After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.

I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.

It's good to be back - I've missed you.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

Siderius Nuncius wrote:
> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
> recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
> battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
> permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
> to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
> 
> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
> 
Sorry, I've no idea. At all.
> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
Good to see you back, missed the bons mots and the Green Tablets 
(helluva week, best part of which is the lump is a benign cyst. 
Allegedly. Peri-menopause - Hot flushes. Migraines. Obesity. Who'd have 
'em. Well, me, apparently. Any Umratic words on HRT? Am trying 
homeopathic methods but really didn't realize menopause would be this 
bad). Oh, Sorry, Sid, I didn't see Matron there..

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 21:33:51 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
 wrote:

>After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
>mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
>for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
>evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
>recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
>battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
>permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
>to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
>
>I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
>to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>
I was told by the salesman that it was a good idea to run the battery
down completely once a month. The laptop I have now is 2.25 years old,
and the battery is holding up quite well. I do use it several times a
week until the battery warning comes up, but rarely actually let it go
flat. I don't know whether that makes a difference.

>It's good to be back - I've missed you.

Good to have you back MOPMOB!

-- 
Jo

Siderius Nuncius wrote:

> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
> 
> It's good to be back - I've missed you.

Good to see you, MOPMOB!

Memory effect on modern batteries is not too much of problem, really. 
Just keep a weather eye on how long a full charge lasts, and if it 
starts to decline noticably do a full charge and run it down to nothing 
before recharging it again which should allow the battery to recalibrate 
itself.


-- 
neil h
google brights

Welcome back, Sid. It's been a while since I researched this topic and
things might have changed, but when I did some time ago, one message
I got rather strongly was that a switched on laptop just isn't a good
place to store a battery - never mind whether being kept fully charged
all the time is a problem for the battery, the heat from the machine is in
any case. So I run my laptop with the battery taken out, which of course
makes it just as vulnerable to power loss than a standard desktop PC.

It is said that modern (Lithium ion) batteries do not suffer from
the memory effect at all, which would make completely discharging them
unnecessary, but I'm not sure whether the frequent advice about at least
"exercising" them every two to four weeks is still valid. In any case,
even if they're not used, batteries lose power - they may need to be
recharged when used after some time outside the laptop.

I had an article about the issue which I can't seem to find now, so this
has been from rather old memory (mine, not the batteries') plus some
very quick web research.

Sebastian

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:19:58 +0100, Neil Hopkins
 wrote:

>Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>
>> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>> 
>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>
>Good to see you, MOPMOB!
>
>Memory effect on modern batteries is not too much of problem, really. 
>Just keep a weather eye on how long a full charge lasts, and if it 
>starts to decline noticably do a full charge and run it down to nothing 
>before recharging it again which should allow the battery to recalibrate 
>itself.

Ah, so it does make a difference if you let it run right down, not
just to the point where you get the warning?

-- 
Jo

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008, Gumrat wrote
>Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
>> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
>> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
>> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured 
>>problem  recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve 
>>was a knackered  battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant 
>>habit of leaving it  permanently plugged into the mains has done this. 
>>What they haven't managed  to explain clearly is how much I need to 
>>unplug it to preserve the battery.
>>  I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do 
>>I need
>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>>
>Sorry, I've no idea. At all.
>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>Good to see you back, missed the bons mots and the Green Tablets 
>(helluva week, best part of which is the lump is a benign cyst. 
>Allegedly. Peri-menopause - Hot flushes. Migraines. Obesity. Who'd have 
>'em. Well, me, apparently. Any Umratic words on HRT? Am trying 
>homeopathic methods but really didn't realize menopause would be this 
>bad). Oh, Sorry, Sid, I didn't see Matron there..
>

Missed you too, MOPMOB.  I can only supply personal experience: I've had 
laptops for ages and keep them plugged in pretty nearly all the time 
when at home.  Had a Toshiba a few years ago where the battery 
eventually did degenerate, though I could always get at least 
half-an-hour out of it, and now have a Dell Inspiron 6400, two years 
old, again mostly run plugged in, but occasionally it gets taken out and 
the battery seems perfectly fine, gives around three hours at least, not 
sure how much it is supposed to do, actually, but I wouldn't often need 
more than three hours. Even in a train these days you can plug in 
somewhere.

Glad to hear the lump is benign, Gumrat, what a horrid wait you must 
have had.  Peri-menopause, been there, done that, still on the little 
KeepYouYoung pills, doctors can't seem to make up their minds as to 
whether they are a Good or Bad thing overall, but if I stop I still get 
terrible flushes and deep glooms, and not all the Black Cohosh in the 
little shop of horrors can alleviate them.  So I keep on.  Apparently 
Teresa Gorman has been on them for years and years.  This may not be an 
ideal advertisement, of course.

-- 
Kate B

PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you
want to reply personally

