I heard this prog earlier in the week and thoroughly enjoyed it. The 
contrast between a games organised on a shoestring and the bloated monster 
it's become was quite stark. I can't help thinking that the 1948 games came 
far closer to the Olympic ideal than the 2012 version will.

But, hearing a snatch again on PotW, I was reminded of the fact that 
rationing got worse after the end of the war. Can anyrat explain to me why 
this happened?

-- 
SB

"Steve Brooks" <steveb@postmaster.invalid> wrote in message 
news:mvc5k.188352$cZ3.95484@newsfe10.ams2...
>I heard this prog earlier in the week and thoroughly enjoyed it. The 
>contrast between a games organised on a shoestring and the bloated monster 
>it's become was quite stark. I can't help thinking that the 1948 games came 
>far closer to the Olympic ideal than the 2012 version will.
>
> But, hearing a snatch again on PotW, I was reminded of the fact that 
> rationing got worse after the end of the war. Can anyrat explain to me why 
> this happened?

Because
(i) after the war there were fewer people working on the land in the UK,
(ii) overseas producers took time to build up supplies for exports having 
seen their European markets disappear during the war, and
(iii) because we were collectively broke.

I also imagine that post-war governments of either hue were wedded to the 
idea of state control, in much the same way that all post-1980 governments 
have embraced free markets.

In message <mvc5k.188352$cZ3.95484@newsfe10.ams2>, Steve Brooks 
<steveb@postmaster.invalid> writes
>I heard this prog earlier in the week and thoroughly enjoyed it. The 
>contrast between a games organised on a shoestring and the bloated 
>monster it's become was quite stark. I can't help thinking that the 
>1948 games came far closer to the Olympic ideal than the 2012 version 
>will.

Agreed. Though I will admit to a certain amount of enjoyment of the 
massed midnight-blue pianos in the opening ceremony a few years ago in 
(I think it was) San Francisco: if you're going to be over the top, 
_really_ go over the top, and with hudspah. (And the _closing_ ceremony 
for the Sydney ones was fun too - complete with Kylie as Priscilla - boy 
those Aussies know how to party.)
>
>But, hearing a snatch again on PotW, I was reminded of the fact that 
>rationing got worse after the end of the war. Can anyrat explain to me 
>why this happened?
>
See next
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've got the cheque!

We shall never - never! - allow foreigners to run our economy. They might cure
it. (George Mikes, "How to be Decadent" [1977].)

In message , Mark Williams 
<spam.me@your.peril> writes
[]
>> But, hearing a snatch again on PotW, I was reminded of the fact that
>> rationing got worse after the end of the war. Can anyrat explain to me why
>> this happened?
>
>Because
>(i) after the war there were fewer people working on the land in the UK,
>(ii) overseas producers took time to build up supplies for exports having
>seen their European markets disappear during the war, and
>(iii) because we were collectively broke.
[]
And partly as a result of (iii) food supplies from USA stopped.

Perhaps (iv) home production was no longer on a war footing and just 
maybe (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true 
- all the forces back home; my "just maybe" was whether this actually 
made a difference).

In non-food items at least (e. g. new motor cars - though these weren't 
"rationed" as such - though in effect they were), there was also a 
further result of (iii) that production had to be for export as we 
needed the money, so home supplies more or less dried up.
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've got the cheque!

We shall never - never! - allow foreigners to run our economy. They might cure
it. (George Mikes, "How to be Decadent" [1977].)

On Wed, 18 Jun 2008, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote
>In message , Mark Williams 
><spam.me@your.peril> writes
>[]
>>> But, hearing a snatch again on PotW, I was reminded of the fact that
>>> rationing got worse after the end of the war. Can anyrat explain to me why
>>> this happened?
>>
>>Because
>>(i) after the war there were fewer people working on the land in the UK,
>>(ii) overseas producers took time to build up supplies for exports having
>>seen their European markets disappear during the war, and
>>(iii) because we were collectively broke.
>[]
>And partly as a result of (iii) food supplies from USA stopped.

