love ballad... :)

Digging out Guinness... MSP from 2000.
>>
>> In the past, I've often been in a position where I was on the fence about
>> buying a single, and eventually decided not to - but regretted that
>> decision later when the single was long gone.
>
>I've been there too. Possibly not with the same records though.

Possibly. :)
>
>> Downloads make such missed opportunities a thing of the past, and that in
>> itself must be a strong driving factor in the virtual market.
>
>Up to a point, yes, although some downloads do go offline - as is the case
>with the Slade and Madness catalogues at the moment, for example.

Hard to see the sense in that - there would be a significant demand for 
them, and those sales might be lost to piracy...

Maybe there are copyright issues of something, but it has to be in both 
the record company's & the artists interests to get any such 
disagreements sorted! ASAP.
>>
>> Good point - you're far more likely to make an impulse buy when you know
>> it's your only chance to get a song. With downloads there is no urgency,
>> and this time for reflection has probably led to a decline in novelty
>> single sales - though just too late to save us from the likes of Crazy
>> Frog...
>
>I don't know if that's really related to the apparent decline in novelty
>singles, even if we could agree on what they were. If nothing else,
>downloads are surely easier to buy whilst drunk. ;-)

But OTOH you might accidentally buy something you *really* didn't want! 
:)

>I was thinking more about the effect on album sales. To use a real-world
>example, I saw a Stranglers CD in Woolworths for £3 a couple of weeks ago.
>Once upon a time, I probably would have bought it, but this time I
>considered the fact that I've already got two of the songs I like on MP3 and
>decided the rest of the album wasn't worth the cash and effort.

There's only one Stranglers song I like (Golden Brown) and I've had that 
on a compy CD for many years.
>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Albums
>>>>>>>>>>>> ------
>>
>>>Urban, OTOH, I'd say was pretty typical of modern-day commercial country.
>>
>> You like waving red flags at bulls, do you? :)
>
>If they're running towards Keith Urban, yes.

Grin.
-- 
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)

"Paul Hyett"  wrote in message 
news:nvbFAdBR2nLIFw0E@blueyonder.co.uk...
> On Fri, 16 May 2008 at 20:30:47, Chris Brown  
> wrote in uk.music.charts :
>
>>>> Come to think of it, that
>>>>might
>>>>be another advantage for the label - it's a way to test how well they 
>>>>can
>>>>sell downloads after a freebie release.
>>>
>>> Not as well as before one, I'd have thought!
>>
>>Probably not - but they can test how much less.
>
> Not really, because they can't know how much it would have sold *without* 
> the freebie offer.

In this specific case, no - but the more of these releases there are the 
easier it is to make comparisons and gauge how much difference this sort of 
release makes.

>>> I can see why bands might want to give away a random track now & again,
>>> but to do so with the lead-off track from an album??
>>
>>Of course, bands who aren't as this big do it a lot nowadays. And it's
>>becoming common-ish practice to give out a freebie well ahead of the album
>>and then charge people for a single nearer the time.
>
> I guess it's a good way of getting rid of the crap that wasn't good enough 
> to make it onto an album... :)

No, I mean give away a track from the album for free - but, presumably, not 
the one with the biggest chart potential.

>>>>Yup - I was about to mention 'Never Gonna Give You Up' but even that was
>>>>more than 20 years ago.
>>>
>>> I must be missing the connection?
>>
>>The video for that was only shot a few days before it reached Number One 
>>(ie
>>several weeks into the chart run) possibly because they wanted people to
>>know the song before they saw what Rick Astley looked like.
>
> Grin.
>
> Not something you could hide nowadays though, as there's almost invariably 
> *something* about a new artist to be found on the web - often a lot more 
> than you wanted to know... :)

Indeed so, although in a case where the label intentionally wanted to 
maintain secrecy or mistique they could probably get away with it for a 
while. And of course if people are bothering to look that implies a certain 
level of interest.

>>And the George Harrison one too, IIRC (there was a video on the website 
>>for
>>the 2000 version, but I don't think that was ever televised).
>>Offhand, the last "natural" example I can think of was 'Masses Against The
>>Classes'.
>
> I'm unfamiliar with that one, but from the name alone I'm guessing it's 
> not a love ballad... :)

Well spotted.

> Digging out Guinness... MSP from 2000.

And the first new Number One of the century (assuming that you start it in 
2000). Anyway, it was a new track, intentionally released without a video.

>>> Downloads make such missed opportunities a thing of the past, and that 
>>> in
>>> itself must be a strong driving factor in the virtual market.
>>
>>Up to a point, yes, although some downloads do go offline - as is the case
>>with the Slade and Madness catalogues at the moment, for example.
>
> Hard to see the sense in that - there would be a significant demand for 
> them, and those sales might be lost to piracy...

As if something like that would ever happen! ;-)

> Maybe there are copyright issues of something, but it has to be in both 
> the record company's & the artists interests to get any such disagreements 
> sorted! ASAP.

These are copyright deals, yes. In the Madness case, they'd signed the bulk 
of their catalogue over to Virgin for a set period which elapsed last year - 
and for some reason they haven't yet done anything with the material. 
Perhaps they're in negotiations behind the scenes, or maybe they don't want 
to overshadow their new recordings. Slade licensed all their albums to a 
reissue label, but for whatever reason those don't seem to have much digital 
distribution. Either way, of course, their former labels can't sell them 
digitally any more, so they've gradually dropped off the sites.

>>> Good point - you're far more likely to make an impulse buy when you know
>>> it's your only chance to get a song. With downloads there is no urgency,
>>> and this time for reflection has probably led to a decline in novelty
>>> single sales - though just too late to save us from the likes of Crazy
>>> Frog...
>>
>>I don't know if that's really related to the apparent decline in novelty
>>singles, even if we could agree on what they were. If nothing else,
>>downloads are surely easier to buy whilst drunk. ;-)
>
> But OTOH you might accidentally buy something you *really* didn't want! :)

Well that's what I meant - you'd expect it to boost novelty sales.

>>I was thinking more about the effect on album sales. To use a real-world
>>example, I saw a Stranglers CD in Woolworths for £3 a couple of weeks ago.
>>Once upon a time, I probably would have bought it, but this time I
>>considered the fact that I've already got two of the songs I like on MP3 
>>and
>>decided the rest of the album wasn't worth the cash and effort.
>
> There's only one Stranglers song I like (Golden Brown)