Kate Brown wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008, Gumrat wrote
>> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>>> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
>>> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax 
>>> properly
>>> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
>>> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured 
>>> problem  recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve 
>>> was a knackered  battery.  The menders have explained that my 
>>> ignorant habit of leaving it  permanently plugged into the mains has 
>>> done this. What they haven't managed  to explain clearly is how much 
>>> I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
>>>  I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do 
>>> I need
>>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always 
>>> knowledgeable
>>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>>>
>> Sorry, I've no idea. At all.
>>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>> Good to see you back, missed the bons mots and the Green Tablets 
>> (helluva week, best part of which is the lump is a benign cyst. 
>> Allegedly. Peri-menopause - Hot flushes. Migraines. Obesity. Who'd 
>> have 'em. Well, me, apparently. Any Umratic words on HRT? Am trying 
>> homeopathic methods but really didn't realize menopause would be this 
>> bad). Oh, Sorry, Sid, I didn't see Matron there..
>>
> 
> Missed you too, MOPMOB.  I can only supply personal experience: I've had 
> laptops for ages and keep them plugged in pretty nearly all the time 
> when at home.  Had a Toshiba a few years ago where the battery 
> eventually did degenerate, though I could always get at least 
> half-an-hour out of it, and now have a Dell Inspiron 6400, two years 
> old, again mostly run plugged in, but occasionally it gets taken out and 
> the battery seems perfectly fine, gives around three hours at least, not 
> sure how much it is supposed to do, actually, but I wouldn't often need 
> more than three hours. Even in a train these days you can plug in 
> somewhere.
> 
> Glad to hear the lump is benign, Gumrat, what a horrid wait you must 
> have had.  Peri-menopause, been there, done that, still on the little 
> KeepYouYoung pills, doctors can't seem to make up their minds as to 
> whether they are a Good or Bad thing overall, but if I stop I still get 
> terrible flushes and deep glooms, and not all the Black Cohosh in the 
> little shop of horrors can alleviate them.  So I keep on.  Apparently 
> Teresa Gorman has been on them for years and years.  This may not be an 
> ideal advertisement, of course.
> 

Well, languid waves all round here.  To expand:
I'm also very glad to see you back, Sid.  We have come to the conclusion 
here that nobody knows the answer about laptop batteries!  Mike had a 
Toshiba for a few years which he kept mainly plugged in, including 
overnight, and although it eventually died, it was only after it more or 
less had done that there was any battery problem.  I have a Dell, which 
operated for about 1.75 hours on battery when I first had it (about 4 
years ago, I think, I lose track) and as far as I know it still does, 
even though I mostly use it on mains and when in use keep it plugged in 
overnight.  I do this because if left on standby when not plugged in, 
the battery seems to go flat.

But we are always alarmed by the low/flat problem.  Surely, if you let 
the thing actually go flat, you will lose some of your stuff?  It always 
says you will, anyway.

As to Gumrat's problems, you have my sympathies.  I was on KeepYouYoung 
pills for 10 years and came off because I thought it was long enough. 
It seemed to me that the coming off was worse than the menopause is for 
most people.  I had many different sorts of unwellness for about a year, 
including as Kate says, deep glooms.  The hot flushes continue.  I know 
people who have them still after more than 10 years.  I know other 
people who take one homeopathic tablet at the first signs and never seem 
to suffer again.  I think those of us who are of that sort, just are. 
Not much consolation, but actually I think you just get used to them in 
the end.  But ISTM all the other things gradually go. Apart from, in my 
case, the obesity, but as I already had that, I cannot blame it on 
anything or anyone other than my own liking for food ;)

-- 
Jane
The potter in the purple socks

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook/contents.htm for recipes 
supplied by umrats

"Sebastian Lisken"  wrote in 
message news:6c05pmF3e9bo8U1@mid.dfncis.de...
>
> It is said that modern (Lithium ion) batteries do not suffer from
> the memory effect at all, which would make completely discharging them
> unnecessary, but I'm not sure whether the frequent advice about at least
> "exercising" them every two to four weeks is still valid. In any case,
> even if they're not used, batteries lose power - they may need to be
> recharged when used after some time outside the laptop.

That was to have been my reply, that Li-Ion batteries do not suffer this 
problem. They do die, however, or become very poor at holding charge. I have 
a couple of fairly old laptops which will only give 5 minutes on battery, 
thus making it basically dead. Also, my shiny new Lenovo laptop, once you've 
installed the Lenovo extras, has a Batter Maintenance option in Vista's 
Power options. It says:
"If you primarily use your computer with the AC adapter attached and only 
infrequently use battery power, battery deterioration may occur later if the 
battery is constantly charged at 100%. Lowering the charge thresholds for 
your battery and periodically resetting the battery gauge will helpincrease 
its lifespan."
It then has a bunch of options to optimise the battery either automatically 
or manually. It seems it will run the battery down a bit (only a few %), 
even when on mains, then recharge it. "Resetting the gauge" involves a 
complete discharge/recharge cycle so the electronics can work out what fully 
charged actually is (done occasionally as the battery deteriorates over 
time). The on-line help for these Lenovo utilites has a load more 
information, much of which is generically true for all Li-Ion laptop 
batteries. Some extracts:

"If you primarily use your computer with the ac adapter attached and only 
infrequently use battery power, you can increase the lifespan of the battery 
by changing the charge thresholds. This allows you to reduce the number of 
charge cycles by letting the battery discharge to a lower percentage before 
beginning to recharge. It also allows you to set the maximum charge value to 
below 100%. This is useful because batteries which are used infrequently 
have a longer lifespan when they are stored at less than full charge."

"When you store your battery outside of your computer, store it with a 
charge of less than 50% to reduce the battery deterioration."

"If your battery has a NiMH chemistry [as some older laptops may], 
conditioning your battery can increase the full charge capacity of your 
battery. It is recommended that you let the battery run to less then 3% at 
least once a month.  If you have a Li-Ion battery, conditioning does not 
apply."

In message , Jane Vernon 
 writes
[]
>But we are always alarmed by the low/flat problem.  Surely, if you let 
>the thing actually go flat, you will lose some of your stuff?  It 
>always says you will, anyway.
[]
Depends; I think some of them are set to go into "hibernate" mode if you 
ignore the warnings and it gets to yet another threshold - being a 
dump-all-memory-to-disc-and-shut-down; my laptop has a button which I 
think is supposed to invoke hibernate mode at any time anyway. IME, 
_recovery_ from hibernate mode - which should make it come back exactly 
as it was, including whatever you were doing - is somewhat unreliable, 
but that's probably because I've not played with it much. Obviously, 
part of going into hibernate must involve the setting of some flag that 
tells it, when next powering up, to do whatever is necessary to restore 
from a hibernated state rather than boot in the normal way, and I think 
that's where I have problems (and booting in the normal way will make it 
boot up grumpy, just like turning a desktop PC off without shutting down 
does).