Not entirely.  Very interesting article by Felicity Lawrence* in the 
Grauniad G2 on the lasting effects of the Marshall Plan on diet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/jun/16/food.biofuels

(*proxy kf on behalf of the Gumrat and my sister who were schoolpals 
with Felicity's sister, perhaps herself, not sure, am too ancient.)

-- 
Kate B

PS 'elvira' is spamtrapped - please reply to 'elviraspam' at cockaigne dot org dot uk if you
want to reply personally

In article , "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
 wrote:
> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true 
> - all the forces back home

busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!

Rosemary 

-- 
Rosemary Miskin     ZFC Pm   miskin@orpheusmail.co.uk
Loughborough, UK             http://miskin.orpheusweb.co.uk

In message , Rosemary 
Miskin  writes
>In article , "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
> wrote:
>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true
>> - all the forces back home
>
>busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!
[]
Boom, boom ...
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

God must love the common man; He made so many of them.

Rosemary Miskin  writes:
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote:
>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true 
>> - all the forces back home
>
>busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!

look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.

(it was probably a mistake, anyway.  i'm a dead loss: can't even keep
up with umra.)
-- 
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge

Robin Fairbairns wrote:
>  Rosemary Miskin  writes:
>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote:
>>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true 
>>> - all the forces back home
>> busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!
> 
> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
> 
> (it was probably a mistake, anyway.  i'm a dead loss: can't even keep
> up with umra.)

YAEeyoreAICM5Thistles.

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:35:37 +0200, BrritSki 
wrote:

>Robin Fairbairns wrote:
>>  Rosemary Miskin  writes:
>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote:
>>>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true 
>>>> - all the forces back home
>>> busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!
>> 
>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>> 
>> (it was probably a mistake, anyway.  i'm a dead loss: can't even keep
>> up with umra.)
>
>YAEeyoreAICM5Thistles.

That's what I keep telling him. It's like Eeyore meets Pollyanna in
this house on a good day ("if it _is_ a good day. Which I doubt.")
Still, all that various hair is nice and snuggly all the same.

lff

On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
wrote:
>
>look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>
I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
would you recommend?

lff

In message , Linda Fox 
 writes
>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:35:37 +0200, BrritSki 
>wrote:
>
>>Robin Fairbairns wrote:
>>>  Rosemary Miskin  writes:
>>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote:
>>>>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true
>>>>> - all the forces back home
>>>> busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!
>>>
>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>
>>> (it was probably a mistake, anyway.  i'm a dead loss: can't even keep
>>> up with umra.)
>>
>>YAEeyoreAICM5Thistles.
>
>That's what I keep telling him. It's like Eeyore meets Pollyanna in
>this house on a good day ("if it _is_ a good day. Which I doubt.")
>Still, all that various hair is nice and snuggly all the same.
>
>lff
TMI!
-- 
Mike McMillan,
The email address is spam trapped but any genuine communications may be sent to
mike dot mcmillan at ntlworld dot com

"Let's all calm down shall we? Let's forget there is a llama in here at all."
(Lynda Snell, 010603)

Tel: (+44) 0118 9265450. website: <http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.mcmillan/>

In message , Linda Fox 
 writes
>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 09:35:37 +0200, BrritSki 
>wrote:
>
>>Robin Fairbairns wrote:
>>>  Rosemary Miskin  writes:
>>>> "J. P. Gilliver (John)"  wrote:
>>>>> (v) there were more people to feed (well, this was certainly true
>>>>> - all the forces back home
>>>> busily fathering babies and thus increasing the population even more!
>>>
>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>
>>> (it was probably a mistake, anyway.  i'm a dead loss: can't even keep
>>> up with umra.)
>>
>>YAEeyoreAICM5Thistles.