FWIW this (elderly, Compaq Armada 1750) laptop works almost exclusively 
on mains, and the odd times I use it on battery (mainly when the lead 
has worked slightly loose) I get I think about half an hour, but could 
be longer as I'm not usually aware when it starts. It is (AFAIK) unique 
among laptops in that the mains lead goes into the back of the laptop; 
sure, it's thus a heavy little thing, but I don't have this extra brick 
to carry around (and when they quote the weights of them, I'm sure they 
don't include the bricks!).
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

God must love the common man; He made so many of them.

Siderius Nuncius wrote:
> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
> recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
> battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
> permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
> to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
> 
> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.

I tend to run mine on battery until I get the warning message and then 
plug it in, or at least switch the socket on.
> 
> It's good to be back - I've missed you.

It's great to have you back, you've been missed too MOPMOB.

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:45:50 +0200, Gumrat  wrote:

>Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
>> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
>> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
>> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
>> recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
>> battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
>> permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
>> to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
>> 
>> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>> 
>Sorry, I've no idea. At all.
>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>Good to see you back, missed the bons mots and the Green Tablets 
>(helluva week, best part of which is the lump is a benign cyst. 
>Allegedly. Peri-menopause - Hot flushes. Migraines. Obesity. Who'd have 
>'em. Well, me, apparently. Any Umratic words on HRT? Am trying 
>homeopathic methods but really didn't realize menopause would be this 
>bad). Oh, Sorry, Sid, I didn't see Matron there..

I took black cohosh, linseed oil, and increased my soya intake. This
seemed to help. I found that sleeping on a large beach towel at night
was a Good Thing. I didn't want to take daily drugs for years, and the
women I know who have taken HRT have found that they just delayed
their menopause. I'd rather get it over with sooner rather than later.
The migraines can be helped with a drug called Syndol (available here
over the counter, but shouldn't be taken into Greece as it contains
codeine). I can only speak for my own experience, but two taken the
moment I feel the first inkling of a migraine will stop it in its
tracks (I have had monthly migraines for over 30 years, and it was a
revelation finding this pill). It may not work for you of course!

Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.

-- 
al
LSM
Licensed to flame

"Sebastian Lisken"  wrote in 
message news:6c05pmF3e9bo8U1@mid.dfncis.de...
> Welcome back, Sid. It's been a while since I researched this topic and
> things might have changed, but when I did some time ago, one message
> I got rather strongly was that a switched on laptop just isn't a good
> place to store a battery - never mind whether being kept fully charged
> all the time is a problem for the battery, the heat from the machine is in
> any case. So I run my laptop with the battery taken out, which of course
> makes it just as vulnerable to power loss than a standard desktop PC.
>
> It is said that modern (Lithium ion) batteries do not suffer from
> the memory effect at all, which would make completely discharging them
> unnecessary, but I'm not sure whether the frequent advice about at least
> "exercising" them every two to four weeks is still valid. In any case,
> even if they're not used, batteries lose power - they may need to be
> recharged when used after some time outside the laptop.
>
> I had an article about the issue which I can't seem to find now, so this
> has been from rather old memory (mine, not the batteries') plus some
> very quick web research.
>
> Sebastian

There is a site on the interweb (so it must be true!) thought I had book 
marked it.
It suggests the best way to treat a battery for a laptop that is nearly 
allways attached to the mains, is to charge it to 80% then take it out and 
store it untill needed,
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm Though this site suggests 
40% but gived reasons why they shouldn't be left in.

I had a IBM T23 battery that was heading downwords fast, and it did arrest 
the downword spiral, didn't make it better though :~(.

In message , Al Menzies 
 writes
>the women I know who have taken HRT have found that they just delayed 
>their menopause.

I don't want to be smug or unfeeling here, but several years ago my 
Doctor told me not to hesitate to go and see her if I experienced any 
menopausal problems.  "I don't intend to experience any!"  I said.  And 
I didn't.

In fact, if I've even had a menopause I'm not aware of it!!  (Earlier 
surgery having precluded(1) the most obvious sign.)

(1)  I know about "pre-" of course, but where does "clude" come from. 
In this context it doesn't seem to bear much relation to include, but I 
suppose it must.
-- 
Jenny
"I always like to have the morning well-aired before I get up."
(Beau Brummel, 1778-1840)

On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 22:45:50 +0200, Gumrat  wrote:

>Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>> After a truly ghastly (and expensive) couple of weeks getting the laptop
>> mended, it finally seems to be behaving - although I won't relax properly
>> for a few days.  (Oh, how I laughed when I got it back last Friday
>> evening, and twenty minutes later the major and allegedly cured problem 
>> recurred.) Anyway, the easiest problem to identify and solve was a knackered 
>> battery.  The menders have explained that my ignorant habit of leaving it 
>> permanently plugged into the mains has done this.  What they haven't managed 
>> to explain clearly is how much I need to unplug it to preserve the battery.
>> 
>> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
Nice to see you Sid and I hope all is well now with the laptop. Did
you get a refund if they hadn't fixed it?
>> 
>Sorry, I've no idea. At all.
>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>Good to see you back, missed the bons mots and the Green Tablets 
>(helluva week, best part of which is the lump is a benign cyst. 
>Allegedly. Peri-menopause - Hot flushes. Migraines. Obesity. Who'd have 
>'em. Well, me, apparently. Any Umratic words on HRT? Am trying 
>homeopathic methods but really didn't realize menopause would be this 
>bad). Oh, Sorry, Sid, I didn't see Matron there..
I used HRT for about 18 months.  The pros were things about protecting
umbrellas from umbrellas against umbrellas.  I had some other problems
then with weight gain, difficulty losing, taking Tyroxine for an
under-active thyroid and nobody being sure whether that now affected
the weight loss or how it reacted with HRT and which of all that
caused the arthritis to be worse.  

At this point #1 daughter said she thought I was taking too many
substances and surely I'd be better not on HRT but doing it naturally.
She convinced me and I stopped.  Around that time the advice of  the
wonderful Slimmingworld umrat inspired me to try too and it worked.

  That helped all the things wrong, pains in limbs, obesity,
difficulty walking.  And I cheered up too.  But it could be that I
just got over the divorce or it could be several other
things.....Life's like that :)

Al Menzies wrote:
<snip very helpful stuff re menopause>
> Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
> happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
> 
The next thread I read on Umra made me laugh, so I can vouch for the 
fact it works :-9

Thank you and everyone else who has posted and mailed me about this. I 
shall save it all for later cogitation, being in the middle of 
(dis)organising the secondary school disco for tonight..

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

"badriya"  wrote 

<snip>

> I used HRT for about 18 months.  The pros were things about protecting
> umbrellas from umbrellas against umbrellas.  

Bones against osteoporosis?

My mum took HRT for some years for that reason.

-- 
SB

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 10:24:45 +0100, Jenny M Benson
 wrote:

>In message , Al Menzies 
> writes
>>the women I know who have taken HRT have found that they just delayed 
>>their menopause.
>
>I don't want to be smug or unfeeling here, but several years ago my 
>Doctor told me not to hesitate to go and see her if I experienced any 
>menopausal problems.  "I don't intend to experience any!"  I said.  And 
>I didn't.
>
>In fact, if I've even had a menopause I'm not aware of it!!  (Earlier 
>surgery having precluded(1) the most obvious sign.)
>
>(1)  I know about "pre-" of course, but where does "clude" come from. 
>In this context it doesn't seem to bear much relation to include, but I 
>suppose it must.

It's from the Latin claudo, which meant to shut something that is
open, according to Lewis & Short.  So "include" means to shut
something in, or contain it, while "preclude" means to shut something
in advance, or to close it off.
-- 
Stephen

Into my heart an air that kills From yon far country blows:
What are those blue remembered hills, What spires, what farms are those?
That is the land of lost content, I see it shining plain,
The happy highways where I went And cannot come again.

That sounds like it would have been a pro for taking it.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 17:40:00 +0100, "Steve Brooks"
<steveb@postmaster.invalid> wrote:

>
>"badriya"  wrote 
>
><snip>
>
>> I used HRT for about 18 months.  The pros were things about protecting
>> umbrellas from umbrellas against umbrellas.  
>
>Bones against osteoporosis?
>
>My mum took HRT for some years for that reason.

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:02:29 +0100, Kate Brown
 wrote:


>Peri-menopause, been there, done that, still on the little 
>KeepYouYoung pills, doctors can't seem to make up their minds as to 
>whether they are a Good or Bad thing overall, but if I stop I still get 
>terrible flushes and deep glooms, and not all the Black Cohosh in the 
>little shop of horrors can alleviate them.  So I keep on.  Apparently 
>Teresa Gorman has been on them for years and years.  This may not be an 
>ideal advertisement, of course.

It didn't so much creep up on me as ambush me suddenly with tremendous
force - I was breaking out into a sweat about three times an hour,
followed by chills. I thought "stuff this for a lark" and went to my
GP straight away who put me on HRT. I found that it was impossible to
maintain my weight and took myself off it after about 18 months, and
within days the thermostat packed up again, so I resumed the course.
Finally after about 4-5 years I saw a GP (not my usual one) because I
was having quite severe daily breast pains but no feeling of a lump;
however, it was known that I had a bit of non-malignant calcification
(the boob doctor called it "my little bit of chalk" and I said I was a
teacher and I had to keep it somewhere) and she said she really felt I
should get off the HRT (mammogram showed no change in the status quo,
luckily) and that I _would_ get the flushes, but I should just try to
ride it out, or take black cohosh if it worked for me, and eventually
they would stop. The black cohosh did nothing whatsoever for it, but I
did learn, as she said, just to ride it out, and after several months,
maybe even a year, I suddenly realised it wasn't happening any more.

Now I consider myself to be a fully certificated graduate! :o) 

lff

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 00:48:06 +0200, Jo Lonergan
 wrote:

>Ah, so it does make a difference if you let it run right down, not
>just to the point where you get the warning?

That was what I was told to do - my first computer was a laptop, and I
found this running down very difficult, because it used to beep when
the battery was getting low. It seemed almost human, and I couldn't
stand it - I had to shut the door and go into another room, just like
leaving a baby to cry itself to sleep.

But then I was also "personally" attached to my next computer which
was a lovely Acorn. I loved it, we'd bought it because it was in those
days the only thing you could run Sibelius on, Windows having been
declared by the writers to be too slow, and they'd said there would
never be a PC version. Then after about a year they did manage the big
breakthrough and produced the windows version, with a promise that the
Acorn version was to follow, but a few months later came the letter
with the bad news: Acorn had stopped all development, there was to be
not C++ code there, and no upgrade for the Acorn. I don't mind saying
I cried loud and long at that news because the initial outlay had been
a lot and it had only been 15 months. If I was to upgrade, I had to
buy a PC, which I did. I talked to the Acorn as I switched it off and
unplugged everything, trying to explain why I had to do this, but I
felt very disloyal, and I felt even worse when, for a while, I needed
(can't remember why) to run the monitor "through" the Acorn for it to
work with the PC - it felt like someone leaving his wife for another
woman but still bringing her the laundry to do.

I ran them both together for a while by means of a switch box which
let me choose A for Acorn or B for B****y Microsoft. The Acorn is now
skulking in the spare room like the first Mrs Rochester.

lff

On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
wrote:
>
>Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.

I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
full-blown laughter

lff

In article , Jane Vernon
 wrote:
> As to Gumrat's problems, you have my sympathies.  

and mine - been there, done that!

I avoided the KYY pills becasue, from what I'ld read

>It seemed to me that the coming off was worse than the menopause is for 
>most people.

so just deferring the problem didn't seem an answer.

the only advice I'ld give is to dress in layers, so that you can remove/add
as necessary, and keep a fan (hand-powered sort) nearby - I found that very
helpful during flushes.

For a couple of years my theme tune was 'is it hot or is it me?', but it
does gradually ease off, and being post-menopausal is great!

Rosemary


-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

"BrritSki"  wrote

> I tend to run mine on battery until I get the warning message and then 
> plug it in, or at least switch the socket on.

Thanks, Britters - and to all who advised.  Very helpful.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

In message , Siderius Nuncius 
 writes
>
>"BrritSki"  wrote
>
>> I tend to run mine on battery until I get the warning message and then
>> plug it in, or at least switch the socket on.
>
>Thanks, Britters - and to all who advised.  Very helpful.

I should have picked up on this earlier really - just at the point 
BrritSki added his comment - and then I could have replied:

Something to do with the Beach Boys, Britters?

Toodle Oooooooohhhhhhhaaaaarrrrgghhh!
-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

Jo Lonergan wrote:
> On Thu, 19 Jun 2008 23:19:58 +0100, Neil Hopkins
>  wrote:
> 
>> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>>
>>> I do understand that I mustn't leave it plugged in overnight, but do I need
>>> to run it down regularly as well?  And if so, how far down and how
>>> regularly?  This is the sort of thing that umrats are always knowledgeable
>>> about and I'd be glad of any advice, MOPsMOBs.
>>>
>>> It's good to be back - I've missed you.
>> Good to see you, MOPMOB!
>>
>> Memory effect on modern batteries is not too much of problem, really. 
>> Just keep a weather eye on how long a full charge lasts, and if it 
>> starts to decline noticably do a full charge and run it down to nothing 
>> before recharging it again which should allow the battery to recalibrate 
>> itself.
> 
> Ah, so it does make a difference if you let it run right down, not
> just to the point where you get the warning?
> 

The way I used to do it was to hit F8 as it was booting to put it into 
the BIOS menu, and then just leave it until it died completely. I then 
charged it completely before rebooting and then let the windows power 
management thing recalibrate itself.

-- 
neil h
google brights

In message , Linda Fox 
 writes
[]
>But then I was also "personally" attached to my next computer which
>was a lovely Acorn. I loved it, we'd bought it because it was in those
[]
>a lot and it had only been 15 months. If I was to upgrade, I had to
>buy a PC, which I did. I talked to the Acorn as I switched it off and
>unplugged everything, trying to explain why I had to do this, but I
>felt very disloyal, and I felt even worse when, for a while, I needed
[]
I presume this was Archimedes or similar. I, too, felt disloyal when I 
switched from the Acorn stable: from BBC Master to 386-based PC. (Might 
have been in 198x.) Unfortunately, there was a point thereabouts when to 
switch to a machine of similar performance in the Acorn line (which I 
think _would_ have been an Arc) would have cost sufficiently more than 
the PC that I just had to do it. But I still felt bad; the Acorn seemed 
so much better designed (software wise in particular). [Mind you, there 
was also quite a paradigm shift in the way the Arcs operated compared to 
how the B and Master had, which also pushed me - i. e. if I was going to 
have to learn a new way anyway ...]

I did have (still do I think) some way of making the BBC Master able to 
emulate a very basic PC - I think it ran DR DOS 2.x; I think it involved 
a "second processor" (which I think was an Intel [80]186). This was all 
floppy-based though - I never got a hard disc (remember when they were 
called Winchesters, for reasons that are the source of arguments) for 
the BBC machine I had. (I'd never had a B - went straight to a Master 
from my Tangerine > Oric > Atmos.)
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

simplest ideas often best. Thus why _Desert Island Discs_ (pick favourite
music)
has been going 55 years, _Any Questions?_(discuss topical issue) 49, and
_Letter
from America_ (short talk about golf) 51. [Roland White, Radio Times 10-16 May
1997 (edited).]

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 01:30:08 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
 wrote:

>I presume this was Archimedes or similar. I, too, felt disloyal when I 
>switched from the Acorn stable: from BBC Master to 386-based PC. (Might 
>have been in 198x.) Unfortunately, there was a point thereabouts when to 
>switch to a machine of similar performance in the Acorn line (which I 
>think _would_ have been an Arc) would have cost sufficiently more than 
>the PC that I just had to do it. 

I can't remember the number of my Acorn machine, but I got it in about
1997, and the entire package, including the Sibelius software and the
laser printer, came to about £3K, although Sibelius was near on a
thousand pounds in those days and it didn't do half what it does now.
That's one reason I was so sore about having the rug pulled out from
under my feet 15 months later.
>
>I did have (still do I think) some way of making the BBC Master able to 
>emulate a very basic PC - I think it ran DR DOS 2.x; I think it involved 
>a "second processor" (which I think was an Intel [80]186). 

I bought a PC card for the Acorn which ran Windows 3.1 and I installed
it myself (!!!!me!!!!) yes, the Acorn was _that_ easy, you just opened
the lid and saw the slot and slipped the card in. But Sibelius for
Windows needed Windows 95 which in our case we had not got.

lff

In message , Linda Fox 
 writes
>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
>wrote:
>>
>>Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>>happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
>
>I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
>full-blown laughter
>
Something I was listening to the other week - in connection with cancer 
therapy - does indeed say laughter is the best medicine in many 
situations.  It was probably something in Y & Y.

Sincerely Chris
-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0100, chris mcmillan
 wrote:

>In message , Linda Fox 
> writes
>>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>>>happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
>>
>>I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
>>full-blown laughter
>>
>Something I was listening to the other week - in connection with cancer 
>therapy - does indeed say laughter is the best medicine in many 
>situations.  It was probably something in Y & Y.

Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off. You can smile at
any time. Even if you are feeling tired, ratty, stressed, angry or
miserable (or all of these), you can force a smile. Even a forced
smile will set off the endorphins and make you feel better. You will
probably look a bit daft, grinning inanely, but the end justifies the
means.

-- 
al
LSM
Licensed to flame

"Linda Fox"  wrote

> Acorn was _that_ easy, you just opened
> the lid and saw the slot and slipped the card in.

You saying that has jogged my memory.  I think I may have gone out with her.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:59:52 +0100, Al Menzies 
wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0100, chris mcmillan
> wrote:
>
>>In message , Linda Fox 
>> writes
>>>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>>>>happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
>>>
>>>I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
>>>full-blown laughter
>>>
>>Something I was listening to the other week - in connection with cancer 
>>therapy - does indeed say laughter is the best medicine in many 
>>situations.  It was probably something in Y & Y.
>
>Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off. You can smile at
>any time. Even if you are feeling tired, ratty, stressed, angry or
>miserable (or all of these), you can force a smile. Even a forced
>smile will set off the endorphins and make you feel better. You will
>probably look a bit daft, grinning inanely, but the end justifies the
>means.

You mean even a grimace wil do it?

lff

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 21:35:30 +0100, "Siderius Nuncius"
 wrote:

>
>"Linda Fox"  wrote
>
>> Acorn was _that_ easy, you just opened
>> the lid and saw the slot and slipped the card in.
>
>You saying that has jogged my memory.  I think I may have gone out with her.

YALizbuffAICM5hugs

lff

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 22:14:11 GMT, Linda Fox 
wrote:

>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:59:52 +0100, Al Menzies 
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0100, chris mcmillan
>> wrote:
>>
>>>In message , Linda Fox 
>>> writes
>>>>On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>>>>>happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
>>>>
>>>>I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
>>>>full-blown laughter
>>>>
>>>Something I was listening to the other week - in connection with cancer 
>>>therapy - does indeed say laughter is the best medicine in many 
>>>situations.  It was probably something in Y & Y.
>>
>>Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off. You can smile at
>>any time. Even if you are feeling tired, ratty, stressed, angry or
>>miserable (or all of these), you can force a smile. Even a forced
>>smile will set off the endorphins and make you feel better. You will
>>probably look a bit daft, grinning inanely, but the end justifies the
>>means.
>
>You mean even a grimace wil do it?

If you can smile and grimace at the same time, I can't see why not :)

-- 
al
LSM
Licensed to flame

In article , Linda Fox
 wrote:
> I can't remember the number of my Acorn machine, but I got it in about
> 1997,

That was probably a RiscPC, similar to the one on which I'm typing this!

>I bought a PC card for the Acorn which ran Windows 3.1 and I installed
>it myself (!!!!me!!!!) yes, the Acorn was _that_ easy, you just opened
>the lid and saw the slot and slipped the card in. But Sibelius for
>Windows needed Windows 95 which in our case we had not got.

But you could have got it: the PC card in the m/c runs Win95 - rather
slowly, although I haven't used it for ages.

RiscOS lives - but not in a very good state of health. Linda's brother
Martin is still spoken of fondly.

Rosemary
  



-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

"Al Menzies"  wrote
>
> If you can smile and grimace at the same time,

And treat those two impostors just the same...er...

That's not quite right, is it?
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

Al Menzies wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:28:38 +0100, chris mcmillan
>  wrote:
> 
>> In message , Linda Fox 
>>  writes
>>> On Fri, 20 Jun 2008 09:08:01 +0100, Al Menzies 
>>> wrote:
>>>> Did you know that smiling sets off endorphins that make you feel
>>>> happy? This is the best drug-free way of feeling better that I know.
>>> I'm quite convinced of it, or rather of the medicinal power of
>>> full-blown laughter
>>>
>> Something I was listening to the other week - in connection with cancer 
>> therapy - does indeed say laughter is the best medicine in many 
>> situations.  It was probably something in Y & Y.
> 
> Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off. You can smile at
> any time. Even if you are feeling tired, ratty, stressed, angry or
> miserable (or all of these), you can force a smile. Even a forced
> smile will set off the endorphins and make you feel better. You will
> probably look a bit daft, grinning inanely, but the end justifies the
> means.
> 
One caveat on this laughter is the best medicine...

After my appendix op. I was in a convalescent home and allowed up to 
watch TV. Unfortunately it was Marty Feldman, and included the sketch of 
the football match commentary of the brave English lads against the 
shambling half-men from the Argtentinian pampas.

That hurt  :)

Siderius Nuncius wrote:
> "Linda Fox"  wrote
> 
>> Acorn was _that_ easy, you just opened
>> the lid and saw the slot and slipped the card in.
> 
> You saying that has jogged my memory.  I think I may have gone out with her.

Just one of your Antiques eh Sid ?

On 23 Jun, 06:58, "Siderius Nuncius"  wrote:
> "Al Menzies"  wrote
>
> > If you can smile and grimace at the same time,
>
> And treat those two impostors just the same...er...
>
> That's not quite right, is it?

We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
control.
Wofe chose "If".
I'd've gone for alimerick, meself,

On 22 Jun, 20:59, Al Menzies  wrote:

> Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off.

Laughter is a horrible joint attack on any outsider by a group of
humans.
Anyone seen to be odd or acting strange may be a danger to their tribe/
group and must be dealt with in a gregarious society. Laughter bonds
the group in attack on the victim. That way any dangerous genes can be
dealt with and any behaviour kept in order.

Of course we, in the modern world, are far above such animal
behaviour.
We pay people to be laughed at.

But

What really is funny about someone falling over or doing something
embarrasing?
Try watching "You've been framed" in a new light.
More than an Orwellian "five minute hate".

Saturday night just got a whole load better.

Bob E wrote:
> On 23 Jun, 06:58, "Siderius Nuncius"  wrote:
>> "Al Menzies"  wrote
>>
>>> If you can smile and grimace at the same time,
>> And treat those two impostors just the same...er...
>>
>> That's not quite right, is it?
> 
> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
> control.
> Wofe chose "If".
> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself

A woman in labour cried "No!
Please don't tell that I have to go
Any longer than this;
I think someone's remiss,
In not snatching the babe from below."

-- 
David

"the Omrud"  wrote
> Bob E wrote:

>> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>> control.
>> Wofe chose "If".
>> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself
>
> A woman in labour cried "No!
> Please don't tell that I have to go
> Any longer than this;
> I think someone's remiss,
> In not snatching the babe from below."

Your completely deluded male brain
Might think poetry eases the pain.
Well it doesn't, in fact,
And you're going to get whacked
If you ever come near me again.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

Siderius Nuncius wrote:
> "the Omrud"  wrote
>> Bob E wrote:
> 
>>> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>>> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>>> control.
>>> Wofe chose "If".
>>> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself
>> A woman in labour cried "No!
>> Please don't tell that I have to go
>> Any longer than this;
>> I think someone's remiss,
>> In not snatching the babe from below."
> 
> Your completely deluded male brain
> Might think poetry eases the pain.
> Well it doesn't, in fact,
> And you're going to get whacked
> If you ever come near me again.

I'm sorry to sound rather terse
But... childbirth assisted by verse?
To pain, sweat and tears,
To primordial fears,
You want to add something much worse?


Kimbo xx
-- 
www.bykimbo.com

In message 
, Bob 
E  writes
>On 23 Jun, 06:58, "Siderius Nuncius"  wrote:
>> "Al Menzies"  wrote
>>
>> > If you can smile and grimace at the same time,
>>
>> And treat those two impostors just the same...er...
>>
>> That's not quite right, is it?
>
>We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>control.
>Wofe chose "If".
>I'd've gone for alimerick, meself,

Gungadiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

In message , Rosemary 
Miskin  writes
>In article , Linda Fox
> wrote:
>> I can't remember the number of my Acorn machine, but I got it in about
>> 1997,
>
>RiscOS lives - but not in a very good state of health.

One of my friends also still has a Risc.  So far has refused to move to 
PC.  He's been talking of buying a PC since 1998 but so far has managed 
to do everything he needs on the Risc.

Sincerely Chris
-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

"Bob E"  wrote

> Laughter is a horrible joint attack on any outsider by a group of
> humans.

It can be.  It certainly isn't always.  Sometimes it's just a group or a 
couple of humans being harmlessly silly.  Or witty.  Or clever.  Or lots of 
other harmless and victimless things..

In what way does ISIHAC, for example, fall into your definition?
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

"Kim Andrews"  wrote
> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>> "the Omrud"  wrote
>>> Bob E wrote:
>>
>>>> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>>>> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>>>> control.
>>>> Wofe chose "If".
>>>> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself
>>> A woman in labour cried "No!
>>> Please don't tell that I have to go
>>> Any longer than this;
>>> I think someone's remiss,
>>> In not snatching the babe from below."
>>
>> Your completely deluded male brain
>> Might think poetry eases the pain.
>> Well it doesn't, in fact,
>> And you're going to get whacked
>> If you ever come near me again.
>
> I'm sorry to sound rather terse
> But... childbirth assisted by verse?
> To pain, sweat and tears,
> To primordial fears,
> You want to add something much worse?

Men may think that childbirth's a breeze
And want to try every new wheeze
To avoid anaesthetic -
Well, it's bloody pathetic.
What - poetry now?  Oh, puh-lease!
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply

"Siderius Nuncius"  wrote in 
news:6caff8F3es79uU4@mid.individual.net:

> 
> "Kim Andrews"  wrote
>> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>>> "the Omrud"  wrote
>>>> Bob E wrote:
>>>
>>>>> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>>>>> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>>>>> control.
>>>>> Wofe chose "If".
>>>>> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself
>>>> A woman in labour cried "No!
>>>> Please don't tell that I have to go
>>>> Any longer than this;
>>>> I think someone's remiss,
>>>> In not snatching the babe from below."
>>>
>>> Your completely deluded male brain
>>> Might think poetry eases the pain.
>>> Well it doesn't, in fact,
>>> And you're going to get whacked
>>> If you ever come near me again.
>>
>> I'm sorry to sound rather terse
>> But... childbirth assisted by verse?
>> To pain, sweat and tears,
>> To primordial fears,
>> You want to add something much worse?
> 
> Men may think that childbirth's a breeze
> And want to try every new wheeze
> To avoid anaesthetic -
> Well, it's bloody pathetic.
> What - poetry now?  Oh, puh-lease!

Without wishing to discourage further contributions, BUMRA!
-- 
Jim                             <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:42:16 -0700 (PDT), Bob E
 wrote:

>On 23 Jun, 06:58, "Siderius Nuncius"  wrote:
>> "Al Menzies"  wrote
>>
>> > If you can smile and grimace at the same time,
>>
>> And treat those two impostors just the same...er...
>>
>> That's not quite right, is it?
>
>We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>control.
>Wofe chose "If".
>I'd've gone for alimerick, meself,
We had to choose a song to sing for breath control. Oh no, push
control.  You can't push and sing at the same time apparently.  Mine
was Bobby Mcgee.

On 23 Jun, 22:16, badriya  wrote:


> We had to choose a song to sing for breath control. Oh no, push
> control.  You can't push and sing at the same time apparently.  Mine
> was Bobby Mcgee.

So that's how Ms Joplin acheived that voice - just imagining
"squeezing one out"

Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose
  Nothin' don't mean nothin' hon' if it ain't free, no no

In message 
, Bob E 
 writes
>On 22 Jun, 20:59, Al Menzies  wrote:
>
>> Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off.
>
>Laughter is a horrible joint attack on any outsider by a group of
>humans.

It certainly can be.

>Anyone seen to be odd or acting strange may be a danger to their tribe/
>group and must be dealt with in a gregarious society. Laughter bonds
>the group in attack on the victim. That way any dangerous genes can be
>dealt with and any behaviour kept in order.
>
>Of course we, in the modern world, are far above such animal
>behaviour.
>We pay people to be laughed at.

It's not always so - as anotherrat has said, ISIHAC (and JAM, and ...) 
are often sources of targetless laughter. (OK, you _can_ probably find 
the target if you _really_ work hard at it. But it's a bit like the 
people who can find child abuse, terrorism etc. in anything.)
>
>But
>
>What really is funny about someone falling over or doing something
>embarrasing?
>Try watching "You've been framed" in a new light.
>More than an Orwellian "five minute hate".

However, I certainly agree with you there -
>
>Saturday night just got a whole load better.

- I hate those prog.s with quite a vehemence. OK, we're all different, 
and I don't want to stop anyone else watching and enjoying them - as 
long as they don't want me to.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

Can a blue man sing the whites?

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:55:46 -0700 (PDT), Bob E
 wrote:

>On 22 Jun, 20:59, Al Menzies  wrote:
>
>> Laughing usually needs something funny to set it off.
>
>Laughter is a horrible joint attack on any outsider by a group of
>humans.
>Anyone seen to be odd or acting strange may be a danger to their tribe/
>group and must be dealt with in a gregarious society. Laughter bonds
>the group in attack on the victim. That way any dangerous genes can be
>dealt with and any behaviour kept in order.
>
I don't find that funny. What's far more likely to make me laugh is
discovering that other people are as absurd as I am.

>Of course we, in the modern world, are far above such animal
>behaviour.
>We pay people to be laughed at.
>
>But
>
>What really is funny about someone falling over or doing something
>embarrasing?

Nothing, usually.

>Try watching "You've been framed" in a new light.
>More than an Orwellian "five minute hate".
>
Deeply unfunny and embarrassing.

>Saturday night just got a whole load better.

It couldn't get more dire, and that goes for the whole of Western (at
least) Europe. Why? I'm more often at home on Saturday evening than on
any other, and I'm not ashamed of it. At least there's Dr Who (three
times, in fact, as they're repeating the first season on BBC Prime)

-- 
Jo

In article <3e9e9e1a-4453-41d8-b088-9c297ab0b661@z66g2000hsc.googlegr[...]>,
Bob E  wrote:
> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself,

They tend to be too short!  In labour, you need something that will last.

Rosemary


-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

Kim Andrews wrote:
> Siderius Nuncius wrote:
>> "the Omrud"  wrote
>>> Bob E wrote:
>>
>>>> We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>>>> There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>>>> control.
>>>> Wofe chose "If".
>>>> I'd've gone for alimerick, meself
>>> A woman in labour cried "No!
>>> Please don't tell that I have to go
>>> Any longer than this;
>>> I think someone's remiss,
>>> In not snatching the babe from below."
>>
>> Your completely deluded male brain
>> Might think poetry eases the pain.
>> Well it doesn't, in fact,
>> And you're going to get whacked
>> If you ever come near me again.
> 
> I'm sorry to sound rather terse
> But... childbirth assisted by verse?
> To pain, sweat and tears,
> To primordial fears,
> You want to add something much worse?
>
Labour to poetry ?  Per-leeze.
You've made me go weak at the knees
What started as Larkin'
Soon led on to farkin'
And now someones telling me "squeeze".

"badriya"  wrote
> On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 09:42:16 -0700 (PDT), Bob E wrote:
>>
>>We went to NCT classes before first offsprung was due.
>>There was some talk of reciting poetry as a mental aid for pain
>>control.
>>Wofe chose "If".
>>I'd've gone for alimerick, meself,

> We had to choose a song to sing for breath control. Oh no, push
> control.  You can't push and sing at the same time apparently.  Mine
> was Bobby Mcgee.

Return Placenta
I'm The Guy Who Found The Lost Cord
See You Later, Incubator
Forceps To Heaven
and, of course, the very beginning of Chantilly Lace.
-- 
Sid
Make sure Matron is away when you reply