Forgive me if I've said it (here) before: does anyone else think Marvin 
was Eeyore for the 1970s-'80s?
>
>That's what I keep telling him. It's like Eeyore meets Pollyanna in

Sounds a lovely household.

>this house on a good day ("if it _is_ a good day. Which I doubt.")
>Still, all that various hair is nice and snuggly all the same.
>
>lff
-- 
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL(+++)IS-P--Ch+(p)Ar+T[?]H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
** http://www.soft255.demon.co.uk/G6JPG-PC/JPGminPC.htm for thoughts on PCs. **

I've banked the cheque!

Hi! I'm a .signature virus! Copy me into yours and join the fun! (Done ...)

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> Forgive me if I've said it (here) before: does anyone else think Marvin 
> was Eeyore for the 1970s-'80s?

I've heard it said that Adams must have been thinking of Eeyore, even if 
unconsciously.

-- 
David

Linda Fox wrote:
> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
> wrote:
>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>
> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
> would you recommend?
> 

Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
(different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
going/did you go?


-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
 wrote:

>Linda Fox wrote:
>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>> wrote:
>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>
>> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
>> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
>> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
>> would you recommend?
>> 
>
>Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
>(different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
>going/did you go?

First time to Hersonnisos - the town itself is a well-known clubby
nightlife place, and as we arrived in the small hours and the bus
suddenly slowed down to a crawl and everything was lit up like day
with sozzled people wandering around and a lot of jangly music, we
thought "oh no, this isn't what we want" but then it carried on
through to the quieter part, and we were dropped off at our place and
given the key to our studio. We were woken by cicadas a few hours
later and looked out onto a little terrace, small palms and a very
blue sea. That's the morning I always think of when they say just
relax and think of somewhere lovely. The best part of it is the
open-air museum of Cretan life, called Lichnostatis (sp?)

Two years later we went to the south coast, to Plakias. You can't go
nowhere without doing winding roads and deep gorges, so it's beautiful
but frightening. We invented the warning LOLAC when driving through
villages, which stands for Little Old Lady Around Corner. 

Both times we didn't want to leave, ever. But it's just possible we
might never go back again what with qualms about carbon and the fact
that Robin has had a DVT and a PE and it seems the only way really is
to fly, unless you take a train all the way to Athens and then a ferry
from Piraeus, and by then it will be time to go home again.

I fear for the economic future of places like Crete which are so
dependent on tourism, as flying looks likely to become more and more
of a problem because of fuel prices.

lff

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 12:51:48 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
 scrawled in the dust...

>Forgive me if I've said it (here) before: does anyone else think Marvin 
>was Eeyore for the 1970s-'80s?

I said that when I first heard him on the radio all those years ago and
have been repeating my theory to general agreement ever since.
-- 
Penny
There are unexpected holes in my ignorance.
umra Nicknames & Abbreviations http://www.umra.freeuk.com/nicks.html

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
 wrote:

>Linda Fox wrote:
>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>> wrote:
>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>
>> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
>> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
>> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
>> would you recommend?
>> 
>
>Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
>(different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
>going/did you go?
I've never been to Crete or Greece so if anyone wants a companion to
go with them......

badriya wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
>  wrote:
> 
>> Linda Fox wrote:
>>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>>> wrote:
>>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>>
>>> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
>>> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
>>> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
>>> would you recommend?
>>>
>> Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
>> (different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
>> going/did you go?
> I've never been to Crete or Greece so if anyone wants a companion to
> go with them......
> 
Mykonos. Out of season. Bliss.

-- 
Tout de bonbon,
Anne, Seriously, Traditionally Built Curvey Gumrat

On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:44:36 +0200, badriya  scrawled
in the dust...

>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
> wrote:
>
>>Linda Fox wrote:
>>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>>> wrote:
>>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>>
>>> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
>>> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
>>> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
>>> would you recommend?
>>> 
>>
>>Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
>>(different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
>>going/did you go?
>I've never been to Crete or Greece so if anyone wants a companion to
>go with them......

I went three times between 1978 and 1988. There were huge changes to the
place in that period but I dare say there is still enough that doesn't
resemble Magaluf.

D#2 and my new son in law are honeymooning near Chania at the moment - I
think I'd probably told her this was our favourite town but I expect it's
changed a lot.
-- 
Penny
There are unexpected holes in my ignorance.
umra Nicknames & Abbreviations http://www.umra.freeuk.com/nicks.html

In message , Penny 
 writes
>On Mon, 23 Jun 2008 22:44:36 +0200, badriya  scrawled
>in the dust...
>
>>On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
>> wrote:
>>
>>>Linda Fox wrote:
>>>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>>>
>D#2 and my new son in law are honeymooning

Congarats to them, Penny.

Sincerely Chris

-- 
Chris McMillan
http://www.chinavision.org.uk/
http://www.oneplusone.org.cn

Linda Fox wrote:
> On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 18:58:38 +0100, Marjorie
>  wrote:
> 
>> Linda Fox wrote:
>>> On 21 Jun 2008 23:05:15 GMT, rf10@cl.cam.ac.uk (Robin Fairbairns)
>>> wrote:
>>>> look, i didn't _ask_ to be born.
>>>>
>>> I think you'd have been rather unpopular with your mother if you'd
>>> refused. Anyway, you wouldn't have been able to come to Crete with me
>>> if you hadn't been born, and I'd have had to go with someone else. Who
>>> would you recommend?
>>>
>> Ooooh, we've been to Crete twice and are going again in September 
>> (different area each trip). We're very fond of it - whereabouts are you 
>> going/did you go?
> 
> First time to Hersonnisos - the town itself is a well-known clubby
> nightlife place, and as we arrived in the small hours and the bus
> suddenly slowed down to a crawl and everything was lit up like day
> with sozzled people wandering around and a lot of jangly music, we
> thought "oh no, this isn't what we want" but then it carried on
> through to the quieter part, and we were dropped off at our place and
> given the key to our studio. We were woken by cicadas a few hours
> later and looked out onto a little terrace, small palms and a very
> blue sea. That's the morning I always think of when they say just
> relax and think of somewhere lovely. The best part of it is the
> open-air museum of Cretan life, called Lichnostatis (sp?)
> 
> Two years later we went to the south coast, to Plakias. You can't go
> nowhere without doing winding roads and deep gorges, so it's beautiful
> but frightening. We invented the warning LOLAC when driving through
> villages, which stands for Little Old Lady Around Corner. 

Ah, I know her well. I have photo of her walking away from us with her 
shopping bag. Black knee-length dress, flat shoes, dark headscarf. She 
happened to by in Myrtos in that photo but we saw her all over the place.

We stayed in Plakias a few nights in last year's holiday - yes, a lovely 
place.
> 
> Both times we didn't want to leave, ever. But it's just possible we
> might never go back again what with qualms about carbon and the fact
> that Robin has had a DVT and a PE and it seems the only way really is
> to fly, unless you take a train all the way to Athens and then a ferry
> from Piraeus, and by then it will be time to go home again.
> 
> I fear for the economic future of places like Crete which are so
> dependent on tourism, as flying looks likely to become more and more
> of a problem because of fuel prices.

We were determined to go again this year, as we've visited the east and 
the central chunk, and not yet the west. But the flights have cost us 
over £100 extra this year (for 2), and the euro exchange rate will make 
this holiday quite a lot more expensive than the previous two. We wanted 
to fly from south-west England, so there was only one flight route that 
would  suit (unless we were prepared to travel mostly at night both 
ways) - and it's now run by Thos Cook :-(

AIUI, the cheap flight companies are not keen on doing the Crete routes 
because it's just that bit too far to make a return trip in a day at 
civilised times feasible, so they can't make money on it.

-- 
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje